Ravi
Diamond Member
racist...
*blush*
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racist...
by politicians i realize you mean the state pubs who screwed their own citizens.
however, isn't hillary the politician the one that really broke the party's rules?
i mean dude do you really think it's fair to count hillary's votes when Barak wasn't even on the ballot in one state and didn't campaign in the other?
the popular vote without fl and mi gives Obama a 2.5% lead. from the source above.
now i agree that's not a walloping lead...never said it was
but the mathematics of the delegates make his win practically inevitable...which is why i found GunnyL's post questioning Obama's dedication to the party...a bit odd.
Now if Obama doesn't get the popular vote i'd support an argument against the him getting the nod...but that doesn't appear to be possible.
jsanders i think you do actually make an important point about the big states.
which is why choosing his running mate and concentrating on taking on Mcsame should be the priority now.
My apologizes to GunnyL.
while one might wonder why a loyal party member would be questioning the leading candidates dedication to what's best for the party on a message board.
or perhaps ponder if commenting that someone isn't a member of the party is really what's going to destroy the dims vs.
suggesting the leading candidate doesn't know what's best for the party.
but i don't wanna be considered a troll...
"Barak WAS ON THE BALLOT in Florida Doe?"
"YES he was on the ballot there and Hillary won, with pretty big margins and the barak side to not want to count these peoples votes is wrong and only done for his own political gain at the moment,"
"In Michigan, Barak took his own name off the ballot because he knew he would lose it....I suppose, why else would he have taken his name off the ballot in Michigan and not taken it off in florida when he knew both states were not suppose to count? hmmmmmm....."
"none of this was the voter's fault and IF YOU BELIEVE in a democratic vote of the people then you would NOT disenfranchise them....it is not their fault that the party leaders chose a wrong date to have the primary for them to vote....they SHOULD NOT be discounted so flimsily by the Obama team....this is such bullshit for the Obamaites to WANT to DISENFRANCHISE citizen's valid and legitimate votes JUST FOR THE SAKE of thier candidate winning...a SAD sad day in America and for the SUPPOSEDLY Democratic party imho!""
"DAMNIT, the Dems are going to lose this election if the Obama team does not do something to satisfy the voters...."
"AND WHEN in the world did Political Parties start determining whether a citizen's vote for the presidential nominee can count or NOT COUNT?"
"Where in our constitution does it give the political party the right to overrule the STATE GVT?why can the "party" choose when your primary is, and determine what single state is the most important and first state to have one..."
If what you say is true, then this means that all the people voting for Hillary, are actually voting AGAINST Obama....if they know she has no chance of winning, like in today's race in west virginia....and they come out and vote in record numbers anyway, then imo they are casting a vote AGAINST Barak Obama....they are making a statement it appears.
I personally do not believe for one nano second that Barak had this won months ago...HE STILL DOES NOT HAVE IT WON.....he does not have enough delegates to win the competition because HALF of the country has voted against him, and with Hillary or others.
If he won the election already as they said, he would have had enough votes to win it, BUT HE DOESN'T.
To say this has not been a close race or to say that Democrats overwhelmingly voted for Barak is just simply not true....
SO FAR, 16,700,000 have voted for Barak and 16,600,000 Democrats have voted for Hillary, if you count what Democratic voters have done in the primaries....
THAT IS NOT any where near close to an overwhelming win for Obama....THAT is the Democratic party being virtually split down the middle....in a TIE....yes a TIE, even with the media being sexists and against Hillary for months now, telling her to quit, that she should quit, limiting her money collecting power every time they d=said it which has to be over a THOUSAND times at this point, between all of the media....
In any General Election in any state right now, a RECOUNT would be mandatory because the difference is within 1% of the total votes.
Not that I expect this in the Democratic Primary because it is NOT the popular vote that wins it, it is the delegate and superdelegate counts combined, reaching a 51% margin over the other guy/gal.....
Can you imagine how bad Obama would have looked today, if Hillary had withdrawn? She did him a HUGE FAVOR by staying in the race, that's for certain! Why? Because it would not look good at all that he loses in such a large, HUGE, manner with an opponent that is NOT even in the race....at least she saved him some face by staying in.....
He's got a huge problem come November if he does not do something to tone down his racist calling supporters....it does nothing but alienate the people that supported Hillary because she was the stronger candidate,
and he will not win this election, if he does not capture these voters, just as Hillary would not win if she did not get the black vote behind her again....both are huge shortfalls on either candidate's part and stupid McCain actually has a chance...a chance that no republican should have in this election, imo.
care
Why WOULDN'T you count Florida and Michigan? The voters didn't break the rules, the politicians did. The votes still count.
