Let's acknowledge the indisputable sad truth on this Independence Day

[Slade3200]

What does it say that about how radicalized and unhinged the left side of the political spectrum has become that they now consider those of us who believe in liberty, a small, limited government, and the rule of law just like these revered men, to be "extremists"?

True constitutional conservatives (the Tea Party, the Constitution Party, etc.) simply want the U.S. Constitution upheld. Nothing less. Nothing more.

You gotta get out of your bubble man. Users on this board do not represent normal Americans and neither do people in the media. Go out in your community and interact with real people. Our nation is doing just fine.

You gotta get out of your bubble man. Users on this board do not represent normal Americans and neither do people in the media.

P@triot is living in a bubble?!....I think not!

Though, I don't see the problems we are facing
as liberal, conservative, Democrat or Republican.

The blame first lies with the complacency
and ignorance of the people, which created
a generation of enablers and a government
which has grown corrupt, unmanageable
and been allowed to stray from what and how it should govern...

all which has contributed to the upcoming generation
who will be the future leadership and those yet to come.

This doesn't have to do with parties, it has to do with people.
Ideology, passions, perversions, greed and priorities

A government that has been governing passions
and ideology by perverting the Constitution
through blatant reinterpretations which have clearly
weakened the present and will only further decay the future.

A government which has governed by greed, unchallenged,
forsaking the priorities of our country and the people!

You say members here are not normal Americans
Well, abnormal is the new normal, sad to say

Go out in your community and interact with real people. Our nation is doing just fine.

You and millions like you are living in a bubble darling!
Our Nation is NOT doing fine and nothing about it is normal!

Thats a pretty sad perspective that you have and while much of what you say exists it is only a small part of a much bigger picture. Our country has been evolving since its inception... We are constantly fixing things and dealing with new problems. We created slaves and the eradicated them. We didn't give women equal rights and then we fix that... From the days of the wild west to passing civil rights in the 60's... We have just recently accepted the rights of LGBT individuals and are starting to treat them like humans... And during all this time we have put a man on the moon, built the most powerful army in the world, stood as a pillar for opportunity and fairness, created the largest technological advancement in human history with the computer, internet, medical advancements... we provide aid to those who suffer around the world... I can go on all day...

You have to be able to recognize and appreciate these amazing accomplishments that our nation has achieved and the hard work that millions of people do every day to further the greatness of our country.

We have our problems as well. You pointed some of them out. Corruption from those in power, a culture of consumers vs producers, a lack of discipline and respect in our civil discourse, poverty, crime and violence etc etc etc. There are plenty of things that need to be fixed and our ability to do so through the voice of our collective representatives is what is beautiful about America... Yes we can do better, we must do better, as long as we strive to do better we are doing exactly what we are supposed to do... Thats what makes us great...

Now please help me get off this soapbox, i don't want to twist my ankle.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Liberals want a totalitarian state wherein the masses are virtual slaves to the system and an elite oligarchy rules them.

Sad, but I think you really believe that crazy crap. You need a mental health intervention.

You actively support the Hate spewed by the left daily. You defend it and support it. You are a piece of Human garbage. As are all the lefties that support this.

Yall are so full of shit. The majority of "Liberals" support personal freedom. They support standing up for the poor and oppressed. They support regulating big business so they can't abuse the common folk and they support taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class.
Sure there is a sliver that want a more socialistic society... Just like there is a fraction on the right that are bigoted nationalist that want an all white nation... Stop pushing everybody into the same room as the "extremists". Try acknowledging reality. I get called a Libtard left every day on this board. I believe in small government and personal freedom... don't malfunction, its the truth

What personal freedoms does the left support? They sure don't support getting your own insurance from the free market. They don't support personal freedom in not participating in a gay marriage. They don't support going into the work force and making what you're worth without a minimum wage that prices you out of the job market.

Standing up for the poor and the middle class is fine. Demanding someone else pay for them other than you is not.

How are businesses abusing people? You're worth what you're worth. A government mandated wage doesn't make your skills improve to that level. It keeps you out of the work force.

Do the poor and middle class not live here? Why should all of the money required to run this nation rich, poor and middle class all enjoy be put on one group of earners? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Not everything that is considered law has to come from congress.

Uh....yes it does. That is just a fact.

What of state and county laws? Last time I checked Congress didn't outlaw fast food and billboards in the city of Carmel... And they didn't legalize pot in Colorado.

I would like to get back to that and not rely on the feds for so many laws they shouldn't be passing. Do what you want to do on the local level. It's the easiest place to make changes.

