Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?

[JakeStarkey]

jwoodie, the OP is yours. Meet Essen's challenge, don't cry about white misprivilege, and just go ahead and talk.

 

[hjmick]

Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?


Yes, as long as none of the people involved in the conversation are racists. Of any color.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

It is impossible to discuss OBJECTIVELY that which cannot be OBJECTIVELY DEFINED -------"race" is a very nebulous concept

For something that is alledgedly so "very nebulous" U.S. legislators had no problems at all drafting laws which protected the rights of members of the white race while denying the same to members of the black race.

 

[LOIE]

I am specifically referring to the frequent assertions in this forum that Whites cannot understand Blacks and that they should not express any opinions about racial issues in the U.S. Combined with the latest canard about people having their own "realities," Where does that leave us? Is there any genuine interest in problem resolution, or is it all just a political guilt game designed to influence public opinion?

I am a white woman and have never felt like I can not express opinions about racial issues here. Actually, that's why I come here. I do believe that most white folks do not understand black folks. Not that they can't and won't ever be able to, but simply because most of us do not listen attentively and contemplate what has been shared. We are more likely to immediately respond with criticism, finger pointing and what-about-ism.

I have never quite gotten why so many of these conversations that start with race end up as political discussions. Aren't we able to think as individuals apart from political affiliation? Aren't we able to consider what another human being says and experiences without labeling them a liberal democrat or conservative republican? I think there are lots of areas of crossover and areas where agreement could be found if we made a genuine effort.

I hope we eventually can have legitimate, helpful conversations.

 

[harmonica]

....there are really no major, chronic problems with racism compared to other critical, more important issues
..there is not a major, chronic problem with police brutality against blacks as I've proven many times in many threads
...most of the ''racial'' problems are in the obsessed minds of racists

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We are owed money. Period.

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

Look at what this racist palooka is "contributing" to the discussion. Nice!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

What did I say that was incorrect?

Everything.

I guess that's your little secret, huh

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

 

[harmonica]

one of the problems you see right here on USMB:
you try to discuss civilly/ logically/etc with facts and the blacks call you RACIST
you try to discuss civilly and the blacks call you COWARD-isn't that the truth Paul E???????????

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hispanics are generally counted as Caucasian, so the real white participation is 49.6 percent, and more than five times the numbers of blacks.

 

[irosie91]

It is impossible to discuss OBJECTIVELY that which cannot be OBJECTIVELY DEFINED -------"race" is a very nebulous concept

For something that is alledgedly so "very nebulous" U.S. legislators had no problems at all drafting laws which protected the rights of members of the white race while denying the same to members of the black race.

Your observation is based on the FACT that early on in the USA----race distinction SEEMED clear. It was based upon just who was a sub-Saharan BLACK ----versus who was a "white" of ---WASP OR SCANDANAVIAN background. With immigration----the distinctions
could not be made ----except in the minds of the depraved. Keep in mind-----for quite a while "white" was a distinction OWNED by
THE CHURCH. Even back then----it was, of course, a baseless pile of
BS The Protestants who ruled south Africa were so depraved that they invented a COLORWHEEL to determine race------_SO? depravity makes it ok in your perverse mind?

 

[irosie91]

Hispanics are generally counted as Caucasian, so the real white participation is 49.6 percent, and more than five times the numbers of blacks.

Yes-----the BS NEW DESIGNATION "person of color" for Hispanics and anyone who claims MUSLIMAH WITH RAG ON MY HEAD.-----is just about the most perverted race issue that ever existed in history

 

[JakeStarkey]

It is impossible to discuss OBJECTIVELY that which cannot be OBJECTIVELY DEFINED -------"race" is a very nebulous concept

For something that is alledgedly so "very nebulous" U.S. legislators had no problems at all drafting laws which protected the rights of members of the white race while denying the same to members of the black race.

