Is Drilling equivalent to Welfare?

[DiamondDave]

I'm not denying that you EARNED your retirement.

I AM denying that capitalism is paying your salary though.

SOCIETY is paying your salary now, just as it paid your salary when you were in the military.

Pretending that you are not the beneficary of the collectivism of society is absurd while at the same time, you are whining about social security and socialism.

You entire career benefitted from (what you call) socialism, sporto.

No... the military system is paying his salary.... by definition, what he is receiving is not a socialist entitlement.... that would be your little welfare checks and various other handouts for nothing....

jobs within government does not make that system a socialist one.... nor is it inherently a result of collectivism....

socialism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

nice try

 

[sealybobo]

no... The Military System Is Paying His Salary.... By Definition, What He Is Receiving Is Not A Socialist Entitlement.... That Would Be Your Little Welfare Checks And Various Other Handouts For Nothing....

Jobs Within Government Does Not Make That System A Socialist One.... Nor Is It Inherently A Result Of Collectivism....

socialism - Definition From The Merriam-webster Online Dictionary

Nice Try

Wrong. Cops, Airforce Pensions, Congressional Pensions, Firemen Are All Being Paid By Our Tax Dollars Stupid So It Is Socialist!!!!

 

[editec]

No... the military system is paying his salary.... by definition, what he is receiving is not a socialist entitlement.... that would be your little welfare checks and various other handouts for nothing....

jobs within government does not make that system a socialist one.... nor is it inherently a result of collectivism....

socialism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

nice try

By whose definition?

Yours?

 

[DiamondDave]

By whose definition?

Yours?

try the definition of socialism

 

[midcan5]

But what is SS and socialism in general, if not government interference in your life?

The government shouldn't even own the land to begin with.

As opposed to welfare, which is just theft.

I think you are a bit of a utopian if you think people will do the right thing with our world. SS is insurance, it is insurance against the ups and down of life and is a small payment if our wages are sufficient. I have paid for 40 years now and counting.

If the government didn't own land our coastlines along with much of the US would be ruined, I may be liberal but I don't take a utopian view that freedom = wonderfulness.

Welfare is hardly theft as every citizen has a right to the resources of the land where they work and support. Welfare needs guidelines but it is hardly theft.

 

[DiamondDave]

Wrong. Cops, Airforce Pensions, Congressional Pensions, Firemen Are All Being Paid By Our Tax Dollars Stupid So It Is Socialist!!!!

Governmental systems and activities are not all socialist because they are government run and because a government is funded, in part, on taxation of the populous...

try actually understanding the concept of socialism

 

[midcan5]

So ... in other words... you want this forced upon business... you are against the freedom our forefathers fought for...

In business... you can get retirement... you EARN it... you gain the skills in demand, or you come up with your own business or ideas or invention.... you accomplish things.... and you save, invest, take advantage of benefits businesses DO offer...

You don't just sit and think everyone else OWES you..

I believe fully that the only person that owes you anything is you... the very same person that is the only person responsible for your well being

Freedom is not freedom to screw up the world because you want to. Our founders had no concept of the power of modern corporations nor of the ability of modern society to ruin the earth. The pollution of the 50's and 60's proved that. No one owes you but no one has the right to ruin what is everyone's.


"It is not enough to ask, ‘Will my act harm other people?’ Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, ‘Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people?’ The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit

 

[DiamondDave]

Freedom is not freedom to screw up the world because you want to. Our founders had no concept of the power of modern corporations nor of the ability of modern society to ruin the earth. The pollution of the 50's and 60's proved that. No one owes you but no one has the right to ruin what is everyone's.


"It is not enough to ask, ‘Will my act harm other people?’ Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, ‘Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people?’ The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit

What is EVERYONE's?? more socialist hogwash.... this is not a hive.... not a collective... not the freaking Borg... and not a freaking hippie commune

We have laws... laws to prevent discrimination based on race or creed or sex.... we have laws about just dumping a pile of shit on the road

but freedom is freedom... the good and the bad.... you socialists want the bad for the achievers at a no-effort benefit/handout to the lazy... I have the freedom to ride in a car that gets 8MPG, just as you have the freedom to walk in stinky sandals to work... I have the freedom to live with the consequences of my choice to take the job I have, or study on my own time at night, or screw the woman I met last weekend, or whatever... just as you have the freedom to live with the consequences of the choices you make... it is mot my responsibility, or the responsibility of Alfred in Idaho, or anyone else to make you have more in spite of your life choices

 

[editec]

Governmental systems and activities are not all socialist because they are government run and because a government is funded, in part, on taxation of the populous...

try actually understanding the concept of socialism

I'm more than willing to use the word socialism in the way the word is meant to be used.

I'm just using it the way most people use it today...to describe anything the goverment does EVER.

