Is Atheism a Religion or a severe mental disorder?

[rightwinger]

As an atheist, if you want to handle snakes while you talk in tongues, it is your business

But if you want to force it on me or my children, I have a problem

 

[sealybobo]

Part of me says it is a religion, but part of me says it is a severe mental disorder along the lines of liberalism and the AGW cult.

How could any sane person go on and on talking and preaching about something that they consider don't exists?

I don't post constantly post about invisible flying pink elephants, why?

Because it rarely crosses my mind....

What sane person would constantly think about something that they think don't exsist?

I don't constantly think about people's belief in goblins, ghost, big foot, UFOs or all the rest, frankly I don't give a crap about them nor do I try to say they don't exsist because myself a truth seeker, a man of science I can not prove they don't exsist with out a doubt.

An interesting piece on Atheism is a religion...


"Religion certainly includes an idea of a God under whom man is inherently subservient, but religion also governs the belief system undergirding the way people think about, and live, their lives.

It tells them who their authority is and it informs their values and behavior. It gives them their sense of morality and goodwill, and it guides them in the way they treat themselves and others. Religion does nothing less than construct one’s view of the world.

Atheists are, in fact, some of the most religious people.

First, they have a functioning God under whom they are subservient (normally it’s science or rationality, but mainly themselves), and that idea of God informs the way they live and interpret their lives. It informs their biases and determines their values, and governs any sense of morality or ethics they adhere too, or ignore.

Once that’s all settled all that’s left is the preaching.

And they preach all the time.

This new breed of atheists is obsessed with the idea of God. They write books, deliver speeches, comment-bomb the evangelical blogosphere and generally rant on ad nauseam about the ills of believing in God.

Honestly – comically – some atheists must type the word “God” on the Internet five times more often than most Christians I know and they do it with the fury of a fire-and-brimstone zealot!

Maybe no one invokes the name of “God” more than they, and they are doing so in more and more virulent ways such as the shocking moment when Dr. Dawkins recently told Al-Jazeera television that he believed being raised Catholic was in itself even more psychologically damaging than being abused by a priest!

Instead of just ignoring God, or the idea of God, atheist preachers feel somehow compelled to rid the Earth of him; so they argue endlessly that theists can’t prove God exists without confessing that they can’t prove he doesn’t either."



.

Why do anti war protesters or anti abortion protesters care so much? How about anti slavery people? They protest against things they disagree with. They are passionate that these things are bad.

I don't really care if religious people want to believe in silly superstitions. As long as they don't try to force their ridiculous views upon me!

Religious freedom and separation of church and state have always been hated concepts to the religious right. Indeed, it’s fair to say that the religious right exists to fight any legal or cultural support for people who don’t want their narrow definition of Christianity foisted on them. From objecting to gay marriage to trying to wedge creationism in schools, the religious right exists as a political movement for the purpose of stripping away religious freedom and establishing their religious beliefs as the dominant organizing force in law, politics and culture.

So why then are we hearing all these people who live their lives attacking religious freedom complaining all the time that “religious freedom” is under attack from liberals? Why does every religious-right publication and event echo the claim that right-wing Christians are somehow being stripped of the very right to religious freedom the right has worked tirelessly to take from everyone else for decades?

The simple answer is they’re lying. Claiming the mantle of victimhood is so politically potent that religious-right leaders are going to do it, no matter how untrue it is, because, to be blunt, they’re not held back by any moral interest in honesty.

The longer answer is that the religious right has concocted a new strategy to squelch religious freedom: By redefining “religious freedom” to mean its opposite. The hope is that by repeatedly using the term “religious freedom” when they mean “giving the Christian right power to impose their faith on others,” they can eventually drain the phrase of all its meaning and finally, after decades of fighting secularism, make it easier for the religious right to strip away individual protections for religion. In other words, they hope by saying that up is down long enough, the public and the courts will finally believe it.

While many think the case of Hobby Lobby suing to avoid having to offer birth control is about freedom of religion, the real question at the center of the case is how much is your boss allowed to impose his religion on you, just because you work for him?

They want to claim that your compensation package still belongs to them after you’ve earned it and should be tailored to fit their religious beliefs, even if you, the rightful owner of the compensation package, do not share their beliefs.

