Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[Delta4Embassy]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

As a 42yo who's enjoyed sex with both males and females I don't believe x-sexuality as an orientation even exists. I think instead, we're just animals and are capable of having sex with whomever we desire at that moment. x-sexuality orientation is a relatively new concept. Until they were coined, people just had sex with no special delineation between gay or straight. It was such a non-issue in fact that most everyone we read about now in history books was by today's definitions bisexual. They married opposite sexed people, but for recreative or social bonding sex had such experiences with their own sex as well. No where is this more pronounced than in ancient Greek and Roman circles.

For ease of reference, I'm bisexual. Though I prefer to think of it as simply 'sexual.' I'm not automatically attracted to every man or every woman, and sexual attraction for me requires actually knowing someone personally. If I'm simply horny I masturbate. But before I involve another person's feelings and emotions I wanna make sure we're into each other beyond simply mutual desire to have a bit of fun. But the last thing on my mind is what sex they happen to be. Both are fun for different reasons, and in point of fact a lot of cross-over fun as well.

But we are unfortunately a label-obsessed society. I'm not sure why, but we distance ourselves throughout our experience into this or that labels. Liberal/conservative, black/white, gay/straight, rich/poor are some of the big ones. But as animals, I think in objective reality we're just human beings and what to most is a label difference between two people, is to me simply natural variation seen throughout nature. If people wanna break other people down into camps with labels that's their problem.

I mostly agree with you on your understanding of sexuality, though I tend to think of it as more of a spectrum. Some people keep to one side or the other and naturally do so. Few peopleexist in the middle.

Well sexual behaviours may well occur on a spectrum, but that doesn't then mean those behaviours EXIST on that spectrum. Merely they OCCUR on it. Objective reality is like things we observe among other animals. We are merely another species of primate this planet has given a shot at evolution (or conversely, even if you thump your Bible, another animal God created.) But be definition, anything other animals do is natural behaviour. Same-sex sexual behaviour in particular. Some 1500 other animals have been observed engaging in same-sex sexual behaviours but are those 'homosexual' animals? Probably not. Instead they're simply animals doing what animals do. So why should we be any different?

All the hetereo/homo/bisexual labels suggest we're special, but I don't beleive we are. We're just another primate blessed (or cursed) with advanced brains enabling us to complicate simple things.

 

[sameech]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

I haven't thought much about it. Does the origins of homosexuality have some relevance as to how we live in a society with homosexuals?

 

[AquaAthena]

Good morning all, in the Clean Debate Zone.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

EXACTLY where, in your bible, does god say "homosexuality is an abomination"?

EXACTLY.

Leviticus 18:22==GOD SAYS===Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That's what I thought.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

I haven't thought much about it. Does the origins of homosexuality have some relevance as to how we live in a society with homosexuals?

I think that's a good point.

Bottom line is, if its between consenting adults, its their business and other need to MYOB.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

You are ignorantof scripture, particularly Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said that nobody knows the day. "not the anglesinheaven or the son but only the father."

I know all you can do is insult people that disagree with you.


Homosexuality isn't frowned upon by scripture, and I doubt you take the bible seriously.

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

EXACTLY where, in your bible, does god say "homosexuality is an abomination"?

EXACTLY.

...Word 'homosexuality' didn't exist when the Torah was written. Thus, no Bible should say 'homosexuality' is...Anything.

Levticus 18:22 says 'men who lie with men, as men lie with women is an abomination.' In English anyway. Of course, more importantly is asking why if you don't identify as Jewish you're using a Jewish religious text? If you claim to be Christian, but are using the BIble to read about Godly things form, you're not a very good Christian since the first Christians didn't use what became the Bible centuries later. Instead they used single Gospels in circulation at the time, but entire OT+NT Bibles wouldn't exist for at least a thousand years.

 

[sameech]

Leviticus 18:22==GOD SAYS===Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That's what I thought.

Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10

Isn't that between them and God? What is one person's interest in another person's damnation or salvation?

 

[GISMYS]

god's word condemns homosexuality as an abomination!!!

exactly where, in your bible, does god say "homosexuality is an abomination"?

Exactly.

...word 'homosexuality' didn't exist when the torah was written. Thus, no bible should say 'homosexuality' is...anything.

Levticus 18:22 says 'men who lie with men, as men lie with women is an abomination.' in english anyway. Of course, more importantly is asking why if you don't identify as jewish you're using a jewish religious text? If you claim to be christian, but are using the bible to read about godly things form, you're not a very good christian since the first christians didn't use what became the bible centuries later. Instead they used single gospels in circulation at the time, but entire ot+nt bibles wouldn't exist for at least a thousand years.

lol!!! So you don't even know what God inspired(God breathed) books make up the Holybible??????????

 

[emilynghiem]

1 John 4:18 http://biblehub.com/1_john/4-18.htm
…17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love

Dear [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION]: Unlike Satan who seeks to divide and destroy you from achieving your calling, I SUPPORT you in your calling and also in CLEANING up your language so your message is received. Satan would delight in letting you divide and turn your audience away from you so you fail to communicate.

I do not rejoice in this, but seek to support you in speaking the message and spirit of the Bible in integrity, wholeness, and perfect love.

See below:
Your WORDS in Italics are Biblical and compassionate and wise.
Nothing wrong there.

But your yelling in BOLDFACE is skewed by fear of judgment.

This "BITCH-DOG" language is NOT the love of words of God.
Where in the Bible are we ever instructed to speak in this manner?

Please Do Not Let your words, and the beautiful wisdom and truth in the Bible
become as a "tool of Satan" through fear of judgment and punishment.

(And do not go around "bearing false witness" by claiming others are
doing what you, yourself, are doing instead -- accusing others of what you do here!)

Perfect Love casts out all Fear.

Please speak with LOVE and Divine GRACE, not with FEAR, and you will not have
ANY problem with Satan using God's words as any tool to divide conquer or reject truth

Thank you GISMYS
and I pray for complete and perfect unity, agreement, correction and understanding
in Christ Jesus so that all may be one with God with no fear of rejection or division.
Amen!
================================

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to—yes, vile and sinful things with each other’s bodies.
25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things.

26 That is why God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.Romans 1:24-27
===DO THOSE LIVING IN THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION REALLY WANT TO LIVE LIFE AS OR LOWER THAN ANIMALS AS BITCH DOGS!!! WHERE IS YOUR HONOR,PRIDE LOVE?????? MAN WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD NOT AS A BITCH dog!!!!

LIVING IN THE SEXUAL PERVERSION OF homosexuality ""IS"" a choice!!! Men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved. Romans 1:27 ==== SIN IS A CHOICE=A BAD CHOICE. THEIVES DESIRE TO STEAL SO THEY CHOOSE TO STEAL, LIARS DESIRE TO LIE SO THEY CHOSE TO BE LIARS. SIN IS A CHOICE!!!
So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to—yes, vile and sinful things with each other’s bodies. 25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things.

26 That is why God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.Romans 1:24-27
===DO THOSE LIVING IN THE SICK ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION REALLY WANT TO LIVE LIFE AS OR LOWER THAN ANIMALS AS BITCH DOGS!!! WHERE IS YOUR HONOR,PRIDE LOVE?????? MAN WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD NOT AS A BITCH dog!!!!

1 John 4:18 http://biblehub.com/1_john/4-18.htm
…17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love

 

[Luddly Neddite]

As a 42yo who's enjoyed sex with both males and females I don't believe x-sexuality as an orientation even exists. I think instead, we're just animals and are capable of having sex with whomever we desire at that moment. x-sexuality orientation is a relatively new concept. Until they were coined, people just had sex with no special delineation between gay or straight. It was such a non-issue in fact that most everyone we read about now in history books was by today's definitions bisexual. They married opposite sexed people, but for recreative or social bonding sex had such experiences with their own sex as well. No where is this more pronounced than in ancient Greek and Roman circles.

