Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?

ABSOLUTELY NOT POSSIBLE, because racism has been built up into this massive bloated political balloon. Now we have kooks seeking "reparations" for crimes never done them, nor their fathers, nor their fathers, fathers, fathers, father. Not that they can even show a debt. Then you have the absolutely disgusting, lying, cowardly, idiots like Asciepias (he compares himself to a milkweed?!), the most polarized, racist, unobjective person on the planet who pollutes EVERY thread about race with insane, indefensible remarks like "The white man doesn't understand objectivity." Now, according to this meathead, lack of objectivity now runs in the genes? This man is so full of reverse racism and quarter-baked rationalizations enough to make your head spin. So it is impossible to have intelligent, objective conversations about race with people who start out their life basing their entire ideology and philosophy and outlook on the world based on race, skin color, black power, and a hatred, animosity, envy and vengeance towards whites.

This is the race and racism section. So then what is A supposed to talk about? His lasagna recipe?

We are owed money. Period.

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

 

[Unkotare]

Of course it's possible to have such a conversation. Just not here in the "Screeching, Irrational, Idiotic, Hateful Racist Forum."


It would be nice if the site had a forum for reasonable conversations.

You're one of the reasons why we can't have a reasonable discussion on the topic....

Be more specific.

You have a tendency to butt into threads and call everyone who doesn't tow the line: "all races are exactly the same" an ignorant bigot.

So, you think an “objective conversation” is one where your views go unchallenged?

Calling people stupid is a great way to shut down a conversation. Doesn't really seem to me like you're interested in having an honest dialogue.

Have you ever seen a giraffe?

 

[impuretrash]

You're one of the reasons why we can't have a reasonable discussion on the topic....

Be more specific.

You have a tendency to butt into threads and call everyone who doesn't tow the line: "all races are exactly the same" an ignorant bigot.

So, you think an “objective conversation” is one where your views go unchallenged?

Calling people stupid is a great way to shut down a conversation. Doesn't really seem to me like you're interested in having an honest dialogue.

Have you ever seen a giraffe?

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

No. It isn't. Blacks commit egregious race crimes every day. But that is acceptable. If you are white and notice black crime, that is "racism", according to some. And black hate crimes are just ignored like nothing happened. Opps, what was all that? Tears in the rain. Please.

Every race has a percentage of individuals who are criminals yet I know of no race where the majority are criminals, black people included.

The racists among you always do the same thing - you judge the entire group by their worse members all while our legislators crafted additional laws that only criminalized the said behavior if one was of African descent. Then you turn around and point at alledgedly higher numbers with no conderation at all of the fact that there has been racial bias written into the laws and fabric of the U.S. for damn near 200 years. Why is this fact so hard to accept? No one is going to judge you for acknowledging this nor assign any liability which isn't possible anyway. So what gives?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about AND you're a moderator.

 

[Paul Essien]

I am specifically referring to the frequent assertions in this forum that Whites cannot understand Blacks and that they should not express any opinions about racial issues in the U.S.

You claim that people can't be objective about talking about race BUT THEN you focus on the problems of white people. You talk about what what whites supposedly can't do. What whites supposedly can't say. So even before the conversation has started you're already fighting for the white corner and then you'll sit here and try and claim that you are being objective

 

[JakeStarkey]

. . . and think people are inferior because they disagree with him and not do what he wants.

 

[IM2]

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about AND you're a moderator.

That's another problem here. A few of these moderators enable the racism. Not all of them but as you see this one does.

 

[Paul Essien]

 

[deanrd]

I am specifically referring to the frequent assertions in this forum that Whites cannot understand Blacks and that they should not express any opinions about racial issues in the U.S. Combined with the latest canard about people having their own "realities," Where does that leave us? Is there any genuine interest in problem resolution, or is it all just a political guilt game designed to influence public opinion?

Start here: Republicans are 90% white. Their president thinks some Nazi's are good people. How do we know? He told us.

We will never have a good discussion on race with Republicans as long as they are the party of the Aryan Nation and the Alt White.

 

[IM2]

Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?

ABSOLUTELY NOT POSSIBLE, because racism has been built up into this massive bloated political balloon. Now we have kooks seeking "reparations" for crimes never done them, nor their fathers, nor their fathers, fathers, fathers, father. Not that they can even show a debt. Then you have the absolutely disgusting, lying, cowardly, idiots like Asciepias (he compares himself to a milkweed?!), the most polarized, racist, unobjective person on the planet who pollutes EVERY thread about race with insane, indefensible remarks like "The white man doesn't understand objectivity." Now, according to this meathead, lack of objectivity now runs in the genes? This man is so full of reverse racism and quarter-baked rationalizations enough to make your head spin. So it is impossible to have intelligent, objective conversations about race with people who start out their life basing their entire ideology and philosophy and outlook on the world based on race, skin color, black power, and a hatred, animosity, envy and vengeance towards whites.

