Is Pain And Suffering The Only Way To Convince Atheists That God Exists?

[Skull Pilot]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Oh, so your God of Love will inflict pain and suffering to prove he exists? Wow, that kind of compassion is astounding.

Are you wishing for atheists to have God inflict all this pain & suffering on them?

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

 

[Skull Pilot]

 

[james bond]

Tough to tell them apart, and either way, I don't have proof that any of them actually exist.

Hey, I'm open to anything. When I become convinced of something, I'll run with it.
.

There is no evidence that the Norse gods exist, for example. It is mythology. There is plenty of evidence that people worshipped the Norse gods, but no historical evidence for their existence.

There is historical evidence for the man Jesus Christ, however, that historians accept. Most historians accept the existence of a man named Jesus. They do not accept the existence of god named Odin, just for starters. So you can start with that.

I'm not on any kind of search. If something presents itself, great. Until then, I'm perfectly comfy assuming that I'll never know The Answer.
.

That seems incurious, doesn't it?

Well, I have great curiosity in science and space exploration, and I pay quite a bit of attention to that. If I watch one thing on teevee more than anything else, it's that topic.

Religion seems pretty static to me. I don't see a lot that makes me curious. But science? I'm very hopeful many great discoveries will be made during my lifetime.
.

I like science as a passing habit and space too. I'm not in the sciences though. But the bigger we expect science to be in our lives, it seems, the bigger the mistakes seem to be.

Today's science is secular or atheist science. They systematically eliminate God, the supernatural (Genesis) and the Bible (as hypothesis). That's not science the way I learned it. Any hypothesis is valid if you can back it up using science. For example, the universe is shaped like that of a scroll. In 2015, we found that it was flat like the flat part of the scroll. Curved edges and bounded are yet to be determined.

 

[james bond]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Oh, so your God of Love will inflict pain and suffering to prove he exists? Wow, that kind of compassion is astounding.

Are you wishing for atheists to have God inflict all this pain & suffering on them?

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Oh, so your God of Love will inflict pain and suffering to prove he exists? Wow, that kind of compassion is astounding.

Are you wishing for atheists to have God inflict all this pain & suffering on them?

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

Of course he is since he killed those people for no other reason than they offended him somehow

If I was going to worship a god I would at least expect him to follow his own laws for example

Thou Shall not kill

 

[night_son]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Oh, so your God of Love will inflict pain and suffering to prove he exists? Wow, that kind of compassion is astounding.

Are you wishing for atheists to have God inflict all this pain & suffering on them?

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

Of course he is since he killed those people for no other reason than they offended him somehow

If I was going to worship a god I would at least expect him to follow his own laws for example

Thou Shall not kill

Men kill other men. God practices wrath as consequence out of love and regret for his children's behavior. God is the Father, we are the children. God given free will comes with the heavy bedrock of personal responsibility and consequence for action. We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner. What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided. Just remember, God does not require you to believe in him verbally. He believes in you.; the proof is in all of us being alive. The belief is indelibly already in your genes; that realization dawns on us all, sooner or later.

God loves but is not a force or being of love. Free will, while independent of God's own actions, from time to time exceeds God (the Father's) tolerance for seeing his children slaughter each other--in their own human names, for their own desires, not His. "Killing in the name of . . . " is not doing so in God's name, but man in man's name. When a Jihadist blows himself up in a crowded bazaar or on embassy steps or FOB front door, he might think he is doing so in his false God's name, but he is wrong. He is doing it in the name of other men, in war, as an act of psychological terror.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Oh, so your God of Love will inflict pain and suffering to prove he exists? Wow, that kind of compassion is astounding.

Are you wishing for atheists to have God inflict all this pain & suffering on them?

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

Of course he is since he killed those people for no other reason than they offended him somehow

If I was going to worship a god I would at least expect him to follow his own laws for example

Thou Shall not kill

Men kill other men. God practices wrath as consequence out of love and regret for his children's behavior. God is the Father, we are the children. God given free will comes with the heavy bedrock of personal responsibility and consequence for action. We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner. What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided. Just remember, God does not require you to believe in him verbally. He believes in you.; the proof is in all of us being alive. The belief is indelibly already in your genes; that realization dawns on us all, sooner or later.