For ease of reference, I'm bisexual. Though I prefer to think of it as simply 'sexual.' I'm not automatically attracted to every man or every woman, and sexual attraction for me requires actually knowing someone personally. If I'm simply horny I masturbate. But before I involve another person's feelings and emotions I wanna make sure we're into each other beyond simply mutual desire to have a bit of fun. But the last thing on my mind is what sex they happen to be. Both are fun for different reasons, and in point of fact a lot of cross-over fun as well.

But we are unfortunately a label-obsessed society. I'm not sure why, but we distance ourselves throughout our experience into this or that labels. Liberal/conservative, black/white, gay/straight, rich/poor are some of the big ones. But as animals, I think in objective reality we're just human beings and what to most is a label difference between two people, is to me simply natural variation seen throughout nature. If people wanna break other people down into camps with labels that's their problem.

I mostly agree with you on your understanding of sexuality, though I tend to think of it as more of a spectrum. Some people keep to one side or the other and naturally do so. Few peopleexist in the middle.

Well sexual behaviours may well occur on a spectrum, but that doesn't then mean those behaviours EXIST on that spectrum. Merely they OCCUR on it. Objective reality is like things we observe among other animals. We are merely another species of primate this planet has given a shot at evolution (or conversely, even if you thump your Bible, another animal God created.) But be definition, anything other animals do is natural behaviour. Same-sex sexual behaviour in particular. Some 1500 other animals have been observed engaging in same-sex sexual behaviours but are those 'homosexual' animals? Probably not. Instead they're simply animals doing what animals do. So why should we be any different?

All the hetereo/homo/bisexual labels suggest we're special, but I don't beleive we are. We're just another primate blessed (or cursed) with advanced brains enabling us to complicate simple things.

If one does believe in a god, a magical super being created us, then he/she also created homosexuals.

Is that god so imperfect that he/she screwed up on such a large minority? I mean, he/she screwed up the male human so badly that we have to chop off part of his penis to fix god's mistake.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I mostly agree with you on your understanding of sexuality, though I tend to think of it as more of a spectrum. Some people keep to one side or the other and naturally do so. Few peopleexist in the middle.

Well sexual behaviours may well occur on a spectrum, but that doesn't then mean those behaviours EXIST on that spectrum. Merely they OCCUR on it. Objective reality is like things we observe among other animals. We are merely another species of primate this planet has given a shot at evolution (or conversely, even if you thump your Bible, another animal God created.) But be definition, anything other animals do is natural behaviour. Same-sex sexual behaviour in particular. Some 1500 other animals have been observed engaging in same-sex sexual behaviours but are those 'homosexual' animals? Probably not. Instead they're simply animals doing what animals do. So why should we be any different?

All the hetereo/homo/bisexual labels suggest we're special, but I don't beleive we are. We're just another primate blessed (or cursed) with advanced brains enabling us to complicate simple things.

If one does believe in a god, a magical super being created us, then he/she also created homosexuals.

Is that god so imperfect that he/she screwed up on such a large minority? I mean, he/she screwed up the male human so badly that we have to chop off part of his penis to fix god's mistake.

Problem with the 'God also mader some homosexual' arguement is God made pigs, made them very tasty, yet forbade eating them. So it's logical God may have made some homosexual yet expect them to remain celibate. Assuming God exists for the sake of example.

 

[Inevitable]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

I haven't thought much about it. Does the origins of homosexuality have some relevance as to how we live in a society with homosexuals?

