Is Pain And Suffering The Only Way To Convince Atheists That God Exists?

[hobelim]

Alright then..

God has given all rational people the green light to pay you back in your own coin..

How do you like them apples?

Fine with me. I know how to fight. Also, use my thumbs to grab a gun and shoot accurately..

Well goody for you.

I have a gun that has no bullets and doesn't make any noise but will set your soul on fire.

You cannot defend yourself against what you cannot see or comprehend, the truth.

Goody for you, too, and your rounds with no bullets.

Have no idea what you are arguing? Which God do you refer to? Christian? Deist?

No idea? Thats a shame. And its only just begun...

Its going to be very humiliating and embarrassing for ya'll. But the people on whom your focus your hatred are going to laugh...

If you weren't such despicable spineless cowards full of corruption and a long history of doing evil on your permanent record, I would feel sorry for you.

Why would I be a coward *IF* pain and suffering is the truth that atheists want? Maybe God does that in the after life and not this life.

We already know that the Bible states that one has to have faith and that it takes courage to take the leap of faith? Maybe it takes courage to have faith.

When Jesus came along and told people that their leaders were corrupt money grubbing actors and lying frauds who cared about nothing but themselves, and that everything that they were taught to believe about God and their religious practices was false and had been for over a thousand years, it took faith to believe him even though what he said was a truth that they already knew deep inside. It wasn't anything that everyone didn't already know.

What he taught them that they didn't already know is what was the only right way to interpret and conform to the divine commands that reveals the wisdom of God and fulfills the promise of life.

To believe in Jesus meant walking a straight , narrow, and difficult path for the rest of their lives....It wasn't hard to believe him, it was hard to admit it and side with him openly. Just like now, there were real consequences for opposing evil.


Having faith is not about adopting an irrational belief in the ridiculous it is the belief in truth when the rest of the world professes a belief in lies and had consequently gone completely insane.,

Like you said, having faith takes courage.

You have adopted an irrational belief in the ridiculous even though deep inside you already know its a lie.

Thats why you are a coward.

You actually have no faith.

 

[night_son]

Fine with me. I know how to fight. Also, use my thumbs to grab a gun and shoot accurately..

Well goody for you.

I have a gun that has no bullets and doesn't make any noise but will set your soul on fire.

You cannot defend yourself against what you cannot see or comprehend, the truth.

Goody for you, too, and your rounds with no bullets.

Have no idea what you are arguing? Which God do you refer to? Christian? Deist?

No idea? Thats a shame. And its only just begun...

Its going to be very humiliating and embarrassing for ya'll. But the people on whom your focus your hatred are going to laugh...

If you weren't such despicable spineless cowards full of corruption and a long history of doing evil on your permanent record, I would feel sorry for you.

Why would I be a coward *IF* pain and suffering is the truth that atheists want? Maybe God does that in the after life and not this life.

We already know that the Bible states that one has to have faith and that it takes courage to take the leap of faith? Maybe it takes courage to have faith.

When Jesus came along and told people that their leaders were corrupt money grubbing actors and lying frauds who cared about nothing but themselves, and that everything that they were taught to believe about God and their religious practices was false and had been for over a thousand years, it took faith to believe him even though what he said was a truth that they already knew deep inside. It wasn't anything that everyone didn't already know.

What he taught them that they didn't already know is what was the only right way to interpret and conform to the divine commands that reveals the wisdom of God and fulfills the promise of life.

To believe in Jesus meant walking a straight , narrow, and difficult path for the rest of their lives....It wasn't hard to believe him, it was hard to admit it and side with him openly. Just like now, there were real consequences for opposing evil.


Having faith is not about adopting an irrational belief in the ridiculous it is the belief in truth when the rest of the world professes a belief in lies and had consequently gone completely insane.,

Like you said, having faith takes courage.

You have adopted an irrational belief in the ridiculous even though deep inside you already know its a lie.

Thats why you are a coward.

You actually have no faith.

A more obvious need for comfort of the pacifier of the OP's expression of doubt in his own faith could not be read in these words. The cowardice true is in your failure to verbally come back to faith without the training wheels of a fellow believer's doubt or reassurance.

 

[hobelim]

Well goody for you.

I have a gun that has no bullets and doesn't make any noise but will set your soul on fire.

You cannot defend yourself against what you cannot see or comprehend, the truth.

Goody for you, too, and your rounds with no bullets.