In their lawsuit, they claim that they should be able to determine how you use your insurance plan, and that they should be exempt from the federal government’s mandatory minimums in how they compensate you because they claim to have religious objections.

If Hobby Lobby wins its case, the precedent will create a massive incentive for corporations to sue to have all sorts of rights to use the fact that you work there as an excuse to force their religious beliefs on you. If your boss can force you to use your earned benefits according to his religious dictates, why not the rest of your compensation? Since he signs your paycheck, will he be able to sue and say that you shouldn’t be able to spend it in ways he believes violate his religion? Being able to claim that their “religious freedom” exempts them from all sorts of labor laws will be a massive boon to the religious right, and they will certainly start looking for ways to expand the ways they can force you to live by their religious rules, beyond how you use your insurance.

Unsurprisingly, Hobby Lobby’s owner is a big fan of ignoring the First Amendment and demanding that the government endorse religion, as well. Not just any religion, but specifically the conservative interpretation of Christianity. The owner of Hobby Lobby has spent a fortune trying to get Bible study into public classrooms. He thinks by making it an “elective” course, that creates enough cover, but the Constitution is clear that the government cannot endorse any religion. Having a Bible study course is a clear endorsement of religion, something conservatives would immediately grasp if a school tried to start a Koran study course. But part of the religious right’s new definition of “religious freedom” is the belief that conservative Christianity is special and that its followers are entitled to foist their religion on people in ways no other religious believers get to do.

That’s what the religious right means by religious freedom: The removal of your right to have your own beliefs, free from interference by people who have power over you. The right dearly wants religious freedom to mean the right of conservative Christians and only conservative Christians to foist their beliefs on you through your job and through the government and squelch any cultural attempts to be inclusive of all the diverse belief systems in America. The only way to fight back is for liberals to reclaim the term “religious freedom” for what it really means: The right to choose for yourself what you believe without having the law or your boss trying to tip the scales.

 

[sealybobo]

What is the difference between a religion and a severe mental disorder?

A result of our naturally evolved neurology, made hypersensitive to purpose (an ‘unseen actor’) because of the large social groups humans have and the way the brain associates pattern with intent.

Humans have evolved a variety of cognitive shortcuts to deal with the mass of information provided by our senses. In particular, we tend to filter sensory input according to a set of expectations built on prior beliefs and past experiences, impart meaning to ambiguous input even when there is no real meaning behind it and infer causal relationships where none exist.

Personal revelation cannot be independently verified. So-called ‘revelations’ never include information a recipient could not have known beforehand, such as the time and location of a rare event or answers to any number of unsolved problems in science. They are usually emotional or perceptual in content and therefore unremarkable among the many cognitive processes brains exhibit, including dreams and hallucinations. These experiences may even be artificially induced by narcotics or magnetic fields. Extreme cases may be diagnosed as a form of schizophrenia or psychosis.

Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc. The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

Well, I was just ribbing a bit.

Your comments make a lot of sense, though I suspect something more is going on. I think it's reasonable to view gods as distributed entities. To the extent that a group of people share a common conception of a god, it can be said that the god exists via the network of believers.

Things can exist in different contexts: God exists, in the sense that God is an idea that people have. Atheists can comment perfectly fine on the implications of belief and on god as a character without being required to believe in god.

When atheists agree with the premise of a god’s existence for the purpose of showing the absurdity of a theistic argument, they may still question conclusions about god’s nature by debating the correctness of the inference.

“There is nothing more telling of a person’s fundamental lack of perspective and humility than an insistence that if they cannot reconcile their beliefs with reality, then reality itself must be wrong.”

 

[Vandalshandle]

Part of me believes that the OP was written by a brainwashed sheep, and part of me believes it was written by a attention whore troll.....

 

[sealybobo]

Part of me believes that the OP was written by a brainwashed sheep, and part of me believes it was written by a attention whore troll.....

It's OK to be those things as long as it's for the cause

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, Atheism is a severe mental disorder

 

[Wyatt earp]

Part of me says it is a religion, but part of me says it is a severe mental disorder along the lines of liberalism and the AGW cult.

How could any sane person go on and on talking and preaching about something that they consider don't exists?