Not really, just thought it would be an interesting topic.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well sexual behaviours may well occur on a spectrum, but that doesn't then mean those behaviours EXIST on that spectrum. Merely they OCCUR on it. Objective reality is like things we observe among other animals. We are merely another species of primate this planet has given a shot at evolution (or conversely, even if you thump your Bible, another animal God created.) But be definition, anything other animals do is natural behaviour. Same-sex sexual behaviour in particular. Some 1500 other animals have been observed engaging in same-sex sexual behaviours but are those 'homosexual' animals? Probably not. Instead they're simply animals doing what animals do. So why should we be any different?

All the hetereo/homo/bisexual labels suggest we're special, but I don't beleive we are. We're just another primate blessed (or cursed) with advanced brains enabling us to complicate simple things.

If one does believe in a god, a magical super being created us, then he/she also created homosexuals.

Is that god so imperfect that he/she screwed up on such a large minority? I mean, he/she screwed up the male human so badly that we have to chop off part of his penis to fix god's mistake.

Problem with the 'God also mader some homosexual' arguement is God made pigs, made them very tasty, yet forbade eating them. So it's logical God may have made some homosexual yet expect them to remain celibate. Assuming God exists for the sake of example.

Thank you [MENTION=46449]Delta4Embassy[/MENTION]
Yes, you are perceptive to be open to this understanding that SOME are for different reasons --
not all the same, as those assume who have no ability to discern the difference, as most of us don't.

Matthew 19:12
12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb;
and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

There was a Catholic priest who remained celibate and explained his calling this way.
Another Christian theology grad student who, after praying and not receiving any healing or change came to an understanding that God made her this way -- which she used in her ministry to teach others "the difference" and she helped many other fellow Christians to understand that some are NOT unnaturally made by lust, and are just "born that way for a spiritual reason." SOME are this way in life for spiritual reasons; it may be to help address wrongs in an unconditional way.

If we can learn, accept and forgive that "only God" can discern the difference between which of these three cases is which,
that is another way to let go of judgment, forgive and trust in God, not our own understanding in trying to judge people when we don't know God's full plan or purpose for each soul.

The sins and wrongs can still be wrong, but it is NOT our "place to judge" because God has his reasons.
If we trust to leave this between them and God, then God will still work things out and does not "depend on us to pass judgment for him."

The only thing wrong I see here, is not teaching forgiveness and healing, but promoting rejection of it.
So yes, if people promoting homosexuality as natural or those who condemn it as unnatural
BOTH missing the point about "forgiveness and healing," they are BOTH causing harm by denying this gift to others.
[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] complains that I am a stumbling block, but promoting "unforgiveness" that blocks healing and destroys relations,
is probably the worst stumbling block. Passing the buck of unforgiveness to other people to create bigger spiritual debts and damages.

Unconditional love and forgiveness can heal all wounds and correct all wrongs.
But we must ask. And we cannot ask in unity if we are divided by fear of rejection and judgment.
We need to heal our relations first, and then these other issues can be resolved in that spirit.

 

[sameech]

Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10

Isn't that between them and God? What is one person's interest in another person's damnation or salvation?

To learn forgiveness that such persons may also find salvation.

The first part does not make sense. Only God can forgive them for salvation purposes, so it still is between them and God. What is my interest in whether or not someone else is saved?

 

[Inevitable]

to learn forgiveness that such persons may also find salvation.

the first part does not make sense. Only god can forgive them for salvation purposes, so it still is between them and god. What is my interest in whether or not someone else is saved?

believers are to give the lost the word of god and warn them of the cost of living in sin!!!

You aren't speaking to the lost, you aren't speaking to anybody you are just ranting and it isn't on topic.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Ultimately this all boils down to homosexuality's only a sin if you're believe in a given religion which says that. But all religions came from some previous version, and not all of them say it's sinful or wrong. And the ones that do aren't the original religious systems, not even Judaism. Oldest extant religion (still around and practiced) is Hinduism and it doesn't have a problem with homosexuality.

Homosexuality and Hinduism - ReligionFacts

But even if we take the oldest estimate for Hindum at about 10,000 years, that's no where even close to the oldest known religions which so far are dated to about 65,000 years. So putting all your emotional, intellectual, and spiritual faith in a system just a couple thousand years old reveals a complete ignorance of the history of religions.