 

[Slade3200]

Your think people have lost all desire to properly control government? Donald Trump just got elected president, I can't think of a bigger fuck you to government than that. I will say that we have done a pretty piss poor job with our elected leaders

You do make a great point there Slade3200. Electing Donald Trump was a giant "fuck you" to government and the establishment.

But that being said - if you ever watch "Waters World" on Fox, you'd be hard pressed to deny that the citizenry is astoundingly ignorant and uninterested in controlling government. Literally 9 out of every 10 people he asks cannot tell you who fought in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War. And don't even think about asking them questions regarding the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution.

Waters world and other "street interviews" are made for entertainment. The people are selected and edited in a way to make them look stupid. There is a reason why the "Real Housewives" and Kardashians are so popular. "We" like to watch stupid people be stupid. The majority of the people that I associate with are capable of having very intelligent conversations. People of every type of political ideology, ethnicity and religion. I know a few nutty characters and a few airheads, but for the most part people, and our nation, are doing just fine.

Then do your own.

It is not the street interviewers that have convinced me of the massive number of voters utterly ignoring the government but thinking they know enough to cast an informed vote. It is my daily interactions with people all over the nation. The vast majority of them do not have a single clue as to what is going on. I polled the people I worked with once to see if they could name the three branches of government. All of them very intelligent people but almost half could not do so.

The man on the street interviews are not of airheads or idiots - they are willfully ignorant of a system that has worked so well that they have not had to pay attention for decades.

Knowing what day the Revolutionary war ended isn't that important. I'm sure many people don't know much about our founders or the constitution or all our laws or how our government works. Maybe a shoemaker just knows how to make shoes, and the farmer only knows how to tend his crops, and the mechanic knows how to rebuild a carburetor with his eyes closed. Thats just fine. Everybody doesn't have to know everything. This is why we are a Republic and thats why we have an electoral college and elected representatives who's skill and job is to know civics and history and the law and represent the will of the people who voted for them.

The scary thing is, I don't know if our current president knows any more than those people on Waters World.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

What does it say that about how radicalized and unhinged the left side of the political spectrum has become that they now consider those of us who believe in liberty, a small, limited government, and the rule of law just like these revered men, to be "extremists"?

True constitutional conservatives (the Tea Party, the Constitution Party, etc.) simply want the U.S. Constitution upheld. Nothing less. Nothing more.

You gotta get out of your bubble man. Users on this board do not represent normal Americans and neither do people in the media. Go out in your community and interact with real people. Our nation is doing just fine.

You gotta get out of your bubble man. Users on this board do not represent normal Americans and neither do people in the media.

P@triot is living in a bubble?!....I think not!

Though, I don't see the problems we are facing
as liberal, conservative, Democrat or Republican.

The blame first lies with the complacency
and ignorance of the people, which created
a generation of enablers and a government
which has grown corrupt, unmanageable
and been allowed to stray from what and how it should govern...

all which has contributed to the upcoming generation
who will be the future leadership and those yet to come.

This doesn't have to do with parties, it has to do with people.
Ideology, passions, perversions, greed and priorities

A government that has been governing passions
and ideology by perverting the Constitution
through blatant reinterpretations which have clearly
weakened the present and will only further decay the future.

A government which has governed by greed, unchallenged,
forsaking the priorities of our country and the people!

You say members here are not normal Americans
Well, abnormal is the new normal, sad to say

Go out in your community and interact with real people. Our nation is doing just fine.

You and millions like you are living in a bubble darling!
Our Nation is NOT doing fine and nothing about it is normal!

Thats a pretty sad perspective that you have and while much of what you say exists it is only a small part of a much bigger picture. Our country has been evolving since its inception... We are constantly fixing things and dealing with new problems. We created slaves and the eradicated them. We didn't give women equal rights and then we fix that... From the days of the wild west to passing civil rights in the 60's... We have just recently accepted the rights of LGBT individuals and are starting to treat them like humans... And during all this time we have put a man on the moon, built the most powerful army in the world, stood as a pillar for opportunity and fairness, created the largest technological advancement in human history with the computer, internet, medical advancements... we provide aid to those who suffer around the world... I can go on all day...

You have to be able to recognize and appreciate these amazing accomplishments that our nation has achieved and the hard work that millions of people do every day to further the greatness of our country.

We have our problems as well. You pointed some of them out. Corruption from those in power, a culture of consumers vs producers, a lack of discipline and respect in our civil discourse, poverty, crime and violence etc etc etc. There are plenty of things that need to be fixed and our ability to do so through the voice of our collective representatives is what is beautiful about America... Yes we can do better, we must do better, as long as we strive to do better we are doing exactly what we are supposed to do... Thats what makes us great...

Now please help me get off this soapbox, i don't want to twist my ankle.