Your observation is based on the FACT that early on in the USA----race distinction SEEMED clear. It was based upon just who was a sub-Saharan BLACK ----versus who was a "white" of ---WASP OR SCANDANAVIAN background. With immigration----the distinctions
could not be made ----except in the minds of the depraved. Keep in mind-----for quite a while "white" was a distinction OWNED by
THE CHURCH. Even back then----it was, of course, a baseless pile of
BS The Protestants who ruled south Africa were so depraved that they invented a COLORWHEEL to determine race------_SO? depravity makes it ok in your perverse mind?

The Catholic legislators in South Carolina and Maryland certainly made perverse race color laws.

 

[jwoodie]

jwoodie, the OP is yours. Meet Essen's challenge, don't cry about white misprivilege, and just go ahead and talk.

It is interesting that you feel the need to speak for someone else on this thread. Are you Black or have some other credentials which allow this? Anyway...

My idea of an objective discussion is not to share one's emotions, but to describe actual problems and consider possible solutions. What I read in this forum is largely the former, with very little of the latter. It appears that a majority of the Black population feels victimized, as evidenced by Democratic voting patterns, yet they do not acknowledge that there are any solutions to this problem. If White people attempt to participate in this type of discussion, they are immediately shouted down as "not understanding."

My personal belief is that, for those Blacks who are unable or unwilling to deal with the larger American society, a structured organization like the Nation of Islam may offer the best hope for self-esteem and self-sufficiency. (This is similar to what the Mormon Church offers to its members.)

What say you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I have every right to participate if the forum rules do not expressly preclude certain posters.

You are describing yourself. We have actual problems in Appalachia and East Texas (lonestar appalachia) and in the Great Basin that truly degrade white lives.

Yet your problems you talk about always focus just on blacks. Are you black? Do You have some sort of expertise that makes you unique in this field.

Please speak objectively, jwoodie, which means be open to racial instruction.

 

[irosie91]

We are owed money. Period.

Your food stamps and free housing in your self created ghettos aren’t enough?

Look at what this racist palooka is "contributing" to the discussion. Nice!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

What did I say that was incorrect?

Everything.

I guess that's your little secret, huh

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

good---some, if not MOST----of the assistance programs IMPROVE the lives of persons who NEED that assistance

 

[irosie91]

It is impossible to discuss OBJECTIVELY that which cannot be OBJECTIVELY DEFINED -------"race" is a very nebulous concept

For something that is alledgedly so "very nebulous" U.S. legislators had no problems at all drafting laws which protected the rights of members of the white race while denying the same to members of the black race.

Your observation is based on the FACT that early on in the USA----race distinction SEEMED clear. It was based upon just who was a sub-Saharan BLACK ----versus who was a "white" of ---WASP OR SCANDANAVIAN background. With immigration----the distinctions
could not be made ----except in the minds of the depraved. Keep in mind-----for quite a while "white" was a distinction OWNED by
THE CHURCH. Even back then----it was, of course, a baseless pile of
BS The Protestants who ruled south Africa were so depraved that they invented a COLORWHEEL to determine race------_SO? depravity makes it ok in your perverse mind?

The Catholic legislators in South Carolina and Maryland certainly made perverse race color laws.

yes, they did------the were influenced by the founders of the INQUISITION

 

[jwoodie]

I am a white woman and have never felt like I can not express opinions about racial issues here. Actually, that's why I come here. I do believe that most white folks do not understand black folks. Not that they can't and won't ever be able to, but simply because most of us do not listen attentively and contemplate what has been shared. We are more likely to immediately respond with criticism, finger pointing and what-about-ism.

How utterly smug of you. Unlike most white folks, you understand black folks and are therefor free to express your opinions about racial issues. Just what are your objective contributions to these issues?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Your observation is based on the FACT that early on in the USA----race distinction SEEMED clear. It was based upon just who was a sub-Saharan BLACK ----versus who was a "white" of ---WASP OR SCANDANAVIAN background. With immigration----the distinctions
could not be made ----except in the minds of the depraved. Keep in mind-----for quite a while "white" was a distinction OWNED by
THE CHURCH. Even back then----it was, of course, a baseless pile of
BS The Protestants who ruled south Africa were so depraved that they invented a COLORWHEEL to determine race------_SO? depravity makes it ok in your perverse mind?