This is the race and racism section. So then what is A supposed to talk about? His lasagna recipe?

We are owed money. Period.

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

Really? Is that how it is Asian? Whites use your race as mascots in trying to turn the clock back and you go along with it because you think you have most favored minority status. Self created ghettos? Really?

The federal government created inner-city ghettos with racist housing regulations
Aaron J. Howell

From Detroit to Atlanta, Newark to Cambridge, conditions in American ghettos were largely the same, even when the neighborhoods that housed them differed. But ghettos didn’t just happen by accident. They were, primarily in cities of the Northeast and Midwest, formed during the first half of the 20th century. That formation came as a direct result of specifically racist government policies, economic and labor factors that drastically disadvantaged black workers, and actual racial violence that made it impossible for blacks to live in other neighborhoods. These factors created many conditions for the urban uprisings of the sixties. Putting it simply, the American ghetto exists almost entirely a result of intentional state action and extra-legal white supremacist violence.

In the first half of the 20th century, the black population went from a mostly rural, southern population to an urban, northern one. In 1900, about 90 percent of the black population lived in the south, with a majority in rural areas. By 1970, however, about 70 percent lived in cities, a majority in the north. A complicated set of factors created what became known as the Great Migration, but a fundamental force was the fact that white laborers in the north were unionizing. To cut costs, factory owners began to actively recruit black male labor from the south. They knew they could pay these men lower wages than their white counterparts and could also be confident that their hiring of black men was unlikely to result in interracial working class resistance to the overall lowering of wages.

In the early 1920s, a eugenics movement (belief in natural biological differences between race groups) was on the rise. The dominant view of American race science was one of extinction — the idea that through complete racial segregation the “lesser races” would simply die off. Separation was not only the law, it was considered by many whites to be the moral and just thing to do about race relations. Unions at this time were racially exclusive and had shown a commitment to this type of organizing and maintenance of the color line. Most white laborers were simply too racist to ever effectively join with black people to fight together for better working conditions and wages.

Demonstrations against a black family moving into an all-white neighborhood in Folcroft, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Philadelphia, in 1963. (AP)

Segregated unions weren’t the only problem for black migrants. As they arrived north in greater numbers, they were met with severe racial violence in neighborhoods and at work. Given the dominant white supremacist view that simply touching a black body could ultimately lead to disease, whites fiercely defended their property and neighborhoods. Neighborhood boundaries became racial boundaries. We tend to think of “race war” as a black invention, embodied in the riots and unrest of the 1960s, but in the early 20th century, it was more frequently whites in the North who were violently defending turf along racial lines

Racial residential segregation rose to levels never seen before in the United States — doubling between 1880 and 1940, with most of that growth focused in cities. The ghetto was forming in order to resolve two “crises.” First was the crisis of the white mind, as blackness was thought to be a threat in need of control. The second was a crisis of capital, as rising wages for white males were perceived by factory owners as a threat to profitability. This put black laborers in an impossible position. They were confined to the worst neighborhoods, while also earning significantly less money than their white counterparts.

But white violence and unequal economic conditions were not the only factors. Specific racist government policies made it much easier to maintain the color line. Racial exclusions were written into property deeds, allowing homeowners to ensure their property would only be sold to other whites for a set period of time — typically over many decades. The Supreme Court declared these racially restrictive covenants illegal in 1948, but in many locales the practice continued unabated due to exceedingly lax enforcement at the municipal level.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act was intended to address these issues once and for all, but was effectively hamstrung by Southern Democrats, a powerful voting bloc that watered down any civil rights policy coming out of Congress. And without southern voters, the Democratic Party had little chance of winning the White House. The Democratic coalition that essentially dominated national politics from Franklin D. Roosevelt to Lyndon B. Johnson relied on placating racists in order to rule.

Federally backed home loan programs were the other primary way in which the state actively fostered segregation. Starting in the 1930s and continuing for several decades, the federal government underwrote home loans that created mass suburbanization and a dramatic rise in homeownership rates. But these loans were not distributed fairly. The Federal Home Owner’s Loan Corporation, created as part of Roosevelt’s New Deal to distribute loans, made a series of Residential Security Maps as a way of assessing risk/reward calculations for federal loans.