I agreed with your post but with one question. In order to keep advancing as we have in the past do we need more government today or less to accomplish that?

 

[P@triot]

Not everything that is considered law has to come from congress.

Uh....yes it does. That is just a fact.

What of state and county laws? Last time I checked Congress didn't outlaw fast food and billboards in the city of Carmel... And they didn't legalize pot in Colorado.

Well no kidding. We're talking about the federal government. Of course state legislatures make state laws.

 

[P@triot]

EO's are not the same as legislation that is written by congress but they are a power given to our executive and they are treated as law unless the court deems them unconstitutional.

That is simply 100% false. By law - an Executive Order (or Presidential Memorandum) may only apply to the Executive branch of the federal government and nothing else. You're completely clueless about the U.S. Constitution. Just because Barack Insane Obama attempted to serve as a dictator and leverage Executive Orders outside of their legal intent does not change their actual legal intent.

The U.S. President may not create, alter, or abolish law. Only Congress can do that. Period. End of story. You are dead wrong on this issue.

From YOUR link:

The Emancipation Proclamation, or Proclamation 95, was a presidential proclamation and executive order issued by President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863. It changed the federal legal status of more than 3 million enslaved people in the designated areas of the South from slave to free. As soon as a slave escaped the control of the Confederate government, by running away or through advances of federal troops, the slave became legally free. Eventually it reached and liberated all of the designated slaves. It did not cover slaves in Union areas that were freed by state action (or by the 13th amendment in December, 1865). It was issued as a war measure during the American Civil War, directed to all of the areas in rebellion and all segments of the executive branch (including the Army and Navy) of the United States.[2]

Yeah...and there were a lot more than just 3 million slaves. It wasn't law - it was simply a wartime measure (and a dishonest one at that).

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Your think people have lost all desire to properly control government? Donald Trump just got elected president, I can't think of a bigger fuck you to government than that. I will say that we have done a pretty piss poor job with our elected leaders

You do make a great point there Slade3200. Electing Donald Trump was a giant "fuck you" to government and the establishment.

But that being said - if you ever watch "Waters World" on Fox, you'd be hard pressed to deny that the citizenry is astoundingly ignorant and uninterested in controlling government. Literally 9 out of every 10 people he asks cannot tell you who fought in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War. And don't even think about asking them questions regarding the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution.

Waters world and other "street interviews" are made for entertainment. The people are selected and edited in a way to make them look stupid. There is a reason why the "Real Housewives" and Kardashians are so popular. "We" like to watch stupid people be stupid. The majority of the people that I associate with are capable of having very intelligent conversations. People of every type of political ideology, ethnicity and religion. I know a few nutty characters and a few airheads, but for the most part people, and our nation, are doing just fine.

Then do your own.

It is not the street interviewers that have convinced me of the massive number of voters utterly ignoring the government but thinking they know enough to cast an informed vote. It is my daily interactions with people all over the nation. The vast majority of them do not have a single clue as to what is going on. I polled the people I worked with once to see if they could name the three branches of government. All of them very intelligent people but almost half could not do so.

The man on the street interviews are not of airheads or idiots - they are willfully ignorant of a system that has worked so well that they have not had to pay attention for decades.

Knowing what day the Revolutionary war ended isn't that important. I'm sure many people don't know much about our founders or the constitution or all our laws or how our government works. Maybe a shoemaker just knows how to make shoes, and the farmer only knows how to tend his crops, and the mechanic knows how to rebuild a carburetor with his eyes closed. Thats just fine. Everybody doesn't have to know everything. This is why we are a Republic and thats why we have an electoral college and elected representatives who's skill and job is to know civics and history and the law and represent the will of the people who voted for them.

The scary thing is, I don't know if our current president knows any more than those people on Waters World.

You don't need to be an expert on everything but isn't it a requirement that people should know the basics? Why are we taking the basics of how and why this country was founded out of the education system. Even a carburetor repairman should know the basics of how thee country works. It's not a good idea to just turn this over to other people in a republic.

 

[Slade3200]

Liberals want a totalitarian state wherein the masses are virtual slaves to the system and an elite oligarchy rules them.

Sad, but I think you really believe that crazy crap. You need a mental health intervention.

You actively support the Hate spewed by the left daily. You defend it and support it. You are a piece of Human garbage. As are all the lefties that support this.

