Is Israel Doomed By Obama/Democrat Policies, now?

[JoeB131]

Nope.

Israel is doomed because of Demographics....

Kind of like Apartheid South Africa was.

Very likely. They could save themselves as a Jewish state if they were willing simply to throw out all the Muslims, just as Muslim states everywhere kill or banish all the Jews and any other people following non-Islamic religions, but Islam supporters cleverly have a publicity system of huge outcry about any kind of defensive move against Islamists, so they can't do what Muslims routinely do.

It seems obvious to me that Israel needs to drive a lot of Palestinians into Syria, which richly deserves them, and normalize their borders with real states that have something to lose. And make Israel lozenge-shaped instead of the silly and unrealistic limited territory it is now.

I really don't think Israel is actually trying. They are failure looking for a date with history.

It's a bad sign that they keep pleading with us to do all their fighting for them. We aren't their pets or their servants.

I think it's more than that.

Back in the 1940's, the Zionists did EXACTLY what you suggested. They drove all the Muslims out of the pre-1967 borders. Jordan and Egypt took the rest, and left the Palestinians in that limbo. It was then that the Islamic states drove out all their Jews and most of them ended up in Israel.

Today they can't do that without the world being offended.

But there's more. of the world's 15 million or so Jews, six million live in Israel, about six million live in the US and Canada. The remainder live in Europe.

There's no great desire for those who don't live there to move there, and a lot of the ones who do would probably prefer to live in a place where their neighbors aren't trying to blow them up.

It was a terrible idea to start with, so I won't be upset when it fails.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope.

Israel is doomed because of Demographics....

Kind of like Apartheid South Africa was.

Wow you are as dumb as they come! First, South Africa always had a 90% BLACK population. Israel has a 75% Jewish population. You might say the Arabs reproduce faster, used to be true, but they have fallen in lines with the rest of the population. The population that does reproduce like rabbits is the Haredi Jews. They make up 1 mil of the population and have family sizes of 6-8 children. That well more than triple the current muslim family size.

Then immigration to Israel is high and is 90% Jewish.

The Demographics work in the Jews favor and against the Muslims.

But don't let your wishful thinking Bullshit stand in the was of facts!

First, Palestine was 90% Arab, until the European Ashininazi Jews started showing up because Europe didn't want them anymore.

Second- while "Israel Proper" has a 75% Jewish population, the population breaks down like this.

6 Million Jews.
1 Million Arabs in "Israel Proper"
4 milllion Arabs in the "Occuppied Territories"
2 million Palestinians living outside Palestine.

If you had one person, one vote and a right to return, Israel would be done.

But there's more.

More and more young Zionists are thinking that this whole "Holy Land" thing wasn't nearly as cool as their grandparents thought it was. Hitler's been dead a long time now. You can't keep playing the Hitler Card.

If they can immigrate to the US or Canada or even Europe, they do.

Frankly, I look forward to the day Israel is pushed into the Sea. Because it might get people to finally reconsider this whole "God" thing.

Such as, there isn't a God, and we should just enjoy our lives.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Get your facts right you ignorant piece of trash. Not one American soldier has every fought in ANY of Israel's wars, NOT ONE!!! In fact the only time foreign soldiers have fought along side Israeli soldiers was during the '52 Suez Canal Crisis and it was the US the ended the operation with the British and the French wanted to push on to secure the canal so Egypt couldn't close it against (as they did in '67)!

Contrary to douche bag conspiracy theorist, the US didn't go to war with Iraq for Israel. In fact, despite the fact Sadam hated Israel, his leadership was a good thing for Israel. He was a Sunni polarizing force to the Shia in Iran. Now that he is gone, they are another Shia regime in bed with Iran!

It's kind of hard for you to scream at Circe to get her facts straight when you claim the Suez crisis was in 1952 when in fact it happened in 1956. Eisenhower rightfully recognized that the Canal was the property of Egypt.

Second, the Zionists were the ones pushing for the toppling of Saddam. Them and their Neo-Con Amen Corner in the Pentagon.

The professional Military folks all said it was a terrible idea, but the NeoCons, most of whom avoided service in Vietnam- thought it was just wonderful.

The Zionists have not won a war since 1967. They keep asking us to bail them out, and we keep doing it.

 

[Circe]

... the Zionists were the ones pushing for the toppling of Saddam. Them and their Neo-Con Amen Corner in the Pentagon.

The professional Military folks all said it was a terrible idea, but the NeoCons, most of whom avoided service in Vietnam- thought it was just wonderful.

The Zionists have not won a war since 1967. They keep asking us to bail them out, and we keep doing it.

I subscribe to the Weekly Standard, for my sins ---- okay, for the book and movie reviews, which are excellent. I've been subscribing for YEARS so I see a lot of neocon Bill Kristol's warmongering on behalf of Israel and I HATE it. That man never saw a war he didn't want to jump right into, at least as long as it would help Israel. (He pays little attention to North Korea, of course.)

I think this is pretty awful.

This week the news says Israel is beginning to admit that probably it CAN'T attack Iran and win in the sense of destroying their nuclear facilities as they destroyed Saddam's Osirak.

