Zone1 Perhaps the most compelling prophesy in human history.

[Cougarbear]

In Daniel 9:26-27, the angel goes on to accurately foretell of events concerning Israel’s seven-year long war with Rome (Iyyar of A.D. 66 to the fall of Masada on Passover of A.D. 74

What is your problem. I was referring to Isaiah. Try to stay up. Slow poke.

 

[rampart]

Oh stop! No one believes you.

3 books of macabees describe the attempts of the selucids (antiocus) and ptolemies to hellenize the jews.

ptolemy sotor even syncretized the god "serapis" whose story is so similar to christ you might tend to confuse them .

 

[surada]

What is your problem. I was referring to Isaiah. Try to stay up. Slow poke.

Isaiah is about Israel.

 

[surada]

“They?” Yes, Jews because they have rejected Jesus the Messiah. I was following the Jewish religion for 24 years. I know what they believe and how they think. My brother’s family are very active Jews. We will be having Hannamass with them in a few days.
The only way to justify their belief is to force simple language into a complexed false narrative. Who will believe the prophet’s report of the prophecies of Jesus Christ who will take upon himself our sins if we believe our reports.
Still nothing about chapter 29 and the book? Have you found it yet?

You don't know much about the Bible. You do lean into the Scofield heresy.

 

[Cougarbear]

3 books of macabees describe the attempts of the selucids (antiocus) and ptolemies to hellenize the jews.

ptolemy sotor even syncretized the god "serapis" whose story is so similar to christ you might tend to confuse them .

There were many others claiming to be the Messiah in those days. Where are their movements? Nowhere. There’s but one Jesus Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

Isaiah is about Israel.

Mostly the northern kingdom. What you are missing is the prophecies of events that were far into the future from Isaiah.

 

[Cougarbear]

You don't know much about the Bible. You do lean into the Scofield heresy.

I have never read Scofield. I am able to tell when prophets were revealing the future. You have been duped by those who don’t believe in God.

 

[surada]

Mostly the northern kingdom. What you are missing is the prophecies of events that were far into the future from Isaiah.

According to Darby.

 

[surada]

I have never read Scofield. I am able to tell when prophets were revealing the future. You have been duped by those who don’t believe in God.

You don't have to it's permeated protestant fundamentalist churches since 1972.

 

[Cougarbear]

According to Darby.

According to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost

 

[E. Pluribus]

Prophesies are just a guess. Dallas lost to Green Bay and were favorites even. So much for prophesies.

 

[Cougarbear]

You don't have to it's permeated protestant fundamentalist churches since 1972.

I’m not Protestant

 

[The Irish Ram]

Daniel 9:24-27​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Let me guess, you can't make hides or tails out of it, right?

Right.

The term Anointed one is in reference to the Messiah because that is the translation of Messiah. When looking in the OT, we find this a handful of places, but most of them are in reference to anointing kings of Israel like Saul and David. Why is this important? It is important because all other Messianic prophesies are interpreted as being Messianic in origin. However, there is no need for interpretation here because Messiah is spelled out for us.

This is the only verifiable futuristic reference to a coming Messiah or anointed one. In fact, it is a calendar for the coming Messiah that Christians believe was Christ.

The first Christian on record that made the observation that this was a calendar for the coming Messiah appears to have been Justin Martyr who lived from 153 to 165 AD. What is strange, however, is that he never made any written explanation as to calculating the time of the Daniel prophesy to the time of Jesus.

Then came Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 180) who also associated the verse with the calendar for Christ but failed to give us an explanation of the calculation.

However, Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 200) gave it a go as he was the first Christian writer to explain the time periods in Daniel 9, although he was a bit vague about the details. For him:

• • The “most holy” one (Dan 9:24) is Jesus Christ.
  • The 490 years began with Cyrus.
  • The first seven weeks (49 years) were the period of the construction of the temple.
  • The 62 weeks led up to the first advent of Christ.
  • The final week includes Nero’s erection of an “abomination” in Jerusalem as well as the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70.

Clement, therefore, included both Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 490 years. But this implies a gap between the first 69 weeks and the last week.