God loves but is not a force or being of love. Free will, while independent of God's own actions, from time to time exceeds God (the Father's) tolerance for seeing his children slaughter each other--in their own human names, for their own desires, not His. "Killing in the name of . . . " is not doing so in God's name, but man in man's name. When a Jihadist blows himself up in a crowded bazaar or on embassy steps or FOB front door, he might think he is doing so in his false God's name, but he is wrong. He is doing it in the name of other men, in war, as an act of psychological terror.

Funny I love my dogs but I don't kill them willy nilly every time they misbehave
Guess I love my dogs more than god loves his creations

Would you kill your kids out of love?

 

[night_son]

Oh, so your God of Love will inflict pain and suffering to prove he exists? Wow, that kind of compassion is astounding.

Are you wishing for atheists to have God inflict all this pain & suffering on them?

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

Of course he is since he killed those people for no other reason than they offended him somehow

If I was going to worship a god I would at least expect him to follow his own laws for example

Thou Shall not kill

Men kill other men. God practices wrath as consequence out of love and regret for his children's behavior. God is the Father, we are the children. God given free will comes with the heavy bedrock of personal responsibility and consequence for action. We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner. What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided. Just remember, God does not require you to believe in him verbally. He believes in you.; the proof is in all of us being alive. The belief is indelibly already in your genes; that realization dawns on us all, sooner or later.

God loves but is not a force or being of love. Free will, while independent of God's own actions, from time to time exceeds God (the Father's) tolerance for seeing his children slaughter each other--in their own human names, for their own desires, not His. "Killing in the name of . . . " is not doing so in God's name, but man in man's name. When a Jihadist blows himself up in a crowded bazaar or on embassy steps or FOB front door, he might think he is doing so in his false God's name, but he is wrong. He is doing it in the name of other men, in war, as an act of psychological terror.

Funny I love my dogs but I don't kill them willy nilly every time they misbehave
Guess I love my dogs more than god loves his creations

Would you kill your kids out of love?

Respectfully, you missed it . . . all of it.

"We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner."

"What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided."

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let's not forget the god these people worship is responsible for an untold number of murders including children all committed in a snit because he wasn't being worshiped properly

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

Of course he is since he killed those people for no other reason than they offended him somehow

If I was going to worship a god I would at least expect him to follow his own laws for example

Thou Shall not kill

Men kill other men. God practices wrath as consequence out of love and regret for his children's behavior. God is the Father, we are the children. God given free will comes with the heavy bedrock of personal responsibility and consequence for action. We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner. What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided. Just remember, God does not require you to believe in him verbally. He believes in you.; the proof is in all of us being alive. The belief is indelibly already in your genes; that realization dawns on us all, sooner or later.

God loves but is not a force or being of love. Free will, while independent of God's own actions, from time to time exceeds God (the Father's) tolerance for seeing his children slaughter each other--in their own human names, for their own desires, not His. "Killing in the name of . . . " is not doing so in God's name, but man in man's name. When a Jihadist blows himself up in a crowded bazaar or on embassy steps or FOB front door, he might think he is doing so in his false God's name, but he is wrong. He is doing it in the name of other men, in war, as an act of psychological terror.

Funny I love my dogs but I don't kill them willy nilly every time they misbehave
Guess I love my dogs more than god loves his creations

Would you kill your kids out of love?

Respectfully, you missed it . . . all of it.

"We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner."

"What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided."

Killing someone is not disciplining.

And why do you use the most extreme example. And the answer is if I had a kid and he went on a murder spree I'd be the first person to drop a dime to the cops. That is not the same as killing that kid with my own hands

God kills people if they piss him off for any reason and he often killed people who didn't do a damn thing they just happened to be in the way while he smote the people who pissed him off

We are never going to agree here

Even if there was a god as the bible says ( I don't believe there is) I would spurn him for his killing

 

[night_son]

God kills people, but is not a murderer.