I don't post constantly post about invisible flying pink elephants, why?

Because it rarely crosses my mind....

What sane person would constantly think about something that they think don't exsist?

I don't constantly think about people's belief in goblins, ghost, big foot, UFOs or all the rest, frankly I don't give a crap about them nor do I try to say they don't exsist because myself a truth seeker, a man of science I can not prove they don't exsist with out a doubt.

An interesting piece on Atheism is a religion...


"Religion certainly includes an idea of a God under whom man is inherently subservient, but religion also governs the belief system undergirding the way people think about, and live, their lives.

It tells them who their authority is and it informs their values and behavior. It gives them their sense of morality and goodwill, and it guides them in the way they treat themselves and others. Religion does nothing less than construct one’s view of the world.

Atheists are, in fact, some of the most religious people.

First, they have a functioning God under whom they are subservient (normally it’s science or rationality, but mainly themselves), and that idea of God informs the way they live and interpret their lives. It informs their biases and determines their values, and governs any sense of morality or ethics they adhere too, or ignore.

Once that’s all settled all that’s left is the preaching.

And they preach all the time.

This new breed of atheists is obsessed with the idea of God. They write books, deliver speeches, comment-bomb the evangelical blogosphere and generally rant on ad nauseam about the ills of believing in God.

Honestly – comically – some atheists must type the word “God” on the Internet five times more often than most Christians I know and they do it with the fury of a fire-and-brimstone zealot!

Maybe no one invokes the name of “God” more than they, and they are doing so in more and more virulent ways such as the shocking moment when Dr. Dawkins recently told Al-Jazeera television that he believed being raised Catholic was in itself even more psychologically damaging than being abused by a priest!

Instead of just ignoring God, or the idea of God, atheist preachers feel somehow compelled to rid the Earth of him; so they argue endlessly that theists can’t prove God exists without confessing that they can’t prove he doesn’t either."
.

the arrogance and self-righteousness of theocrats is amusing.

atheism is not a religion.

and although i am a believer (although not of your particular brand of religion) i would say one could more likely say it could be mental illness to believe there is someone in the air who gives a rat's putout about what you do

Scientism is the religion of most secular humanist atheists. God just gets replaced with "evolution" and the clergy gets replaced with "scientists". It's essentially therefore a progressive religion which can change to mean whatever those in charge (e.x. state-funded scientists) want (just as "science" was once used to say that black people weren't intelligent enough to pursue education) - this is the entire agenda of progressive "evangelical" atheism just as it was with Marxism, it's just being used as an avenue to push their progressive Utilitarian philosophy on the unsuspecting and replace traditional religion with the state.

that is absurd. your fantasies do not constitute reality.

again, secularism, as you call it, is not a religion. it is lack of religion.

language skills are important.

Again what sane person would go on and on about something they don't believe in?

Of course it is a religion to most atheist...with silly boo boo it is an obsession ...


.

 

[ChrisL]

Part of me says it is a religion, but part of me says it is a severe mental disorder along the lines of liberalism and the AGW cult.

How could any sane person go on and on talking and preaching about something that they consider don't exists?

I don't post constantly post about invisible flying pink elephants, why?

Because it rarely crosses my mind....

What sane person would constantly think about something that they think don't exsist?

I don't constantly think about people's belief in goblins, ghost, big foot, UFOs or all the rest, frankly I don't give a crap about them nor do I try to say they don't exsist because myself a truth seeker, a man of science I can not prove they don't exsist with out a doubt.

An interesting piece on Atheism is a religion...


"Religion certainly includes an idea of a God under whom man is inherently subservient, but religion also governs the belief system undergirding the way people think about, and live, their lives.

It tells them who their authority is and it informs their values and behavior. It gives them their sense of morality and goodwill, and it guides them in the way they treat themselves and others. Religion does nothing less than construct one’s view of the world.

Atheists are, in fact, some of the most religious people.

First, they have a functioning God under whom they are subservient (normally it’s science or rationality, but mainly themselves), and that idea of God informs the way they live and interpret their lives. It informs their biases and determines their values, and governs any sense of morality or ethics they adhere too, or ignore.

Once that’s all settled all that’s left is the preaching.

And they preach all the time.