From then on, there have been, and continue to be, a myriad of Christian theologians who tried their hand at the calculations, which was difficult for various reasons. First off, the wording in Daniel is weird as they used strange verbiage to describe the passing of time. Secondly, the Jewish calendar Daniel used was different from the Gregorian calendar we all use today. For example, the Jewish calendar has 360 days and ours has 365 days. Then factor in the leap year problem. Not only do you have to factor them in, not all centuries on the Gregorian calendar had leap years as the Gregorian calendar therefore omits three leap days every 400 years. And lastly, the original translation was in Hebrew. Only those who were experts in Hebrew had no problem with the wording, or the calendar. So, over the years the calculations seem to have been getting better and better as theologians build off each other's findings and interpretations.

So, what did Jewish scholars say about the scripture? After all, they were the experts, right?

Maimonides, who lived from (1138–1204) was the most preeminent Rabbinical medieval philosopher in history, had this to say about the verse.

"Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teimen, Chapter 3. p.24)

Likewise, the Sanhedrin wrote, "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people (Sanhedrin, 97b)

Sounds to me like this verse is a hot potato with Jewish scribes. In fact, a rabbi by the name of Leopold Cohn, who was also a rabbi born in Berezna, Hungary in the mid 1800s was also fascinated with the calendar. It all began as Cohn recited his morning devotions that involved the 12th article of the Jewish creed which declares, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah and, though he tarries, yet will I wait daily for his coming." So, Cohn got to wondering what was meant by the Messiah having to tarry or wait to come. He was then directed to the teachings of non-other than Maimonides, who was convinced from Daniel 9 that the Messiah should have come, at least by the year 1138, but did not for whatever reason. Naturally, he did not provide us with his calculation. What a shame.

Cohn was told by his superiors that the Messiah delayed his coming because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, God changed his mind. However, Cohn did not buy it, as he calculated the calendar for the coming Messiah himself and said it pointed to the time of Jesus. Cohn then ended up giving up his entire career as a rabbi and came to America to start the Jews for Jesus movement.

Daniel predicted to the day when Israel would become a nation in a day, May 14, 1948.

 

[surada]

I’m not Protestant

I know, but you have come under the influence of charlatans... Joseph Smith and John Nelson Darby.

 

[surada]

Daniel 9:24-27​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Let me guess, you can't make hides or tails out of it, right?

Right.

The term Anointed one is in reference to the Messiah because that is the translation of Messiah. When looking in the OT, we find this a handful of places, but most of them are in reference to anointing kings of Israel like Saul and David. Why is this important? It is important because all other Messianic prophesies are interpreted as being Messianic in origin. However, there is no need for interpretation here because Messiah is spelled out for us.

This is the only verifiable futuristic reference to a coming Messiah or anointed one. In fact, it is a calendar for the coming Messiah that Christians believe was Christ.

The first Christian on record that made the observation that this was a calendar for the coming Messiah appears to have been Justin Martyr who lived from 153 to 165 AD. What is strange, however, is that he never made any written explanation as to calculating the time of the Daniel prophesy to the time of Jesus.

Then came Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 180) who also associated the verse with the calendar for Christ but failed to give us an explanation of the calculation.

However, Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 200) gave it a go as he was the first Christian writer to explain the time periods in Daniel 9, although he was a bit vague about the details. For him:

• • The “most holy” one (Dan 9:24) is Jesus Christ.
  • The 490 years began with Cyrus.
  • The first seven weeks (49 years) were the period of the construction of the temple.
  • The 62 weeks led up to the first advent of Christ.
  • The final week includes Nero’s erection of an “abomination” in Jerusalem as well as the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70.

Clement, therefore, included both Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 490 years. But this implies a gap between the first 69 weeks and the last week.

From then on, there have been, and continue to be, a myriad of Christian theologians who tried their hand at the calculations, which was difficult for various reasons. First off, the wording in Daniel is weird as they used strange verbiage to describe the passing of time. Secondly, the Jewish calendar Daniel used was different from the Gregorian calendar we all use today. For example, the Jewish calendar has 360 days and ours has 365 days. Then factor in the leap year problem. Not only do you have to factor them in, not all centuries on the Gregorian calendar had leap years as the Gregorian calendar therefore omits three leap days every 400 years. And lastly, the original translation was in Hebrew. Only those who were experts in Hebrew had no problem with the wording, or the calendar. So, over the years the calculations seem to have been getting better and better as theologians build off each other's findings and interpretations.