But for religion, no one says homosexuality is bad, wrong, or naughty. So objectively, if someone does, F* 'em.

 

[Inevitable]

believers are to give the lost the word of god and warn them of the cost of living in sin!!!

You aren't speaking to the lost, you aren't speaking to anybody you are just ranting and it isn't on topic.

THOSE LIVING IN SEXUAL PERVERSION ARE LOST

This has nothing to do with the topic.

Please go wax religious in the religion forum.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi [MENTION=38085]Noomi[/MENTION]
What about the people who were not,
but whose sexual behavior resulted from rape or repeated abuse?

You are born that way.

You don't have to believe that such cases exist.
But to "deny the possibility" makes you lose credibility
with people who have experienced and reported this, themselves,
or have friends who suffered it and went through therapy to heal afterwards.

If you leave these cases out, you sound as close minded to truth
as those who INSIST that "all cases are UNNATURAL"
which excludes the many people who report otherwise.

Why not acknowledge "it is possible" for those other cases of "unnatural abuse" to exist,
where people claim to have returned to their original orientation
after healing from abuse that affected their behavior?
Both homosexual and heterosexual people have benefited from
spiritual healing and forgiveness therapy to recovery from abuse, so it isn't just targeting gays.

What is wrong with acknowledging those cases?
Where people of either orientation healed from sexual abuse that wasn't natural?

You can still argue that some are BORN and not caused by abuse.
It does not hurt your argument or beliefs, but helps them by not discrediting you
as ignorant and "deliberately excluding" other cases where people experienced unnatural abuse.

What does it hurt to be open to DIFFERENT cases as all being possible?

You seem like a deeply caring person, with sincere convictions,
and I commend you for speaking out in defense of others.

Please reconsider how to be more inclusive, since that is the key point we are trying to promote!
All people I've met concerned about this issue want their experiences and information to be INCLUDED.
Why can't we see that these cases are different for each person, and do not have to contradict each other?
Why can't they all be happening at once, and nobody is wrong about the parts we have seen and understand are true?

 

[Inevitable]

Hi [MENTION=38085]Noomi[/MENTION]
What about the people who were not,
but whose sexual behavior resulted from rape or repeated abuse?

You are born that way.

You don't have to believe that such cases exist.
But to "deny the possibility" makes you lose credibility
with people who have experienced and reported this, themselves,
or have friends who suffered it and went through therapy to heal afterwards.

If you leave these cases out, you sound as close minded to truth
as those who INSIST that "all cases are UNNATURAL"
which excludes the many people who report otherwise.

Why not acknowledge "it is possible" for those other cases to exist,
where people claim to have returned to their original orientation
after healing from abuse that affected their behavior?
Both homosexual and heterosexual people have benefited from
spiritual healing and forgiveness therapy to recovery from abuse.

What is wrong with acknowledging those cases?

You can still argue that some are BORN and not caused by abuse.
It does not hurt your argument or beliefs, but helps them by not discrediting you
as ignorant and "deliberately excluding" other cases where people experienced unnatural abuse.

What does it hurt to be open to DIFFERENT cases as all being possible?

prove they are possible.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Who we decide to be sexual with is a choice. Who we're attracted to is the result of conditioning. We could therefore condition somoene to be attracted to same-sex sexes, or they could be traumatized into it as with rape or childhood abuse.

American culture is heterosexualized. It's from different color clothese and wristbands in the hospital, bliue for boys, pink for girls onwards. Gender roles like that condition us boys are one thing, girls are another and because we're different, we're supposed tounite. Doesn't help that unfortunately nature seems to conspire against us too with (so far...) only males with females can make babies without technological assistance, nor that opposite poles of a magnet attract each other but same-poles repel. (Given that fact I'm always surprised no one against homosexuality mentions it, "See! Even nature's against it!")