This new breed of atheists is obsessed with the idea of God. They write books, deliver speeches, comment-bomb the evangelical blogosphere and generally rant on ad nauseam about the ills of believing in God.

Honestly – comically – some atheists must type the word “God” on the Internet five times more often than most Christians I know and they do it with the fury of a fire-and-brimstone zealot!

Maybe no one invokes the name of “God” more than they, and they are doing so in more and more virulent ways such as the shocking moment when Dr. Dawkins recently told Al-Jazeera television that he believed being raised Catholic was in itself even more psychologically damaging than being abused by a priest!

Instead of just ignoring God, or the idea of God, atheist preachers feel somehow compelled to rid the Earth of him; so they argue endlessly that theists can’t prove God exists without confessing that they can’t prove he doesn’t either."
.

the arrogance and self-righteousness of theocrats is amusing.

atheism is not a religion.

and although i am a believer (although not of your particular brand of religion) i would say one could more likely say it could be mental illness to believe there is someone in the air who gives a rat's putout about what you do

Scientism is the religion of most secular humanist atheists. God just gets replaced with "evolution" and the clergy gets replaced with "scientists". It's essentially therefore a progressive religion which can change to mean whatever those in charge (e.x. state-funded scientists) want (just as "science" was once used to say that black people weren't intelligent enough to pursue education) - this is the entire agenda of progressive "evangelical" atheism just as it was with Marxism, it's just being used as an avenue to push their progressive Utilitarian philosophy on the unsuspecting and replace traditional religion with the state.

that is absurd. your fantasies do not constitute reality.

again, secularism, as you call it, is not a religion. it is lack of religion.

language skills are important.

Again what sane person would go on and on about something they don't believe in?

Of course it is a religion to most atheist...with silly boo boo it is an obsession ...


.

Because this is a message board, Einstein. This is where we participate in threads and give our opinions on subjects.

 

[ChrisL]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

 

[koshergrl]

Part of me says it is a religion, but part of me says it is a severe mental disorder along the lines of liberalism and the AGW cult.

How could any sane person go on and on talking and preaching about something that they consider don't exists?

I don't post constantly post about invisible flying pink elephants, why?

Because it rarely crosses my mind....

What sane person would constantly think about something that they think don't exsist?

I don't constantly think about people's belief in goblins, ghost, big foot, UFOs or all the rest, frankly I don't give a crap about them nor do I try to say they don't exsist because myself a truth seeker, a man of science I can not prove they don't exsist with out a doubt.

An interesting piece on Atheism is a religion...


"Religion certainly includes an idea of a God under whom man is inherently subservient, but religion also governs the belief system undergirding the way people think about, and live, their lives.

It tells them who their authority is and it informs their values and behavior. It gives them their sense of morality and goodwill, and it guides them in the way they treat themselves and others. Religion does nothing less than construct one’s view of the world.

Atheists are, in fact, some of the most religious people.

First, they have a functioning God under whom they are subservient (normally it’s science or rationality, but mainly themselves), and that idea of God informs the way they live and interpret their lives. It informs their biases and determines their values, and governs any sense of morality or ethics they adhere too, or ignore.

Once that’s all settled all that’s left is the preaching.

And they preach all the time.

This new breed of atheists is obsessed with the idea of God. They write books, deliver speeches, comment-bomb the evangelical blogosphere and generally rant on ad nauseam about the ills of believing in God.

Honestly – comically – some atheists must type the word “God” on the Internet five times more often than most Christians I know and they do it with the fury of a fire-and-brimstone zealot!

Maybe no one invokes the name of “God” more than they, and they are doing so in more and more virulent ways such as the shocking moment when Dr. Dawkins recently told Al-Jazeera television that he believed being raised Catholic was in itself even more psychologically damaging than being abused by a priest!

Instead of just ignoring God, or the idea of God, atheist preachers feel somehow compelled to rid the Earth of him; so they argue endlessly that theists can’t prove God exists without confessing that they can’t prove he doesn’t either."



.

There have been many gods all throughout history, and certainty they do exist as people did and do still worship them.

So I can create things by just believing in it?

Nope, that's not the way it works. There is a God. He is one God, has always been the same God, and he created us. Not the other way around. And ultimately, there will be people who are right, and who are wrong, about God.

