Ukraine has lost....and is losing more.....

[Deadstick]

By fleeing your beloved motherland?
You, bastards, always bent where the wind blew. We saved you from Turks but you chose Germans over us in WW1, then went with them again in WW2, came to for a while when Germans got beatten and then again got carried away by promises of a better life, just like Hohols now, entering the fucking EU and got fucked up as usual, dipshits. So, Dick, instead of calling you a hero I'd recommend your neighbours to call you a traitor and kick your ass once in a while.

They never learn, i hope this time it's the final lesson.

 

[ESay]

There is no way Odessa can be left in the hands of those Nazis, it's a Russian City and if not liberated the Ukrainian Regime will allow the US to turn it into a NATO base, Russia can't allow that.

Yeah, it is a bold guess, but there is a number of reasons why this city will included in 'remaining' Ukraine. I think that the result of this war will be decided between the big two - the US and China. Strange enough, isn't it?

 

[Ringo]

You mean after Stalin murdered 20 million or so? Great point ...

Between 1924 and 1953, when Stalin was in power, less than 4 million people were incarcerated. Including criminals, traitors and Nazi collaborators. Reading idiotic statements that Stalin killed between 20 and 150 million people, one has a legitimate sense of contempt for idiots zombified by years of propaganda.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Ukrainian commanders are saying that the bottleneck is no longer western weapons, but people who can use them. Ukraine's Biggest Problem Isn't Weapons, It's Lack Of Fighting Men | ZeroHedge
Why don't Ukrainians want to fight for their country. Why should we send anything more when Ukraine isnt serious about its defense. Looks like a purposefully contrived method to get us into another quagmire or nuke exchange.

 

[Deadstick]

Ukrainian commanders are saying that the bottleneck is no longer western weapons, but people who can use them. Ukraine's Biggest Problem Isn't Weapons, It's Lack Of Fighting Men | ZeroHedge
Why don't Ukrainians want to fight for their country. Why should we send anything more when Ukraine isnt serious about its defense. Looks like a purposefully contrived method to get us into another quagmire or nuke exchange.

Many have worked out they are not fighting for their Country, they are fighting for NATO and corrupt Oligarchs.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Yeah, it is a bold guess, but there is a number of reasons why this city will included in 'remaining' Ukraine. I think that the result of this war will be decided between the big two - the US and China. Strange enough, isn't it?

"What if I call Russia China's puppet and hopefully feel less pain about being a puppet myself." Right?
Isn't that a thick-headed selukien psychology? Like when your house has burned down and you're downhearted until you find that the neighbor's house has burned too. The problem is the neighbor's house is okay and the neighbor is going to decide what will become of you.

 

[ESay]

"What if I call Russia China's puppet and hopefully feel less pain about being a puppet myself." Right?
Isn't that a thick-headed selukien psychology? Like when your house has burned down and you're downhearted until you find that the neighbor's house has burned too. The problem is the neighbor's house is okay and the neighbor is going to decide what will become of you.

Yeah, I really enjoy you Russians getting butthurt after having been told your shithole is far from a 'superpower' status now. You know, Shurik, I don't argue that Ukraine is a puppet and failed state. But, from your part, you will never admit that your country is - okay, not a puppet state - nothing more than a lesser partner in a possible Chinese sphere.

And yes, the result of this war will be decided by not Russia. Though, you have a good chance now to significantly strengthen your position in future bargain.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Yeah, I really enjoy you Russians getting butthurt after having been told your shithole is far from a 'superpower' status now. You know, Shurik, I don't argue that Ukraine is a puppet and failed state. But, from your part, you will never admit that your country is - okay, not a puppet state - nothing more than a lesser partner in a possible Chinese sphere.

And yes, the result of this war will be decided by not Russia. Though, you have a good chance now to significantly strengthen your position in future bargain.

I've heard that somewhere, haven't I? Anton never stops saying something of the kind and your shit eating friend pastes pictures he pulls out of his ass non stop. This and that Ukraine is a democracy. Is it, by the way?
Anyway, dream on if it makes you feel better, don't forget that "Volna" radio wave though.

 

[Zavulon]

Yeah, it is a bold guess, but there is a number of reasons why this city will included in 'remaining' Ukraine. I think that the result of this war will be decided between the big two - the US and China. Strange enough, isn't it?

Really? You think? Do you have any specific reasons to "think" so?

 

[ESay]

Really? You think? Do you have any specific reasons to "think" so?

What do you ask specifically? That Odesa will be included in Ukraine or that the US-China agreements will decide the result of the war?

