Mandate Electric Cars to save the environment.

[KittenKoder]

Come on KK to mandate better MPG it's done all the time with CAFE standards but they are so weak that we had cars in the 70's that were getting 50 MPG in order to get that kind of MPG you have to drive one of those piece of shit Mercedes "Smart" cars.

Just because it's been done in the past doesn't mean it's right now.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

They tried to do variable displacement in I think an early 80s Cadilac......It was a horrible flop because it didn't work well at ALL. But it has been perfected so why isn't it available on ALL cars? You car can "Cruise" on hlaf the cylinders saving gas AND polution.

The plug ins have GREATLY improved as has the battery tech. These cars are improving in leaps and bounds but there is this odd hatred of plug ins.......I can't figure out WHY!!! Fully 80% of Americans can use a plug in for their EVERY DAY NEEDS.......That means NO FUEL in an IC engine. Plug it in at night and you recharge it using POWER PLANTS and even if they are COAL FIRED they are more efficient that ANY IC engine out there. Now if we were to get 10-20-100 nuke power plants on line there would be ZERO emissions. Even if we had WIND power which by the way INCREASES at NIGHT when most cars will charge......ZERO emissions. Why do you combat this idea?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So like going to the MOON we could do it 40 years ago but not NOW!!?? Makes no sense what-so-ever. The Fiat X-19 got upto 50 MPG. Were they trouble proned? Yeah they were but they were also fun as hell to drive. So let's see.....Fun to drive.....50MPG......And that was in the 70's. The fact is that in the 70's and 80's the Japanese saw and perfected the tech while the Big Three kept their heads buried in the sand and fucked us ALL OVER!

 

[KittenKoder]

So like going to the MOON we could do it 40 years ago but not NOW!!?? Makes no sense what-so-ever. The Fiat X-19 got upto 50 MPG. Were they trouble proned? Yeah they were but they were also fun as hell to drive. So let's see.....Fun to drive.....50MPG......And that was in the 70's. The fact is that in the 70's and 80's the Japanese saw and perfected the tech while the Big Three kept their heads buried in the sand and fucked us ALL OVER!

I have not mentioned it here, but I do agree that this "new" gas mileage is rather stupid, it has to do with a government regulation that oil companies pushed for. *hint hint*

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So like going to the MOON we could do it 40 years ago but not NOW!!?? Makes no sense what-so-ever. The Fiat X-19 got upto 50 MPG. Were they trouble proned? Yeah they were but they were also fun as hell to drive. So let's see.....Fun to drive.....50MPG......And that was in the 70's. The fact is that in the 70's and 80's the Japanese saw and perfected the tech while the Big Three kept their heads buried in the sand and fucked us ALL OVER!

I have not mentioned it here, but I do agree that this "new" gas mileage is rather stupid, it has to do with a government regulation that oil companies pushed for. *hint hint*

Elaborate please.

 

[KittenKoder]

So like going to the MOON we could do it 40 years ago but not NOW!!?? Makes no sense what-so-ever. The Fiat X-19 got upto 50 MPG. Were they trouble proned? Yeah they were but they were also fun as hell to drive. So let's see.....Fun to drive.....50MPG......And that was in the 70's. The fact is that in the 70's and 80's the Japanese saw and perfected the tech while the Big Three kept their heads buried in the sand and fucked us ALL OVER!

I have not mentioned it here, but I do agree that this "new" gas mileage is rather stupid, it has to do with a government regulation that oil companies pushed for. *hint hint*

Elaborate please.

By utilizing government regulations and laws the oil companies had managed to manipulate the manufacturing "standards" imposed by the government. The standards actually forced auto makers in the US to reduce the mileage in order to accommodate the changes which were rationalized as "safety precautions" or other such nonsense. One of the biggest decreases in efficiency was due to being forced to make them more environmentally safe, though in reality the changes did not come close (actually as we see quite the opposite). The problem people don't realize is that the government doesn't care about the people, it makes money for it's politicians much the same way organized crime does, bribes.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yeah.. ok. Who's gonna save us from numbnuts like YOU?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So tell me KK you never explained how HEAT is being used in IC engines. Are you aware of a technology that I'm not?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I have not mentioned it here, but I do agree that this "new" gas mileage is rather stupid, it has to do with a government regulation that oil companies pushed for. *hint hint*

Elaborate please.

By utilizing government regulations and laws the oil companies had managed to manipulate the manufacturing "standards" imposed by the government. The standards actually forced auto makers in the US to reduce the mileage in order to accommodate the changes which were rationalized as "safety precautions" or other such nonsense. One of the biggest decreases in efficiency was due to being forced to make them more environmentally safe, though in reality the changes did not come close (actually as we see quite the opposite). The problem people don't realize is that the government doesn't care about the people, it makes money for it's politicians much the same way organized crime does, bribes.

Well I know one saftey factor that dogged US cars was the need for sealed headlights. Supposedly "safer" but at least we got rid of that little scam.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I don't think you have shown how CAFE standards have had the opposite effect.

