McAuliffe says Clinton staying in, will win popular vote

[Ravi]

racist...

*blush*

 

[Care4all]

by politicians i realize you mean the state pubs who screwed their own citizens.

however, isn't hillary the politician the one that really broke the party's rules?

i mean dude do you really think it's fair to count hillary's votes when Barak wasn't even on the ballot in one state and didn't campaign in the other?

the popular vote without fl and mi gives Obama a 2.5% lead. from the source above.

now i agree that's not a walloping lead...never said it was

but the mathematics of the delegates make his win practically inevitable...which is why i found GunnyL's post questioning Obama's dedication to the party...a bit odd.

Now if Obama doesn't get the popular vote i'd support an argument against the him getting the nod...but that doesn't appear to be possible.

jsanders i think you do actually make an important point about the big states.

which is why choosing his running mate and concentrating on taking on Mcsame should be the priority now.

Barak WAS ON THE BALLOT in Florida Doe? YES he was on the ballot there and Hillary won, with pretty big margins and the barak side to not want to count these peoples votes is wrong and only done for his own political gain at the moment, of course he will want these same voters to vote for him in the General.....then he will WANT to count their votes.

In Michigan, Barak took his own name off the ballot because he knew he would lose it....I suppose, why else would he have taken his name off the ballot in Michigan and not taken it off in florida when he knew both states were not suppose to count? hmmmmmm.....

None of this was the voter's fault and IF YOU BELIEVE in a democratic vote of the people then you would NOT disenfranchise them....it is not their fault that the party leaders chose a wrong date to have the primary for them to vote....they SHOULD NOT be discounted so flimsily by the Obama team....

DAMNIT, the Dems are going to lose this election if the Obama team does not do something to satisfy the voters....

AND WHEN in the world did Political Parties start determining whether a citizen's vote for the presidential nominee can count or NOT COUNT? Where in our constitution does it give the political party the right to overrule the STATE GVT?

Why can the "party" choose when your primary is, and determine what single state is the most important and first state to have one...

this is such bullshit for the Obamaites to WANT to DISENFRANCHISE citizen's valid and legitimate votes JUST FOR THE SAKE of thier candidate winning...a SAD sad day in America and for the SUPPOSEDLY Democratic party imho!

care

 

[Gunny]

My apologizes to GunnyL.

while one might wonder why a loyal party member would be questioning the leading candidates dedication to what's best for the party on a message board.

or perhaps ponder if commenting that someone isn't a member of the party is really what's going to destroy the dims vs.

suggesting the leading candidate doesn't know what's best for the party.

but i don't wanna be considered a troll...

I did not say I was a loyal party member. I said the Democrat party was the only political party I ever belonged to. I have been registered independent since 1980.

I'm suggesting that not only does the leading candidate not know what's best for the party nor this country, I'm suggest the party doesn't know what's best for the party and hasn't since 1976. That would be the reason I no longer belong to it.

I'm also suggesting the party has disenfranchised Hillary with its hypocrisy. The rules damned-sure didn't matter in 2000 when the Democrats were screaming voters in FL had been disenfranchised. They wanted those votes to count no matter what.

Compare that to FL and MI primaries.

If I wouldn't support Jimmy Carter, why would I support someone to left of him?

But I'll make this simple for you. If it's McCain - Hillary, I have a choice and I'm looking real close and have absolutely NO qualms with voting for a Democrat.

If it's McCain - Obama, McCain gets my vote, period. I feel pretty safe in saying there are probably more than few independent/moderate votes available to Hillary that aren't available to Obama because there is nothing moderate about him.

But y'all have it your way.

 

[Jon]

If the trend in West Virginia continue, Clinton will once again regain the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan, of course, as one should.

 

[doeton]

"Barak WAS ON THE BALLOT in Florida Doe?"

if you'd actually read my quotes...where did the doeton deny he was on the ballot?

"YES he was on the ballot there and Hillary won, with pretty big margins and the barak side to not want to count these peoples votes is wrong and only done for his own political gain at the moment,"

hello! hillary pledged not to participate or campaign in either state...and then when she won suddenly claims foul on a pledge she agreed to.

and you want to call Obama an opportunist? ok.

"In Michigan, Barak took his own name off the ballot because he knew he would lose it....I suppose, why else would he have taken his name off the ballot in Michigan and not taken it off in florida when he knew both states were not suppose to count? hmmmmmm....."

it's called law. my understanding is Florida law prevented the removal. if you want to argue that please post a source...or better yet may be Ravir can proof it.