Why do you all keep flipping from the topic of racial relations in the United States which are the parameters I outlined I'd be willing to discuss to the racial state of affairs in the entire damn world? None of us that are U.S. citizens have the ability to impact or influence laws outside of the jurisdiction of the United States so interjecting the items above that you have appears to be nothing more than a deflection.

As far as depravity and perversion, what the hell do you think passing laws that allowed white people to subjugate and violate the basic human rights of people of African decent based solely on their race is called? Basic human rights includes the right to not be held in captivity, to not be raped with impunity, or whipped, or forced to endure back breaking work because you're captors were too "fragile" (aka depraved and perverse) to endure the southern heat, to have your children or other loved ones ripped away from you and sold. Black people of the United States are not the ones who instituted this legal system, white did this, but you already know this yet still try to make it seem like black people are somehow culpable for their own abuse and victimization.

It's the dishonesty involved that makes it difficult to have a rational and civil conversation on this or any topic. Let's face it, some white people never got over the fact that black people could no longer be held in capacity, could no longer be targeted for the most heinous of crimes without the perpetrators risking placig themselves in legal jeopardy and that we are as a people are beginning to make strides, personally, professionally, politically, financially, etc. in spite of the almost 200 year head start that whites legislatively received. And that depraved and perverse mindset that thought up the system of chattel slavery and institutional racism in the first place still persist in the minds of many racists today.

So I'm seeking solutions while it sort of stands to reason that the racists don't want to see people whom they consider beneath them, progress at all.

That's my take on it but I'm certainly willing to discuss where someone else believes I may be mistaken.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yes-----the BS NEW DESIGNATION "person of color" for Hispanics and anyone who claims MUSLIMAH WITH RAG ON MY HEAD.-----is just about the most perverted race issue that ever existed in history

Oh so you're not just a racist but you're a bigot as well. Okay.

 

[MisterBeale]

Is it possible to have an objective conversation about race?

ABSOLUTELY NOT POSSIBLE, because racism has been built up into this massive bloated political balloon. Now we have kooks seeking "reparations" for crimes never done them, nor their fathers, nor their fathers, fathers, fathers, father. Not that they can even show a debt. Then you have the absolutely disgusting, lying, cowardly, idiots like Asciepias (he compares himself to a milkweed?!), the most polarized, racist, unobjective person on the planet who pollutes EVERY thread about race with insane, indefensible remarks like "The white man doesn't understand objectivity." Now, according to this meathead, lack of objectivity now runs in the genes? This man is so full of reverse racism and quarter-baked rationalizations enough to make your head spin. So it is impossible to have intelligent, objective conversations about race with people who start out their life basing their entire ideology and philosophy and outlook on the world based on race, skin color, black power, and a hatred, animosity, envy and vengeance towards whites.

This is the race and racism section. So then what is A supposed to talk about? His lasagna recipe?

We are owed money. Period.

" 14“Now behold, he has a son who has observed all his father’s sins which he committed, and observing does not do likewise. 15“He does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife, 16or oppress anyone, or retain a pledge, or commit robbery, but he gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 17he keeps his hand from the poor, does not take interest or increase, but executes My ordinances, and walks in My statutes; he will not die for his father’s iniquity, he will surely live. 18“As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was not good among his people, behold, he will die for his iniquity.

19“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. 20“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

 

[Circe]

Combined with the latest canard about people having their own "realities," Where does that leave us? Is there any genuine interest in problem resolution, or is it all just a political guilt game designed to influence public opinion?

That! That! ^^^^ Well, and postmodern private realities, of course.
Everybody lurks in their own private reality bubble and you do NOT get to come into mine and try to change it.