Of course he is since he killed those people for no other reason than they offended him somehow

If I was going to worship a god I would at least expect him to follow his own laws for example

Thou Shall not kill

Men kill other men. God practices wrath as consequence out of love and regret for his children's behavior. God is the Father, we are the children. God given free will comes with the heavy bedrock of personal responsibility and consequence for action. We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner. What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided. Just remember, God does not require you to believe in him verbally. He believes in you.; the proof is in all of us being alive. The belief is indelibly already in your genes; that realization dawns on us all, sooner or later.

God loves but is not a force or being of love. Free will, while independent of God's own actions, from time to time exceeds God (the Father's) tolerance for seeing his children slaughter each other--in their own human names, for their own desires, not His. "Killing in the name of . . . " is not doing so in God's name, but man in man's name. When a Jihadist blows himself up in a crowded bazaar or on embassy steps or FOB front door, he might think he is doing so in his false God's name, but he is wrong. He is doing it in the name of other men, in war, as an act of psychological terror.

Funny I love my dogs but I don't kill them willy nilly every time they misbehave
Guess I love my dogs more than god loves his creations

Would you kill your kids out of love?

Respectfully, you missed it . . . all of it.

"We discipline our own children in a philosophically identical manner."

"What would each of us, as parents do, if one or more of our children went on homicidal sprees throughout the neighborhood? Call the police? Un-create them personally? Detain them? Or, perhaps, let them off scot free while they continue to kill? Perhaps we'd wipe them out and start over? Later, perhaps we'd devise a way for our children to be forgiven and given eternal life, forgiven for any crime, if they come to us and do their best to follow a path to the salvation from consequence we've provided."

Killing someone is not disciplining.

And why do you use the most extreme example. And the answer is if I had a kid and he went on a murder spree I'd be the first person to drop a dime to the cops. That is not the same as killing that kid with my own hands

God kills people if they piss him off for any reason and he often killed people who didn't do a damn thing they just happened to be in the way while he smote the people who pissed him off

We are never going to agree here

Even if there was a god as the bible says ( I don't believe there is) I would spurn him for his killing

Thanks. I agree to disagree with you in spirit. We must each follow our own path, and accordingly, decide when to veer from its course.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

So you're saying that because we feel pain, which is literally a way of our body telling our brain something's gone wrong, that God exists?

You know the Venus fly trap plants. Well, they react to flies, does this "prove that God exists" too?

I'm just waiting to tell me why if God has to exist because things are so complex and nothing can just appear out of nowhere, why God apparently appeared out of nowhere and who created this God.

Well, I was looking at it from the pov as a Christian that atheists want *proof* of God before they believe he exists. However, there won't be any proof because God stated that we have to have faith that he exists.

Lawrence Krauss said in the debate with Craig that he'll reconsider if a miracle occurred of the stars aligning to spell, "I'm here" or something to that effect. However, an astute atheist claimed that that isn't enough. The atheists in the other half of the hemisphere to Arizona would not see it. I thought this atheist said the only thing intelligent about atheism, i.e. someone would have to convince every single atheist and not just one, a few or many.

As for your Venus Fly Trap analogy, that's a fly or insect and we do not know if it feels pain in the trap. However, let's say God captures it and tears off its wings one-at-a-time and then moves to the legs one-at-a-time. Will the fly be more likely to believe if it could could communicate at a rudimentary level that it was in pain and does believe? I mean in this world, what would convince every single fly that God exists and is showing his power?

So, you're basically saying you have no proof, but people should just accept what you say simply because you say it?

So you don't know if a fly feels pain, but you know God exists.

Why can't you just believe a fly feels pain the same way you believe God exists.

Whatever, we're not talking about the fly, but the plant. The plant will MOVE, which means the plant is receiving messages from other parts of the plant, which is the same as how we feel pain

You are all over the board and either deliberately do not understand what I said or are having reading comprehension problems. You are reducing what I said. I did not say that I have no proof. What I said was people have to have faith first.

I did not say a fly feels no pain. It should feel pain when its wings are ripped off or its legs are ripped off. Isn't that the purpose of making the fly believe you are more powerful, that you exist and do not like what its doing? Otherwise, ti will just go on its way and lay larvae in your food and bring germs into your environment. Your plant is a death trap. Bug spray is to cause pain and death. You can swat the fly or use sticky fly paper as a death trap.