If the latter, then it is realization that all security issues are all intertwined in the modern world. You can't view the Russia-Ukraine war as a separate issue between Russia and Ukraine, or even more widely as between Russia and the West. You can't view the China-Taiwan relations as a separate issue between two parts of China. And so on. And two world powers will have to balance this system by finding mutually acceptable terms of compromise.

I have a strong impression that China will be more than okay with a draw in the war in Ukraine. By a draw I mean Ukraine de facto recognizing occupied areas under the Russian rule (how large these areas will be depends on you), and a neutral status with 'no boots on the ground'. In exchange Ukraine will get a 'remaining' state with political system independent from Russia.

The main obstacle here is the American establishment doesn't support this idea now. But I hope for some changes in November that will remove this obstacle.

Should I explain why Russia will have to accept the Chinese 'offer', or you will come up to that by yourself?

 

[ESay]

This and that Ukraine is a democracy. Is it, by the way

I have said already that Ukraine is a puppet and failed state. Can such a state be a democracy?

 

[Zavulon]

What do you ask specifically? That Odesa will be included in Ukraine or that the US-China agreements will decide the result of the war?

If the latter, then it is realization that all security issues are all intertwined in the modern world. You can't view the Russia-Ukraine war as a separate issue between Russia and Ukraine, or even more widely as between Russia and the West. You can't view the China-Taiwan relations as a separate issue between two parts of China. And so on. And two world powers will have to balance this system by finding mutually acceptable terms of compromise.

I have a strong impression that China will be more than okay with a draw in the war in Ukraine. By a draw I mean Ukraine de facto recognizing occupied areas under the Russian rule (how large these areas will be depends on you), and a neutral status with 'no boots on the ground'. In exchange Ukraine will get a 'remaining' state with political system independent from Russia.

Really? I wouldn't say it's "impression", I rather think that it's just a "wishful-thinking". China doesn't care where exactly will be the border between Russia and Europe - at Don, at Dniepr, at Zbruch or at Visla. What is even more important, China isn't interested in the saving of European anti-Russian leverage somewhere in the West, they are rather interested in the reliable peace (i.e. peace without Ukraine) in Europe for both economical reasons (with the Russians tanks in the former Poland and Germany the remains of the EU will be more interested in the trading with China and Russia) and political ones (together Russia and China can more or less easily solve the problems of Taiwan separatists and Japan militarists).

The main obstacle here is the American establishment doesn't support this idea now. But I hope for some changes in November that will remove this obstacle.

Should I explain why Russia will have to accept the Chinese 'offer', or you will come up to that by yourself?

You see, Russia didn't care much about 'offers' from both EU and the USA. We can't care less about Chinese, Indian, Nigerian or Korean offers. Russia can agree with the existence of demilitarised, denazificated and truly neutral Ukraine. Russia won't agree with the existence of anti-Russian Ukraine, NATO or not NATO, Shanghai block or not Shanghai block. It's that simple. They can join us and help us, and then they'll be rewarded, or they can stay on other way, and then they'll be punished. They are smart guys those Chinamen, and they already made the right choice.

 

[ESay]

Really? I wouldn't say it's "impression", I rather think that it's just a "wishful-thinking". China doesn't care where exactly will be the border between Russia and Europe - at Don, at Dniepr, at Zbruch or at Visla. What is even more important, China isn't interested in the saving of European anti-Russian leverage somewhere in the West, they are rather interested in the reliable peace (i.e. peace without Ukraine) in Europe for both economical reasons (with the Russians tanks in the former Poland and Germany the remains of the EU will be more interested in the trading with China and Russia) and political ones (together Russia and China can more or less easily solve the problems of Taiwan separatists and Japan militarists).


You see, Russia didn't care much about 'offers' from both EU and the USA. We can't care less about Chinese, Indian, Nigerian or Korean offers. Russia can agree with the existence of demilitarised, denazificated and truly neutral Ukraine. Russia won't agree with the existence of anti-Russian Ukraine, NATO or not NATO, Shanghai block or not Shanghai block. It's that simple. They can join us and help us, and then they'll be rewarded, or they can stay on other way, and then they'll be punished. They are smart guys those Chinamen, and they already made the right choice.

Well, when I read or hear about Russian tanks in Poland and Germany, I just let it go. Because it is a lost cause. Your Russian bravado is quite irrational and has any meaning only for you in your bulb. But okay.

You can consider your state as 'a civilization in itself', a self-reliant stronghold and other nonsense. But in reality it is an export-oriented base of natural resources, with China, India and Turkey being the most important gates of your 'parallel' exports and imports now. And of course the Putin regime understands this, no matter what it pours into your ears.