Have no idea what you are arguing? Which God do you refer to? Christian? Deist?

No idea? Thats a shame. And its only just begun...

Its going to be very humiliating and embarrassing for ya'll. But the people on whom your focus your hatred are going to laugh...

If you weren't such despicable spineless cowards full of corruption and a long history of doing evil on your permanent record, I would feel sorry for you.

Why would I be a coward *IF* pain and suffering is the truth that atheists want? Maybe God does that in the after life and not this life.

We already know that the Bible states that one has to have faith and that it takes courage to take the leap of faith? Maybe it takes courage to have faith.

When Jesus came along and told people that their leaders were corrupt money grubbing actors and lying frauds who cared about nothing but themselves, and that everything that they were taught to believe about God and their religious practices was false and had been for over a thousand years, it took faith to believe him even though what he said was a truth that they already knew deep inside. It wasn't anything that everyone didn't already know.

What he taught them that they didn't already know is what was the only right way to interpret and conform to the divine commands that reveals the wisdom of God and fulfills the promise of life.

To believe in Jesus meant walking a straight , narrow, and difficult path for the rest of their lives....It wasn't hard to believe him, it was hard to admit it and side with him openly. Just like now, there were real consequences for opposing evil.


Having faith is not about adopting an irrational belief in the ridiculous it is the belief in truth when the rest of the world professes a belief in lies and had consequently gone completely insane.,

Like you said, having faith takes courage.

You have adopted an irrational belief in the ridiculous even though deep inside you already know its a lie.

Thats why you are a coward.

You actually have no faith.

A more obvious need for comfort of the pacifier of the OP's expression of doubt in his own faith could not be read in these words. The cowardice true is in your failure to verbally come back to faith without the training wheels of a fellow believer's doubt or reassurance.

When people have become lost, for whatever reason, whether they have made great errors in their own speculations or whether they have been mislead, they don't need someone to coddle them, reassure them, or lie by telling them, "There, there, don't worry, everything is all right."

Everything is not all right.

they need to be pointed in the right direction and sent on their way to redemption with a swift kick in the butt.

Their lives and the quality of life for their children and their children's children is at stake.

 

[ding]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

If you rubes had actually provided evidence, you might have a point, but you haven't.

What evidence would you accept for something outside of space and time? And why is it other people's job to provide it to you? Are you waiting for something magical to happen?

No need to wait...

You have already been turned into a toad.

You openly proclaim that God can become a cheap snack food that has no life just because you believe...

You actually said this over and over again without even an inkling how insane that belief is....

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

 

[night_son]

Goody for you, too, and your rounds with no bullets.

Have no idea what you are arguing? Which God do you refer to? Christian? Deist?

No idea? Thats a shame. And its only just begun...

Its going to be very humiliating and embarrassing for ya'll. But the people on whom your focus your hatred are going to laugh...

If you weren't such despicable spineless cowards full of corruption and a long history of doing evil on your permanent record, I would feel sorry for you.

Why would I be a coward *IF* pain and suffering is the truth that atheists want? Maybe God does that in the after life and not this life.

We already know that the Bible states that one has to have faith and that it takes courage to take the leap of faith? Maybe it takes courage to have faith.

When Jesus came along and told people that their leaders were corrupt money grubbing actors and lying frauds who cared about nothing but themselves, and that everything that they were taught to believe about God and their religious practices was false and had been for over a thousand years, it took faith to believe him even though what he said was a truth that they already knew deep inside. It wasn't anything that everyone didn't already know.

What he taught them that they didn't already know is what was the only right way to interpret and conform to the divine commands that reveals the wisdom of God and fulfills the promise of life.

To believe in Jesus meant walking a straight , narrow, and difficult path for the rest of their lives....It wasn't hard to believe him, it was hard to admit it and side with him openly. Just like now, there were real consequences for opposing evil.


Having faith is not about adopting an irrational belief in the ridiculous it is the belief in truth when the rest of the world professes a belief in lies and had consequently gone completely insane.,

Like you said, having faith takes courage.

You have adopted an irrational belief in the ridiculous even though deep inside you already know its a lie.

Thats why you are a coward.

You actually have no faith.

A more obvious need for comfort of the pacifier of the OP's expression of doubt in his own faith could not be read in these words. The cowardice true is in your failure to verbally come back to faith without the training wheels of a fellow believer's doubt or reassurance.