As for the plant, it's seeking food. The fly and other insects are its food. So, my analogy is better than yours.

What I said was one has to have faith in the God of Christianity. What happens after that is he will reveal himself and you will find the truth.

Now, what is the point of the plant and its messages? It's isn't the same as how we feel pain, is it? Is that what you're claiming ha ha?

No, I read what you wrote perfectly.

When you write "However, there won't be any proof" it kind of makes people think that you don't have any proof. I mean, that is basically what you said, right?

Yes, people have to have faith first. They have to be willing to believe, to accept what they've been told and not to bother with the mumbojumbo of actually having evidence of things.

Why do you think someone like Trump does really well in a country like the US where 3/4 people are religious to some extent?

Because they've already had their minds open to accepting complete crap that someone told them and reinforces what they want to believe, and to easily reject that which is real because it's not convenient.

So flies might feel pain. Probably do, I mean pain is merely a communication from one part of the body to another. So what? It doesn't prove anything to do with any god in any way. It merely means their body communicates with its brain.



So, your argument is that first you have to have the faith to then believe in the god. That if you're not into faith, then you're never going to believe in god because, quite frankly, he's made up.

I mean, you have to be open to made up shit in order to be open to God. Is that more or less your argument?

Yes, what the fuck is the point of the whole message thing with flies and plants? It's your shitty argument here about pain proving the existence of God, somehow. I didn't get it.

 

[SweetSue92]

How funny. So you have religious belief in Science and in the Resistance. LOL

Not at all.

I don't believe. I accept the possibilities that are out there.

For example: We could potentially be a computer simulation.

But that doesn't change science. Science is the rules of whatever it is we're living in. There are rules and we know it. We can see kids testing these rules. Seeing what happens and what doesn't happen. You jump in the air, you know you're going to fall down. The scientists say this is called "gravity".

Doesn't matter the label. It's something we understand. Then as we get older we know satellites are floating around in space, that rockets with lots of fuel put them there. We have telecommunications that tell us the planet is round, and by going to different places we know that down is not pointing in the same direction in terms of the sun, or the galaxy or whatever, but in terms of the center of the Earth.

It's stuff we know because we experience it every day. There's other science we trust others to tell the truth, but most of that is so complex we don't actually need to know the rules. A little child doesn't need to know the rules of soccer in order to kick a ball.

Of course. They're nice rules. They're great actually. But religion can be an article of worship or something to which someone puts extreme importance. Science is just a quest to figure out how things work. If that something that you think you should worship--or that will give you all the answer to all of life's questions--well there you are.

The Trump thing--that's the moral question since 2016. People are measuring their morality, and others, based on Trump. That's how utterly lost we are. I just wake up every day and shake my head, I do.

Imagine giving over your human agency, your moral compass, to a real estate tycoon from New York who became president. I never would. But you do you, as the kids say.

Religion can be different things to different people, as can science. Science is about logic, religion is about make belief.

Ricky Gervais said. If you burned all the books, science books would be written again the same, but religious books would be different every time.

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

So what does it prove when religious people are doing whatever they like?

Get this, the top something like 40 countries in the world for murder rate are all Christian, or maybe one not so Christian country in there. The top 50 cities for murder are all in Christian countries.

Go figure.

Okay this right here is a religious statement:

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

Social Justice is your religion then, with a side dish of Secular Science thrown in. The "voting for Trump" thing as amoral is just strange, as strange as you think Christianity is, but even stranger to be honest. That it doesn't occur to you as strange should probably jar you a little bit.

And how is that a religious statement? It feels like this isn't going to end well.

Religion is religion. Why do you go around insisting that everyone has a religion in something, regardless?

The whole voting for Trump thing is because the guy has cheated on multiple wives, fucks around, lies, cheats, cons and does all manner of things which aren't very Christian.

You get gay people being ostracized by Christians among others, but the Bible is a little more clear on adulterers, and yet they voted for a guy who goes against all that, but they would never dare vote for a gay person because they're all a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I sat down with a gay person at my kitchen table last night. I'm sure you don't believe me but I don't care if you do or do not.

