Is Drilling equivalent to Welfare?

[midcan5]

i managed a Goodwill for a year. the starting wage for my workers was $6.75 an hour and would increase over time depending on a variety of things, up to $7.50 an hour. when i left the company, i asked many of the workers why they didnt go find a higher paying job. their answers? they didnt have cars and had no way of getting to other locations. physical limitations such as arthritis or bad backs limited the work they could do. not being able to afford going 3 or 4 weeks without a paycheck. not being able to afford going without health insurance for any amount of time.

i had 2 people (out of 19) move on for better jobs. one went to ITT Tech and became a customer support technician (he was able to afford it because his mother, his girlfriends mother, his brother, and his girlfriend all chipped in). the other had a friend who worked at a phone help desk company, and he was able to get her a job there.

so some people were able to move up. many others were stuck. it shouldnt be so difficult to better oneself.

It is so nice to hear a voice of reason and experience. Bravo.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's not difficult to better yourself. You just hve to have guts to do it. People who have no money can go to school. They have to jump through hoops to acquire grants and loans, but ANYBODY can do it. You don't need a car, you don't need anything except a willingness to get it done.

I work as a case worker and I've heard every excuse in the book for people not trying for better jobs. I've referred them to USA jobs, to schools, to the state, to employment centers. They don't want to do it. It's difficult and it requires follow through and it intimidates them. But it's SUPPOSED to be a little difficult, or there would be no sense of accomplishment, and achievement wouldn't be WORTH anything. Add that to the reluctance of people to move. They'd rather be on welfare half the time and work at menial jobs the rest of the time, and see their kids suffer through poverty than actually look for a good job that they are qualified for, or a school they could attend, outside of the area they're used to.

 

[Anguille]

Welfare is money taken from those that work to give to those that do not.

By that reasoning, children in public schools are receiving welfare in the form of education and subsidized meals.

Anyone who learned reading, writing and 'rithmatic on the government's dime started out on welfare. People don't like to recognize that. They prefer to bombast about how they clawed their way up, are self made men, earned every dollar they've earned by their own effort alone....

 

[BrianH]

By that reasoning, children in public schools are receiving welfare in the form of education and subsidized meals.

Anyone who learned reading, writing and 'rithmatic on the government's dime started out on welfare. People don't like to recognize that. They prefer to bombast about how they clawed their way up, are self made men, earned every dollar they've earned by their own effort alone....

You're logic is flawed, considering anyone under 16 (at least in Texas anyway) is not allowed to hold a formal job. What RGS means is that people who are capable of working legally but choose to suck off the rest of the population. Everyone in our society who can and want to work are working. There are many that can't work, but their are also many who won't work. Welfare is a good program if it were unabused. I have no problem helping someone get over a rough patch and get back on their feet. By all mean, take some money out of my check if it'll keep a hard-working family out of the gutter. What I do not like to tolerate, is my hard-earned money going to a repeated welfare recipient who cannot keep a job, keeps having children (even though financially stricken), relys on a child-support check for income, lives in a run-down home, and drives a Lexus. There are many possible scenarios, but this is one I've witnessed personally. IMO, if I have to unrinate in a cup to earn my money, that drug-dealer on welfare needs to piss in a cup to get it.

 

[BrianH]

i managed a Goodwill for a year. the starting wage for my workers was $6.75 an hour and would increase over time depending on a variety of things, up to $7.50 an hour. when i left the company, i asked many of the workers why they didnt go find a higher paying job. their answers? they didnt have cars and had no way of getting to other locations. physical limitations such as arthritis or bad backs limited the work they could do. not being able to afford going 3 or 4 weeks without a paycheck. not being able to afford going without health insurance for any amount of time.

i had 2 people (out of 19) move on for better jobs. one went to ITT Tech and became a customer support technician (he was able to afford it because his mother, his girlfriends mother, his brother, and his girlfriend all chipped in). the other had a friend who worked at a phone help desk company, and he was able to get her a job there.

so some people were able to move up. many others were stuck. it shouldnt be so difficult to better oneself.

Wow, that sucks. I'm sure there are many personal factors that contribute to things. One I see alot is priorities. Granted, there are those who try and are unable to succeed, however, there are many who simply have bad priorities. I've had people come up to me and beg for money to go buy their kids some bread and milk, all while holding a cigarrette in between their two fingers and having a box of cigs in their front shirt pocket. (It's funny they don't have $.89 for a loaf of bread and $3.50 for a gallon of milk, yet they cna scrounge up $5.99 for a box of cigarrettes. I've seen people pull up at the human resources department to get a welfare check in a lexus, BMW, and nicer vehicles than I drive, and I work for a living.