So guess who they want to have a war with Iran instead? "Let's you and him fight!" is their motto.

Darn. Let's don't fight a war with Iran for Israel, okay?

 

[Circe]

Back in the 1940's, the Zionists did EXACTLY what you suggested. They drove all the Muslims out of the pre-1967 borders. Jordan and Egypt took the rest, and left the Palestinians in that limbo. It was then that the Islamic states drove out all their Jews and most of them ended up in Israel.

Today they can't do that without the world being offended.

But there's more. of the world's 15 million or so Jews, six million live in Israel, about six million live in the US and Canada. The remainder live in Europe.

There's no great desire for those who don't live there to move there, and a lot of the ones who do would probably prefer to live in a place where their neighbors aren't trying to blow them up.

It was a terrible idea to start with, so I won't be upset when it fails.

Yours is a very thoughtful post with many interesting points.

I don't think it was a terrible idea: I think it was a very good idea and certainly saved many Jews from the Holocaust, which was the original idea when the founder of Zionism came up with it during the Dreyfus Affair. Anyone who has read deeply about the Dreyfus Affair surely can only agree that it must have been quite disillusioning to European Jews as to their safety in Europe, in which, of course, the Zionists turned out to have been wholly correct. (I should say here that I am ethnically Methodist....but I like history. As a moderate conservative, I used to support Israel more than I do now, but I don't like the warmongering at USA expense.)

Your statistics for where Jews live are most enlightening; I hadn't realized they had all come either here or gone to Israel. Europe is obviously untenable for Jews, duh---- see: rank native antisemitism today in Poland and Hungary, rise of neonazism in Germany, and French tolerance of murderous antisemitism among Moslems in France. Nothing new here, virulent antisemitism in Europe rises and falls with the centuries; indeed, with the millennia. Jews tried to fix it with an onslaught of propaganda and political correctness laws after WWII, but my guess is they have failed, bigtime, first on the left (surprisingly!) and later on the right, as with conservatives starting to lose faith in Israel as I have, or beginning again the old-style antisemitism on the far right as one sees now. And I must say, I am tired of all the "oh, the poor Jews got Holocausted!!" carrying-on decade after decade. ENOUGH!! They shouldn't have gotten on those trains; they should have fought. I suppose a whole lot of people wonder why they didn't, though of course the smartest saw what was happening and emigrated, leaving the less bright and able to be holocausted, but still.

And now they want us to fight for Israel and want to guilt us into it: I won't support that.

Israel is NOT the 52nd state (we often wonder if Britain wants to be the 51st.) We owe them NOTHING. And I'm quite tired of the guilting. I've seen it done all my life and I'm finally saying --- no, I don't agree with any of that. If they didn't want people to hate them, maybe they shouldn't have pushed all that communism on everyone everywhere very disproportionately to their population. Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

Yes, I am aware that Israelis did what I am promoting back in 1967: very sensible!! And the then-king of Syria, Assad's father, killed some 10,000 Palestinians and Saudi Arabia deported theirs: NObody likes Palestinians, a bad lot wherever they are. That's why I wish Israel would just run them all into Syria again, the armpit of the world: they deserve each other. Besides, Syria is getting depopulated: there would be plenty of room.

I mean, hey, either Israel is a country or it isn't: why don't they protect and regularize their borders and their population?

You answer, "Today they can't do that without the world being offended."

Yes, Islamic propaganda against Israel has had great success. But who cares about "offended"? Sovereign states care about armies and navies and treaties and sanctions and most of all, about powers ganging up on them as the world ganged up on Nazi Germany once it became clear that they were mad dogs that would war and war and war on pretty much everyone till Hitler ruled the world, an unattractive prospect for anyone, not just Jews. WOULD the world gang up on Israel?

Israel has two major state-survival issues:

1) They have to get rid of the Palestinians in and around Israel and regularize their borders. Otherwise the state will die. They can't do this as in 1967 anymore, I agree: unless major war in the Mideast destabilizes everything. It would still be a bold move, not unlike Turkey's rather definitive way of dealing with Armenians, at least that is how many people would view it.

2) They have to keep Iran from getting nukes or Iran will surely nuke them or force the end of Israel as a Jewish state to avoid getting nuked. It appears they cannot do this; or they already would have. Israel is not shy about striking nuclear facilities if they can knock them out quickly.

So the bottom line is, Israel can't survive as a state unless they talk us into doing what they cannot do. It's either that or six million more Jews move to the U.S. and Canada when their state fails.

What do you think we should do about that?

Wait and see would work for me. See what happens, don't do anything. S.E.P., as Douglas Adams said: Somebody Else's Problem.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Good post but I will correct you on the matter of Israel being doomed. Israel will still be standing long after America has fallen. You can count on that.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Israel can, should and will take care of itself.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Nope.

Israel is doomed because of Demographics....

Kind of like Apartheid South Africa was.

Wow you are as dumb as they come! First, South Africa always had a 90% BLACK population. Israel has a 75% Jewish population. You might say the Arabs reproduce faster, used to be true, but they have fallen in lines with the rest of the population. The population that does reproduce like rabbits is the Haredi Jews. They make up 1 mil of the population and have family sizes of 6-8 children. That well more than triple the current muslim family size.