The people who are wrong..and the people who believe but reject Him anyway...will go to Hell.

The rest of us will enjoy eternal life with Him.

That's the reality. And no matter how much you wish it differently, your wishes won't change the reality.

 

[sealybobo]

Part of me says it is a religion, but part of me says it is a severe mental disorder along the lines of liberalism and the AGW cult.

How could any sane person go on and on talking and preaching about something that they consider don't exists?

I don't post constantly post about invisible flying pink elephants, why?

Because it rarely crosses my mind....

What sane person would constantly think about something that they think don't exsist?

I don't constantly think about people's belief in goblins, ghost, big foot, UFOs or all the rest, frankly I don't give a crap about them nor do I try to say they don't exsist because myself a truth seeker, a man of science I can not prove they don't exsist with out a doubt.

An interesting piece on Atheism is a religion...


"Religion certainly includes an idea of a God under whom man is inherently subservient, but religion also governs the belief system undergirding the way people think about, and live, their lives.

It tells them who their authority is and it informs their values and behavior. It gives them their sense of morality and goodwill, and it guides them in the way they treat themselves and others. Religion does nothing less than construct one’s view of the world.

Atheists are, in fact, some of the most religious people.

First, they have a functioning God under whom they are subservient (normally it’s science or rationality, but mainly themselves), and that idea of God informs the way they live and interpret their lives. It informs their biases and determines their values, and governs any sense of morality or ethics they adhere too, or ignore.

Once that’s all settled all that’s left is the preaching.

And they preach all the time.

This new breed of atheists is obsessed with the idea of God. They write books, deliver speeches, comment-bomb the evangelical blogosphere and generally rant on ad nauseam about the ills of believing in God.

Honestly – comically – some atheists must type the word “God” on the Internet five times more often than most Christians I know and they do it with the fury of a fire-and-brimstone zealot!

Maybe no one invokes the name of “God” more than they, and they are doing so in more and more virulent ways such as the shocking moment when Dr. Dawkins recently told Al-Jazeera television that he believed being raised Catholic was in itself even more psychologically damaging than being abused by a priest!

Instead of just ignoring God, or the idea of God, atheist preachers feel somehow compelled to rid the Earth of him; so they argue endlessly that theists can’t prove God exists without confessing that they can’t prove he doesn’t either."
.

the arrogance and self-righteousness of theocrats is amusing.

atheism is not a religion.

and although i am a believer (although not of your particular brand of religion) i would say one could more likely say it could be mental illness to believe there is someone in the air who gives a rat's putout about what you do

Scientism is the religion of most secular humanist atheists. God just gets replaced with "evolution" and the clergy gets replaced with "scientists". It's essentially therefore a progressive religion which can change to mean whatever those in charge (e.x. state-funded scientists) want (just as "science" was once used to say that black people weren't intelligent enough to pursue education) - this is the entire agenda of progressive "evangelical" atheism just as it was with Marxism, it's just being used as an avenue to push their progressive Utilitarian philosophy on the unsuspecting and replace traditional religion with the state.

that is absurd. your fantasies do not constitute reality.

again, secularism, as you call it, is not a religion. it is lack of religion.

language skills are important.

Again what sane person would go on and on about something they don't believe in?

Of course it is a religion to most atheist...with silly boo boo it is an obsession ...


.

They said same thing to round earthers

 

[koshergrl]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

It's mankind's theme.

Anti-Christians always are confused by the concept that in order for God to be righteous, he has to wipe out evil and corruption.

You can't be righteous, and put up with evil. Sorry.

 

[rightwinger]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

It's mankind's theme.

Anti-Christians always are confused by the concept that in order for God to be righteous, he has to wipe out evil and corruption.

You can't be righteous, and put up with evil. Sorry.

Kill those puppies and kittens

They are EVIL

 

[ChrisL]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

It's mankind's theme.

Anti-Christians always are confused by the concept that in order for God to be righteous, he has to wipe out evil and corruption.

You can't be righteous, and put up with evil. Sorry.

There are no gods. You are on your own.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Part of me says it is a religion, but part of me says it is a severe mental disorder along the lines of liberalism and the AGW cult.

How could any sane person go on and on talking and preaching about something that they consider don't exists?