But as long as we tolerate calling welfare socialism, or social security socialism, then calling everything that the government does socialism is perfectly accurate.

 

[DiamondDave]

You ever see me calling Social Security socialism?

No

You will see me call people promoting socialist stances and wealth-redistribution concepts as socialists... and you will always see me shouting from the hilltops that socialism is a system that cannot work, for it's control based system is against freedom. Freedom which the human species strives for and yearns for. It is a system that cannot work as long as we have human nature. It can only work in a society of totalitarian elites taking power over slaves, robots, and prisoners and FORCING their control in the system

 

[Anguille]

Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
"Suvs, suburban sprawl, lack of public transportation, lack of trains, lack of bike paths, etc. Irresponsible behavior is irresponsible behavior."

I agree that there is a problem with all of this and things need to change. It didn't happen by accident though; deliberate government policy created it.

As well as private enterprise. For example, the buying out of street railway companies by bus companies who then tore up the tracks.

 

[Anguille]

While I don't disagree, I think, wouldn't it be nice if business operated in a similar fashion? Instead we have dog eat dog capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich in a matter of speaking. By the way business used to be that way, what changed? Republican voodoo economics maybe? Greed?

 

[Anguille]

..

You don't just sit and think everyone else OWES you..

I believe fully that the only person that owes you anything is you... the very same person that is the only person responsible for your well being

You owe me for that beer!!!!

 

[DiamondDave]

You owe me for that beer!!!!

Check's in the mail

 

[Anguille]

...

I have the freedom to ride in a car that gets 8MPG, just as you have the freedom to walk in stinky sandals to work... I have the freedom to live with the consequences of my choice to take the job I have, or study on my own time at night, or screw the woman I met last weekend, or whatever... just as you have the freedom to live with the consequences of the choices you make... it is mot my responsibility, or the responsibility of Alfred in Idaho, or anyone else to make you have more in spite of your life choices

Nor is it the responsibility of the poor to work as wage slaves and rely on welfare so that you can have more "freedom" to drive fast cars.

 

[DiamondDave]

Nor is it the responsibility of the poor to work as wage slaves and rely on welfare so that you can have more "freedom" to drive fast cars.

But it IS their responsibility that they earn their way into the money they receive... not have it given to them at the expense of the efforts of others...


and funny... I thought slavery is illegal... if they wish to quit and take another job, they have that freedom.... but in a free society, they better make the personal choice and personal commitment to actually have a commodity/skill that they can sell themselves on...

 

[Anguille]

But it IS their responsibility that they earn their way into the money they receive... not have it given to them at the expense of the efforts of others...

they or you? lol!

 

[busara]

But it IS their responsibility that they earn their way into the money they receive... not have it given to them at the expense of the efforts of others...


and funny... I thought slavery is illegal... if they wish to quit and take another job, they have that freedom.... but in a free society, they better make the personal choice and personal commitment to actually have a commodity/skill that they can sell themselves on...

i managed a Goodwill for a year. the starting wage for my workers was $6.75 an hour and would increase over time depending on a variety of things, up to $7.50 an hour. when i left the company, i asked many of the workers why they didnt go find a higher paying job. their answers? they didnt have cars and had no way of getting to other locations. physical limitations such as arthritis or bad backs limited the work they could do. not being able to afford going 3 or 4 weeks without a paycheck. not being able to afford going without health insurance for any amount of time.

i had 2 people (out of 19) move on for better jobs. one went to ITT Tech and became a customer support technician (he was able to afford it because his mother, his girlfriends mother, his brother, and his girlfriend all chipped in). the other had a friend who worked at a phone help desk company, and he was able to get her a job there.

so some people were able to move up. many others were stuck. it shouldnt be so difficult to better oneself.

 

[DiamondDave]

i managed a Goodwill for a year. the starting wage for my workers was $6.75 an hour and would increase over time depending on a variety of things, up to $7.50 an hour. when i left the company, i asked many of the workers why they didnt go find a higher paying job. their answers? they didnt have cars and had no way of getting to other locations. physical limitations such as arthritis or bad backs limited the work they could do. not being able to afford going 3 or 4 weeks without a paycheck. not being able to afford going without health insurance for any amount of time.

i had 2 people (out of 19) move on for better jobs. one went to ITT Tech and became a customer support technician (he was able to afford it because his mother, his girlfriends mother, his brother, and his girlfriend all chipped in). the other had a friend who worked at a phone help desk company, and he was able to get her a job there.

so some people were able to move up. many others were stuck. it shouldnt be so difficult to better oneself.

No... they were not forced or "stuck"... they CHOSE not to do the extra it takes to move ahead...

Life is not easy.... but that still does not make it yours or my responsibility, or the government's responsibility, to take over your personal responsibility for your own well being or your advancement or your success

 

[DiamondDave]

they or you? lol!

I do earn mine.. and worked hard to get where I am