Yeah, the Chinese are far from stupid. And one of their main conceptions is the golden mean. The one you Russians are totally lack of. No one is interested in too strong Russia.

But basically I agree. For now, there isn't too much to discuss. Impressions, feelings are quite fragile base.

 

[Zavulon]

Well, when I read or hear about Russian tanks in Poland and Germany, I just let it go. Because it is a lost cause. Your Russian bravado is quite irrational and has any meaning only for you in your bulb. But okay.

You can consider your state as 'a civilization in itself', a self-reliant stronghold and other nonsense.

Actually, the most popular opinion that Russia is not just 'a civilization', but rather 'the last stronghold of humanity'.

But in reality it is an export-oriented base of natural resources, with China, India and Turkey being the most important gates of your 'parallel' exports and imports now. And of course the Putin regime understands this, no matter what it pours into your ears.

Reality is that it is much better (from our point of view) to kill all Germans and live without, say, German cars, than allow them to kill us (directly or by their proxies) and don't live at all.
Of course, peaceful coexistence without discrimination, abuse and genocide and with undivided safety for everyone would've be much better, but it was their choice.

Yeah, the Chinese are far from stupid. And one of their main conceptions is the golden mean. The one you Russians are totally lack of. No one is interested in too strong Russia.

China is interested. They need to retake Taiwan and be protected from American strikes. Also, they don't want to really stay between us and our enemies.

But basically I agree. For now, there isn't too much to discuss. Impressions, feelings are quite fragile base.

Sure. But what we can discuss, is actual capabilities in different scenarios.

 

[ESay]

Actually, the most popular opinion that Russia is not just 'a civilization', but rather 'the last stronghold of humanity

Yeah, don't forget to put on basthoes first.

Reality is that it is much better (from our point of view) to kill all Germans and live without, say, German cars, than allow them to kill us (directly or by their proxies) and don't live at all.
Of course, peaceful coexistence without discrimination, abuse and genocide and with undivided safety for everyone would've be much better, but it was their choice

The MAD conception exists to make sure you will disappear together with the Germans.

China is interested. They need to retake Taiwan and be protected from American strikes. Also, they don't want to really stay between us and our enemies

Okay.

Sure. But what we can discuss, is actual capabilities in different scenarios

Yes, we can discuss that. I already expressed my opinion, you did yours. What is left is to wait and see.

 

[Zavulon]

The MAD conception exists to make sure you will disappear together with the Germans.

As far as I know, the Germans do not possess any nuclear weapons at all.
And, I can't be certain, but America doesn't posses enough nukes for total elimination of Russia, either (especially if Russia attack first). So, if there is choice between a nuclear war (with pretty good chances to win), or being "decolonized" by the Fourth Reich (with no chances to survive), any sane person would prefer to fight and defend itself.

 

[ESay]

As far as I know, the Germans do not possess any nuclear weapons at all

See all of NATO as a common defence area.

And, I can't be certain, but America doesn't posses enough nukes for total elimination of Russia, either (especially if Russia attack first)

Of course it does. And the MAD conception exists exactly for that.

So, if there is choice between a nuclear war (with pretty good chances to win), or being "decolonized" by the Fourth Reich (with no chances to survive), any sane person would prefer to fight and defend itself

Jesus, what a load of nonsense. A nuclear war doesn’t suppose anyone would survive. Any sane person should have figured that out.

 

[Zavulon]

See all of NATO as a common defence area.

It's simply not true. There are different countries with different interests in NATO.
Anyway, if we are talking not about war "Russia vs Germany" but rather a war "BRICS+ vs NATO+" (AKA WWIII) the main battle will be between Russia and the USA, and, therefore, opinion of both Ukraine and Germany is pretty irrelevant.

Of course it does. And the MAD conception exists exactly for that.

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure, that MAD conception became obsole in early sixties or seventies.

Jesus, what a load of nonsense. A nuclear war doesn’t suppose anyone would survive. Any sane person should have figured that out.

It is just a fit of nucleophobia (and any phobia is insanity). The nuclear war may be terrible, but it definitely doesn't mean literal death of all and everyone on our planet. Even in worst of sane scenarios Russia won't lose more than 20 million civilians. Highly likely, we'll lost much less.

 

[AHZ]

If the US were in a similar situation, would you be pushing surrender?

do you often pretend you're other nations?

is that helpful?

is the forever war machine the height of compassion?

interesting.

 

[Ringo]