Zone1 Is the Pope worthy of the title "Holy Father" just like God?

[Meriweather]

My Lord would not want me to kill him over and over.

That can never happen. Think about it. Jesus already offered himself as sacrifice. His was a perfect sacrifice and Catholics remember, point to, and celebrate Christ's sacrifice daily. What Christ did for us means that much to us. Think about it.

 

[Cougarbear]

I think you do kill him every day. But putting that aside these are his words. Not mine. You do not abide in him and he does not abide in you.

John 6:56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

Spiritually. I laid it out with truth and logic. You are sick thirsting after the flesh. It was an analogy. He even said as so when he used manna as the analogy. Cannibalism

 

[Cougarbear]

That can never happen. Think about it. Jesus already offered himself as sacrifice. His was a perfect sacrifice and Catholics remember, point to, and celebrate Christ's sacrifice daily. What Christ did for us means that much to us. Think about it.

The priests evey day pull the Christ off his throne to die over and over. Just analyze the priest’s words. And the proof is the false change to flesh and blood.

 

[Meriweather]

The priests evey day pull the Christ off his throne to die over and over. Just analyze the priest’s words. And the proof is the false change to flesh and blood.

This does not make any sense.

 

[Cougarbear]

This does not make any sense.

How does the bread become the body of Christ. He has to die and give you his body of flesh. Every time, Christ has to die again and again. What an eternal life. It's nonsense. The scripture used is what Jesus was saying while performing the Passover of the New and Everlasting Covenant. It did not change to actual flesh or blood as he had not died. It was only spiritually that they were receiving the atonement for their sins. From that point on, they were to institute the Sacrament Service for remembrance of the atoning sacrifice.

The question I ask you, when the Savior broke the bread and gave it to them, was it bread they put into their mouth or human flesh? When they drank the grape juice (wine) was it human blood they were drinking? No. Neither flesh or blood. And, by the way, why doesn't the members get to drink the wine? Only the priest does.

 

[Meriweather]

How does the bread become the body of Christ. He has to die and give you his body of flesh. Every time, Christ has to die again and again. What an eternal life. It's nonsense. The scripture used is what Jesus was saying while performing the Passover of the New and Everlasting Covenant. It did not change to actual flesh or blood as he had not died. It was only spiritually that they were receiving the atonement for their sins. From that point on, they were to institute the Sacrament Service for remembrance of the atoning sacrifice.

The question I ask you, when the Savior broke the bread and gave it to them, was it bread they put into their mouth or human flesh? When they drank the grape juice (wine) was it human blood they were drinking? No. Neither flesh or blood. And, by the way, why doesn't the members get to drink the wine? Only the priest does.

One can only believe what one is comfortable believing. Before his death, Jesus said, "This is my body..." So the first thing that doesn't make sense is your belief Jesus has to die again when he hadn't yet died when he said, "This is my body..."

I nourished two babies with my body, and how shocking I was able to do this without turning them into little cannibals. Jesus said he was nourishing us with his body and with his blood. We know that Jesus lives, so it is a living body with which he nourishes us. Perhaps you are aware that cannibals don't eat living bodies, but dead ones? Accusations of cannibalism simply won't fly.

Jesus told us what he was doing. Take him at his word or decide you know better and let him know what he "really" meant.

 

[Cougarbear]

One can only believe what one is comfortable believing. Before his death, Jesus said, "This is my body..." So the first thing that doesn't make sense is your belief Jesus has to die again when he hadn't yet died when he said, "This is my body..."

I nourished two babies with my body, and how shocking I was able to do this without turning them into little cannibals. Jesus said he was nourishing us with his body and with his blood. We know that Jesus lives, so it is a living body with which he nourishes us. Perhaps you are aware that cannibals don't eat living bodies, but dead ones? Accusations of cannibalism simply won't fly.

Jesus told us what he was doing. Take him at his word or decide you know better and let him know what he "really" meant.

You are equating mother’s milk with drinking blood of humans or animals? Nice try.

 

[Meriweather]

You are equating mother’s milk with drinking blood of humans or animals? Nice try.

I merely pointed out that a living body can nourish others without diminishing itself. Jesus' promise is that his body and blood can put life within us.

 

[Cougarbear]

I merely pointed out that a living body can nourish others without diminishing itself. Jesus' promise is that his body and blood can put life within us.