When people have become lost, for whatever reason, whether they have made great errors in their own speculations or whether they have been mislead, they don't need someone to coddle them, reassure them, or lie by telling them, "There, there, don't worry, everything is all right."

Everything is not all right.

they need to be pointed in the right direction and sent on their way to redemption with a swift kick in the butt.

Their lives and the quality of life for their children and their children's children is at stake.

To achieve that make believe, first, you'd need a spiritual foot to administer it . . . come back, try again, after you've regained your feet, if you ever do . . .

 

[hobelim]

If you rubes had actually provided evidence, you might have a point, but you haven't.

What evidence would you accept for something outside of space and time? And why is it other people's job to provide it to you? Are you waiting for something magical to happen?

No need to wait...

You have already been turned into a toad.

You openly proclaim that God can become a cheap snack food that has no life just because you believe...

You actually said this over and over again without even an inkling how insane that belief is....

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words einstein.

 

[ding]

What evidence would you accept for something outside of space and time? And why is it other people's job to provide it to you? Are you waiting for something magical to happen?

No need to wait...

You have already been turned into a toad.

You openly proclaim that God can become a cheap snack food that has no life just because you believe...

You actually said this over and over again without even an inkling how insane that belief is....

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words.

Yes. Anyone whose theology tells them to go around telling other people they are going to hell has a bullshit theology.

 

[hobelim]

No need to wait...

You have already been turned into a toad.

You openly proclaim that God can become a cheap snack food that has no life just because you believe...

You actually said this over and over again without even an inkling how insane that belief is....

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words.

Yes. Anyone whose theology tells them to go around telling other people they are going to hell has a bullshit theology.

wow.


Did you never read the NT and what Jesus went around telling people who lied in the name of God?

Was Jesus running amok spreading bullshit theology, shit for brains?

 

[ding]

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words.

Yes. Anyone whose theology tells them to go around telling other people they are going to hell has a bullshit theology.

wow.


Did you never read the NT and what Jesus went around telling people who lied in the name of God?

Was Jesus running amok and spreading bullshit theology, shit for brains?

You might as well be at Westboro carrying a sign.

 

[night_son]

What evidence would you accept for something outside of space and time? And why is it other people's job to provide it to you? Are you waiting for something magical to happen?

No need to wait...

You have already been turned into a toad.

You openly proclaim that God can become a cheap snack food that has no life just because you believe...

You actually said this over and over again without even an inkling how insane that belief is....

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words einstein.

No. But you chose a specific translation. You aren't even a salt worthy contextualist. You shake out your own faith with a pinch of less grainy languishingly banal.

 

[hobelim]

No need to wait...

You have already been turned into a toad.

You openly proclaim that God can become a cheap snack food that has no life just because you believe...

You actually said this over and over again without even an inkling how insane that belief is....

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words einstein.

No. But you chose a specific translation. You aren't even a salt worthy contextualist. You shake out your own faith with a pinch of less grainy languishingly banal.

I have spoken.

 

[ding]

Yeah, no. I don't need the world needs your damning people to hell theology for being Christian.

You are not being damned to hell by me for being Christian, you have been damned to hell by God because you have dedicated yourself to desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God on a daily basis.

I am actually doing you a favor by pointing it out, shit for brains.


You are clinging to the religious flotsam of a dying age in full view of heaven and earth. Characters like you will be condemned to the shame of eternal abhorrence in new fairy tales that will be written for the children of the future.


But don't you worry your silly self, I am not worried about you. You can have it. I wouldn't dream of taking away from you what you have deliberately chosen for yourself.


"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."



Unless you repent, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

You are 100% telling me that I am damned for being a Christian.

That’s some bullshit theology you have there.

Bullshit theology? lol...

He who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

I didn't write those words einstein.

No. But you chose a specific translation. You aren't even a salt worthy contextualist. You shake out your own faith with a pinch of less grainy languishingly banal.

I have spoken.

You misspelled “been exposed.”

 

[james bond]

Seems to me that the horrors we see on this planet every single day are an indication that God doesn't exist.

I'm agnostic, but holy crap, this thread asks a weird question.

Okay, I'll accept your agnosticism. However, I consider agnostics the same as atheists except they are ignorant.

I do agree on the horrors, but we are all born with sin and the god of the world and the prince of the air influences all of us. It's not the true God as you claim who does nothing to stop it. Instead, the truth is God does exist. See, this shows that you are ignorant.

