Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[MeBelle]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

If the party at large is against this, then I retract that line.

Are they?

Pelosi is behind it 100%, which probably means most Democrats oppose it.

Pelosi's comments aren't surprising, especially after expressing annoyance a few months ago about Catholics having this "conscious thing.'

'Catholic' Pelosi Supports Obama Birth Control Mandate - Katie Pavlich

 

[Annie]

Nobody is stopping you from practicing your backwards superstitions or letting the corrupt deviants who make up your clergy from running your life.

(Sorry, grew up Catholic. They aren't as evil as Mormons, but they are freakin' close.)

You just can'ti impose them on anyone else.

Only two people should be in on your medical decisions. You and your doctor. Not a bean-counter at an insurance company and not a church deciding they don't approve of your "lifestyle".

What if the church decided it wasn't going to approve AIDS drugs because they don't approve of homosexuality? Or if you boss who is a Jehovah's Witness decides that his insurance company isn't going to cover blood transfusions? Where does it stop?

Obamacare is going to impose on the Catholic church the mandate to fund things it vehemently opposes. Obamacare is all about imposing government power on others.

So if you actually believed in what you just wrote, you would oppose this.

I'm more worried about Church Tyranny than state tryanny. (Probalby because I grew up in a Church tyranny.) We can vote out a president, we can't vote out a Pope no matter how many pedophiles he hides under his dress.

The Church gave its right to bitch they minute it had its hand out for government funds.

Well except for the little fact that you leave the church, they don't come and say you have to return, nor do you need to contribute jack shit to an institution you fear or hate or both.

 

[Annie]

I think you're all tied up in emotion and missing the point.

The Church itself remains exempt.

Essentially all this is is saying you can't slap a badge on a non-church-related business and claim an exemption from the law.

If that means you must offer healthcare which covers contraceptives, then that's what it means - And we're not here to debate the merit of the law, just this particular phenomenon.

You all seem to believe that he's making special laws for the Church and as I understand it, that's just not the case.

Catholic universities, hospitals, inner city parochial schools, services provided by Catholic Charities, all hire and serve non-Catholics. I think it should stop. I also agree that they should stop taking all federal and public funding. Catholic services provided by and for Catholics.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think you're all tied up in emotion and missing the point.

The Church itself remains exempt.

Essentially all this is is saying you can't slap a badge on a non-church-related business and claim an exemption from the law.

If that means you must offer healthcare which covers contraceptives, then that's what it means - And we're not here to debate the merit of the law, just this particular phenomenon.

You all seem to believe that he's making special laws for the Church and as I understand it, that's just not the case.

That is not what they are saying, the new rule applies to any organization that helps people who are not part of it. In other words, the Catholic church can no longer help anyone who is not Catholic. This rule will mark an end to any to any religious group who tries to help others. Even idiots think this is a bad idea.

 

[Cuyo]

I think you're all tied up in emotion and missing the point.

The Church itself remains exempt.

Essentially all this is is saying you can't slap a badge on a non-church-related business and claim an exemption from the law.

If that means you must offer healthcare which covers contraceptives, then that's what it means - And we're not here to debate the merit of the law, just this particular phenomenon.

You all seem to believe that he's making special laws for the Church and as I understand it, that's just not the case.

Catholic universities, hospitals, inner city parochial schools, services provided by Catholic Charities, all hire and serve non-Catholics. I think it should stop. I also agree that they should stop taking all federal and public funding. Catholic services provided by and for Catholics.

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

 

[Annie]

I think you're all tied up in emotion and missing the point.

The Church itself remains exempt.

Essentially all this is is saying you can't slap a badge on a non-church-related business and claim an exemption from the law.

If that means you must offer healthcare which covers contraceptives, then that's what it means - And we're not here to debate the merit of the law, just this particular phenomenon.

You all seem to believe that he's making special laws for the Church and as I understand it, that's just not the case.

Catholic universities, hospitals, inner city parochial schools, services provided by Catholic Charities, all hire and serve non-Catholics. I think it should stop. I also agree that they should stop taking all federal and public funding. Catholic services provided by and for Catholics.