The difference between homosexuality/ abortion and the other sins is that society wants Christians to assert them as NOT sinful. THAT is the issue. Very few people say Donald Trump's affairs should be accepted as good or even "right" or "beautiful"--and yet that's what people say about homosexuality..."love is love". I might certainly vote for a gay conservative IF he or she were not advocating for homosexuality as a "beautiful" lifestyle choice that we should all be forced to attend or bake cakes for.

Remember that going forward.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not at all.

I don't believe. I accept the possibilities that are out there.

For example: We could potentially be a computer simulation.

But that doesn't change science. Science is the rules of whatever it is we're living in. There are rules and we know it. We can see kids testing these rules. Seeing what happens and what doesn't happen. You jump in the air, you know you're going to fall down. The scientists say this is called "gravity".

Doesn't matter the label. It's something we understand. Then as we get older we know satellites are floating around in space, that rockets with lots of fuel put them there. We have telecommunications that tell us the planet is round, and by going to different places we know that down is not pointing in the same direction in terms of the sun, or the galaxy or whatever, but in terms of the center of the Earth.

It's stuff we know because we experience it every day. There's other science we trust others to tell the truth, but most of that is so complex we don't actually need to know the rules. A little child doesn't need to know the rules of soccer in order to kick a ball.

Of course. They're nice rules. They're great actually. But religion can be an article of worship or something to which someone puts extreme importance. Science is just a quest to figure out how things work. If that something that you think you should worship--or that will give you all the answer to all of life's questions--well there you are.

The Trump thing--that's the moral question since 2016. People are measuring their morality, and others, based on Trump. That's how utterly lost we are. I just wake up every day and shake my head, I do.

Imagine giving over your human agency, your moral compass, to a real estate tycoon from New York who became president. I never would. But you do you, as the kids say.

Religion can be different things to different people, as can science. Science is about logic, religion is about make belief.

Ricky Gervais said. If you burned all the books, science books would be written again the same, but religious books would be different every time.

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

So what does it prove when religious people are doing whatever they like?

Get this, the top something like 40 countries in the world for murder rate are all Christian, or maybe one not so Christian country in there. The top 50 cities for murder are all in Christian countries.

Go figure.

Okay this right here is a religious statement:

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

Social Justice is your religion then, with a side dish of Secular Science thrown in. The "voting for Trump" thing as amoral is just strange, as strange as you think Christianity is, but even stranger to be honest. That it doesn't occur to you as strange should probably jar you a little bit.

And how is that a religious statement? It feels like this isn't going to end well.

Religion is religion. Why do you go around insisting that everyone has a religion in something, regardless?

The whole voting for Trump thing is because the guy has cheated on multiple wives, fucks around, lies, cheats, cons and does all manner of things which aren't very Christian.

You get gay people being ostracized by Christians among others, but the Bible is a little more clear on adulterers, and yet they voted for a guy who goes against all that, but they would never dare vote for a gay person because they're all a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I sat down with a gay person at my kitchen table last night. I'm sure you don't believe me but I don't care if you do or do not.

The difference between homosexuality/ abortion and the other sins is that society wants Christians to assert them as NOT sinful. THAT is the issue. Very few people say Donald Trump's affairs should be accepted as good or even "right" or "beautiful"--and yet that's what people say about homosexuality..."love is love". I might certainly vote for a gay conservative IF he or she were not advocating for homosexuality as a "beautiful" lifestyle choice that we should all be forced to attend or bake cakes for.

Remember that going forward.

Ah, the good old "I've spoken to a gay person, so I'm not anti-gay" kind of argument. Let me guess, you also have a black friend.

 

[hobelim]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

So you're saying that because we feel pain, which is literally a way of our body telling our brain something's gone wrong, that God exists?

You know the Venus fly trap plants. Well, they react to flies, does this "prove that God exists" too?

I'm just waiting to tell me why if God has to exist because things are so complex and nothing can just appear out of nowhere, why God apparently appeared out of nowhere and who created this God.

