Jesus was not the Messiah

[elvis]

Believe what you want but atheism is arid and dry, because it is founded on pseudo-science. Show me the empirical data that proves God doesn't exist.

See, that is as silly as what you are doing.

Have a good evening.

why do you assume that one is an atheist because one doesn't believe that jesus was the messiah and didn't fulfil the prophesies?

Ringo's funny that way.

 

[Ralph]

Jesus is magic. Too bad he couldn't grow back limbs or put a dismembered corpse together. Now those would be miracles. Instead, he did the same exact tricks as Binny Henn. Unfortunately, he is the child of a supernatural deity who got an underage girl pregnant without the benefit of matrimony. That sends the wrong message. Sounds promiscuous.
I was telling a Hindu the "nativity" myth because I attended Catholic school as a child. So glad the indoctrination didn't "take". Anyway, this Hindu friend said they have the exact same story in "Hindi"? Not sure what the plural is, except its 4 thousand years old instead of only two.

All religions steal each other's stories. The credulous are never very creative.

Anyway, Jesus approved of slavery. That’s all I need to know. Too bad he wasn’t white and had dark skin and dark brown eyes. Wonder how many Americans would “knee down” in front of someone who looked like Bin Laden.

And YOU DON"T APPROVE of slavery? So you advocate the criminals of this nation simply be set free upon society? God did not mandate slavery, nor did Jesus.....man did, you will find no commandment from God to enslave anyone with the exception being for crimes against humanity,...and in that instance you will not find any civilized society upon the face of the earth that does not propagate forced servitude as is engaged in the correctional system.

As anyone can see the position the kingdom of God..aka the church of Jesus Christ takes in relation to slavery, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, THERE IS NEITHER BOND NOR FREE.........." -- Gal. 3:27-28

Jesus did not come to earth to make any political statements or change the life of anyone other than in a spiritual manner. You state that Jesus endorsed slavery simply because He failed to address some of the evils thereof. Does the same apply to poverty, did He also endorse poverty simply because He refused to provide food substance for the entire world? No, to the contrary He made a simple statement, "You will always have the poor among you." -- John 12:8. Much the same can be concluded about slavery, as the majority are slaves due to free will choice, as they have engaged in crimes against humanity, slaves will always be a portion of any society....even the Untied States of American endorses slavery or forced servitude as payment for criminal activity.

This did not preclude Jesus from showing compassion upon the hungry as He felt compassion on the 5000 that followed Him and fed them the fishes and loaves. But when they continued to follow Him, what did He tell them? He chastised them for following Him not because they believed in the message that He was presenting when He confirmed that it was God's message with the miracle of the loaves...but because they simply wanted to feed the flesh. He quickly told them that was not His mission upon earth...that they should quest after that which feeds the spirit instead of the flesh as that was the commissioned duty that Father God had given Him. -- John 6:26-27.

The mission of Jesus was not to free any slaves, not to command any physical army and defeat the enemies of Israel by taking up the position of being a PHYSICAL KING. The Scriptures are quite clear. Jesus came into a world dominated by an oppressive government (to include the practice of slavery), poverty was wide spread throughout the majority of the population. Yet, He did not seek to change the peoples political, social or economic status. He simply told the people God's TRUTH.....His mission was to spread the Gospel Truth, (John 18:37, Luke 7:22) to inform man that he could be free from the reign that death held upon him and could have eternal fellowship with the God of Creation....nothing more, nothing less. God had informed mankind eons ago that His physical life upon earth would be filled with sweat and toil in order to simply live, this was the punishment presented to all mankind -- Genesis 3:17-19. Jesus taught NOTHING CONTRARY to the truth revealed by Father God in any of the revealed word.

And every word that was spoken was confirmed through signs and wonders of the miraculous to endorse the fact that He spoke the TRUTH of GOD. Miracles were never used for PRIVATE gain...they were always used to confirm the word of God as Detailed in clear unambiguous text. ( Mark 16:20, Hebrews 2:3-4)....people believed because of the signs (miracles) preformed by the true messengers of God -- Acts 8:6.