Yall are so full of shit. The majority of "Liberals" support personal freedom. They support standing up for the poor and oppressed. They support regulating big business so they can't abuse the common folk and they support taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class.
Sure there is a sliver that want a more socialistic society... Just like there is a fraction on the right that are bigoted nationalist that want an all white nation... Stop pushing everybody into the same room as the "extremists". Try acknowledging reality. I get called a Libtard left every day on this board. I believe in small government and personal freedom... don't malfunction, its the truth

What personal freedoms does the left support? They sure don't support getting your own insurance from the free market. They don't support personal freedom in not participating in a gay marriage. They don't support going into the work force and making what you're worth without a minimum wage that prices you out of the job market.

Standing up for the poor and the middle class is fine. Demanding someone else pay for them other than you is not.

How are businesses abusing people? You're worth what you're worth. A government mandated wage doesn't make your skills improve to that level. It keeps you out of the work force.

Do the poor and middle class not live here? Why should all of the money required to run this nation rich, poor and middle class all enjoy be put on one group of earners? That doesn't make sense.

Well they do support the right for a gay couple to get married and have the same rights as a heterosexual couple. They support the rights of consumers to be informed by those who handle their food, medicine, money and investments by creating regulations and disclosures... They do what they can to help minorities, women, and immigrants who are statistically underpaid... they support opportunity for our children through education and after school programs... They support our right to breath clean air and drink clean water by trying to keep big companies from dumping poison... Do I need to keep going?

You make fine points, I'm not saying that everything the left does is correct. They go overboard with many things. I wish Liberals and Conservatives could respect each other and see the value that each brings to the table instead of painting the other side as evil. The more people who can see things this way the better off we all would be

 

[Slade3200]

What does it say that about how radicalized and unhinged the left side of the political spectrum has become that they now consider those of us who believe in liberty, a small, limited government, and the rule of law just like these revered men, to be "extremists"?

True constitutional conservatives (the Tea Party, the Constitution Party, etc.) simply want the U.S. Constitution upheld. Nothing less. Nothing more.

You gotta get out of your bubble man. Users on this board do not represent normal Americans and neither do people in the media. Go out in your community and interact with real people. Our nation is doing just fine.

You gotta get out of your bubble man. Users on this board do not represent normal Americans and neither do people in the media.

P@triot is living in a bubble?!....I think not!

Though, I don't see the problems we are facing
as liberal, conservative, Democrat or Republican.

The blame first lies with the complacency
and ignorance of the people, which created
a generation of enablers and a government
which has grown corrupt, unmanageable
and been allowed to stray from what and how it should govern...

all which has contributed to the upcoming generation
who will be the future leadership and those yet to come.

This doesn't have to do with parties, it has to do with people.
Ideology, passions, perversions, greed and priorities

A government that has been governing passions
and ideology by perverting the Constitution
through blatant reinterpretations which have clearly
weakened the present and will only further decay the future.

A government which has governed by greed, unchallenged,
forsaking the priorities of our country and the people!

You say members here are not normal Americans
Well, abnormal is the new normal, sad to say

Go out in your community and interact with real people. Our nation is doing just fine.

You and millions like you are living in a bubble darling!
Our Nation is NOT doing fine and nothing about it is normal!

Thats a pretty sad perspective that you have and while much of what you say exists it is only a small part of a much bigger picture. Our country has been evolving since its inception... We are constantly fixing things and dealing with new problems. We created slaves and the eradicated them. We didn't give women equal rights and then we fix that... From the days of the wild west to passing civil rights in the 60's... We have just recently accepted the rights of LGBT individuals and are starting to treat them like humans... And during all this time we have put a man on the moon, built the most powerful army in the world, stood as a pillar for opportunity and fairness, created the largest technological advancement in human history with the computer, internet, medical advancements... we provide aid to those who suffer around the world... I can go on all day...

You have to be able to recognize and appreciate these amazing accomplishments that our nation has achieved and the hard work that millions of people do every day to further the greatness of our country.

We have our problems as well. You pointed some of them out. Corruption from those in power, a culture of consumers vs producers, a lack of discipline and respect in our civil discourse, poverty, crime and violence etc etc etc. There are plenty of things that need to be fixed and our ability to do so through the voice of our collective representatives is what is beautiful about America... Yes we can do better, we must do better, as long as we strive to do better we are doing exactly what we are supposed to do... Thats what makes us great...

Now please help me get off this soapbox, i don't want to twist my ankle.

I agreed with your post but with one question. In order to keep advancing as we have in the past do we need more government today or less to accomplish that?

For the most part I am going to support less government over more government... States rights over a large federal government. There are some key issues, especially those that apply to human rights and the environment where a blanket law is the better way to go.

 

[Slade3200]

Your think people have lost all desire to properly control government? Donald Trump just got elected president, I can't think of a bigger fuck you to government than that. I will say that we have done a pretty piss poor job with our elected leaders

You do make a great point there Slade3200. Electing Donald Trump was a giant "fuck you" to government and the establishment.