What's really interesting is not the total popular vote, it's the popular vote in the states that will actually matter in the general election. Obama wins big in Republican states, yet it's supposed to be Hillary that the Republicans are switching over to vote for to help the Republicans.
Hillary wins big in the Democratic states. It speaks for itself.
If the trend in West Virginia continue, Clinton will once again regain the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan, of course, as one should.
HOW did Hillary break the rules? Because she wants to count the votes? There was never a rule that said she can't count em. The rule said the delegates don't get a voice.
And, like it or not, Obama's lack of attention to making these votes count will bite him in the ass. The voters in these two swing states have been disenfranchised, and they won't take likely to it.
Yes, I know they lost delegates in the Republican primaries as well. But the Republican race would not have changed had their votes counted, the Democratic race would have. If these states had counted all along, Hillary would have had a lot of the momentum Obama's enjoyed. A lot of his success came because of an early delegate lead, something SHE would have had if the voters in these states were not cheated out of their voice.
Barak WAS ON THE BALLOT in Florida Doe? YES he was on the ballot there and Hillary won, with pretty big margins and the barak side to not want to count these peoples votes is wrong and only done for his own political gain at the moment, of course he will want these same voters to vote for him in the General.....then he will WANT to count their votes.
In Michigan, Barak took his own name off the ballot because he knew he would lose it....I suppose, why else would he have taken his name off the ballot in Michigan and not taken it off in florida when he knew both states were not suppose to count? hmmmmmm.....
None of this was the voter's fault and IF YOU BELIEVE in a democratic vote of the people then you would NOT disenfranchise them....it is not their fault that the party leaders chose a wrong date to have the primary for them to vote....they SHOULD NOT be discounted so flimsily by the Obama team....
DAMNIT, the Dems are going to lose this election if the Obama team does not do something to satisfy the voters....
AND WHEN in the world did Political Parties start determining whether a citizen's vote for the presidential nominee can count or NOT COUNT? Where in our constitution does it give the political party the right to overrule the STATE GVT?
Why can the "party" choose when your primary is, and determine what single state is the most important and first state to have one...
this is such bullshit for the Obamaites to WANT to DISENFRANCHISE citizen's valid and legitimate votes JUST FOR THE SAKE of thier candidate winning...a SAD sad day in America and for the SUPPOSEDLY Democratic party imho!
care
No one was required to remove their name from the ballot. When are you going to address the fact that Obama broke the rule by making a public appearance in Florida?It's a little, no actually it's very, disingenuous to fault Hillary and give Obama a pass.
what's disingenuous is suggesting that walking across the street to talk to reporters which i'll agree violated the rules of the pledge is equivalent to holding a major campaign rally but more importantly
CALLING FOR A COMPLETE DISREGARD OF THE PLEDGE.
the pledge itself was to not count or campaign in florida or michigan.
that's what they agreed to.
you want to say talking to reporters (it's fricking national campaign hello!)
is equivalent to welching on the whole pledge?
If she pulls off that sort of a coup, the black vote will desert the democratic party.
Would you blame them?
Yes and no. I don't think they would be right in thinking that the Democratic elite awarded Hillary the victory because they didn't want a black guy to win, but I could understand why they would think that.
What campaign rally?
And yes, breaking a rule is breaking a rule.
Yes and no. I don't think they would be right in thinking that the Democratic elite awarded Hillary the victory because they didn't want a black guy to win, but I could understand why they would think that.
walking across the street to talk to reporters which i'll agree violated the rules of the pledge
By Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 29, 2008; Page A08
Her campaign has been running a below-the-radar effort to capture Florida even though the state's delegates are not going to be seated at the Democratic convention this summer, punishment for the state's decision to move its primary to an earlier date than allowed by the DNC. Clinton (N.Y.) attended fundraisers in Florida on Sunday, received the endorsement Monday of Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) and was the beneficiary of mailings sent by union organizers into the state.
Clinton's victory rally is scheduled for 8 p.m. at a ballroom in Davie, Fla. Officials in the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) dismissed the maneuver as "too cute by half," and said they were glad that Clinton would be spending time in a state whose primary had already ended rather than campaigning in a state that will vote on Feb. 5, when Democrats in 22 states will go to the polls.
Privately, several Clinton supporters acknowledged that she had openly embraced the votes in Florida and in Michigan, another state that violated DNC rules, only after the first two contests, in Iowa and New Hampshire, were over. Campaigning in banned states any earlier would have been certain to infuriate voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, who jealously guard their early status.
Obama officials said they would welcome an additional, DNC-sanctioned caucus or primary in March or April and would compete in such a contest.
ok...and jaywalking is the same as murder...
I think a large percentage of Dems are going to feel disenfranchised no matter what happens.