Well, I was looking at it from the pov as a Christian that atheists want *proof* of God before they believe he exists. However, there won't be any proof because God stated that we have to have faith that he exists.

Lawrence Krauss said in the debate with Craig that he'll reconsider if a miracle occurred of the stars aligning to spell, "I'm here" or something to that effect. However, an astute atheist claimed that that isn't enough. The atheists in the other half of the hemisphere to Arizona would not see it. I thought this atheist said the only thing intelligent about atheism, i.e. someone would have to convince every single atheist and not just one, a few or many.

As for your Venus Fly Trap analogy, that's a fly or insect and we do not know if it feels pain in the trap. However, let's say God captures it and tears off its wings one-at-a-time and then moves to the legs one-at-a-time. Will the fly be more likely to believe if it could could communicate at a rudimentary level that it was in pain and does believe? I mean in this world, what would convince every single fly that God exists and is showing his power?

So, you're basically saying you have no proof, but people should just accept what you say simply because you say it?

So you don't know if a fly feels pain, but you know God exists.

Why can't you just believe a fly feels pain the same way you believe God exists.

Whatever, we're not talking about the fly, but the plant. The plant will MOVE, which means the plant is receiving messages from other parts of the plant, which is the same as how we feel pain

You are all over the board and either deliberately do not understand what I said or are having reading comprehension problems. You are reducing what I said. I did not say that I have no proof. What I said was people have to have faith first.

I did not say a fly feels no pain. It should feel pain when its wings are ripped off or its legs are ripped off. Isn't that the purpose of making the fly believe you are more powerful, that you exist and do not like what its doing? Otherwise, ti will just go on its way and lay larvae in your food and bring germs into your environment. Your plant is a death trap. Bug spray is to cause pain and death. You can swat the fly or use sticky fly paper as a death trap.

As for the plant, it's seeking food. The fly and other insects are its food. So, my analogy is better than yours.

What I said was one has to have faith in the God of Christianity. What happens after that is he will reveal himself and you will find the truth.

Now, what is the point of the plant and its messages? It's isn't the same as how we feel pain, is it? Is that what you're claiming ha ha?

No, I read what you wrote perfectly.

When you write "However, there won't be any proof" it kind of makes people think that you don't have any proof. I mean, that is basically what you said, right?

Yes, people have to have faith first. They have to be willing to believe, to accept what they've been told and not to bother with the mumbojumbo of actually having evidence of things.

Why do you think someone like Trump does really well in a country like the US where 3/4 people are religious to some extent?

Because they've already had their minds open to accepting complete crap that someone told them and reinforces what they want to believe, and to easily reject that which is real because it's not convenient.

So flies might feel pain. Probably do, I mean pain is merely a communication from one part of the body to another. So what? It doesn't prove anything to do with any god in any way. It merely means their body communicates with its brain.



So, your argument is that first you have to have the faith to then believe in the god. That if you're not into faith, then you're never going to believe in god because, quite frankly, he's made up.

I mean, you have to be open to made up shit in order to be open to God. Is that more or less your argument?

Yes, what the fuck is the point of the whole message thing with flies and plants? It's your shitty argument here about pain proving the existence of God, somehow. I didn't get it.

I agree that God as defined by the OP, a God whose existence cannot be proven or verified, does not exist, but do you accept the possibility that there is a God that would account for esoteric biblical reports of a superior being whose existence is absolute that is unknown and unverifiable because people, believers and unbelievers alike, have misunderstood scripture creating a false image and likeness of God?

I mean if people gave a bizarre description of a criminal to a police sketch artist they could look and look for the perpetrator till the end of the world and never finds anyone who matches that false image and if they ever did it wouldn't be the right person.....

 

[SweetSue92]

Of course. They're nice rules. They're great actually. But religion can be an article of worship or something to which someone puts extreme importance. Science is just a quest to figure out how things work. If that something that you think you should worship--or that will give you all the answer to all of life's questions--well there you are.

The Trump thing--that's the moral question since 2016. People are measuring their morality, and others, based on Trump. That's how utterly lost we are. I just wake up every day and shake my head, I do.