But that being said - if you ever watch "Waters World" on Fox, you'd be hard pressed to deny that the citizenry is astoundingly ignorant and uninterested in controlling government. Literally 9 out of every 10 people he asks cannot tell you who fought in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War. And don't even think about asking them questions regarding the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution.

Waters world and other "street interviews" are made for entertainment. The people are selected and edited in a way to make them look stupid. There is a reason why the "Real Housewives" and Kardashians are so popular. "We" like to watch stupid people be stupid. The majority of the people that I associate with are capable of having very intelligent conversations. People of every type of political ideology, ethnicity and religion. I know a few nutty characters and a few airheads, but for the most part people, and our nation, are doing just fine.

Then do your own.

It is not the street interviewers that have convinced me of the massive number of voters utterly ignoring the government but thinking they know enough to cast an informed vote. It is my daily interactions with people all over the nation. The vast majority of them do not have a single clue as to what is going on. I polled the people I worked with once to see if they could name the three branches of government. All of them very intelligent people but almost half could not do so.

The man on the street interviews are not of airheads or idiots - they are willfully ignorant of a system that has worked so well that they have not had to pay attention for decades.

Knowing what day the Revolutionary war ended isn't that important. I'm sure many people don't know much about our founders or the constitution or all our laws or how our government works. Maybe a shoemaker just knows how to make shoes, and the farmer only knows how to tend his crops, and the mechanic knows how to rebuild a carburetor with his eyes closed. Thats just fine. Everybody doesn't have to know everything. This is why we are a Republic and thats why we have an electoral college and elected representatives who's skill and job is to know civics and history and the law and represent the will of the people who voted for them.

The scary thing is, I don't know if our current president knows any more than those people on Waters World.

You don't need to be an expert on everything but isn't it a requirement that people should know the basics? Why are we taking the basics of how and why this country was founded out of the education system. Even a carburetor repairman should know the basics of how thee country works. It's not a good idea to just turn this over to other people in a republic.

I totally agree... I think our education system needs a good overhaul. Don't get me started on that one

 

[P@triot]

I totally agree... I think our education system needs a good overhaul. Don't get me started on that one

But that overhaul starts with closing the Department of Education and getting the federal government out of education. States and local municipalities can handle education for their own communities.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Liberals want a totalitarian state wherein the masses are virtual slaves to the system and an elite oligarchy rules them.

Sad, but I think you really believe that crazy crap. You need a mental health intervention.

You actively support the Hate spewed by the left daily. You defend it and support it. You are a piece of Human garbage. As are all the lefties that support this.

Yall are so full of shit. The majority of "Liberals" support personal freedom. They support standing up for the poor and oppressed. They support regulating big business so they can't abuse the common folk and they support taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class.
Sure there is a sliver that want a more socialistic society... Just like there is a fraction on the right that are bigoted nationalist that want an all white nation... Stop pushing everybody into the same room as the "extremists". Try acknowledging reality. I get called a Libtard left every day on this board. I believe in small government and personal freedom... don't malfunction, its the truth

What personal freedoms does the left support? They sure don't support getting your own insurance from the free market. They don't support personal freedom in not participating in a gay marriage. They don't support going into the work force and making what you're worth without a minimum wage that prices you out of the job market.

Standing up for the poor and the middle class is fine. Demanding someone else pay for them other than you is not.

How are businesses abusing people? You're worth what you're worth. A government mandated wage doesn't make your skills improve to that level. It keeps you out of the work force.

Do the poor and middle class not live here? Why should all of the money required to run this nation rich, poor and middle class all enjoy be put on one group of earners? That doesn't make sense.

Well they do support the right for a gay couple to get married and have the same rights and a heterosexual couple. They support the rights of consumers to be informed by those who handle their food, medicine, money and investments by creating regulations and disclosures... They do what they can to help minorities, women, and immigrants who are statistically underpaid... they support opportunity for our children through education and after school programs... They support our right to breath clean air and drink clean water by trying to keep big companies from dumping poison... Do I need to keep going?

You make fine points, I'm not saying that everything the left does is correct. They go overboard with many things. I wish Liberals and Conservatives could respect each other and see the value that each brings to the table instead of painting the other side as evil. The more people who can see things this way the better off we all would be

These regulations come from the left though. That's my problem. I could respect a left winger that wasn't just coming up with goofy things they want the government to regulate.

Gay people can be married, it's not a real marriage but for government paperwork I suppose we can call it that. They don't get the right to sue someone for not baking them a cake. Hetero couples can't do that if a cake maker won't cooperate with them. They go somewhere else. Gays need to do the same.