"none of this was the voter's fault and IF YOU BELIEVE in a democratic vote of the people then you would NOT disenfranchise them....it is not their fault that the party leaders chose a wrong date to have the primary for them to vote....they SHOULD NOT be discounted so flimsily by the Obama team....this is such bullshit for the Obamaites to WANT to DISENFRANCHISE citizen's valid and legitimate votes JUST FOR THE SAKE of thier candidate winning...a SAD sad day in America and for the SUPPOSEDLY Democratic party imho!""

please. how bout change your handle to care4some.

your solution is what? to count votes in an election when the voters where told the election doesn't count? where the campaigning was limited.

that's democracy?

wtg care4all. and so the voters who stayed home? the voters who wanted to vote barak in michigan? wtf? that's democracy for ya?

give me a break.

another primary. that would have been democracy. that's absurd to say to Obama supports want to disenfranchise. and frankly rude.

"DAMNIT, the Dems are going to lose this election if the Obama team does not do something to satisfy the voters...."

oh and putting forth a candidate who doesn't get the popular vote is going to what? Plus again Obama has been playing nice guy, you wanna see the swift boaters work on the clintons?

"AND WHEN in the world did Political Parties start determining whether a citizen's vote for the presidential nominee can count or NOT COUNT?"

earth to care...that's just plain silly.

"Where in our constitution does it give the political party the right to overrule the STATE GVT?why can the "party" choose when your primary is, and determine what single state is the most important and first state to have one..."

are you serious?

care obviously the parties can't dictate when a primary is held! hello! if could could...duh... the florida and michigan primaries would actually have been counted (since the they would not have been held later)!

what they can do is decide whether to count them towards their candidate. that's what parties do.

 

[Ravi]

No one was required to remove their name from the ballot.

When are you going to address the fact that Obama broke the rule by making a public appearance in Florida?

It's a little, no actually it's very, disingenuous to fault Hillary and give Obama a pass.

 

[Larkinn]

If what you say is true, then this means that all the people voting for Hillary, are actually voting AGAINST Obama....if they know she has no chance of winning, like in today's race in west virginia....and they come out and vote in record numbers anyway, then imo they are casting a vote AGAINST Barak Obama....they are making a statement it appears.

It is true. That doesn't mean people don't believe otherwise.

I personally do not believe for one nano second that Barak had this won months ago...HE STILL DOES NOT HAVE IT WON.....he does not have enough delegates to win the competition because HALF of the country has voted against him, and with Hillary or others.

Umm point proven. And yes, he does have it won. Explain for me the scenario where Hillary wins the election please.

If he won the election already as they said, he would have had enough votes to win it, BUT HE DOESN'T.

To say this has not been a close race or to say that Democrats overwhelmingly voted for Barak is just simply not true....

It has been a close race. Its not like Obama will win by a landslide, but you are politically naive if you think he won't win.

SO FAR, 16,700,000 have voted for Barak and 16,600,000 Democrats have voted for Hillary, if you count what Democratic voters have done in the primaries....

THAT IS NOT any where near close to an overwhelming win for Obama....THAT is the Democratic party being virtually split down the middle....in a TIE....yes a TIE, even with the media being sexists and against Hillary for months now, telling her to quit, that she should quit, limiting her money collecting power every time they d=said it which has to be over a THOUSAND times at this point, between all of the media....

Who said it was an overwhelming win? It is, however, a win and a definite one. No, its not a tie. And no, the media haven't been sexists. Hillary has been losing for a long time now.

In any General Election in any state right now, a RECOUNT would be mandatory because the difference is within 1% of the total votes.

Yeah, too bad that fails the honesty test since we aren't talking about a single state, we are talking about the combination of multiple states, many of which weren't close at all.

Not that I expect this in the Democratic Primary because it is NOT the popular vote that wins it, it is the delegate and superdelegate counts combined, reaching a 51% margin over the other guy/gal.....

Can you imagine how bad Obama would have looked today, if Hillary had withdrawn? She did him a HUGE FAVOR by staying in the race, that's for certain! Why? Because it would not look good at all that he loses in such a large, HUGE, manner with an opponent that is NOT even in the race....at least she saved him some face by staying in.....

I agree. I'm glad she didn't withdraw just yet. But shes lost. No question about it.

He's got a huge problem come November if he does not do something to tone down his racist calling supporters....it does nothing but alienate the people that supported Hillary because she was the stronger candidate,

Obviously she wasn't the stronger candidate. Shes lost by every measure you care to look at.

and he will not win this election, if he does not capture these voters, just as Hillary would not win if she did not get the black vote behind her again....both are huge shortfalls on either candidate's part and stupid McCain actually has a chance...a chance that no republican should have in this election, imo.

care

The ONLY way that Hillary can win is with superdelegates. This has been that way for months. If she pulls off that sort of a coup, the black vote will desert the democratic party.

 

[Larkinn]

Why WOULDN'T you count Florida and Michigan? The voters didn't break the rules, the politicians did. The votes still count.

