Is There a God? Or Gods?

[Taz]

Our god must have a mama-god and a papa-god.

Why?

Everyone has to. So why not god if we're made in his image?

The logic doesn't follow ....

Being made in His image doesn't necessarily mean He was made the same way we were ... you give humans WAY too much credit.

And you have no way of proving that god aren't made by others as in a birth or otherwise. So my claim is just as valid as yours. Agreed?

 

[Taz]

Got it. You can't answer the simple question, so you spout dogma.

Shrug. No, you don't "got it." I wasn't spouting dogma, but actual experience...These were the scriptures that jump-started my own search. And--I got it.

So Meri, virgin birth, real or allegorical?

 

[harmonica]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

 

[hobelim]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

 

[harmonica]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

true--for some
IMO--religion is good for some
they teach good things--but can get out of hand sometimes:
Inquisition/Crusades/etc

 

[hobelim]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

true--for some
IMO--religion is good for some
they teach good things--but can get out of hand sometimes:
Inquisition/Crusades/etc

I have seen sects and individuals from all major religions getting out of hand all of the time as if that was the inevitable result of devotion to whatever irrational belief system that anyone may defile their own minds with.

Think about it. If people are taught to do irrational things that make them feel better during times of trouble, pray to the ethers for guidance and help, sacrifice goats, stone unbelievers, burn witches, behead infidels, etc., even something as seemingly innocuous as lighting candles or relying on a lucky charm, things are bound to only get worse and worse.

 

[RWNJ]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

true--for some
IMO--religion is good for some
they teach good things--but can get out of hand sometimes:
Inquisition/Crusades/etc

Religion was not the cause of the inquisition. It was the result a human lust for power. The crusades were in response to Muslim aggression.

 

[Meriweather]

So Meri, virgin birth, real or allegorical?

Why are you asking me?

 

[harmonica]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

true--for some
IMO--religion is good for some
they teach good things--but can get out of hand sometimes:
Inquisition/Crusades/etc

Religion was not the cause of the inquisition. It was the result a human lust for power. The crusades were in response to Muslim aggression.

what??

The Crusades were a series of religious wars sanctioned by the Latin Church

term "Crusades" is also applied to other church-sanctioned campaigns

Crusades - Wikipedia

 

[Taz]

So Meri, virgin birth, real or allegorical?

Why are you asking me?

I want to see you tiptoe around the subject some more.

 

[Meriweather]

I want to see you tiptoe around the subject some more.

As the only thing we have discussed is the Old Testament account of the Great Flood written in Genesis, I don't see how this pertains.

By the way, I didn't tip-toe. I stomped your toes.

 

[ding]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

Communism is naturalized humanism.

 

[ding]

Our god must have a mama-god and a papa-god.

Why?

Everyone has to. So why not god if we're made in his image?

The logic doesn't follow ....

Being made in His image doesn't necessarily mean He was made the same way we were ... you give humans WAY too much credit.

And you have no way of proving that god aren't made by others as in a birth or otherwise. So my claim is just as valid as yours. Agreed?

No. Disagree.

 

[BULLDOG]

Great. Now we're getting somewhere. I'll be just as correct if I chose Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, or any one of the thousands of primal-indigenous religions. Wearing a head dress and doing rain dances is just as valid as going to a Christian church. I guess that whole "either believe in Jesus, or go to hell" thing is just bullshit since every religion is just as good as any other. Right?

Nice extrapolation of what I said .... only problem is .... that ain't what I said.

You asked if it was possible that one God (by presenting himself in multiple personifications) could be worshiped thru multiple religions - the answer is yes. Did I say that ALL religions worship the same God (by whatever name)? No, I didn't say that.

There is only one true God - and we are called to worship Him before all others. You'll know Him when you meet Him. Is it possible that the God to which they do rain dances is the same God as mine? Sure - it's possible. Is it possible that God spoke to those people who wear head dresses and do rain dance? Sure - it's possible.

Let's keep in mind that "wearing head dresses and doing rain dances" is a manifestation of religion methodology, not of belief. There is no substantial difference between that "head dress" and the Pope's mitre. Both are merely the result of interpretations of God's word. Is one any less valid than the other? You'll have to ask God about that.
Is it likely? Only God knows.

MY God would not desert a whole civilization of people simply because they can't read the Bible. My God would speak to them in language, and symbols, and parables, couched in terms they would understand. My God is all-knowing and all-inclusive. For you to somehow think that you can judge His relationship with other peoples is the height of egotism and self-inflated sense of importance. Not to mention - it means you're a damn poor judge of your own character.

You call it po-ta-to, I call it po-tah-to. Neither is right - neither is wrong, and in the end, they both taste great fried up with some sausage and eggs.

Which one is right? Ask God.

Are you responding to the wrong post? The question I asked is nothing like what you claim I asked. I'll get back to you as soon as your God speaks to me in language, and symbols, and parables, couched in terms I will understand

I responded directly to the quoted post ------- #47.

He has already spoken to you ---- you choose not to listen.

Then you need to reread post ---- #47. That's nothing like what I wrote. He needs to speak up because I never heard a thing.

None are so deaf as those who choose not to hear.