When you can prove it, I'm right here.

There is a difference between faith and fact.
.

I can prove you are agnostic. You still are ignorant. I just got through saying there is no proof, but through faith one can finally see the truth that God exists. That there is evidence which can be presented and an argument can be made to show why people believe God exists. However, you really don't care about that because you do not want to believe. Or else you would educate yourself and come to your own conclusions.

There is a difference between faith in Christianity and other faiths and that only one is the truth and that is the Word of God in the Bible. You act like you already know that Christianity doesn't deal with facts. Nothing can be further from the truth. Atheists are usually wrong.

We humans have always created gods - sometimes multiple gods at one time - to provide us with guidance, comfort and answers.

Believers of these various gods have always been convinced, down to their very bones, that they had The Answer and that everyone else was just wrong.

Okay. That's fine. That still has never made those various gods real. And if you really don't see the difference between fact & faith, there's nothing I can say.
.

Whoa. Let's discuss. Christianity did not create any God. God created us. Honestly, I do not know how you did not know this or have not heard of this. Most everyone knows the story of Adam and Eve. You show your ignorance. If someone created a god, then it would be easy enough to disprove. Like the Greek mythology gods. I always maintained that if you prove the Resurrection did not happen, then you destroy Christianity and become world famous. No one has done this. So right off the bat, you are wrong talking about creating gods. Atheists are usually wrong.

If someone believes in a false god, then it's easy enough to disprove it.

I was referring to Christianity and the Bible which is the creator's word. How do I know that that is correct? The creation science is correct. Science backs up the Bible even though it's not a science book. Science found the chicken came before the egg in 2017 because of protein in the eggshell. Protein can only be created inside a cell. Life can only begat life. This is observational science.

So when you talk about religion, you have to be specific in identifying the religion and what you are saying is mythology. You make sweeping generalizations and stereotypes of religion.

As for faith-based systems, then I would put atheism in that category. They believe the universe was created from nothing or invisible particles. And that these invisible particles can create an infinite amount of other universes. Yet, there is no scientific evidence for this to occur. They say there needs to be infinite density of mass and temperature for this to happen. Well, we can't have an infinite amount of anything in the natural world. All we can have is an uncountable amount, but that's still not singularity.

Thus, your weak arguments is defeated..

 

[frigidweirdo]

Probably because people have been brought up to "believe". Science isn't about believing, it isn't about deciding something's convenient and running with it, regardless of the facts.

If you understand how science works and use your brain to function with logic, the better things get.

The reality is democracy doesn't work when people get taken in by charlatans like Trump.

How funny. So you have religious belief in Science and in the Resistance. LOL

Not at all.

I don't believe. I accept the possibilities that are out there.

For example: We could potentially be a computer simulation.

But that doesn't change science. Science is the rules of whatever it is we're living in. There are rules and we know it. We can see kids testing these rules. Seeing what happens and what doesn't happen. You jump in the air, you know you're going to fall down. The scientists say this is called "gravity".

Doesn't matter the label. It's something we understand. Then as we get older we know satellites are floating around in space, that rockets with lots of fuel put them there. We have telecommunications that tell us the planet is round, and by going to different places we know that down is not pointing in the same direction in terms of the sun, or the galaxy or whatever, but in terms of the center of the Earth.

It's stuff we know because we experience it every day. There's other science we trust others to tell the truth, but most of that is so complex we don't actually need to know the rules. A little child doesn't need to know the rules of soccer in order to kick a ball.

Of course. They're nice rules. They're great actually. But religion can be an article of worship or something to which someone puts extreme importance. Science is just a quest to figure out how things work. If that something that you think you should worship--or that will give you all the answer to all of life's questions--well there you are.

The Trump thing--that's the moral question since 2016. People are measuring their morality, and others, based on Trump. That's how utterly lost we are. I just wake up every day and shake my head, I do.

Imagine giving over your human agency, your moral compass, to a real estate tycoon from New York who became president. I never would. But you do you, as the kids say.

Religion can be different things to different people, as can science. Science is about logic, religion is about make belief.

Ricky Gervais said. If you burned all the books, science books would be written again the same, but religious books would be different every time.

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

So what does it prove when religious people are doing whatever they like?

Get this, the top something like 40 countries in the world for murder rate are all Christian, or maybe one not so Christian country in there. The top 50 cities for murder are all in Christian countries.