Sure you have a right to be informed. Isn't that something a food provider, medicine provider or investment company want to do to keep you as a customer? Is the government really necessary to tell you not to eat 20 cheeseburgers a day from McDonalds? Is a label on a toaster telling you not to use it in the bathtub really necessary?

The level of these regulations is just ridiculous. There's no way a small government should even be involved in 98% of the laws we now have. I may be able to deal with a lefty, if they aren't wanting every detail of our lives regulated or dictated.

 

[Slade3200]

I totally agree... I think our education system needs a good overhaul. Don't get me started on that one

But that overhaul starts with closing the Department of Education and getting the federal government out of education. States and local municipalities can handle education for their own communities.

That's one approach. Perhaps they try that with a pool of schools in each state to see if it helps or hurts. That should give some good insight

 

[Slade3200]

Sad, but I think you really believe that crazy crap. You need a mental health intervention.

You actively support the Hate spewed by the left daily. You defend it and support it. You are a piece of Human garbage. As are all the lefties that support this.

Yall are so full of shit. The majority of "Liberals" support personal freedom. They support standing up for the poor and oppressed. They support regulating big business so they can't abuse the common folk and they support taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class.
Sure there is a sliver that want a more socialistic society... Just like there is a fraction on the right that are bigoted nationalist that want an all white nation... Stop pushing everybody into the same room as the "extremists". Try acknowledging reality. I get called a Libtard left every day on this board. I believe in small government and personal freedom... don't malfunction, its the truth

What personal freedoms does the left support? They sure don't support getting your own insurance from the free market. They don't support personal freedom in not participating in a gay marriage. They don't support going into the work force and making what you're worth without a minimum wage that prices you out of the job market.

Standing up for the poor and the middle class is fine. Demanding someone else pay for them other than you is not.

How are businesses abusing people? You're worth what you're worth. A government mandated wage doesn't make your skills improve to that level. It keeps you out of the work force.

Do the poor and middle class not live here? Why should all of the money required to run this nation rich, poor and middle class all enjoy be put on one group of earners? That doesn't make sense.

Well they do support the right for a gay couple to get married and have the same rights and a heterosexual couple. They support the rights of consumers to be informed by those who handle their food, medicine, money and investments by creating regulations and disclosures... They do what they can to help minorities, women, and immigrants who are statistically underpaid... they support opportunity for our children through education and after school programs... They support our right to breath clean air and drink clean water by trying to keep big companies from dumping poison... Do I need to keep going?

You make fine points, I'm not saying that everything the left does is correct. They go overboard with many things. I wish Liberals and Conservatives could respect each other and see the value that each brings to the table instead of painting the other side as evil. The more people who can see things this way the better off we all would be

These regulations come from the left though. That's my problem. I could respect a left winger that wasn't just coming up with goofy things they want the government to regulate.

Gay people can be married, it's not a real marriage but for government paperwork I suppose we can call it that. They don't get the right to sue someone for not baking them a cake. Hetero couples can't do that if a cake maker won't cooperate with them. They go somewhere else. Gays need to do the same.

Sure you have a right to be informed. Isn't that something a food provider, medicine provider or investment company want to do to keep you as a customer? Is the government really necessary to tell you not to eat 20 cheeseburgers a day from McDonalds? Is a label on a toaster telling you not to use it in the bathtub really necessary?

The level of these regulations is just ridiculous. There's no way a small government should even be involved in 98% of the laws we now have. I may be able to deal with a lefty, if they aren't wanting every detail of our lives regulated or dictated.

I like to think of myself as a moderate but I get called a lefty every day on this board and I'm all for regulation reform and welfare reform. I think many on the left would be too if it makes sense. I think most people like freedom. But most regulations were put in place because there were abuses that caused harm. Sure cut the fat and get rid of any unnecessary regulations but also recognize the value of the good ones that protect us

 

[Missouri_Mike]

You do make a great point there Slade3200. Electing Donald Trump was a giant "fuck you" to government and the establishment.

But that being said - if you ever watch "Waters World" on Fox, you'd be hard pressed to deny that the citizenry is astoundingly ignorant and uninterested in controlling government. Literally 9 out of every 10 people he asks cannot tell you who fought in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War. And don't even think about asking them questions regarding the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution.

Waters world and other "street interviews" are made for entertainment. The people are selected and edited in a way to make them look stupid. There is a reason why the "Real Housewives" and Kardashians are so popular. "We" like to watch stupid people be stupid. The majority of the people that I associate with are capable of having very intelligent conversations. People of every type of political ideology, ethnicity and religion. I know a few nutty characters and a few airheads, but for the most part people, and our nation, are doing just fine.