I used to work at a grocery store when I was in high school, and I'd see people come to the checkout with a basket full of groceries (All bought on W.I.C.). Then they'd buy a case of beer, cigarettes, and other non-essentials with their own cash. All while their 6 children ran-around bare-footed and half-clothed in the store taking bites out of apples, oranges, and other fruits and leave them on the floor. It made me sick to see someone who would spend $15.00 + on a case of beer and $5.99 on a box of cigs...instead of saving it to buy their kids some clothes.

I know everyone isn't like this, but I've seen MANY who are. If I had to guess the percentage of responsible and prioritized welfare recipients that I witnessed used their welfare cards responsibly, I'd say maybe %20. There were some who would come in and buy essentials and obviously save their money. They would buy the cheapest food items they could and save the rest.

I realize some people do need welfare, but we really need to fix the system that hands out our money to irresponsible and ambitionless people.

 

[AllieBaba]

I have a problem, however, with people who judge welfare recipients based upon what they see them buying with their foodstamps. You don't see the whole picture. I have worked (hard) and also received FS. My fs allotment (it's a well-funded program thanks to FARMING SUBSIDIES and surplus) was more than we could eat in a month if we were frugal. We had little money for anything else...but by golly we ate like kings and if that's the only way you can splurge on your family, I've got absolutely no problem with people using their fs to buy crabs legs, lobster, steak, birthday cakes, etc.

and of course a lot of welfare people have myriad issues....substance abuse being a big one. But just an inability to make good choices another. Just don't fall into the trap of being resentful because you see a family buying high-end items with food stamps. There could be a perfectly reasonable reason for it. And if they want to have a celebration, and have lots of food stamps for food, and enough money to buy a case of beer besides, are you really going to begrudge them? Provided they aren't trading the fs for the beer, or buying beer when their kid needs sunscreen?

 

[busara]

Wow, that sucks. I'm sure there are many personal factors that contribute to things. One I see alot is priorities. Granted, there are those who try and are unable to succeed, however, there are many who simply have bad priorities. I've had people come up to me and beg for money to go buy their kids some bread and milk, all while holding a cigarrette in between their two fingers and having a box of cigs in their front shirt pocket. (It's funny they don't have $.89 for a loaf of bread and $3.50 for a gallon of milk, yet they cna scrounge up $5.99 for a box of cigarrettes. I've seen people pull up at the human resources department to get a welfare check in a lexus, BMW, and nicer vehicles than I drive, and I work for a living.

I used to work at a grocery store when I was in high school, and I'd see people come to the checkout with a basket full of groceries (All bought on W.I.C.). Then they'd buy a case of beer, cigarettes, and other non-essentials with their own cash. All while their 6 children ran-around bare-footed and half-clothed in the store taking bites out of apples, oranges, and other fruits and leave them on the floor. It made me sick to see someone who would spend $15.00 + on a case of beer and $5.99 on a box of cigs...instead of saving it to buy their kids some clothes.

I know everyone isn't like this, but I've seen MANY who are. If I had to guess the percentage of responsible and prioritized welfare recipients that I witnessed used their welfare cards responsibly, I'd say maybe %20. There were some who would come in and buy essentials and obviously save their money. They would buy the cheapest food items they could and save the rest.

I realize some people do need welfare, but we really need to fix the system that hands out our money to irresponsible and ambitionless people.

you raise some good points. many people do seem content to never advance and waste their money. and their are people who abuse the welfare system. the problem is the people who are truly stock get lost in the mess, and often suffer more because of the abusers.

 

[BrianH]

I have a problem, however, with people who judge welfare recipients based upon what they see them buying with their foodstamps. You don't see the whole picture. I have worked (hard) and also received FS. My fs allotment (it's a well-funded program thanks to FARMING SUBSIDIES and surplus) was more than we could eat in a month if we were frugal. We had little money for anything else...but by golly we ate like kings and if that's the only way you can splurge on your family, I've got absolutely no problem with people using their fs to buy crabs legs, lobster, steak, birthday cakes, etc.

and of course a lot of welfare people have myriad issues....substance abuse being a big one. But just an inability to make good choices another. Just don't fall into the trap of being resentful because you see a family buying high-end items with food stamps. There could be a perfectly reasonable reason for it. And if they want to have a celebration, and have lots of food stamps for food, and enough money to buy a case of beer besides, are you really going to begrudge them? Provided they aren't trading the fs for the beer, or buying beer when their kid needs sunscreen?