I don't post constantly post about invisible flying pink elephants, why?

Because it rarely crosses my mind....

What sane person would constantly think about something that they think don't exsist?

I don't constantly think about people's belief in goblins, ghost, big foot, UFOs or all the rest, frankly I don't give a crap about them nor do I try to say they don't exsist because myself a truth seeker, a man of science I can not prove they don't exsist with out a doubt.

An interesting piece on Atheism is a religion...


"Religion certainly includes an idea of a God under whom man is inherently subservient, but religion also governs the belief system undergirding the way people think about, and live, their lives.

It tells them who their authority is and it informs their values and behavior. It gives them their sense of morality and goodwill, and it guides them in the way they treat themselves and others. Religion does nothing less than construct one’s view of the world.

Atheists are, in fact, some of the most religious people.

First, they have a functioning God under whom they are subservient (normally it’s science or rationality, but mainly themselves), and that idea of God informs the way they live and interpret their lives. It informs their biases and determines their values, and governs any sense of morality or ethics they adhere too, or ignore.

Once that’s all settled all that’s left is the preaching.

And they preach all the time.

This new breed of atheists is obsessed with the idea of God. They write books, deliver speeches, comment-bomb the evangelical blogosphere and generally rant on ad nauseam about the ills of believing in God.

Honestly – comically – some atheists must type the word “God” on the Internet five times more often than most Christians I know and they do it with the fury of a fire-and-brimstone zealot!

Maybe no one invokes the name of “God” more than they, and they are doing so in more and more virulent ways such as the shocking moment when Dr. Dawkins recently told Al-Jazeera television that he believed being raised Catholic was in itself even more psychologically damaging than being abused by a priest!

Instead of just ignoring God, or the idea of God, atheist preachers feel somehow compelled to rid the Earth of him; so they argue endlessly that theists can’t prove God exists without confessing that they can’t prove he doesn’t either."
.

the arrogance and self-righteousness of theocrats is amusing.

atheism is not a religion.

and although i am a believer (although not of your particular brand of religion) i would say one could more likely say it could be mental illness to believe there is someone in the air who gives a rat's putout about what you do

Scientism is the religion of most secular humanist atheists. God just gets replaced with "evolution" and the clergy gets replaced with "scientists". It's essentially therefore a progressive religion which can change to mean whatever those in charge (e.x. state-funded scientists) want (just as "science" was once used to say that black people weren't intelligent enough to pursue education) - this is the entire agenda of progressive "evangelical" atheism just as it was with Marxism, it's just being used as an avenue to push their progressive Utilitarian philosophy on the unsuspecting and replace traditional religion with the state.

that is absurd. your fantasies do not constitute reality.

again, secularism, as you call it, is not a religion. it is lack of religion.

language skills are important.

Again what sane person would go on and on about something they don't believe in?

Of course it is a religion to most atheist...with silly boo boo it is an obsession ...


.

They said same thing to round earthers

No matter how much you stomp around in your bunny rabbit slippers and pout, you have no proof God don't exsist.


So why are you obsessed to try to convert the believers to your religion?


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

Yes, we already know cupcake you failed history.

 

[ChrisL]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

Yes, we already know cupcake you failed history.

View attachment 76041

I did great in science and history! I was always a good student.

 

[ChrisL]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

Yes, we already know cupcake you failed history.

View attachment 76041

If you need religion and threats of eternal damnation to have morals, you aren't a good person to begin with. I totally believe that.

 

[hunarcy]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

Yes, we already know cupcake you failed history.

View attachment 76041

If you need religion and threats of eternal damnation to have morals, you aren't a good person to begin with. I totally believe that.

Your lack of faith doesn't harm me, just as my faith doesn't harm you. Once we establish that we do have our personal beliefs, why can't we all be satisfied with that?

 

[ChrisL]

Violence and killing is a main theme in your God book.

Yes, we already know cupcake you failed history.

View attachment 76041

If you need religion and threats of eternal damnation to have morals, you aren't a good person to begin with. I totally believe that.

Your lack of faith doesn't harm me, just as my faith doesn't harm you. Once we establish that we do have our personal beliefs, why can't we all be satisfied with that?

I believe that has already been covered in this thread.