Then do your own.

It is not the street interviewers that have convinced me of the massive number of voters utterly ignoring the government but thinking they know enough to cast an informed vote. It is my daily interactions with people all over the nation. The vast majority of them do not have a single clue as to what is going on. I polled the people I worked with once to see if they could name the three branches of government. All of them very intelligent people but almost half could not do so.

The man on the street interviews are not of airheads or idiots - they are willfully ignorant of a system that has worked so well that they have not had to pay attention for decades.

Knowing what day the Revolutionary war ended isn't that important. I'm sure many people don't know much about our founders or the constitution or all our laws or how our government works. Maybe a shoemaker just knows how to make shoes, and the farmer only knows how to tend his crops, and the mechanic knows how to rebuild a carburetor with his eyes closed. Thats just fine. Everybody doesn't have to know everything. This is why we are a Republic and thats why we have an electoral college and elected representatives who's skill and job is to know civics and history and the law and represent the will of the people who voted for them.

The scary thing is, I don't know if our current president knows any more than those people on Waters World.

You don't need to be an expert on everything but isn't it a requirement that people should know the basics? Why are we taking the basics of how and why this country was founded out of the education system. Even a carburetor repairman should know the basics of how thee country works. It's not a good idea to just turn this over to other people in a republic.

I totally agree... I think our education system needs a good overhaul. Don't get me started on that one

Our education system is shit. It's nothing more than a teacher union cartel. Kansas just over the border from me passed a school funding bill that pays 15,000 dollars per student. 15,000 dollars. That is insane. Those kids aren't getting 15,000 dollars worth of an education. But the teachers union is. And they suck up so much money in their greed they actually leave the teachers short of materials to actually teach. How pathetic is that.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I totally agree... I think our education system needs a good overhaul. Don't get me started on that one

But that overhaul starts with closing the Department of Education and getting the federal government out of education. States and local municipalities can handle education for their own communities.

That's one approach. Perhaps they try that with a pool of schools in each state to see if it helps or hurts. That should give some good insight

We have that option now. Let people choose with vouchers.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

You actively support the Hate spewed by the left daily. You defend it and support it. You are a piece of Human garbage. As are all the lefties that support this.

Yall are so full of shit. The majority of "Liberals" support personal freedom. They support standing up for the poor and oppressed. They support regulating big business so they can't abuse the common folk and they support taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class.
Sure there is a sliver that want a more socialistic society... Just like there is a fraction on the right that are bigoted nationalist that want an all white nation... Stop pushing everybody into the same room as the "extremists". Try acknowledging reality. I get called a Libtard left every day on this board. I believe in small government and personal freedom... don't malfunction, its the truth

What personal freedoms does the left support? They sure don't support getting your own insurance from the free market. They don't support personal freedom in not participating in a gay marriage. They don't support going into the work force and making what you're worth without a minimum wage that prices you out of the job market.

Standing up for the poor and the middle class is fine. Demanding someone else pay for them other than you is not.

How are businesses abusing people? You're worth what you're worth. A government mandated wage doesn't make your skills improve to that level. It keeps you out of the work force.

Do the poor and middle class not live here? Why should all of the money required to run this nation rich, poor and middle class all enjoy be put on one group of earners? That doesn't make sense.

Well they do support the right for a gay couple to get married and have the same rights and a heterosexual couple. They support the rights of consumers to be informed by those who handle their food, medicine, money and investments by creating regulations and disclosures... They do what they can to help minorities, women, and immigrants who are statistically underpaid... they support opportunity for our children through education and after school programs... They support our right to breath clean air and drink clean water by trying to keep big companies from dumping poison... Do I need to keep going?

You make fine points, I'm not saying that everything the left does is correct. They go overboard with many things. I wish Liberals and Conservatives could respect each other and see the value that each brings to the table instead of painting the other side as evil. The more people who can see things this way the better off we all would be

These regulations come from the left though. That's my problem. I could respect a left winger that wasn't just coming up with goofy things they want the government to regulate.

Gay people can be married, it's not a real marriage but for government paperwork I suppose we can call it that. They don't get the right to sue someone for not baking them a cake. Hetero couples can't do that if a cake maker won't cooperate with them. They go somewhere else. Gays need to do the same.

Sure you have a right to be informed. Isn't that something a food provider, medicine provider or investment company want to do to keep you as a customer? Is the government really necessary to tell you not to eat 20 cheeseburgers a day from McDonalds? Is a label on a toaster telling you not to use it in the bathtub really necessary?

The level of these regulations is just ridiculous. There's no way a small government should even be involved in 98% of the laws we now have. I may be able to deal with a lefty, if they aren't wanting every detail of our lives regulated or dictated.