There are many other passages of scripture that confirm the purpose of the miraculous was to AUTHENTICATE the message presented by Christianity or the true messengers of God (Act 4:29-30, 13:12, 14:3, 15:12, Rom. 15:18-19, 1 Cor. 2:4, 1 Thess. 1:5, Ex. 4:30...etc).

If God's intent was to exempt Christians from all the things that must be endured in the Physical World...to keep them from disease and sickness...poverty and death. He has certainly fallen down on the job...no? Over the last 2000 years Christians and Secular alike have suffered from all those physical factors of this existence we call life...poverty, unexpected and premature death by accident, sickness, disease..etc. But, in reality God specifically and quite clearly informs everyone that He has no respect of person (Acts 10:34)....He loves the Sinner and the Saint equally........He would have all men come to the knowledge of the truth and find the salvation that is offered freely through the grace and sacrifice of His only Begotten Son ( John 3:16)....with such spelled out quite clearly, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior. Who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the knowledge of the truth." -- 1 Tim. 2:3-4

If the miracles of the 1st century had as their objective the improvement of the human condition to provide perfect health, wealth, freedom of the recipient, then Jesus and Apostles are dismal failures, because even in the 1st century they left untouched a lot of poor, sick, enslaved, and hungry people. Even Jesus healed a MINORITY of the peoples He instructed in the Gospel truth in Palestine, and healed NONE outside that tiny geographical region of the world...save one, The CANAANITE woman's daughter. In fact anyone would be forced to conclude that both JESUS and GOD were without compassion....IF THE INTENT of the miraculous was to HEAL the peoples of all their worldly sufferings. But the Scriptures confirm the fact that God loves the entire world of humanity (John 3:16, Romans 5:8). Hence the mission of Jesus was not to end slavery nor endorse it...to end poverty nor endorse it.....to become a physical KING and lead His people into geo-political conquest.....but to simply teach the GOSPEL TRUTH.

Why the Gospel truth? For that is the real power of God, not the benefit of the flesh......NO ONE is going to leave this world physically alive. As the inspired apostle has declared, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ; for it is the POWER OF GOD unto salvation to EVERYONE that believeth; to the Jew first, and also the Greek." -- Romans 1:16.

As there is no longer JEW nor GREEK (gentile)....both have been reconciled into ONE BODY. And if ye be Christ's then indeed are ye the seed of father Abraham..and heirs to the PROMISE -- Gal. 3:28-29.

 

[JBeukema]

And YOU DON"T APPROVE of slavery? So you advocate the criminals of this nation simply be set free upon society?

Ignoratio elenchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

God did not mandate slavery, nor did Jesus.....man did, you will find no commandment from God to enslave anyone with the exception being for crimes against humanity,...

bible slavery - Google Search

This has been covered numerous times. Stop lying.

and in that instance you will not find any civilized society upon the face of the earth that does not propagate forced servitude as is engaged in the correctional system.

are you always this dishonest?

As anyone can see the position the kingdom of God..aka the church of Jesus Christ takes in relation to slavery, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, THERE IS NEITHER BOND NOR FREE.........." -- Gal. 3:27-28

So whom is the writer speaking to here and here?

Jesus did not come to earth to make any political statements

Matthew 22:15-22

or change the life of anyone other than in a spiritual manner. You state that Jesus endorsed slavery simply because He failed to address some of the evils thereof.

Actually, he told slaves to be good and he promotes slavery in the OT

Does the same apply to poverty, did He also endorse poverty simply because He refused to provide food substance for the entire world? No

Wrong. He promoted poverty and the renunciation of wealth.


Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

The mission of Jesus was not to free any slaves, not to command any physical army and defeat the enemies of Israel by taking up the position of being a PHYSICAL KING. The Scriptures are quite clear.

They are? What day was Jesus crucified? What time? How many animals did he ride simultaneously into jerusalem? See the OP

Jesus came into a world dominated by an oppressive government (to include the practice of slavery),

Compared to 'god's law', the Romans were merciful.

There are many other passages of scripture that confirm the purpose of the miraculous was to AUTHENTICATE the message presented by Christianity or the true messengers of God (Act 4:29-30, 13:12, 14:3, 15:12, Rom. 15:18-19, 1 Cor. 2:4, 1 Thess. 1:5, Ex. 4:30...etc).