 

[DiveCon]

Kitty Kat have you even RESEARCHED plug in electrics? NOT THOSE HYBRID pieces of crap but PURE PLUG INS. Do yourself a favor and check the Tesla and the Pheonix SUT. Just LOOK at the capabilities with an open mind. Unless you HAVE to travel cross contry in your care a plug in would work for virtually 100% of your daily needs. JUST RESEARCH and tell me what the problem is with the Tesla S.

Electric Cars, Green Vehicle :: Phoenix Motorcars, Inc.

dang, too bad they dont make a 2 door

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Damn Dive now it has to be a TWO DOOR.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

O.K. I'll give you the BOOOSH thing although I worked in the auto industry at the time and Boosh sure as hell wasn't breaking any speed records to try to get rid of it.

You're like, only 15 or so, correct? It shows. You blamed Boooosh for something the Congress in the 80s did, and only Congress could ever UN do. You realize that?

Oh and let's see as far as HP and TORQUE go you should look up electric drag race....Watch PLUG IN ELECTRICS shred the IC competition.

Your video shows IC vehicles which are NOT drag race cars. They are street cars which weigh twice as much as the electric they're up against, driven by amateurs. Hardly an apples to apples comparison.

There's also NO word on how much money he's got tied up there, but I think it's safe to say you could buy any four of his competition easily, with the money spent on that one.

However, that little impractical car IS an impressive performer, in the quarter-mile. But can it run 300 miles at highway speed between charges with a 20 minute stop for fuel, like IC cars can? Can it provide comfort to the driver and passengers, with AC in summer and heat in winter? Can it defrost the glass? Can it burn headlights and running lights at night without losing significant range between charges? Does it have power steering? Any other creature features?

Also left out of the equation is all the COPPER in the motor. Do you have any idea how much pollution is created and energy is used by digging up and refining copper?

If the windings in the motor are aluminum, the carbon footprint is even worse yet.

The car still has a massive carbon footprint, it takes alot of energy and pollution to make the batteries, and the motor. You're just deluding yourself if you think wind turbines, solar panels, and plug-in electric vehicles are anything close to carbon neutral, much less carbon negative.

But of course, you're deluded anyway because you know these cannot compete in the marketplace without massive government subsidies we all pay for. That's why you're for them either being subsidized or mandated!

Because you know


They're not


practical or


a viable alternative.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be for the government mandates and subsidies.

Now, you never answered any of this, from my previous post:

What we SHOULD do if we are SERIOUS about reducing CO2 in the atmosphere is START by OUTLAWING its RECREATIONAL use first!

Uses such as Hollywood "smoke" special effects, wrestling events and rock concerts, football, basketball and hockey games, toys which use CO2 canisters such as paint ball guns, and so on. DRY ICE should be banned except for medical use. It's PURE CO2 which goes into the atmosphere as well!

We could ban the use of CO2 for such things as fire suppression and water treatment, where better methods have been developed but aren't mandated.

Why no outcry over those? It's millions of tons of unnecessary CO2 every year!

Because, THESE uses aren't the byproduct of EVIL fossil fuels combustion!

Ya see? There's apparently "good CO2" and "bad" CO2 just like with cholesterol? Except with CO2, it's ALL bad or it's ALL good, there's NO middle ground there. It's all the same CO2, no matter how you make it and release it into the atmosphere. We should FIRST stop manufacturing it and releasing it for purely entertainment reasons, and for reasons which are superseded, if we are REALLY sure it's causing global climate catastrophe.

Right?

THINK. CO2 is a convenient devil, so long as you don't look too closely and ask too many hard questions.

THIS is your FUCKING argument you keep refering to? So we should BAN copper and aluminum mining. So YOUR solution is to ban smoke machines!!!??? Talk about a drop in the fucking barrel.

So if we are going to ban it for "entertainment" purposes then EVERY TYPE of RECREATIONAL vehicle would be BANNED.....That's going to piss off a BUNCH of boat owners.



And it is NOT all the same CO2 because IC engines are the LEAST efficient way to burn fossil fuels for transportation.



I guess we will just have to say NO MORE houses because of copper wiring huh?

Your points are so GD ignorant that they really don't even DESERVE a response but since you've been bitching about it for so long I thought I HAD to to try to SHUT YOU THE FUCK UP about it.


Your entire post is worthless bullshit unless you advocate banning mining!!!

Your reading comprehension leaves alot to be desired, as I pointed out earlier. And you've shown that, by your reply which erects many strawman arguments:

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

If you go back and read carefully, you might have your one working brain cell kick in and say, "Oh, he never said anything I asserted."

And by the way, gonna have to require a credible source for this bullshit assertion you keep making:

IC engines are the LEAST efficient way to burn fossil fuels for transportation.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Would it surprise you to know that at one point there were more ELECTRIC cars in the US than fossil fuel cars?

Again, credible source needed.

 

[DiveCon]

Damn Dive now it has to be a TWO DOOR.

its what i WANT
no one makes an SUV 2 door anymore

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Face it, if electric cars were better then they would dominate the market without the government forcing it on the people, period. You can't rationalize these laws anymore, people are wising up.

This is why infantile morons like Cold Fusion get so upset. Because they are operating merely on emotion, not intellect. If they operated on some intellect, they not only wouldn't be getting upset, they would be cognizant of the actual issue.