Imagine giving over your human agency, your moral compass, to a real estate tycoon from New York who became president. I never would. But you do you, as the kids say.

Religion can be different things to different people, as can science. Science is about logic, religion is about make belief.

Ricky Gervais said. If you burned all the books, science books would be written again the same, but religious books would be different every time.

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

So what does it prove when religious people are doing whatever they like?

Get this, the top something like 40 countries in the world for murder rate are all Christian, or maybe one not so Christian country in there. The top 50 cities for murder are all in Christian countries.

Go figure.

Okay this right here is a religious statement:

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

Social Justice is your religion then, with a side dish of Secular Science thrown in. The "voting for Trump" thing as amoral is just strange, as strange as you think Christianity is, but even stranger to be honest. That it doesn't occur to you as strange should probably jar you a little bit.

And how is that a religious statement? It feels like this isn't going to end well.

Religion is religion. Why do you go around insisting that everyone has a religion in something, regardless?

The whole voting for Trump thing is because the guy has cheated on multiple wives, fucks around, lies, cheats, cons and does all manner of things which aren't very Christian.

You get gay people being ostracized by Christians among others, but the Bible is a little more clear on adulterers, and yet they voted for a guy who goes against all that, but they would never dare vote for a gay person because they're all a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I sat down with a gay person at my kitchen table last night. I'm sure you don't believe me but I don't care if you do or do not.

The difference between homosexuality/ abortion and the other sins is that society wants Christians to assert them as NOT sinful. THAT is the issue. Very few people say Donald Trump's affairs should be accepted as good or even "right" or "beautiful"--and yet that's what people say about homosexuality..."love is love". I might certainly vote for a gay conservative IF he or she were not advocating for homosexuality as a "beautiful" lifestyle choice that we should all be forced to attend or bake cakes for.

Remember that going forward.

Ah, the good old "I've spoken to a gay person, so I'm not anti-gay" kind of argument. Let me guess, you also have a black friend.

You have the argument in reverse: "you can't have a gay friend because you think they're sinning".

I have gay family and gay friends. I think they're sinning, yep. Also so am I, try as I might not to. Also, everyone is a sinner.

My life is so tolerant it would blow your mind. The Church of Social Justice and Trump Resistance really has NO IDEA of what Jesus meant when He said, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (John 10:10) What you all have is a religion of absolute mob mentality and towing the line, and if you fail, there is no help for it. Banished to the ninth circle of Hell, no absolution, no forgiveness, no mercy. Just lynch mobs and shaming.

IOW, just another human religion built for the self-righteous. Well done.

You can have it. Hard pass.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Threads such as this which fail as both loaded question and strawman fallacies demonstrate that theists aren't very bright.

 

[night_son]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Threads such as this which fail as both loaded question and strawman fallacies demonstrate that theists aren't very bright.

And yet the brilliance of such a thread attracted you, moth-like.

 

[hobelim]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

Threads such as this which fail as both loaded question and strawman fallacies demonstrate that theists aren't very bright.

And yet the brilliance of such a thread attracted you, moth-like.

lol.

when a person starts gibbering incoherently cutting themselves with sharp objects and running amok howling at the moon in the graveyard someone has to break out the straight jacket.

 

[BreezeWood]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

.

The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

the path to their existence and the Everlasting is available for all who would follow the religion of Antiquity and Triumph as prescribed.

What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

what you need to do is add footnotes to your 4th century bible that the character you describe in your book is not the same as the one that was crucified in the 1st century and stop stealing from the original religion of Antiquity prescribed by the Almighty and seek forgiveness for your transgression against their religion.

and also that it does not matter whether a person is religious, an atheist or anything else but simply to follow the prescribed path is all that is required for Admission to the Everlasting. -

there is no christ, get over it.

 

[night_son]

So you're saying that because we feel pain, which is literally a way of our body telling our brain something's gone wrong, that God exists?

You know the Venus fly trap plants. Well, they react to flies, does this "prove that God exists" too?

I'm just waiting to tell me why if God has to exist because things are so complex and nothing can just appear out of nowhere, why God apparently appeared out of nowhere and who created this God.