Go figure.

Okay this right here is a religious statement:

Yes, morals. Are religious people moral? No way are they. They vote for Trump, they support war, they do bad things all the time.

Social Justice is your religion then, with a side dish of Secular Science thrown in. The "voting for Trump" thing as amoral is just strange, as strange as you think Christianity is, but even stranger to be honest. That it doesn't occur to you as strange should probably jar you a little bit.

And how is that a religious statement? It feels like this isn't going to end well.

Religion is religion. Why do you go around insisting that everyone has a religion in something, regardless?

The whole voting for Trump thing is because the guy has cheated on multiple wives, fucks around, lies, cheats, cons and does all manner of things which aren't very Christian.

You get gay people being ostracized by Christians among others, but the Bible is a little more clear on adulterers, and yet they voted for a guy who goes against all that, but they would never dare vote for a gay person because they're all a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, I have great curiosity in science and space exploration, and I pay quite a bit of attention to that. If I watch one thing on teevee more than anything else, it's that topic.

Religion seems pretty static to me. I don't see a lot that makes me curious. But science? I'm very hopeful many great discoveries will be made during my lifetime.
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I like science as a passing habit and space too. I'm not in the sciences though. But the bigger we expect science to be in our lives, it seems, the bigger the mistakes seem to be.

Probably because people have been brought up to "believe". Science isn't about believing, it isn't about deciding something's convenient and running with it, regardless of the facts.

If you understand how science works and use your brain to function with logic, the better things get.

The reality is democracy doesn't work when people get taken in by charlatans like Trump.

How funny. So you have religious belief in Science and in the Resistance. LOL

Not at all.

I don't believe. I accept the possibilities that are out there.

For example: We could potentially be a computer simulation.

But that doesn't change science. Science is the rules of whatever it is we're living in. There are rules and we know it. We can see kids testing these rules. Seeing what happens and what doesn't happen. You jump in the air, you know you're going to fall down. The scientists say this is called "gravity".

Doesn't matter the label. It's something we understand. Then as we get older we know satellites are floating around in space, that rockets with lots of fuel put them there. We have telecommunications that tell us the planet is round, and by going to different places we know that down is not pointing in the same direction in terms of the sun, or the galaxy or whatever, but in terms of the center of the Earth.

It's stuff we know because we experience it every day. There's other science we trust others to tell the truth, but most of that is so complex we don't actually need to know the rules. A little child doesn't need to know the rules of soccer in order to kick a ball.

And by the way: "accepting possibilities" is the same as faith.

Science is about facts, what is known, what can be proven. Not "possibilities". That's faith.

Sigh.

I didn't accept a possibility. I accepted that possibilities could exist. That this could exist, or it could not, we don't know either way, so no, it's not the same as faith no matter how much you try that lines.

Look. Science tells us the facts within what you know. What's outside of what we know? We don't know.

We have three choices. 1) Make it up. That's religion. 2) say there are possibilities of what could be there without saying that is what is there. 3) Say nothing is there.

The second one is saying "I don't know, it could be this or that, but I won't say what it is." So, no, it's not like make belief.

 

[night_son]

Seems to me that the horrors we see on this planet every single day are an indication that God doesn't exist.

I'm agnostic, but holy crap, this thread asks a weird question.

Okay, I'll accept your agnosticism. However, I consider agnostics the same as atheists except they are ignorant.

I do agree on the horrors, but we are all born with sin and the god of the world and the prince of the air influences all of us. It's not the true God as you claim who does nothing to stop it. Instead, the truth is God does exist. See, this shows that you are ignorant.

When you can prove it, I'm right here.

There is a difference between faith and fact.
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I can prove you are agnostic. You still are ignorant. I just got through saying there is no proof, but through faith one can finally see the truth that God exists. That there is evidence which can be presented and an argument can be made to show why people believe God exists. However, you really don't care about that because you do not want to believe. Or else you would educate yourself and come to your own conclusions.

There is a difference between faith in Christianity and other faiths and that only one is the truth and that is the Word of God in the Bible. You act like you already know that Christianity doesn't deal with facts. Nothing can be further from the truth. Atheists are usually wrong.

We humans have always created gods - sometimes multiple gods at one time - to provide us with guidance, comfort and answers.

Believers of these various gods have always been convinced, down to their very bones, that they had The Answer and that everyone else was just wrong.