Postwar suburban expansion was aided by the implementation of 30-year mortgages. (Bettmann/Getty Images)

Predictably, a key component in the assessment of “risk” was race, both the race of the applicant as well as the racial composition of the neighborhood. Black neighborhoods were coded red in these maps, a practice that became known as “redlining.” The logic was that using government-guaranteed funds to assist potential black homeowners was essentially too risky a bet to take. Future government loan programs during the pre-Civil Rights era adopted this reasoning. Private lending and insurance companies soon followed suit. Blackness was now officially considered a financial risk, its mere presence a sign of a neighborhood’s downward trajectory. Federal standards conspired to not only make it nearly impossible for black families to leave the cities, but made it much easier for white families to do so and build equity and generational wealth along the way. Even whites who weren’t racist found it financially sensible to take advantage of this social restructuring.

Meanwhile an important innovation in housing policy was taking place — the 30-year mortgage with a small down payment. Prior to this era, the terms of home loans were shorter — sometimes 10 years or less, which meant higher mortgage payments. For working class whites prior to the New Deal, homeownership was simply not financially possible. With the introduction of the 30-year mortgage, ownership opened up to Americans like it never had before. Not only was it appealing to move out of overcrowded cities (there had been a moratorium on new home construction during World War II), but homeownership was a potential route to wealth accumulation. For the white working classes, it was the main route. It was a chance to have something to pass down to the next generation.

These federally sponsored housing policies created both the black ghetto and the white suburbs, such that by the time of the long hot summer of 1967, American cities took on what George Clinton would famously call a “chocolate city, vanilla suburbs” pattern. To the extent that any federally backed money went into ghettos, it was mostly put to the task of slum clearance. Many buildings were torn down, some never to be rebuilt, at least not for the purposes of housing. As a result, in many places, rents actually rose in the ghetto as whites moved to the suburbs.

By 1967, blacks (and a significant number of Puerto Ricans) living in ghettos had real reasons to not perceive the neighborhood as “theirs” in any meaningful way. They were barred from potential wealth accumulation through federal home loans. They were confined to neighborhoods not of their choosing. Their experience with government was through policing, inadequate schools, slum clearance, and legalized discrimination. The Fair Housing Act was not passed until 1968. Legalized discrimination in housing was still very much allowed by the summer of 1967.

Newark row houses under various stages of clearance in 1980, 1985, and 1987. (Camilo J. Vergara/Library of Congress)

Although they may not have agreed on racial issues, working-class whites and blacks did have some common political ground when they both were largely renters in cities. But this connection, however tenuous, was severed. Working-class whites were increasingly becoming homeowners living in different political jurisdictions. As white flight occurred—by 1967 around 60% of whites in metropolitan areas lived in the suburbs—the political isolation of the ghetto-dweller was nearly complete.

When marginalization happens on such a severe scale, oppressed groups often begin to feel that they owe no obligation to the society that created their condition. And severely marginalized populations who do not see routine politics as a route to solving the problems of their lives often resort to politics by other means. Urban uprising is politics by other means.

The federal government created inner-city ghettos with racist housing regulations

These are the same policies that created the western Chinatowns son.

 

[(((Marc(((]

We would rather not be with non whites Then and now

 

[MarcATL]

I believe there is because I've had them. But it doesn't seem this forum is a place where that can happen. Whites here want to tell us all about ourselves and when we try explaining our experiences we are told it can't be so. Only the way whites see things must be so. For example, there can be no effects from at least 188 years of legalized racism today just because some laws were passed. It doesn't matter that people still refuse to follow those laws because some words written on a piece of paper made it all just disappear.

Continuing racism doesn't happen to us even as we see racist opinions posted by whites here who are real life people. We as blacks must accept the white opinion that we are only complaining about the past for our failures even after reading blatant modern examples of racism posted here by whites.

Then if we point out too many examples of white racist actions, we are called racists. The definition of racism changes here every day. It has changed from the original dictionary definitions to if you just mention a persons race, point out what a race has done, or if all you do is talk about race in a forum section that you are supposed to talk about race in, then you are a racist. Now that doesn't apply to the white posters here, it seems like the white posters believe they get make all the rules and that we all must agree with their gaslighting.

No one has said whites cannot express racial opinions. However most opinions from whites are not grounded in proven statistical, historical, or legally documented fact. For example, whites here claimed that backs killed 2 times more whites than whites did blacks. In the information it showed Blacks killed 400 whites, whites killed 200 black. So while that did happen those are low numbers that do not constitute any serious violent threat to whites from black people. In the same information it was shown that whites killed just over 2,600 whites. So whites killed 6 times more whites than blacks did but we didn't get that in the discussion and when we blacks bring it up, we are race baiting or we believe something whites here decided was fake or revised just because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Then we get the false equivalences whereby we can't know how it is to be white just because we say whites can't understand us. Yet American culture is based on whiteness and that non whites must adapt or assimilate into white culture to survive while the reverse doesn't have to happen. So you learn little to nothing about us then issue opinions about us based on beliefs you have been taught, most of them not reality.