Well, I was looking at it from the pov as a Christian that atheists want *proof* of God before they believe he exists. However, there won't be any proof because God stated that we have to have faith that he exists.

Lawrence Krauss said in the debate with Craig that he'll reconsider if a miracle occurred of the stars aligning to spell, "I'm here" or something to that effect. However, an astute atheist claimed that that isn't enough. The atheists in the other half of the hemisphere to Arizona would not see it. I thought this atheist said the only thing intelligent about atheism, i.e. someone would have to convince every single atheist and not just one, a few or many.

As for your Venus Fly Trap analogy, that's a fly or insect and we do not know if it feels pain in the trap. However, let's say God captures it and tears off its wings one-at-a-time and then moves to the legs one-at-a-time. Will the fly be more likely to believe if it could could communicate at a rudimentary level that it was in pain and does believe? I mean in this world, what would convince every single fly that God exists and is showing his power?

So, you're basically saying you have no proof, but people should just accept what you say simply because you say it?

So you don't know if a fly feels pain, but you know God exists.

Why can't you just believe a fly feels pain the same way you believe God exists.

Whatever, we're not talking about the fly, but the plant. The plant will MOVE, which means the plant is receiving messages from other parts of the plant, which is the same as how we feel pain

You are all over the board and either deliberately do not understand what I said or are having reading comprehension problems. You are reducing what I said. I did not say that I have no proof. What I said was people have to have faith first.

I did not say a fly feels no pain. It should feel pain when its wings are ripped off or its legs are ripped off. Isn't that the purpose of making the fly believe you are more powerful, that you exist and do not like what its doing? Otherwise, ti will just go on its way and lay larvae in your food and bring germs into your environment. Your plant is a death trap. Bug spray is to cause pain and death. You can swat the fly or use sticky fly paper as a death trap.

As for the plant, it's seeking food. The fly and other insects are its food. So, my analogy is better than yours.

What I said was one has to have faith in the God of Christianity. What happens after that is he will reveal himself and you will find the truth.

Now, what is the point of the plant and its messages? It's isn't the same as how we feel pain, is it? Is that what you're claiming ha ha?

No, I read what you wrote perfectly.

When you write "However, there won't be any proof" it kind of makes people think that you don't have any proof. I mean, that is basically what you said, right?

Yes, people have to have faith first. They have to be willing to believe, to accept what they've been told and not to bother with the mumbojumbo of actually having evidence of things.

Why do you think someone like Trump does really well in a country like the US where 3/4 people are religious to some extent?

Because they've already had their minds open to accepting complete crap that someone told them and reinforces what they want to believe, and to easily reject that which is real because it's not convenient.

So flies might feel pain. Probably do, I mean pain is merely a communication from one part of the body to another. So what? It doesn't prove anything to do with any god in any way. It merely means their body communicates with its brain.



So, your argument is that first you have to have the faith to then believe in the god. That if you're not into faith, then you're never going to believe in god because, quite frankly, he's made up.

I mean, you have to be open to made up shit in order to be open to God. Is that more or less your argument?

Yes, what the fuck is the point of the whole message thing with flies and plants? It's your shitty argument here about pain proving the existence of God, somehow. I didn't get it.

I agree that God as defined by the OP, a God whose existence cannot be proven or verified, does not exist, but do you accept the possibility that there is a God that would account for esoteric biblical reports of a superior being whose existence is absolute that is unknown and unverifiable because people, believers and unbelievers alike, have misunderstood scripture creating a false image and likeness of God?

I mean if people gave a bizarre description of a criminal to a police sketch artist they could look and look for the perpetrator till the end of the world and never finds anyone who matches that false image and if they ever did it wouldn't be the right person.....

This one ^^ is crafty. He would have the believer-in-doubt misbelieve that the Word of God is something to be found only outside the mind and body--a physical object, same as a criminal who must be located by vague description. When in Truth, God's Word and Being lie within us, and without. Attempts to send Christians who want to believe again off on a wild goose chase/snipe hunt for Spirit and Faith where neither will ever be found are common enough attempts used to shake young minds free from God's Word. Perhaps Kindergarten is the place you should peddle your wares, although, the strength of young faith could surprise you.