Is it possible to abolish the House of Representatives?

[Pellinore]

It makes me feel good when I don't even need to say anything in inane threads like this.

Y'all keep at it.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Firstly, the lower house comes from the power of the plebeians, but there are no plebeians in the USA, therefore this is an unnecessary atavism.

Secondly, plebiscites are a security threat, because they contribute to the flourishing of the ochlocracy and the manipulation of public opinion.

In addition, it contributes to state inequality, as densely populated states have an advantage in the plebeian vote.

No, you need checks and balance. With one, the other has too much authority. In the UK, we have the Commons (House of Representatives - USA) and the Lords (The Senate - USA).

Who do the people vote for in the US? The Representatives or the Senators? We vote for local MP's that form the Commons, when they wish to create laws, they have to go through the Lords, otherwise, the Commons will just pass everything without scrutiny. Same in the US, (assuming I get this right), the Representatives want to pass a law but it goes through the Senate for scrutiny.

 

[rupol2000]

For the very reason you want it removed, it is the voice of the people.

The voice of the people is the Senate. They vote for those leaders who are well known for them, in the interests of their state. And the plebeian house is the voice of the swindlers who manipulate the masses.

 

[WinterBorn]

The voice of the people is the Senate. They vote for those leaders who are well known for them, in the interests of their state. And the plebeian house is the voice of the swindlers who manipulate the masses.

No. The senate is the voice of the people based on the states. The House is the voice of the people based on the populations. Eliminating the House of Representative would only put more power in the hands of fewer people.

You are half right in the post above. The senate does vote for the leaders who are well known to them. But whether it is in the interests of their state is debatable, at best.

 

[rupol2000]

No, you need checks and balance. With one, the other has too much authority. In the UK, we have the Commons (House of Representatives - USA) and the Lords (The Senate - USA).

Who do the people vote for in the US? The Representatives or the Senators? We vote for local MP's that form the Commons, when they wish to create laws, they have to go through the Lords, otherwise, the Commons will just pass everything without scrutiny. Same in the US, (assuming I get this right), the Representatives want to pass a law but it goes through the Senate for scrutiny.

In fact, there are no "checks and balances", there is a war between the right and the left, and for the left-wing scammers, the lower house is a convenient tool for manipulating the masses and putting pressure on the sparsely populated states.

As for England, there have been no right-wingers since the time of Thatcher, there is a totalitarian state that illegally holds Ireland against its will, by methods of terror, and so on.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The voice of the people is the Senate. They vote for those leaders who are well known for them, in the interests of their state. And the plebeian house is the voice of the swindlers who manipulate the masses.

"...in the interests of their state."

.....up until the passage of the 17th amendment.


Passed by Congress on May 13, 1912, and ratified on April 8, 1913, the 17th Amendment modified Article I, Section 3, of the Constitution by allowing voters to cast direct votes for U.S. senators. Prior to its passage, senators were chosen by state legislatures.Feb 8, 2022
https://www.archives.gov/milestone-...ess on May,were chosen by state legislatures.

17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Direct Election of ...​

https://www.archives.gov/milestone-...ess on May,were chosen by state legislatures.
https://www.archives.gov/milestone-...ess on May,were chosen by state legislatures.
The vote became part of the national ticket.

 

[rupol2000]

No. The senate is the voice of the people based on the states. The House is the voice of the people based on the populations.

So the states are not the population?

 

[Captain Caveman]

In fact, there are no "checks and balances", there is a war between the right and the left, and for the left-wing scammers, the lower house is a convenient tool for manipulating the masses and putting pressure on the sparsely populated states.

As for England, there have been no right-wingers since the time of Thatcher, there is a totalitarian state that illegally holds Ireland against its will, by methods of terror, and so on.

You were going so well, then your last paragraph highlighted the fact that you read too much CNN shite.

 

[rupol2000]

"...in the interests of their state."

.....up until the passage of the 17th amendment.


Passed by Congress on May 13, 1912, and ratified on April 8, 1913, the 17th Amendment modified Article I, Section 3, of the Constitution by allowing voters to cast direct votes for U.S. senators. Prior to its passage, senators were chosen by state legislatures.Feb 8, 2022
https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/17th-amendment#:~:text=Passed by Congress on May,were chosen by state legislatures.