So, what did Jewish scholars say about the scripture? After all, they were the experts, right?

Maimonides, who lived from (1138–1204) was the most preeminent Rabbinical medieval philosopher in history, had this to say about the verse.

"Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teimen, Chapter 3. p.24)

Likewise, the Sanhedrin wrote, "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people (Sanhedrin, 97b)

Sounds to me like this verse is a hot potato with Jewish scribes. In fact, a rabbi by the name of Leopold Cohn, who was also a rabbi born in Berezna, Hungary in the mid 1800s was also fascinated with the calendar. It all began as Cohn recited his morning devotions that involved the 12th article of the Jewish creed which declares, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah and, though he tarries, yet will I wait daily for his coming." So, Cohn got to wondering what was meant by the Messiah having to tarry or wait to come. He was then directed to the teachings of non-other than Maimonides, who was convinced from Daniel 9 that the Messiah should have come, at least by the year 1138, but did not for whatever reason. Naturally, he did not provide us with his calculation. What a shame.

Cohn was told by his superiors that the Messiah delayed his coming because of the sinfulness of Israel. In other words, God changed his mind. However, Cohn did not buy it, as he calculated the calendar for the coming Messiah himself and said it pointed to the time of Jesus. Cohn then ended up giving up his entire career as a rabbi and came to America to start the Jews for Jesus movement.

In the subsequent period of 62 weeks, or what are actually 434 years, the city is rebuilt and settled (verse 25b), at the end of which time an "anointed one shall be cut off" (verse 26a); this "anointed one" is generally considered to refer to the High Priest Onias III, whose murder outside Jerusalem in 171/0 BCE is recorded in 2 Maccabees 4:23–28.[6

 

[Cougarbear]

I know, but you have come under the influence of charlatans... Joseph Smith and John Nelson Darby.

There are so many doctrinal differences that Protestants won’t take us in either. The only thing in common is the Bible. We have the KJV Bible. And calling religious leaders names doesn’t help your argument. You are under the influence of Satan. There. Same to you but more of it. Cut low. Your mother wears army boots. Anything else? Try some real logic.

 

[surada]

There are so many doctrinal differences that Protestants won’t take us in either. The only thing in common is the Bible. We have the KJV Bible. And calling religious leaders names doesn’t help your argument. You are under the influence of Satan. There. Same to you but more of it. Cut low. Your mother wears army boots. Anything else? Try some real logic.

Dispensationism, Dominionism and the rapture were invented by Darby in 1830.

 

[Cougarbear]

Dispensationism, Dominionism and the rapture were invented by Darby in 1830.

Since Joseph Smith didn’t know Darby, and the revelations about that with Joseph Smith began before 1830, there’s no connection nor comparison. Most of Joseph Smith’s doctrines came while translating the Book of Mormon from 1827 to 1830. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized and incorporated in 1830. Maybe Darby got it from Joseph Smith since dispensations understanding came before 1830. Your understanding is now hereby cancelled. Time for you to become the student.

 

[surada]

Since Joseph Smith didn’t know Darby, and the revelations about that with Joseph Smith began before 1830, there’s no connection nor comparison. Most of Joseph Smith’s doctrines came while translating the Book of Mormon from 1827 to 1830. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized and incorporated in 1830. Maybe Darby got it from Joseph Smith since dispensations understanding came before 1830. Your understanding is now hereby cancelled. Time for you to become the student.

Translating from the Egyptian?

 

[Cougarbear]

Translating from the Egyptian?

Darby did not come to America until 1862-1877. Oops!!!
By the way, the first missionary-apostle that went to Europe-England was in 1837, two years after Joseph Smith received and wrote much of the Pearl of Great Price. So, that’s a no go. The fact is, you are wrong that no other people read the Bible and came up with the interpretation that revelation was true.