McAuliffe says Clinton staying in, will win popular vote

[doeton]

I know you don't think Obama broke a big rule, but he did break a rule in Florida. And Hillary did not.

so having the votes counted is what???

not a rule.

 

[Ravi]

but in michigan florida that's because of their republican state leadership.

And somehow that's going to make a difference when they pull the lever for McCain? Most of them blame the DNC, at least in Florida.

 

[Ravi]

so having the votes counted is what???

not a rule.

There was no rule stating the popular vote didn't matter.

 

[doeton]

And somehow that's going to make a difference when they pull the lever for McCain? Most of them blame the DNC, at least in Florida.

well ya know there's a lot of misunderstanding going around...no doubt.

 

[doeton]

There was no rule stating the popular vote didn't matter.

hey, if hillary wins the popular vote (not counting florida and michigan) you'll have something.

and i'll go back and agree with you that there will be a lot of voters considering themselves disenfranchised.

again what do you tell the voters in florida in michigan who didn't vote because they were told it wouldn't count?

the damage is done.

 

[Ravi]

In Florida, the Florida Dems told everyone to vote regardless. AND there was a compelling reason to vote in the election that had nothing to do with the primary.

 

[Larkinn]

Do you think that not allowing them to think that should require us losing the election in November (and all that entails) if, in fact, Clinton is the better candidate to beat McCain?

You do realize that without the black vote, theres not a snowballs chance in hell that Democrats will win the general, yes?

Also, if, in fact, the super delegates are voting "the will of the democratic party", then why are super delegates from states where Hillary won by a landslide (e.g, Massachusetts) not voting the will of their States? Has anyone figured out numerically what the result would be if they did that?

I don't know the answer btw.

Actually I know many are voting the will of their districts. Unsure how many are voting the will of their states.

And there is no requirement for them to do so. But given that Hillary loses under any measure under the current rules, popular vote, or pledged delegates, can you really blame them for crying foul play if she wins because of superdelegates?

Which, by the way, she won't.

 

[Larkinn]

I can't disagree with that even though it makes it sound like we are throwing out the baby for the bathwater, or however that saying goes.

I think a large percentage of Dems are going to feel disenfranchised no matter what happens.

Frankly its stupid for Hillary supporters to feel disenfranchised. She lost. Thats not disenfranchisement, thats losing.

I know you don't think Obama broke a big rule, but he did break a rule in Florida. And Hillary did not.

Alright, then what. What do you suppose we do to fix it? Do you think it created an unfair advantage for Obama? If so, how?

There was no rule stating the popular vote didn't matter.

There was a rule saying that the delegates wouldn't be counted, however.

In Florida, the Florida Dems told everyone to vote regardless. AND there was a compelling reason to vote in the election that had nothing to do with the primary.

And how many other people cared about the "compelling reason"? And no matter what Florida Dems said, I'm sure some people stayed home.

 

[Care4all]

what's disingenuous is suggesting that walking across the street to talk to reporters which i'll agree violated the rules of the pledge is equivalent to holding a major campaign rally but more importantly

CALLING FOR A COMPLETE DISREGARD OF THE PLEDGE.

the pledge itself was to not count or campaign in florida or michigan.

that's what they agreed to.

you want to say talking to reporters (it's fricking national campaign hello!)

is equivalent to welching on the whole pledge?

The pledge was not to campaign in florida and Michigan, there was NO PLEDGE whatsoever by the candidates that said they agreed to allow the florida and michigan voters to be disenfranchised and if YOU can show us this pledge that you say included the vote not to count, then please put this up via link?

I didn't know the candidates were made to do such, that would be political suicide for them to sign such a thing about disenfranchising the Florida and Michigan voters....can't even IMAGINE any of the candidates agreeing to such and signing an agreement to such.

okay...i googled it and....this is what the nominees had to sign....

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically
related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

 

[Ravi]

Frankly its stupid for Hillary supporters to feel disenfranchised. She lost. Thats not disenfranchisement, thats losing.



Alright, then what. What do you suppose we do to fix it? Do you think it created an unfair advantage for Obama? If so, how?



There was a rule saying that the delegates wouldn't be counted, however.



And how many other people cared about the "compelling reason"? And no matter what Florida Dems said, I'm sure some people stayed home.

We were discussing the popular vote, I believe.

The compelling reason was a property tax bill. I personally don't know anyone that didn't vote in the Florida primary.

Yes, I guess they'll just all have to feel stupid for thinking they were disenfranchised.

 

[Larkinn]

The compelling reason was a property tax bill. I personally don't know anyone that didn't vote in the Florida primary.

Yeah, but my guess is you have politically minded friends, considering you go onto the internet to talk about politics.

Yes, I guess they'll just all have to feel stupid for thinking they were disenfranchised.

Hillary Supporters? Yeah, they will. Florida and Michigan voters can feel disenfranchised, but that would be both Obama AND Hillary supporters, and they should be blaming their state government for that.

 

[jillian]

You do realize that without the black vote, theres not a snowballs chance in hell that Democrats will win the general, yes?

I know that's been the case. Absolutely.

Actually I know many are voting the will of their districts. Unsure how many are voting the will of their states.

I know. But how can you say they're "voting the will of the people" if the super delegates really aren't, in actuality, accountable.

And there is no requirement for them to do so. But given that Hillary loses under any measure under the current rules, popular vote, or pledged delegates, can you really blame them for crying foul play if she wins because of superdelegates?