Okay. That's fine. That still has never made those various gods real. And if you really don't see the difference between fact & faith, there's nothing I can say.
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Whoa. Let's discuss. Christianity did not create any God. God created us. Honestly, I do not know how you did not know this or have not heard of this. Most everyone knows the story of Adam and Eve. You show your ignorance. If someone created a god, then it would be easy enough to disprove. Like the Greek mythology gods. I always maintained that if you prove the Resurrection did not happen, then you destroy Christianity and become world famous. No one has done this. So right off the bat, you are wrong talking about creating gods. Atheists are usually wrong.

If someone believes in a false god, then it's easy enough to disprove it.

I was referring to Christianity and the Bible which is the creator's word. How do I know that that is correct? The creation science is correct. Science backs up the Bible even though it's not a science book. Science found the chicken came before the egg in 2017 because of protein in the eggshell. Protein can only be created inside a cell. Life can only begat life. This is observational science.

So when you talk about religion, you have to be specific in identifying the religion and what you are saying is mythology. You make sweeping generalizations and stereotypes of religion.

As for faith-based systems, then I would put atheism in that category. They believe the universe was created from nothing or invisible particles. And that these invisible particles can create an infinite amount of other universes. Yet, there is no scientific evidence for this to occur. They say there needs to be infinite density of mass and temperature for this to happen. Well, we can't have an infinite amount of anything in the natural world. All we can have is an uncountable amount, but that's still not singularity.

Thus, your weak arguments is defeated..

Well expressed.

Why does Man imitate the structures of life across all frontiers of science? If those structures are all randomly generated, why do human engineers intentionally, procedurally mimic them? The truth of the father, and thus, the Father, is not in the deeds thereof, but in the seed. We spend the naiveté of our youth defying the words of our fathers; we rebel, deny, escape from under his authority and make our own explorations of the mind--all in effort to prove the father wrong. Only in wisdom--nearer the end--do we accept knowledge that the father knew better--if not in his life deeds, then at least in his seed which gave us life, which contained the primeval embodiment of Logos within the genetic material descended from the beginning. In returning to faith in the father, we also return to faith in The Father, and the Son. Wisdom regained; not wise in individual nature.

Atheism is a similar cry for aid in returning to wisdom, faith, truth in the father's and Father's gift. The truly lost atheists, historically, have killed millions in their call for the help of the believer, after the believer could no longer give them the comfort they demanded. Not believing is a an act of self, an act of individual responsibility and free will, like any other. Don't make the believer pay the consequence for your own disbelief in demands for proof of anything.

 

[Mac1958]

Christianity did not create any God. God created us. Honestly, I do not know how you did not know this or have not heard of this.
Thus, your weak arguments is defeated..

Whatever you'd like.

I do love your argument: "It's a fact that God exists because I think so". "God exists because the Bible says so".

Whatever works for you. I won't attack you for your beliefs.
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[james bond]

Atheists always claim they have to have evidence that God exists, but history shows us different. Once you provide the evidence, then they end up forgetting like that which happened to Jesus Christ or they want even more evidence such that every atheist must be convinced.

The Bible says otherwise. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists:

"Jesus performed countless miracles, yet the vast majority of people did not believe in Him. If God performed miracles today as He did in the past, the result would be the same. People would be amazed and would believe in God for a short time. That faith would be shallow and would disappear the moment something unexpected or frightening occurred. A faith based on miracles is not a mature faith. God performed the greatest “God miracle” of all time in coming to earth as the Man Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that we could be saved (John 3:16). God does still perform miracles—many of them simply go unnoticed or are denied. However, we do not need more miracles. What we need is to believe in the miracle of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ."

Does God still perform miracles?

Lawrence Krauss is a professor of physics at Arizona State University. He said evidence for God would be as follows.

"Now, it would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight—well not here, but in a place where you could see the stars, in Arizona, say,—and I looked up tonight and I saw the stars rearrange themselves say, “I am here.”

The Craig - Krauss Debate at North Carolina State University | Reasonable Faith

Later, another atheist responded that he would not accept the stars rearranging themselves because people south of the equator would not be able to see this.

Thus, the only way I see to convince every single atheist is pain and suffering. If they knew God brought this upon them, then they would have to believe. It's like they brought it upon themselves. You asked for it. You got it. Of course, this is what I think happens in the afterlife. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved in this life.