See the OP

 

[John Lemmon]

Show me the empirical data that proves God doesn't exist.

No problem dude: If god did exist, there would be empirical evidence that it does.

 

[JW Frogen]

I don't have a problem with Jesus, but the rest of you fuck heads, I mean really now!

 

[manifold]

I've answered your idiotic posts numerous times, and had addressed that very matter long before you ever started your trolling spree.You, on the other hand refuse to address my points.

You haven't even answered it once.

Go ahead and prove me wrong. Post a link to your alleged response(s). I dare you.

try clicking 'search' or seeing several threads on the matter in this very subforum.

I did. I asked you a specific question which you've continually ignored.

So I'll ask it again. Which Christain denominations advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death? And please spare me the non-answers this time. Please specifically name those denominations that fit your characterization of Christianity.

And enjoy the neg rep for being a huge pussy.

 

[JBeukema]

I did. I asked you a specific question which you've continually ignored.

So I'll ask it again. Which Christain denominations advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death? And please spare me the non-answers this time. Please specifically name those denominations that fit your characterization of Christianity.

Christianity.

Neochristians try to act like it's not there because they're all dishonest to their core.

Now stop being a whiny little bitch and stop hiding and address my points made.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If God approved of slavery, why didn't He let the Israelites stay in Egypt?

If Yeshua approved of slavery, why didn't He keep any?

 

[JBeukema]

If God approved of slavery, why didn't He let the Israelites stay in Egypt?

Members of the Hebrew Super Race ('god's "chosen people"') get special treatment that the inferior races do not

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If Yeshua approved of slavery, why didn't He keep any?

He was a homeless wanderer. He commanded all his followers, if they wished to be perfect, to become homeless wanderers, too.

He dd, however, tell the slaves to behave

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)


These words would be among the religious verses cited as evidence of the rightness of slavery in the United States...

 

[KittenKoder]

 

[manifold]

I did. I asked you a specific question which you've continually ignored.

So I'll ask it again. Which Christain denominations advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death? And please spare me the non-answers this time. Please specifically name those denominations that fit your characterization of Christianity.

Christianity.

Neochristians try to act like it's not there because they're all dishonest to their core.

Now stop being a whiny little bitch and stop hiding and address my points made.

Christianity is NOT a specific denomination.

And addressing your point is precisely what I am doing. YOU said that Christians advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death. I've addressed (i.e. refuted) that point repeatedly. Please back up your assertion by specifically naming which denominations advocate these things or be a man and retract the assertion. Until you do one or the other, I will continue to neg rep you as often as I'm allowed.

 

[Avatar4321]

Christianity.

Neochristians try to act like it's not there because they're all dishonest to their core.

Now stop being a whiny little bitch and stop hiding and address my points made.

Christianity is NOT a specific denomination.

And addressing your point is precisely what I am doing. YOU said that Christians advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death. I've addressed (i.e. refuted) that point repeatedly. Please back up your assertion by specifically naming which denominations advocate these things or be a man and retract the assertion. Until you do one or the other, I will continue to neg rep you as often as I'm allowed.

Ah, but dont you realize that Christians are just one monolithic group? After all, its much easier to just pain a broad brush picture rather than actually learn about a group that you oppose. Heaven forbid he actually *gasp* try to learn something!

 

[manifold]

Even if Christianity were one large monolithic group, they still don't advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death.

JB made a retarded assertion. I called him on it. He's been running like a pussy from it ever since. It's really that simple.

 

[logical4u]

If Islam believes Yeshua was a prophet, why don't they follow his word?
Christians do not want science done away with, it verifies the existance of G*d for those that doubt. They do want the THEORY of evolution taught as well as the the Biblical teaching of creation.
Yeshua was the only human/diety to teach the same rules for all peoples: faith and doers of good works can get you eternal bliss. He did not discriminate against any (even the ones that were cursed from ages before, read Jubilees).
The Christian teachings: that the Lord is glorious, everyone has a chance (see above), you should point out others sins (not necessarily punnish them for the actions), you should forgive yourself as well as others, and that everyone must make their own choice.
These are great ideals. The other religions do not leave the decision to the individual, it is forced on them (sometimes at the point of death).
That being said, there are many 'false leaders' that pick and choose phrases from the Bible to twist it for their own benefit. The followers (if they can read) are responsible for supporting these frauds.
If there is any doubt, read the Bible (a book about spiritual growth) for yourself and pray for understanding and grace. If you are genuine, your prayers will be answered in His way.
May you find your way, spiritually, and there you will have peace.