I have no problem seeing people by good food with their stamps. What I do have a problem with, is people buying everything with foodstamps, then turning around and spending $50.00 on cigs, beer, and other non-essential items. And that's exactly what I'm saying. When people are blowing their money (That they should be saving) when their kids don't have shoes or clothes and haven't had a bath in days, there's a problem.

If people want to buy lobster with their foodstamps, that's fine...because their using up their foodstamps as anyone else would their money. But they should not bitch about not having any money to feed their kids when they're blowing it all on beer, booze, and cigs.... Basically, they're having the rest of us pay for their food, while they pay for their fun....(it's very smart, but very unethical and it makes me mad)

 

[BrianH]

you raise some good points. many people do seem content to never advance and waste their money. and their are people who abuse the welfare system. the problem is the people who are truly stock get lost in the mess, and often suffer more because of the abusers.

Exactly, there are people their that actually really NEED the money to get out of a bad spot. They actually spend their welfare money wisely and save their own money. While many welfare recipients ,IMO, take money from the ones who really need it by blowing their own money on non-essential items.

 

[AllieBaba]

Maybe they did save that $50 for just this event. And what does whether their kids have had a bath today have to do with the way they spend their money?

Most of the mothers who come into my office already work, and hard, but just don't make enough to pay all their bills. When you have a $200 electric bill, a $400 rent bill and your telephone has been cut off, and you get a windfall of $50 (say your mom sends it to you)...and that $50 isn't going to prevent the electricity from being shut off, or do anything to stop the eviction notice....who cares if they get a case of beer? I mean, they probably shouldn't. But if you can't get shoes for 3 kids for $50, and all three need them....and the money is just wasted money elsewhere, I say have a flipping party.

People don't understand how constantly living in poverty erodes your ability to think clearly, and destroys your ability to make a good choice. They're all bad choices, nothing you do really can get you ahead and you become defeatist.

 

[BrianH]

Maybe they did save that $50 for just this event. And what does whether their kids have had a bath today have to do with the way they spend their money?

The fact that they don't want to pay a water bill. That's exactly what I'm talking about, they need to save that money for getting out of the hole, or for food, or for an emergency, or for insurance, or for a vehicle, or for bills. Not for getting wasted and or feeding an addictive habit. They can do that when they can financially support themselves and their addicting habit.

Most of the mothers who come into my office already work, and hard, but just don't make enough to pay all their bills. When you have a $200 electric bill, a $400 rent bill and your telephone has been cut off, and you get a windfall of $50 (say your mom sends it to you)...and that $50 isn't going to prevent the electricity from being shut off, or do anything to stop the eviction notice....who cares if they get a case of beer? I mean, they probably shouldn't. But if you can't get shoes for 3 kids for $50, and all three need them....and the money is just wasted money elsewhere, I say have a flipping party.

"They probably shouldn't"--that's exactly right...

That's a bad attitude Allie. I don't get money taken out of my check to help a poorer family have a party. “Give me a fish and I eat for a day. Teach me to fish and I eat for a lifetime.” (chinese proverb. I don't care what anybody says, you can by three pairs of children's shoes for $50.00. They may not be Nike's or Rebbok, but they'll cover your feet and keep you from pulling stickers out of your feet.

People don't understand how constantly living in poverty erodes your ability to think clearly, and destroys your ability to make a good choice. They're all bad choices, nothing you do really can get you ahead and you become defeatist.

Well then something needs to be done...if you can't rationally spend your money, then you don't need to be given someone elses money for free to irrationally spend. That money that is taken out of my paycheck can go towards my bill and my kids rather than someone else's beer and party favors...

Here's a scenario. Say you're at a job (any job) and you've been working really hard. You're off on the coming Friday and you can't wait. Your co-worker comes up and asks you if you could work for him/her on Friday because he has a family emergency. You feel sympathy for him/her so you agree to give up your day off to allow your co-worker to have the day off in order to deal with the emergency. On Saturday, your co-worker returns to work telling the rest of the co-workers (except you) about the great parties he/she went to on Friday night and how he/she had such a great time...you then realize that there was no family emergency and your co-worker actually had you give up your day off so that he/she could go partying...