What I think, in all honesty, is that Hillary was told to drop out even when it was apparent that she *could* win under certain scenarios.

Which, by the way, she won't.

I know.

 

[Ravi]

Yeah, but my guess is you have politically minded friends, considering you go onto the internet to talk about politics.



Hillary Supporters? Yeah, they will. Florida and Michigan voters can feel disenfranchised, but that would be both Obama AND Hillary supporters, and they should be blaming their state government for that.

lol! Real people never talk about politics with me.

Obama voters won't feel disenfranchised. By not counting the votes, only their votes count.

 

[Care4all]

Frankly its stupid for Hillary supporters to feel disenfranchised. She lost. Thats not disenfranchisement, thats losing.

How did she lose? Obama HAS NOT WON ENOUGH DELEGATES HIMSELF to be called and named the winner? He HAS NOT WON.....amazing, with all the hype from the Obamaites, but Obama does not have enough delegates to be called the winner yet.



Alright, then what. What do you suppose we do to fix it? Do you think it created an unfair advantage for Obama? If so, how?



There was a rule saying that the delegates wouldn't be counted, however.

The presidential candidates agreed to not campaign in states that moved their primary up, this is what their pledge was...they DID NOT PLEDGE to not have the votes in these states count, and the voters in these states came out in RECORD NUMBERS to vote because they were told that their vote would matter and count....

and now YOU want to disenfranchise these voters because of some power hungry democratic national committee members? That's worse than what was done to Florida in 2000....and Florida WILL NEVER forgive the DNC if this is what comes to pass....and if Howard Dean does not get their votes to count somehow there will be riots....what right does the DNC have to disenfranchise an American citizen from their vote btw....can you site an article or amendment in the constitution that gives a political party the right to do such?

And how many other people cared about the "compelling reason"? And no matter what Florida Dems said, I'm sure some people stayed home.

They came out in RECORD NUMBERS in both states....record numbers beating other states whose votes were not in jeopardy.

Sure some might have stayed home, but NOT because they thought that their vote didn't count, but for any reason for any voter to miss voting on election day...

I say this because there were notices all over the place and lots of media stories on both tv, and the newspapers and the candidates were allowed to have a campaign team within the state to rally their troops, it was just the candidates that could not participate in such, from my understanding of it...the Florida Democratic committee even had a whole section on their Site explaining why it was so important for the voters to come out and cast their vote for president?

Take yourself out of being an Obama supporter and even take yourself out of being a Democrat for a second and it is plain as day that these two state's voters, CITIZENS of the USA are going to be told that they don't get a vote that counts in who THEIR PRESIDENT OF THEIR COUNTRY is going to be, because a political Party said such,...and then tell me that this is somehow Constitutional....

Care

 

[Shogun]

 

[doeton]

The pledge was not to campaign in florida and Michigan, there was NO PLEDGE whatsoever by the candidates that said they agreed to allow the florida and michigan voters to be disenfranchised and if YOU can show us this pledge that you say included the vote not to count, then please put this up via link?

yep...sure thing bet that explains why obama and edwards pulled their name off the ballot.

yes, we won't campaign but expect the delegates to be seated.

what was that word ravir used...'disingenuous' that's it.

yep... having a campaign rally the night of the primary...that wasn't breaking the spirit of pledge at all.

disingenuous.

adjective
not straightforward or candid; giving a false appearance of frankness

 

[Jeepers]

Obama broke the rules in Florida. He made a public appearance before the election.

Um.... when did he appear in fla.... in my calculation it was hill campaigning in florida... Is this not just another lie coming from the desperate McClinton camp?

 

[Ravi]

yep...sure thing bet that explains why obama and edwards pulled their name off the ballot.

yes, we won't campaign but expect the delegates to be seated.

what was that word ravir used...'disingenuous' that's it.

yep... having a campaign rally the night of the primary...that wasn't breaking the spirit of pledge at all.

disingenuous.

adjective
not straightforward or candid; giving a false appearance of frankness

Right and for some reason the DNC is overlooking the fact that Obama broke the rules.

 

[Jeepers]

The primary was over. That wasn't considered breaking a rule.

I know you don't think Obama broke a big rule, but he did break a rule in Florida. And Hillary did not.

Looks like your smokin the good crack... (if there is such a thing).

Please post where Obama showed up in florida and hillary did not...


Truth is.... (although McClinton supporters have problem with the truth)

"The Clinton campaign claims that the senator from New York is abiding by the no-campaigning pledge because Sunday's two Florida events were technically closed to the public. But the stops were treated as major news events in a state where many Democrats have expressed anger over the absence of the party's presidential candidates during a period when Florida is overrun by Republican contenders.

The truth of the Clinton strategy was writ large in a memo from top strategist Howard Wolfson, who announced on the day of the campaign's dismal showing in South Carolina that, "Regardless of today's outcome, the race quickly shifts to Florida, where hundreds of thousands of Democrats will turn out to vote on Tuesday. Despite efforts by the Obama campaign to ignore Floridians, their voices will be heard loud and clear across the country, as the last state to vote before Super Tuesday on February 5."

"Efforts by the Obama campaign to ignore Floridians"?

Obama's just abiding by the pledge. Admittedly, it's a foolish pledge. None of the campaigns should have taken it, and they all should have agreed to drop it. But in the absence of such an agreement, Obama is not ignoring Floridians. He is remaining true to his word.

 

[Ravi]

Obama interviewed with the press after one of his Florida events.

That is the only rule that was broken in Florida.