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

I agree, they should do all of those things.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think you're all tied up in emotion and missing the point.

The Church itself remains exempt.

Essentially all this is is saying you can't slap a badge on a non-church-related business and claim an exemption from the law.

If that means you must offer healthcare which covers contraceptives, then that's what it means - And we're not here to debate the merit of the law, just this particular phenomenon.

You all seem to believe that he's making special laws for the Church and as I understand it, that's just not the case.

Catholic universities, hospitals, inner city parochial schools, services provided by Catholic Charities, all hire and serve non-Catholics. I think it should stop. I also agree that they should stop taking all federal and public funding. Catholic services provided by and for Catholics.

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

 

[Annie]

Catholic universities, hospitals, inner city parochial schools, services provided by Catholic Charities, all hire and serve non-Catholics. I think it should stop. I also agree that they should stop taking all federal and public funding. Catholic services provided by and for Catholics.

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

That may be the case, but shouldn't be any longer. There is supposed to be freedom of religion, not government controlled religion. Time to take a stand.

 

[Cuyo]

Catholic universities, hospitals, inner city parochial schools, services provided by Catholic Charities, all hire and serve non-Catholics. I think it should stop. I also agree that they should stop taking all federal and public funding. Catholic services provided by and for Catholics.

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

I meant if they did stop serving and hiring non-catholics, and stop taking federal funding.

As I said, that's the entire debate. Is it really a "Catholic [whatever]" if it's not of, for, and by Catholics? Or is "Catholic" just a brand?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

That may be the case, but shouldn't be any longer. There is supposed to be freedom of religion, not government controlled religion. Time to take a stand.

They do, and the government wins because it has guns.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/206002-government-and-its-rivals.html

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

I meant if they did stop serving and hiring non-catholics, and stop taking federal funding.

As I said, that's the entire debate. Is it really a "Catholic [whatever]" if it's not of, for, and by Catholics? Or is "Catholic" just a brand?

Catholic means universal. By not serving non Catholics would turn from being Catholic to just being a brand.

 

[Annie]

If they did all those things, I don't think we'd have an issue here. THAT'S the entire debate. Is it truly a Catholic institution, or just a Catholic "Brand?"
Could I claim that I'm a [Insert religion here] pet dealer and claim an exemption from [Insert law I don't wish to obey, which would be justified by said religion]?

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

I meant if they did stop serving and hiring non-catholics, and stop taking federal funding.

As I said, that's the entire debate. Is it really a "Catholic [whatever]" if it's not of, for, and by Catholics? Or is "Catholic" just a brand?

Won't happen often, I agree with you. I know what the other poster is getting at, many of the poor get superior educations and medical care, because the administrators and boards have this thing about 'social justice' and providing services that are lacking in those communities.

As you say, time to put the money, expertise, etc. with the Catholics. Close the inner city schools, where most are not Catholic, sometimes none are. Restrict the Catholic Universities to Catholics only, (btw, Catholics are very liberal about paying lip service to the Church, as highlighted by birth control discussions), nevertheless, one must go through baptism and confirmation to attend the universities.

Close all the Catholic hospitals, except those affiliated with Catholic Universities, most of the rest are in economically struggling areas, let the government hospitals care for them.

 

[Annie]

They do all those things. The government gives them money because they do a better job at it than the government itself does.

I meant if they did stop serving and hiring non-catholics, and stop taking federal funding.

As I said, that's the entire debate. Is it really a "Catholic [whatever]" if it's not of, for, and by Catholics? Or is "Catholic" just a brand?

Catholic means universal. By not serving non Catholics would turn from being Catholic to just being a brand.

Not true about 'serving non-Catholics.' Universal means 'welcoming all' not what you are implying. That is part of the 'social justice' branch of Catholic Church, truly socialist at best, communist at heart.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I too disagree that birth control is wrong. But they choose to make it one of their tenets and as such should be forced to go against them.