 

[N4mddissent]

The true message of the Gospel delivers freedom, not domination. The Christian faith has no desire to control anything, however, many churches have become businesses, and do make an effort to control their communities and members. that is sad but true. As I usually put it, "The local church is not the TRUE CHURCH, but the local needs the TRUE CHURCH."

How many times has this shown up? All the things wrong with christianity are not really problems, since they are not REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs. REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs are perfect and beautiful and good.

Disclaimer: REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs may vary church to church and may not be the same for all people. Subject to terms and conditions as applicable by whatever situation I have already deemed appropriate and moral but henceforth I am obligated to claim to have derived my moral judgement from REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs. REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs are not intended in anyway to construe other christian beliefs as wrong, but merely assert that only REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs are right. Any disputes as to the terms and conditions of REAL CHRISTIAN beliefs will be dismissed and are not subject to arbitration from any outside source except the bible as interpreted by REAL CHRISTIAN belief adherents. Equal Opportunity Discriminator.​

"Thinking yourself to be wise, you make yourself a fool." In Dallas Texas they have been able to make a very good example for just what I have said, ahd your rather ignorant disclaimer falls flat. In dallas we read or hear in the news on a regular basis these days that a prisoner has been released because he has been proven innocent of the crime for which he went to prison. What this means here is that the truth is true, even if some idiots have manipulated the minds of others into believing that it is not true. So, "True Believers," may not be a thing that some believe to be a true discription of a select group, and people like you are trying to convince others that all people whomcall themselves Christians are. Well, Jesus said, "Not all who call Me Lord will inheret the Kingdom of Heaven." Why do you suppose that is? It is because there are those who not only "call" Him Lord, but in their lives He is Lord. The fact is, truth is truth, and a lie is a lie.

So, continue to believe as you do, but in the end, truth will show it's face, and for you it will be a frightening thing to see.

It sounds almost like you've mistaken me for a post-modernist. No, I believe in absolute truth. I believe that it is possible to believe something that is not true- just like your prisoner example illustrates. I happen to believe that belief in god is one of those false beliefs that people hold, just like believing a prisoner is guilty when he is not.

I am very familiar with what the bible says about "not all those who say unto me, lord, lord"... and all that jazz. It was part of my point actually. There are christians out there who understand the will of god differently than you. They may have profound disagreements with you. But they are as convinced of their righteousness as you are. They may have bible versus that support their belief. The only thing close to a guide to being a christian is the bible. And due to the nature of the bible, it can be quoted and interpreted by readers to support various and conflicting views. And each group thinks their interpretation is correct, just like you do. They think their view is the view of REAL CHRISTIANS. There is no objective solution to the dispute, since it is only the subjective interpretation of a book with authors who are long dead, from a culture that has long since passed into history.

Make your case. Tell me the absolute Truths that inform your concept of christianity. What do you understand as absolutely essential? I doubt it will be very difficult to find another christian who disagrees and believes they are REAL CHRISTIANS. As a former christian believer, I have been involved in inter-denominational debates many times, and know the fervor with which each group believes their interpretation is the correct interpretation. You'd think if god had wanted people to obey so bad, he would have made his instructions unambiguous.

Lastly, why do you think their are other christians who disagree with your interpretation? Are they stupid? Do they lack faith, and simply don't really believe? Do they have trouble reading? Do they deny the truth to mislead others- are all christians who disagree with you secretly agents of the devil? Does god just not grant them insight? A bit precocious of him, I would think. Or do you believe that they simply are lazy and haven't really searched for the TRUTH?