No, actually the votes don't count. The DNC gets to decide that and they decided it before hand. There is no inherent right to vote in primaries, its decided by the party. They can choose whoever the hell they want to put up.

And tell me why exactly they should count since they didn't campaign in Florida, and in Michigan Obama wasn't even on the ballot?

What's really interesting is not the total popular vote, it's the popular vote in the states that will actually matter in the general election. Obama wins big in Republican states, yet it's supposed to be Hillary that the Republicans are switching over to vote for to help the Republicans.

Hillary wins big in the Democratic states. It speaks for itself.

Well we sure need a candidate who is doing amazing in California and NY. Because otherwise they might go Republican.

 

[Larkinn]

If the trend in West Virginia continue, Clinton will once again regain the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan, of course, as one should.

One state does not a trend make. And it won't continue. She will win Kentucky and lose Oregon.

HOW did Hillary break the rules? Because she wants to count the votes? There was never a rule that said she can't count em. The rule said the delegates don't get a voice.

She didn't break the rules, she WANTS to break the rules.

And, like it or not, Obama's lack of attention to making these votes count will bite him in the ass. The voters in these two swing states have been disenfranchised, and they won't take likely to it.

Only an idiot would blame Obama for that. Blame the DNC, the ones who set up those rules. Actually, who they should really blame, is state politicians who took a gamble with their votes, and lost.

Yes, I know they lost delegates in the Republican primaries as well. But the Republican race would not have changed had their votes counted, the Democratic race would have. If these states had counted all along, Hillary would have had a lot of the momentum Obama's enjoyed. A lot of his success came because of an early delegate lead, something SHE would have had if the voters in these states were not cheated out of their voice.

This is pure speculation. You have no idea how Obama would have fared if he had campaigned and been on the ballot.

 

[Larkinn]

Barak WAS ON THE BALLOT in Florida Doe? YES he was on the ballot there and Hillary won, with pretty big margins and the barak side to not want to count these peoples votes is wrong and only done for his own political gain at the moment, of course he will want these same voters to vote for him in the General.....then he will WANT to count their votes.

He doesn't want to count their votes because nobody was allowed to campaign there, and according to DNC rules their votes aren't counted . Might he change his mind if he had won? Possibly. Compare that to Clinton who supported taking away the delegates to FL and MI, until suddenly they became essential to her campaign, and now she supports seating those delegates.

In Michigan, Barak took his own name off the ballot because he knew he would lose it....I suppose, why else would he have taken his name off the ballot in Michigan and not taken it off in florida when he knew both states were not suppose to count? hmmmmmm.....

Bullshit. Clinton only got 54% of the vote even though she was running unopposed , and again there was no advertising allowed.

None of this was the voter's fault and IF YOU BELIEVE in a democratic vote of the people then you would NOT disenfranchise them....it is not their fault that the party leaders chose a wrong date to have the primary for them to vote....they SHOULD NOT be discounted so flimsily by the Obama team....

They voted in their leaders, they have to abide by their leaders decisions.

DAMNIT, the Dems are going to lose this election if the Obama team does not do something to satisfy the voters....

Evidence for this?

AND WHEN in the world did Political Parties start determining whether a citizen's vote for the presidential nominee can count or NOT COUNT? Where in our constitution does it give the political party the right to overrule the STATE GVT?

What? Presidential primaries are the party finding a nominee. Being a nominee has nothing to do with the state government, and the state government doesn't get to decide that. The party doesn't need to have elections at all, they can just ignore the voters and pick whoever.

Why can the "party" choose when your primary is, and determine what single state is the most important and first state to have one...

They are trying to CHANGE the fucked up primary system. That will never happen if they are forced to abide by states placing their primaries whenever they damn well please.

this is such bullshit for the Obamaites to WANT to DISENFRANCHISE citizen's valid and legitimate votes JUST FOR THE SAKE of thier candidate winning...a SAD sad day in America and for the SUPPOSEDLY Democratic party imho!

care

No, actually. They need to fix the primary system. Allowing FL and MI to have their votes sat, even though they broke the rules, will destroy the legitimacy of any rules the DNC wants to put in place in the future.

The DNC NEEDS to have its rules listened too, and it NEEDS to be consistent about them. Changing them after the fact doesn't do any good to anyone (except Hillary, and sorry but the DNC shouldn't base its decisions around what Hillary Clinton wants).

 

[doeton]

No one was required to remove their name from the ballot. When are you going to address the fact that Obama broke the rule by making a public appearance in Florida?It's a little, no actually it's very, disingenuous to fault Hillary and give Obama a pass.

what's disingenuous is suggesting that walking across the street to talk to reporters which i'll agree violated the rules of the pledge is equivalent to holding a major campaign rally but more importantly

CALLING FOR A COMPLETE DISREGARD OF THE PLEDGE.

the pledge itself was to not count or campaign in florida or michigan.

that's what they agreed to.

you want to say talking to reporters (it's fricking national campaign hello!)

is equivalent to welching on the whole pledge?