Right, and none are so bearded as those who refuse to shave.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

I'm pretty sure that there is only me. I can't be altogether certain, particularly in my current state of mind, but I'm pretty sure that I've always been, and there was, is, and always will be, only me. To cope with an eternity of time to myself, I'm often given to long, elaborate daydreams, wherein I envision myself with some random set of fanciful limitations and defining characteristics. I imagine that I am not the only consciousness, that there are other entities like me, and I assign them definitions and limitations similar to the ones that I've dreamed up for myself, and then I hypothesize about how I might interact with these other entities given the circumstances that I've concocted. Sometimes, I'm so taken with these daydreams that I lose myself in the fragmented and finite "me" that is the protagonist of a given reverie, and I forget, for a time, that I am all. But, eventually, the thought exercise reaches the sort of conclusion that would be inevitable for such a finite and definable existence, and I awaken once more to the reality of my omnipresent solitude.

The rest of you are just figments of my imagination. I hope that doesn't make you feel marginalized.

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm pretty sure that there is only me. I can't be altogether certain, particularly in my current state of mind, but I'm pretty sure that I've always been, and there was, is, and always will be, only me. To cope with an eternity of time to myself, I'm often given to long, elaborate daydreams, wherein I envision myself with some random set of fanciful limitations and defining characteristics. I imagine that I am not the only consciousness, that there are other entities like me, and I assign them definitions and limitations similar to the ones that I've dreamed up for myself, and then I hypothesize about how I might interact with these other entities given the circumstances that I've concocted. Sometimes, I'm so taken with these daydreams that I lose myself in the fragmented and finite "me" that is the protagonist of a given reverie, and I forget, for a time, that I am all. But, eventually, the thought exercise reaches the sort of conclusion that would be inevitable for such a finite and definable existence, and I awaken once more to the reality of my omnipresent solitude.

The rest of you are just figments of my imagination. I hope that doesn't make you feel marginalized.

I know it might seem that way to you, but that's just because my computer program that created you, and everything else as a massive simulation of what human life might be designed you to think that.

 

[Spare_change]

Our god must have a mama-god and a papa-god.

Why?

Everyone has to. So why not god if we're made in his image?

The logic doesn't follow ....

Being made in His image doesn't necessarily mean He was made the same way we were ... you give humans WAY too much credit.

And you have no way of proving that god aren't made by others as in a birth or otherwise. So my claim is just as valid as yours. Agreed?

The difference is simple ...

I make no claim, and your claim is unsubstantiated.

 

[Spare_change]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

the human brain--the human need for ''hope''
..look at all the infinite variety and difference in human ideas/thoughts/conclusions/etc on every subject you can think of
..humans are constantly thinking/'needing' to think
...so they will come up with these myths/ideas/hopes/etc to make them feel at ease/feel good/stop the pain-people do this all the time

ie:
with Germany being pounded, by countries much larger/greater than them,and dying in WW2 --hitler thinks Germany will be saved by Roosevelt dying !!??!!!
hitler was hoping so much--that he rationalized the unbelievable
people hope/rationalize/imagine/scheme/etc a lot--in bizarre ways!! in all aspects:
sports
love interests
sex is a big one as we see in rape/sex assault/etc
finance
friendship
murder--so many bizarre aspects here
these all show the infinite and bizarre ways the human mind can ''think'' and ''hope''

briefly:
the human mind ''needs'' to be at ease....''needs'' hope
the mind does not like to be restless/''in the dark''
and religion fulfills that need

I see religion more like a specious cup of poisoned wine. When people drink it, they go nuts and then religion offers the remedy, more wine.

true--for some
IMO--religion is good for some
they teach good things--but can get out of hand sometimes:
Inquisition/Crusades/etc

I have seen sects and individuals from all major religions getting out of hand all of the time as if that was the inevitable result of devotion to whatever irrational belief system that anyone may defile their own minds with.

Think about it. If people are taught to do irrational things that make them feel better during times of trouble, pray to the ethers for guidance and help, sacrifice goats, stone unbelievers, burn witches, behead infidels, etc., even something as seemingly innocuous as lighting candles or relying on a lucky charm, things are bound to only get worse and worse.

Too many people - maybe even, MOST people - seem unable to define the difference between "religion" and "a belief in God".

Religion - the methodology by which you worship God - is a human construct. It is subject to the human interpretation of words and events. As such, it is subject to all the fables and foibles of all things human. It can be abused, it can be exclusionary - hell, it can even be wrong.

God's love for man - and man's love for God - is a construct of God.

People who confuse the two remain confused and lost.

 

[BULLDOG]

Our god must have a mama-god and a papa-god.

Why?

Everyone has to. So why not god if we're made in his image?

The logic doesn't follow ....

Being made in His image doesn't necessarily mean He was made the same way we were ... you give humans WAY too much credit.

I understand. If you have a made up God, there is no reason why you can't just make up a bunch of stuff to describe him.

 

[ding]

Wow! What a response. I'm quite pleased that back and forth name calling has been minimal.

Just to throw something into the mix. If we have a Heavenly Father, why don't we have a Heavenly Mother?

And, the oldest know referrals to a deity are crude carvings of Earth Mother from thousands of years ago.

It goes to reason that God would have masculine and feminine contained within his nature.