Then immigration to Israel is high and is 90% Jewish.

The Demographics work in the Jews favor and against the Muslims.

But don't let your wishful thinking Bullshit stand in the was of facts!

First, Palestine was 90% Arab, until the European Ashininazi Jews started showing up because Europe didn't want them anymore.

Second- while "Israel Proper" has a 75% Jewish population, the population breaks down like this.

6 Million Jews.
1 Million Arabs in "Israel Proper"
4 milllion Arabs in the "Occuppied Territories"
2 million Palestinians living outside Palestine.

If you had one person, one vote and a right to return, Israel would be done.

But there's more.

More and more young Zionists are thinking that this whole "Holy Land" thing wasn't nearly as cool as their grandparents thought it was. Hitler's been dead a long time now. You can't keep playing the Hitler Card.

If they can immigrate to the US or Canada or even Europe, they do.

Frankly, I look forward to the day Israel is pushed into the Sea. Because it might get people to finally reconsider this whole "God" thing.

Such as, there isn't a God, and we should just enjoy our lives.

Israel was a ghost town before the Jews returned in 1948. Have you ever read Mark Twains account? I hear there are liberal progressive revisionists busy at work on Twain now. lol... More and more American Jews are moving to Israel these days. There are many reasons for this but the number one reason is the Obama admin targeting of businesses and those who are wealthy. Look at California. Silicon Valley has made a mass exodus to Israel. The number of people moving to Israel is far greater than ever before. Joe doesn't know what he is talking about. As for his claim that there is no God? The Torah says that the fool says in his heart there is no God.

So according to God? Joe is a fool.

 

[freedombecki]

Hope the Middle East begins accepting each other and has peace forevermore.

 

[Circe]

Israel was a ghost town before the Jews returned in 1948. Have you ever read Mark Twains account? I hear there are liberal progressive revisionists busy at work on Twain now. lol... More and more American Jews are moving to Israel these days. There are many reasons for this but the number one reason is the Obama admin targeting of businesses and those who are wealthy. Look at California. Silicon Valley has made a mass exodus to Israel. The number of people moving to Israel is far greater than ever before.

Yes, I have read Mark Twain on the Holy Land. Good luck to the liberals on making Twain politically correct.......that would be a real job. When he saw a population that was barbaric, savage, depraved, and refusing to make any effort to improve themselves, he just hauled off and said so, loud. So Twain did not like the Palestinians, who are not much improved above that level even today, as far as I can see.

Good post but I will correct you on the matter of Israel being doomed. Israel will still be standing long after America has fallen. You can count on that.

Thank you, but can you say specifically why you say that? Because historically ---- that isn't what happened before so it's not obvious it will happen now. Let's see, Jews came from Egypt, stayed awhile, then there was the Babylonian Captivity when they were all ousted from Israel, then they came back, then the Romans came and conquered them and there was a great Diaspora after a number of massacres, then there was Mohammed and the Rise of Islam which drove out Christians and Jews from Palestine as it was by then and then there were the Crusaders who secured the area for a couple hundred years to Christians and Jews, but they failed in the end -- and in the early-middle 20th century Zionists re-established Israel, within our lifetimes.

You could probably do the history better, but that's my spur-of-the-moment account, and it DOES show that there is a firm routine of Jewish Israel standing, falling, standing, falling, again and again. Persistent, but not really overall successful in the long term. Though you can say that of many populations, of course: where are the Romans now.

So why do you think Israel will stand long after America/Rome is gone? Rome stood a thousand years, but did Israel? The history doesn't show that and it sure looks to be in dubious circumstances now, if they can't get us to fight their battles for them. Why NOT another diaspora?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Israel was a ghost town before the Jews returned in 1948. Have you ever read Mark Twains account? I hear there are liberal progressive revisionists busy at work on Twain now. lol... More and more American Jews are moving to Israel these days. There are many reasons for this but the number one reason is the Obama admin targeting of businesses and those who are wealthy. Look at California. Silicon Valley has made a mass exodus to Israel. The number of people moving to Israel is far greater than ever before.

Not really...

Bye, the beloved country - why almost 40 percent of Israelis are thinking of emigrating - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

40% of Israelis are thinking of getting the hell out. This is from a ZIONIST publication.

Joe doesn't know what he is talking about. As for his claim that there is no God? The Torah says that the fool says in his heart there is no God.

So according to God? Joe is a fool.

Hey, you know when I knew there wasn't a God.

My mom got cancer. EVERYONE in the Parish prayed for her to get better. They all liked her because she was a popular art teacher in the Parish.

She died anyway, clutching a rosary.

No God.

 

[Circe]

Hey, you know when I knew there wasn't a God.

My mom got cancer. EVERYONE in the Parish prayed for her to get better. They all liked her because she was a popular art teacher in the Parish.

She died anyway, clutching a rosary.

No God.

The best Christian answer to that is that Aslan is not a tame lion.


I'm sorry about your loss, Joe, especially now that it is near Mother's Day.