 

[ABikerSailor]

If Islam believes Yeshua was a prophet, why don't they follow his word?
Christians do not want science done away with, it verifies the existance of G*d for those that doubt. They do want the THEORY of evolution taught as well as the the Biblical teaching of creation.
Yeshua was the only human/diety to teach the same rules for all peoples: faith and doers of good works can get you eternal bliss. He did not discriminate against any (even the ones that were cursed from ages before, read Jubilees).
The Christian teachings: that the Lord is glorious, everyone has a chance (see above), you should point out others sins (not necessarily punnish them for the actions), you should forgive yourself as well as others, and that everyone must make their own choice.
These are great ideals. The other religions do not leave the decision to the individual, it is forced on them (sometimes at the point of death).
That being said, there are many 'false leaders' that pick and choose phrases from the Bible to twist it for their own benefit. The followers (if they can read) are responsible for supporting these frauds.
If there is any doubt, read the Bible (a book about spiritual growth) for yourself and pray for understanding and grace. If you are genuine, your prayers will be answered in His way.
May you find your way, spiritually, and there you will have peace.

If the IsLAMES believe Yeshua was a prophet, why don't they follow Him?

Simple...........Yeshua was descended from Issac, and Mohammed was descended from Ishmael. Hagar was pissed that Ishmael didn't get the blessing from Abraham, and when she got kicked out of the tribe because Sarah didn't like the way she undermined her authority as Abraham's wife (remember Hagar was a servant woman), when she landed at the place where the Zam Zam well was created to keep her alive (supposedly by an angel, but I have my doubts), she took everything she'd learned from Abraham and tried to create a religion of her own (based on a lot of the same things), which is one of the reasons that IsLAME wants everyone to be MusLAME.

Jews don't do that.

 

[JBeukema]

Christianity is NOT a specific denomination.

There are no 'denominations' in 'true' Christianity actually based upon the bible. There are only 'denominations' in neochrtistianity (people who don't even know what they believe), where the ignorant hypocrites wave the bible around as a source of morality and law yet refuse to follow it themseles because they object to 'god's law' and realize that the to follow the bible would be one of the very worst thing any person, People, or nation could ever possibly do. So, they construct their own little cults (baptists, catholics, lutherans...) and make it up as they go along. They still, however try to call for a 'christian nation' and infect the law and culture with a book that demnands genocide, rape, and murder. Most of the idiots have never even read the book an/d or fail to comprehend it and have no idea what they're even advocating when they praise the boom or demand it be followed.

And addressing your point is precisely what I am doing.

Actually, you're ignoring it. That they are hypocrites does not change wheat the advocate every time they praise the book and 'god's law'. Christians, as a whole, don't even know what their own 'holy book' says and they put up a mental barrier to prevent themselves from ever attempting to understand it because they're too weak to face reality but simultenously refuse to follow the law and morality they praise so much because they realize how immoral, unethical, and genuinely fucked up it really is.. They are liars to the core, and they lie even to themselves.

YOU said that Christians advocate rape, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death.

They do every time they advocate 'god's law' and 'being a good christian' or say 'god's will be done'.

Please back up your assertion by specifically naming which denominations advocate these things

Christianity. Of course, if you ask the right questions, you'll realize that most neochristians reject the bible and a source of truth, preferring the words of any man who says what they want to hear. Hell, here on USMB, of those who replied, only one-half of persons claiming to be 'christian' cited the bible as the source of truth or claimed to base their beliefs on the bible.

Until you do one or the other, I will continue to neg rep you as often as I'm allowed.

1)I already have
2) Grow up and stop acting like a whiny little child

 

[ABikerSailor]

JB, then please explain why all Baptists, Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists and the like identify themselves as "Christian"?

Christian is the major group, Baptist, Protestant, etc, are subgroups of the larger group.

 

[JBeukema]

JB, then please explain why all Baptists, Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists and the like identify themselves as "Christian"?

Why do republicans claim to be 'conservatives' and 'patriots' when they oppose constitutional limitations placed on federal power? Why do Democrats claim to be 'liberals' when they're really not?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Are you going to answer the question or not?

Most of those people, when asked, will tell you they are Christian first, and then will tell you their denomination.