I have a video on pain and suffering. Maybe this is one of the methods.

So you're saying that because we feel pain, which is literally a way of our body telling our brain something's gone wrong, that God exists?

You know the Venus fly trap plants. Well, they react to flies, does this "prove that God exists" too?

I'm just waiting to tell me why if God has to exist because things are so complex and nothing can just appear out of nowhere, why God apparently appeared out of nowhere and who created this God.

Well, I was looking at it from the pov as a Christian that atheists want *proof* of God before they believe he exists. However, there won't be any proof because God stated that we have to have faith that he exists.

Lawrence Krauss said in the debate with Craig that he'll reconsider if a miracle occurred of the stars aligning to spell, "I'm here" or something to that effect. However, an astute atheist claimed that that isn't enough. The atheists in the other half of the hemisphere to Arizona would not see it. I thought this atheist said the only thing intelligent about atheism, i.e. someone would have to convince every single atheist and not just one, a few or many.

As for your Venus Fly Trap analogy, that's a fly or insect and we do not know if it feels pain in the trap. However, let's say God captures it and tears off its wings one-at-a-time and then moves to the legs one-at-a-time. Will the fly be more likely to believe if it could could communicate at a rudimentary level that it was in pain and does believe? I mean in this world, what would convince every single fly that God exists and is showing his power?

So, you're basically saying you have no proof, but people should just accept what you say simply because you say it?

So you don't know if a fly feels pain, but you know God exists.

Why can't you just believe a fly feels pain the same way you believe God exists.

Whatever, we're not talking about the fly, but the plant. The plant will MOVE, which means the plant is receiving messages from other parts of the plant, which is the same as how we feel pain

You are all over the board and either deliberately do not understand what I said or are having reading comprehension problems. You are reducing what I said. I did not say that I have no proof. What I said was people have to have faith first.

I did not say a fly feels no pain. It should feel pain when its wings are ripped off or its legs are ripped off. Isn't that the purpose of making the fly believe you are more powerful, that you exist and do not like what its doing? Otherwise, ti will just go on its way and lay larvae in your food and bring germs into your environment. Your plant is a death trap. Bug spray is to cause pain and death. You can swat the fly or use sticky fly paper as a death trap.

As for the plant, it's seeking food. The fly and other insects are its food. So, my analogy is better than yours.

What I said was one has to have faith in the God of Christianity. What happens after that is he will reveal himself and you will find the truth.

Now, what is the point of the plant and its messages? It's isn't the same as how we feel pain, is it? Is that what you're claiming ha ha?

 

[james bond]

Christianity did not create any God. God created us. Honestly, I do not know how you did not know this or have not heard of this.
Thus, your weak arguments is defeated..

Whatever you'd like.

I do love your argument: "It's a fact that God exists because I think so". "God exists because the Bible says so".

Whatever works for you. I won't attack you for your beliefs.
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Again, you are wrong. It is fact that God will start to exist in ONE'S life if one places their faith in him. There is no other way. Part of it IS because the Bible says so. It is God's Word. Our creator's word. This is the truth, not religion. However, it's not how to know for oneself that God exists. Just because the Bible says so does not do it. One needs to take a leap of faith, start to believe in the Bible and then find evidence that what it says is true for themselves. If you're sincere and have faith, then one can pray to God and he will reveal himself.

I don't know how else to explain it to you, but what you think I said as my argument is wrong.

Thank you for my faith. .

 

[Mac1958]

Christianity did not create any God. God created us. Honestly, I do not know how you did not know this or have not heard of this.
Thus, your weak arguments is defeated..

Whatever you'd like.

I do love your argument: "It's a fact that God exists because I think so". "God exists because the Bible says so".

Whatever works for you. I won't attack you for your beliefs.
.

Again, you are wrong. It is fact that God will start to exist in ONE'S life if one places their faith in him. There is no other way. Part of it IS because the Bible says so. It is God's Word. Our creator's word. This is the truth, not religion. However, it's not how to know for oneself that God exists. Just because the Bible says so does not do it. One needs to take a leap of faith, start to believe in the Bible and then find evidence that what it says is true for themselves. If you're sincere and have faith, then one can pray to God and he will reveal himself.

I don't know how else to explain it to you, but what you think I said as my argument is wrong.

Thank you for my faith. .

You're welcome.

And I don't need you to explain anything to me. Believe whatever you'd like.
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