 

[Ravi]

what's disingenuous is suggesting that walking across the street to talk to reporters which i'll agree violated the rules of the pledge is equivalent to holding a major campaign rally but more importantly

CALLING FOR A COMPLETE DISREGARD OF THE PLEDGE.

the pledge itself was to not count or campaign in florida or michigan.

that's what they agreed to.

you want to say talking to reporters (it's fricking national campaign hello!)

is equivalent to welching on the whole pledge?

What campaign rally?

And yes, breaking a rule is breaking a rule.

 

[Ravi]

If she pulls off that sort of a coup, the black vote will desert the democratic party.

Would you blame them?

 

[Larkinn]

Would you blame them?

Yes and no. I don't think they would be right in thinking that the Democratic elite awarded Hillary the victory because they didn't want a black guy to win, but I could understand why they would think that.

 

[jillian]

Yes and no. I don't think they would be right in thinking that the Democratic elite awarded Hillary the victory because they didn't want a black guy to win, but I could understand why they would think that.

Do you think that not allowing them to think that should require us losing the election in November (and all that entails) if, in fact, Clinton is the better candidate to beat McCain?

Also, if, in fact, the super delegates are voting "the will of the democratic party", then why are super delegates from states where Hillary won by a landslide (e.g, Massachusetts) not voting the will of their States? Has anyone figured out numerically what the result would be if they did that?

I don't know the answer btw.

 

[doeton]

What campaign rally?

By Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 29, 2008; Page A08

Her campaign has been running a below-the-radar effort to capture Florida even though the state's delegates are not going to be seated at the Democratic convention this summer, punishment for the state's decision to move its primary to an earlier date than allowed by the DNC. Clinton (N.Y.) attended fundraisers in Florida on Sunday, received the endorsement Monday of Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) and was the beneficiary of mailings sent by union organizers into the state.

Clinton's victory rally is scheduled for 8 p.m. at a ballroom in Davie, Fla. Officials in the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) dismissed the maneuver as "too cute by half," and said they were glad that Clinton would be spending time in a state whose primary had already ended rather than campaigning in a state that will vote on Feb. 5, when Democrats in 22 states will go to the polls.

Privately, several Clinton supporters acknowledged that she had openly embraced the votes in Florida and in Michigan, another state that violated DNC rules, only after the first two contests, in Iowa and New Hampshire, were over. Campaigning in banned states any earlier would have been certain to infuriate voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, who jealously guard their early status.

Obama officials said they would welcome an additional, DNC-sanctioned caucus or primary in March or April and would compete in such a contest.

And yes, breaking a rule is breaking a rule.

ok...and jaywalking is the same as murder...

 

[Ravi]

Yes and no. I don't think they would be right in thinking that the Democratic elite awarded Hillary the victory because they didn't want a black guy to win, but I could understand why they would think that.

I can't disagree with that even though it makes it sound like we are throwing out the baby for the bathwater, or however that saying goes.

I think a large percentage of Dems are going to feel disenfranchised no matter what happens.

 

[doeton]

walking across the street to talk to reporters which i'll agree violated the rules of the pledge

try reading ravir

 

[Ravi]

By Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 29, 2008; Page A08

Her campaign has been running a below-the-radar effort to capture Florida even though the state's delegates are not going to be seated at the Democratic convention this summer, punishment for the state's decision to move its primary to an earlier date than allowed by the DNC. Clinton (N.Y.) attended fundraisers in Florida on Sunday, received the endorsement Monday of Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) and was the beneficiary of mailings sent by union organizers into the state.

Clinton's victory rally is scheduled for 8 p.m. at a ballroom in Davie, Fla. Officials in the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) dismissed the maneuver as "too cute by half," and said they were glad that Clinton would be spending time in a state whose primary had already ended rather than campaigning in a state that will vote on Feb. 5, when Democrats in 22 states will go to the polls.

Privately, several Clinton supporters acknowledged that she had openly embraced the votes in Florida and in Michigan, another state that violated DNC rules, only after the first two contests, in Iowa and New Hampshire, were over. Campaigning in banned states any earlier would have been certain to infuriate voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, who jealously guard their early status.

Obama officials said they would welcome an additional, DNC-sanctioned caucus or primary in March or April and would compete in such a contest.





ok...and jaywalking is the same as murder...

The primary was over. That wasn't considered breaking a rule.

I know you don't think Obama broke a big rule, but he did break a rule in Florida. And Hillary did not.

 

[doeton]

I think a large percentage of Dems are going to feel disenfranchised no matter what happens.

but in michigan florida that's because of their republican state leadership.