I like to think of myself as a moderate but I get called a lefty every day on this board and I'm all for regulation reform and welfare reform. I think many on the left would be too if it makes sense. I think most people like freedom. But most regulations were put in place because there were abuses that caused harm. Sure cut the fat and get rid of any unnecessary regulations but also recognize the value of the good ones that protect us

I've called you that. But nice to see we may be getting somewhere.

We can't just keep passing new laws. There are so many laws out there now nobody isn't a criminal. I think the best thing we can do is actually take two years and vote out old laws. No new laws can be passed until we get the old ones down to a reasonable level. Its crazy. God give us ten laws. The US government in all their wisdom has given us a few hundred thousand. Amazingly all variations of the original ten. But with more power behind them.

 

[Slade3200]

Yall are so full of shit. The majority of "Liberals" support personal freedom. They support standing up for the poor and oppressed. They support regulating big business so they can't abuse the common folk and they support taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class.
Sure there is a sliver that want a more socialistic society... Just like there is a fraction on the right that are bigoted nationalist that want an all white nation... Stop pushing everybody into the same room as the "extremists". Try acknowledging reality. I get called a Libtard left every day on this board. I believe in small government and personal freedom... don't malfunction, its the truth

What personal freedoms does the left support? They sure don't support getting your own insurance from the free market. They don't support personal freedom in not participating in a gay marriage. They don't support going into the work force and making what you're worth without a minimum wage that prices you out of the job market.

Standing up for the poor and the middle class is fine. Demanding someone else pay for them other than you is not.

How are businesses abusing people? You're worth what you're worth. A government mandated wage doesn't make your skills improve to that level. It keeps you out of the work force.

Do the poor and middle class not live here? Why should all of the money required to run this nation rich, poor and middle class all enjoy be put on one group of earners? That doesn't make sense.

Well they do support the right for a gay couple to get married and have the same rights and a heterosexual couple. They support the rights of consumers to be informed by those who handle their food, medicine, money and investments by creating regulations and disclosures... They do what they can to help minorities, women, and immigrants who are statistically underpaid... they support opportunity for our children through education and after school programs... They support our right to breath clean air and drink clean water by trying to keep big companies from dumping poison... Do I need to keep going?

You make fine points, I'm not saying that everything the left does is correct. They go overboard with many things. I wish Liberals and Conservatives could respect each other and see the value that each brings to the table instead of painting the other side as evil. The more people who can see things this way the better off we all would be

These regulations come from the left though. That's my problem. I could respect a left winger that wasn't just coming up with goofy things they want the government to regulate.

Gay people can be married, it's not a real marriage but for government paperwork I suppose we can call it that. They don't get the right to sue someone for not baking them a cake. Hetero couples can't do that if a cake maker won't cooperate with them. They go somewhere else. Gays need to do the same.

Sure you have a right to be informed. Isn't that something a food provider, medicine provider or investment company want to do to keep you as a customer? Is the government really necessary to tell you not to eat 20 cheeseburgers a day from McDonalds? Is a label on a toaster telling you not to use it in the bathtub really necessary?

The level of these regulations is just ridiculous. There's no way a small government should even be involved in 98% of the laws we now have. I may be able to deal with a lefty, if they aren't wanting every detail of our lives regulated or dictated.

I like to think of myself as a moderate but I get called a lefty every day on this board and I'm all for regulation reform and welfare reform. I think many on the left would be too if it makes sense. I think most people like freedom. But most regulations were put in place because there were abuses that caused harm. Sure cut the fat and get rid of any unnecessary regulations but also recognize the value of the good ones that protect us

I've called you that. But nice to see we may be getting somewhere.

We can't just keep passing new laws. There are so many laws out there now nobody isn't a criminal. I think the best thing we can do is actually take two years and vote out old laws. No new laws can be passed until we get the old ones down to a reasonable level. Its crazy. God give us ten laws. The US government in all their wisdom has given us a few hundred thousand. Amazingly all variations of the original ten. But with more power behind them.

I'm not a big fan of Trump, mostly because I can't stand his ego and temperament in the office of POTUS... but one good thing that may come from his presidency is just what your asking for, a purge of government. I think we are in need of that in many areas and though I may disagree with many of his cuts and decisions, we always have the ability to reinstate measures in the future if problems exist. It's going to be a very interesting next 4 years

 

[Slade3200]

I've had plenty of battles with you Missouri_Mike and P@triot but nice to see we have the ability to have a civil discussion every once in a while. I'm sure we will be back to throwing blows and insults tomorrow but for tonight, I enjoyed the discussion.