Again, the analogy doesn’t work. Mother’s milk is blessed by the Lord. Cannibalism is abominable by the Lord.

 

[Meriweather]

Again, the analogy doesn’t work. Mother’s milk is blessed by the Lord. Cannibalism is abominable by the Lord.

As noted before, one can only believe what one is comfortable believing. Its hilarious that you must also turn those who do believe in Christ's words into cannibals.

 

[ding]

Spiritually. I laid it out with truth and logic. You are sick thirsting after the flesh. It was an analogy. He even said as so when he used manna as the analogy. Cannibalism

You want to disregard the words of Jesus. That's on you. All I can tell you is that from personal experience there is no more powerful experience than partaking in death and resurrection with Christ by eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Very humbling and very uplifting all at the same time.

 

[Cougarbear]

As noted before, one can only believe what one is comfortable believing. Its hilarious that you must also turn those who do believe in Christ's words into cannibals.

It is what it is. It’s why that doctrine is false.

 

[Cougarbear]

You want to disregard the words of Jesus. That's on you. All I can tell you is that from personal experience there is no more powerful experience than partaking in death and resurrection with Christ by eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Very humbling and very uplifting all at the same time.

You aren’t eating or drinking anyone’s body. You are doing it in remembrance. Just as Jesus said. He would never teach to eat flesh and drink blood.

 

[Meriweather]

It is what it is. It’s why that doctrine is false.

Again, Catholics will continue to follow what Christ actually said, not Cougarbear telling us what Christ "really" meant. You have nothing for us.

 

[Cougarbear]

Again, Catholics will continue to follow what Christ actually said, not Cougarbear telling us what Christ "really" meant. You have nothing for us.

They aren’t is the point. He said “this bread.” It’s an analogy only. It wasn’t flesh. They ate bread.

 

[ding]

You aren’t eating or drinking anyone’s body. You are doing it in remembrance. Just as Jesus said. He would never teach to eat flesh and drink blood.

The flesh is of no avail. His words. It's the mystery of Christ. Very powerful.

 

[Cougarbear]

The flesh is of no avail. His words. It's the mystery of Christ. Very powerful.

Still no eating human flesh and drinking blood. It was said at a Passover and they ate bread and drank wine. And instructed to do this on the Sabbath in remembrance of the atonement and your baptism.

 

[ding]

Still no eating human flesh and drinking blood. It was said at a Passover and they ate bread and drank wine. And instructed to do this on the Sabbath in remembrance of the atonement and your baptism.

His words.

 

[Cougarbear]

His words.

His meaning is what is important. Did the actual bread change to actual flesh before they ate it? Did the wine change to blood before they drank it? No. Yet, he said those words meaning he was speaking spiritually about the upcoming atonement. They were speechless because they now realized what was going to happen to the Savior. And that our sins can be washed away and atoned for. Why baptism is essential is connected with the Sacraments. And, we are to do the Sacraments in remembrance of his atonement. His atonement and our faith saves us. Don’t need to pull Christ down and make him she’s flesh and blood thousands of times a day.

 

[ding]

His meaning is what is important. Did the actual bread change to actual flesh before they ate it? Did the wine change to blood before they drank it? No. Yet, he said those words meaning he was speaking spiritually about the upcoming atonement. They were speechless because they now realized what was going to happen to the Savior. And that our sins can be washed away and atoned for. Why baptism is essential is connected with the Sacraments. And, we are to do the Sacraments in remembrance of his atonement. His atonement and our faith saves us. Don’t need to pull Christ down and make him she’s flesh and blood thousands of times a day.

His words and meaning were clear. There was no confusion on his part. He's not giving you the option you are taking. That's on you.

John 6:25-66 tells us that after performing the miracle to feed the masses. Jesus tells them that he came down from heaven and is the bread of life. They grumble about this. He then proceeds to tell them that he was sent by God and reinforces that he is the bread of life. Jesus then shocks the crowd by telling them that the bread is his flesh. The Jews argue over this. They give Jesus every opportunity to soften his statement; to make his statement more symbolic. What does Jesus do? He doubles down. He tells them in very explicit terms that unless they eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood they won't have life in them. So what do many of them do? They leave because they found it offensive.

John 6:25-66

Jesus the Bread of Life
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.