 

[keee keee]

How are you going to charge all the electric cars you want everyone to use? The greenies won't let any new power plants coal, nukes be built? Wind won't cut it!!!! this green stuff is all bull shit!!!! Global warming is not happening!!!!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

There ya go and I could SPAM the hell out of this entire US NEWS MESSAGE BOARD with a shitload of FACTS about electric cars.

Your assertion was "at one time there were more electric cars than IC ones" or some such, and that's accurate so long as one doesn't consider that electric motors were invented long before the IC engine. I mean, yeah it's like saying "at one time there were more oil lamps than lightbulbs." No shit!

And providing credible links to your assertions isn't "spamming" it's called, "honest discourse." However, posting entire copyrighted articles or a large part of them will get you in trouble here real fast, not due to "spamming" but because, it's illegal.

Now...

The IC engine, like the light bulb, came along and blew away it's predecessor totally.

And still does, and still will unless you get the government to do what Al Gore wants, and ban IC engines.

Have you read his book, "Earth in the Balance?"

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The History of Electric Vehicles

Recent Years (1990 to 1998)

A link is all that's necessary. Again, pasting vast amounts of copyrighted material is a quick way to get in trouble here.

Still, you ignore my point.

 

[del]

The History of Electric Vehicles

The Early Years - Electric Cars (1890 - 1930)




More of This EV History Feature
• EV History - Early Years
• EV History - Middle Years
• EV History - Current Years



Related Car Resources
• Solar Powered Cars
• Alternative Energy
• History of Cars
• History of Streetcars
• History of Electricity
• Car Invention Trivia



Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain), Robert Anderson of Scotland invented the first crude electric carriage. A small-scale electric car was designed by Professor Stratingh of Groningen, Holland, and built by his assistant Christopher Becker in 1835. Practical and more successful electric road vehicles were invented by both American Thomas Davenport and Scotsmen Robert Davidson around 1842. Both inventors were the first to use non-rechargeable electric cells. Frenchmen Gaston Plante invented a better storage battery in 1865 and his fellow countrymen Camille Faure improved the storage battery in 1881. This improved-capacity storage battery paved the way for electric vehicles to flourish.
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France and Great Britain were the first nations to support the widespread development of electric vehicles in the late 1800s. In 1899, a Belgian built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for land speed - 68 mph - designed by Camille Jénatzy.

It was not until 1895 that Americans began to devote attention to electric vehicles after an electric tricycle was built by A. L. Ryker and William Morrison built a six-passenger wagon both in 1891. Many innovations followed and interest in motor vehicles increased greatly in the late 1890s and early 1900s. In 1897, the first commercial application was established as a fleet of New York City taxis built by the Electric Carriage and Wagon Company of Philadelphia.

The early electric vehicles, such as the 1902 Wood's Phaeton (top image), were little more than electrified horseless carriages and surreys. The Phaeton had a range of 18 miles, a top speed of 14 mph and cost $2,000. Later in 1916, Woods invented a hybrid car that had both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor.

By the turn of the century, America was prosperous and cars, now available in steam, electric, or gasoline versions, were becoming more popular. The years 1899 and 1900 were the high point of electric cars in America, as they outsold all other types of cars. Electric vehicles had many advantages over their competitors in the early 1900s. They did not have the vibration, smell, and noise associated with gasoline cars. Changing gears on gasoline cars was the most difficult part of driving, while electric vehicles did not require gear changes. While steam-powered cars also had no gear shifting, they suffered from long start-up times of up to 45 minutes on cold mornings. The steam cars had less range before needing water than an electric's range on a single charge. The only good roads of the period were in town, causing most travel to be local commuting, a perfect situation for electric vehicles, since their range was limited. The electric vehicle was the preferred choice of many because it did not require the manual effort to start, as with the hand crank on gasoline vehicles, and there was no wrestling with a gear shifter.

While basic electric cars cost under $1,000, most early electric vehicles were ornate, massive carriages designed for the upper class. They had fancy interiors, with expensive materials, and averaged $3,000 by 1910. Electric vehicles enjoyed success into the 1920s with production peaking in 1912.

The decline of the electric vehicle was brought about by several major developments:

By the 1920s, America had a better system of roads that now connected cities, bringing with it the need for longer-range vehicles.
The discovery of Texas crude oil reduced the price of gasoline so that it was affordable to the average consumer.
The invention of the electric starter by Charles Kettering in 1912 eliminated the need for the hand crank.
The initiation of mass production of internal combustion engine vehicles by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely available and affordable in the $500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the price of the less efficiently produced electric vehicles continued to rise. In 1912, an electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a gasoline car sold for $650.
Next page > History of Electric Cars - The Middle Years (1930 - 1990



There ya go and I could SPAM the hell out of this entire US NEWS MESSAGE BOARD with a shitload of FACTS about electric cars.

regardless of the merits of electric cars, that would be a really bad idea. i'd also appreciate it if you'd read and adhere to board rules for copyrighted material. go back and edit your posts appropriately or they will be deleted.
thanks
del