Obama is WRONG about this, plain and simple.

i agree.....many people are pretty dam serious about their Religious beliefs.....

and they are more than free to practice them. They just can't impose them on other people.

im pretty sure this thread is about Obama imposing something on them.....

 

[Cuyo]

i agree.....many people are pretty dam serious about their Religious beliefs.....

and they are more than free to practice them. They just can't impose them on other people.

im pretty sure this thread is about Obama imposing something on them.....

By virtue of that logic, any law in existence is someone 'imposing' something on someone... Which I guess it sort of is, but is that really the point?

 

[MikeK]

Toro,

I was baptized and confirmed Catholic. I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember but I respect the faith of those whose worship does not impose any negative effect on others and I believe that devotion to the Church has a strongly positive influence on its adherents. But I also believe there are certain negative aspects of Catholicism with its rigidly repressive disposition toward sexuality being among the worst.

I believe Obama's effort to control unwanted pregnancy will operate to the benefit of many individual Americans and to our society as a whole. And I believe the Church's opposition to it is out of place and out of date.

 

[Listening]

Yes.

 

[auditor0007]

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

I guess conservatives trust nature more than new ideas like the ones Hitler Stalin and Mao had. Plus birth control is really love control.
Instead of loving the person with whom you have sex, loving the baby that results, and forming a family, you have sex with strangers and kill the baby.

Which culture is better?

Plus we see Europe and Japan dying because of birth control

We have over seven billion people taking up space on this planet currently. The growth rate is not yet slowing down, although there are exceptions such as Europe and Japan. How many more people do you think this planet can handle? Another seven billion? Another fourteen billion? When do we realize that Planet Earth cannot support so many people?

 

[Steelplate]

Beware the law of unintended consequences. Yes, they get medicare and medicaid... but the Church itself also provides vast amounts of funding - and they treat absolutely anyone, regardless for race, color or creed. If the government had to take up the slack left by this stupidity.... that money's gonna have to be found from somewhere. Don't you think this country is in enough shit without idiots creating more?

It's not gonna 'save' taxpayers money, you fucking idiot.... it's gonna cost even more. Does simple math elude you?

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use?

Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions. A woman comes in for an abortion, they educate her on her choices, provide viable alternatives, and if she still demands an abortion... they give her one.

But of course, you probably don't believe the last paragraph, because you've been told that all Planned Parenthood does is abort fetuses.

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use? Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions.

dude, I gotta rep you for that, my best laugh of the week....oh wait, you're serious?

You are a moron who let other people(oh... like RW propaganda) to think for you. Find out for yourself. I've researched this and it's true. Abortions make up about 5% of the pie of all the services offered and rendered. I looked into the process of getting an abortion through them and they give mandatory counseling and offer alternatives....they don't just say "OK, sign here...we'll get the saline ready".

But then again.... I am talking to a right winger...so, I realize that stuffing your head in the sand to differing information is par for the course.... Let me just say this.... you people's world view is so narrow, that you can't fit a piece of paper in between.

 

[DaGoose]

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use?

Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions. A woman comes in for an abortion, they educate her on her choices, provide viable alternatives, and if she still demands an abortion... they give her one.

But of course, you probably don't believe the last paragraph, because you've been told that all Planned Parenthood does is abort fetuses.

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use? Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions.

dude, I gotta rep you for that, my best laugh of the week....oh wait, you're serious?

You are a moron who let other people(oh... like RW propaganda) to think for you. Find out for yourself. I've researched this and it's true. Abortions make up about 5% of the pie of all the services offered and rendered. I looked into the process of getting an abortion through them and they give mandatory counseling and offer alternatives....they don't just say "OK, sign here...we'll get the saline ready".

But then again.... I am talking to a right winger...so, I realize that stuffing your head in the sand to differing information is par for the course.... Let me just say this.... you people's world view is so narrow, that you can't fit a piece of paper in between.

WHAT!!!??? How DARE you contradict what Rush Limbaugh says!!!!

They don't want to hear the facts, they only want to hear what Rush says.....