Powerful!

That's the long and short of if.

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[MarcATL]

Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?

ABSOLUTELY NOT POSSIBLE, because racism has been built up into this massive bloated political balloon. Now we have kooks seeking "reparations" for crimes never done them, nor their fathers, nor their fathers, fathers, fathers, father. Not that they can even show a debt. Then you have the absolutely disgusting, lying, cowardly, idiots like Asciepias (he compares himself to a milkweed?!), the most polarized, racist, unobjective person on the planet who pollutes EVERY thread about race with insane, indefensible remarks like "The white man doesn't understand objectivity." Now, according to this meathead, lack of objectivity now runs in the genes? This man is so full of reverse racism and quarter-baked rationalizations enough to make your head spin. So it is impossible to have intelligent, objective conversations about race with people who start out their life basing their entire ideology and philosophy and outlook on the world based on race, skin color, black power, and a hatred, animosity, envy and vengeance towards whites.

This is the race and racism section. So then what is A supposed to talk about? His lasagna recipe?

We are owed money. Period.

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

Look at what this racist palooka is "contributing" to the discussion. Nice!

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[MarcATL]

No. It isn't. Blacks commit egregious race crimes every day. But that is acceptable. If you are white and notice black crime, that is "racism", according to some. And black hate crimes are just ignored like nothing happened. Opps, what was all that? Tears in the rain. Please.

Every race has a percentage of individuals who are criminals yet I know of no race where the majority are criminals, black people included.

The racists among you always do the same thing - you judge the entire group by their worse members all while our legislators crafted additional laws that only criminalized the said behavior if one was of African descent. Then you turn around and point at alledgedly higher numbers with no conderation at all of the fact that there has been racial bias written into the laws and fabric of the U.S. for damn near 200 years. Why is this fact so hard to accept? No one is going to judge you for acknowledging this nor assign any liability which isn't possible anyway. So what gives?

Its the racist within. Its the same thing that caused their white ancestors to claim they set up a nation where "All men are created equal", while excluding blacks from that equation. Moreover, legislating that said blacks were just 3/5ths of a person.

You can see the racism dripping from her every post.

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[MarcATL]

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about AND you're a moderator.

Its no different than in the real world where we have to face people who share these views and sentiments who are our police, judges, lawyers and lawmakers.

This is the battle we face.

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[irosie91]

I would say no because whites dont understand objectivity. They believe what they think is correct..end of discussion. No one says you cant express opinions but when you are white and parade your opinions about what Black people think or how they live then you pretty much look like a fool. Whites have only paid attention to propaganda. Its a necessity for Blacks to understand whites.

It is impossible to discuss OBJECTIVELY that which cannot be OBJECTIVELY DEFINED -------"race" is a very nebulous concept

 

[Asclepias]

We would rather not be with non whites Then and now

I know a lot of white women that would disagree with you.

 

[toobfreak]

Republicans are 90% white. Their president thinks some Nazi's are good people. How do we know? He told us.

The main difference between Repubs and Dems is that Dems have more Hispanics and blacks, two low-income, uneducated minority groups, therefore, the democrats are lower educated. And whites tend to be hard workers, bread-winners, enterprising tax-payers more careful with their money and values, so republican do more of the work and pay most of the taxes while democrats reap more of the benefits. Don't take my word, it's all in your own data.

As to the Nazi thing, DO PLEASE share with us the video where Trump says some Nazis are good people! I want to hear the context that was said in. Who knows--- --- I don't know any Nazis much less ALL of them, I'm sure its possible that some of them might be good people at some level, just as I'm sure there are some good people in the Black Panthers, Antifa and BLM. It's the height of arrogance and bigotry to claim that ALL PEOPLE in any class or group are all this or that! I mean, isn't that the VERY THING the Left have fought for SIXTY YEARS to prove? So now what, you're denying it?

 

[Asclepias]

I would say no because whites dont understand objectivity. They believe what they think is correct..end of discussion. No one says you cant express opinions but when you are white and parade your opinions about what Black people think or how they live then you pretty much look like a fool. Whites have only paid attention to propaganda. Its a necessity for Blacks to understand whites.

It is impossible of discuss OBJECTIVELY that which cannot be OBJECTIVELY DEFINED -------"race" is a very nebulous concept

There is truth in this. Whites and Blacks dont even agree on race.