How would that make you feel?

 

[busara]

Maybe they did save that $50 for just this event. And what does whether their kids have had a bath today have to do with the way they spend their money?

Most of the mothers who come into my office already work, and hard, but just don't make enough to pay all their bills. When you have a $200 electric bill, a $400 rent bill and your telephone has been cut off, and you get a windfall of $50 (say your mom sends it to you)...and that $50 isn't going to prevent the electricity from being shut off, or do anything to stop the eviction notice....who cares if they get a case of beer? I mean, they probably shouldn't. But if you can't get shoes for 3 kids for $50, and all three need them....and the money is just wasted money elsewhere, I say have a flipping party.

People don't understand how constantly living in poverty erodes your ability to think clearly, and destroys your ability to make a good choice. They're all bad choices, nothing you do really can get you ahead and you become defeatist.

have you read Nickel and Dimed: On (not) Getting by in America; and/or Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream ?

i found them quite interesting

 

[Anguille]

People don't understand how constantly living in poverty erodes your ability to think clearly, and destroys your ability to make a good choice. They're all bad choices, nothing you do really can get you ahead and you become defeatist.

Thoughtful post. Many people who have never experienced poverty cannot imagine how stressful it can be and how stress can interfere with your ability to think out useful, long term solutions to your problems.

 

[Anguille]

Well then something needs to be done...if you can't rationally spend your money, then you don't need to be given someone elses money for free to irrationally spend. That money that is taken out of my paycheck can go towards my bill and my kids rather than someone else's beer and party favors...

Here's a scenario. Say you're at a job (any job) and you've been working really hard. You're off on the coming Friday and you can't wait. Your co-worker comes up and asks you if you could work for him/her on Friday because he has a family emergency. You feel sympathy for him/her so you agree to give up your day off to allow your co-worker to have the day off in order to deal with the emergency. On Saturday, your co-worker returns to work telling the rest of the co-workers (except you) about the great parties he/she went to on Friday night and how he/she had such a great time...you then realize that there was no family emergency and your co-worker actually had you give up your day off so that he/she could go partying...

How would that make you feel?

Are you saying that money taken out of your paycheck would be spent paying your bills and not for buying your own beer?

 

[busara]

Are you saying that money taken out of your paycheck would be spent paying your bills and not for buying your own beer?

i like my beer

mmmm, smithwicks

 

[BrianH]

Are you saying that money taken out of your paycheck would be spent paying your bills and not for buying your own beer?

No, what I'm saying is that I would rather the money NOT be taken out of my paycheck so that I can pay bills, rather than the money being taken out for someone else to party...

And, if I decided to buy beer...I can afford it.

 

[sealybobo]

It's not difficult to better yourself. You just hve to have guts to do it. People who have no money can go to school. They have to jump through hoops to acquire grants and loans, but ANYBODY can do it. You don't need a car, you don't need anything except a willingness to get it done.

I work as a case worker and I've heard every excuse in the book for people not trying for better jobs. I've referred them to USA jobs, to schools, to the state, to employment centers. They don't want to do it. It's difficult and it requires follow through and it intimidates them. But it's SUPPOSED to be a little difficult, or there would be no sense of accomplishment, and achievement wouldn't be WORTH anything. Add that to the reluctance of people to move. They'd rather be on welfare half the time and work at menial jobs the rest of the time, and see their kids suffer through poverty than actually look for a good job that they are qualified for, or a school they could attend, outside of the area they're used to.

1. I feel sorry for anyone who gets stuck with you as their caseworker.

2. no wonder you are bitter. you're like a prison guard.

3. I make 2 times what you make.

lol

 

[DiamondDave]

And I probably make 2 times what you make... nanny nanny boo boo

Jesus.... how childish can you freaking get? Bad enough you support socialism....

 

[Charles_Main]

I make a good living, but it comes at a cost. I am away from my wife and kids for 3 weeks at a time while I am driving. However seeing how I live in Michigan (10% unemployment) my current job is really my only good choice.

 

[jreeves]

And I probably make 2 times what you make... nanny nanny boo boo

Jesus.... how childish can you freaking get? Bad enough you support socialism....

Not uh, I make 2 times more than you

My god I thought his other posts were the biggest displays of ignorance....
He just out did himself.....