17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Direct Election of ...​

https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/17th-amendment#:~:text=Passed by Congress on May,were chosen by state legislatures.
https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/17th-amendment#:~:text=Passed by Congress on May,were chosen by state legislatures.
The vote became part of the national ticket.

Yes, this should also be revisited. This also violates the principles of real direct democracy and opens up opportunities for mass manipulation.

 

[WinterBorn]

So the states are not the population?

Don't play semantics. The senate has two members from each state. The house has members based on populations of the states.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, this should also be revisited. This also violates the principles of real direct democracy and opens up opportunities for mass manipulation.

The US is not a democracy and never has been. You might want to start by learning about our system of gov't.

 

[rupol2000]

The US is not a democracy and never has been. You might want to start by learning about our system of gov't.

The United States has democracy in the best sense of the word: patriarchal traditions and real federalism, a politically literate population and institutions to control the appetites of the federals.There is no left communist "democracy" there yet, but it is getting closer

 

[WinterBorn]

The United States has democracy in the best sense of the word: patriarchal traditions and real federalism, a politically literate population and institutions to control the appetites of the federals.There is no left communist "democracy" there yet, but it is getting closer

View attachment 640864

We are a constitutional republic. In a true democracy freedoms and rights could be voted away. Groups of people could have their rights voted away.

And our patriarchal traditions are fading. Women are gaining more and more power. And that is a very good thing.

 

[rupol2000]

You might want to start by learning about our system of gov't.

federal government? Why is it "undemocratic" in your sence? Feds in the US differ from totalitarian "democracies" only in that they do not have as much power as in totalitarian countries. They have to reckon with the interests of the states. And the system is the same: a 2-chamber parliament, 3 main branches of government, and so on. How is this different from conventional left-wing governments?

 

[rupol2000]

We are a constitutional republic. In a true democracy freedoms and rights could be voted away. Groups of people could have their rights voted away.

And our patriarchal traditions are fading. Women are gaining more and more power. And that is a very good thing.

Can't your constitution be changed by plebiscite?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Can't your constitution be changed by plebiscite?

There are 3 ways to change the constitution. an amendment created by congress and passed by 3/4 of the states. a convention to change the whole thing created again by Congress OR by the States.

 

[WinterBorn]

Can't your constitution be changed by plebiscite?

Not by a simple majority, no.

 

[Pellinore]

No, you need checks and balance. With one, the other has too much authority. In the UK, we have the Commons (House of Representatives - USA) and the Lords (The Senate - USA).

Who do the people vote for in the US? The Representatives or the Senators? We vote for local MP's that form the Commons, when they wish to create laws, they have to go through the Lords, otherwise, the Commons will just pass everything without scrutiny. Same in the US, (assuming I get this right), the Representatives want to pass a law but it goes through the Senate for scrutiny.

We vote for both. There are 435 Representatives, who have to run every two years. I am in District 4 of the 11 that my State has (according to its population), so I will vote for that seat this November.

There's a little more history behind the Senate seats. Every State has its own government, mostly organized like smaller versions of the US government; originally, these State legislatures elected the Senators. Fear of corruption inspired us to change it in 1913, though, so now we each vote for our own Senators as well. They serve six-year terms, so 33 or 34 of the 100 Senators get re-elected every two years. My State will vote for one of my Senators this November, the other one in November of 2024, then 2026 is our year "off."

And, of course, because we have a Presidential system rather than a Parliamentary one, we have to vote for that office every four years, conveniently timed to coincide with both the leap years and the Summer Olympics. We don't vote for Supreme Court Justices; they are appointed.

 

[rupol2000]

Not by a simple majority, no.

It's just amazing. This gives hope that America will rise from its knees and save itself from the leftist plague.

I recently watched a plebiscite on constitutional amendments in one *well-known* country. Approximately 99.9% did not read it, and almost 100% still do not understand what they voted for.
It was not so easy to even find the text of these amendments, but they "voted" from commercials on TV.

It's not a joke, it's just the way it is.

 

[Pellinore]

The US is not a democracy and never has been. You might want to start by learning about our system of gov't.

We are not a direct democracy. A republic is a form of indirect democracy, and we are definitely that.