If you support abortion bans...

[FA_Q2]

I had a friend one time. She was a happy girl but not too bright. She had an abortion. Subsequently she went into a spiraling depression. She didn’t understand why, but I knew it had to do with the abortion. I’ve also known women who have had abortions, also felt depressed afterwards, and have later on lived to regret their decision.

I worked with a female Marine that had had two abortions by the time she was 23. She had no issues with it at all, talked about them openly.


Thus is the problem with anecdotes...everyone has one and they add nothing to the discussion.


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Well, your's really boosts the same message though. It takes a special moral depravity to have no problem killing an unborn child not once but twice.

It takes a special moral depravity to insist that a fetus be brought to term regardless of the circumstances , then turn your back on the family after the child is born in terms of health care, nutrition, housing, a living wage for the parent, day care and pre school and so much more.

I know, killing them is MUCH better.

Your first half is a misrepresentation and your second an outright lie. I don't expect much beyond partisan hackery on this subject though so congrats on filling that role.

 

[FA_Q2]

And there is the problem it seems no one can agree on even a legal definition of where the crossover is.

That is the case with many legal issues. There is a lot of debate on where self defense ends and murder begins.


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And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


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There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

trump wanted it & said so....before the backlash he got; then he suddenly changed his mind.

Trump wanted no such thing. Trump does not really want anything at all. He has no core values to speak of. What he did was repeat what he thought people wanted and then backtracked when he realized the talking points were terribly wrong.

 

[dblack]

Ahh, another abortion thread. That makes about 8,542 this month right?

So, I will go back to my double homicide question, which still remains unanswered. Does anyone want to answer it here?

I assume your question has to do with states that have passed laws to charge someone with two murder charges if they kill a pregnant woman. So what? Are you going to pretend that these laws establish the legal personhood of fetuses? Or that they represent a consensus on the matter.

Obviously, these laws are wedge efforts to slide in your views on fetuses without scrutiny. You ask the voters of a state "should assholes who kill pregnant women get charged twice?" - most everyone will say yes, of course. Ask them if fetuses are people and if abortion should be considered murder and you'll get no such consensus.

 

[FA_Q2]

Ahh, another abortion thread. That makes about 8,542 this month right?

So, I will go back to my double homicide question, which still remains unanswered. Does anyone want to answer it here?

I assume your question has to do with states that have passed laws to charge someone with two murder charges if they kill a pregnant woman. So what? Are you going to pretend that these laws establish the legal personhood of fetuses? Or that they represent a consensus on the matter.

Obviously, these laws are wedge efforts to slide in your views on fetuses without scrutiny. You ask the voters of a state "should assholes who kill pregnant women get charged twice?" - most everyone will say yes, of course. Ask them if fetuses are people and if abortion should be considered murder and you'll get no such consensus.

The inconsistency is a problem though - would you not agree?

I think that the law NEEDS to be consistent in order for it to be justified. There is a problem when people confuse justice and power with revenge.

 

[dblack]

Ahh, another abortion thread. That makes about 8,542 this month right?

So, I will go back to my double homicide question, which still remains unanswered. Does anyone want to answer it here?

I assume your question has to do with states that have passed laws to charge someone with two murder charges if they kill a pregnant woman. So what? Are you going to pretend that these laws establish the legal personhood of fetuses? Or that they represent a consensus on the matter.

Obviously, these laws are wedge efforts to slide in your views on fetuses without scrutiny. You ask the voters of a state "should assholes who kill pregnant women get charged twice?" - most everyone will say yes, of course. Ask them if fetuses are people and if abortion should be considered murder and you'll get no such consensus.

The inconsistency is a problem though - would you not agree?

I think that the law NEEDS to be consistent in order for it to be justified. There is a problem when people confuse justice and power with revenge.

It is a problem, and for this reason the double murder crap should be repealed. But the existence of these laws doesn't prove anything of importance, other than the fact that most of us hate seeing pregnant women murdered.

 

[FA_Q2]

Ahh, another abortion thread. That makes about 8,542 this month right?

So, I will go back to my double homicide question, which still remains unanswered. Does anyone want to answer it here?

I assume your question has to do with states that have passed laws to charge someone with two murder charges if they kill a pregnant woman. So what? Are you going to pretend that these laws establish the legal personhood of fetuses? Or that they represent a consensus on the matter.

Obviously, these laws are wedge efforts to slide in your views on fetuses without scrutiny. You ask the voters of a state "should assholes who kill pregnant women get charged twice?" - most everyone will say yes, of course. Ask them if fetuses are people and if abortion should be considered murder and you'll get no such consensus.

The inconsistency is a problem though - would you not agree?

I think that the law NEEDS to be consistent in order for it to be justified. There is a problem when people confuse justice and power with revenge.

It is a problem, and for this reason the double murder crap should be repealed. But the existence of these laws doesn't prove anything of importance, most of us hate seeing pregnant women murdered.

Fair enough - I understand the point you were getting at then and really cant argue with that. You are right.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Ahh, another abortion thread. That makes about 8,542 this month right?

So, I will go back to my double homicide question, which still remains unanswered. Does anyone want to answer it here?

I assume your question has to do with states that have passed laws to charge someone with two murder charges if they kill a pregnant woman. So what? Are you going to pretend that these laws establish the legal personhood of fetuses? Or that they represent a consensus on the matter.

Obviously, these laws are wedge efforts to slide in your views on fetuses without scrutiny. You ask the voters of a state "should assholes who kill pregnant women get charged twice?" - most everyone will say yes, of course. Ask them if fetuses are people and if abortion should be considered murder and you'll get no such consensus.

Yes, I'm trying to show the personhood of the fetus. The left will swap their argument from a legal viewpoint to a moral viewpoint in this case, but in the matter of abortion itself, they argue the legal viewpoint rather than the moral.

Yes, by answering that question, you determine the personhood of the fetus, from a legal standpoint.

The left says that it's just a clump of cells and is not a person, so by that rationality, someone who kills a pregnant woman cannot be charged with double homicide, however, if he is rightly charged with double homicide, then the personhood of the fetus is established.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Ahh, another abortion thread. That makes about 8,542 this month right?

So, I will go back to my double homicide question, which still remains unanswered. Does anyone want to answer it here?

. You ask the voters of a state "should assholes who kill pregnant women get charged twice?" - most everyone will say yes, of course. Ask them if fetuses are people and if abortion should be considered murder and you'll get no such consensus.

That right there proves that the left will change their argument based on what they want. In the case of the double homicide, the fetus is a person, into case of abortion, they will say its not.

 

[whitehall]

Would you lefties be willing to support the killing of new born infants if you can.t get insurance for birth control?

 

[Nosmo King]

Would you then support mandatory coverage for birth control in health care insurance plans? Would you support condom distribution in schools? Would you support a national sex Ed program?

Wow - then we can have government solidly in control of reproduction. Should they also choose mates for us?

And yet you think banning abortions will stop abortions. Think of abortion as if it was fins. After banning it, only criminals will perform abortions. And how does that help women's health?

I'm not in favor of government banning abortions. Government should stay out of it altogether. I just think your calls for mandatory this and that come from the same place: a vision of government as the 'decider' for all of society's values.

I suggested mandatory insurance coverage and birth control access in lieu of an abortion ban

 

[Nosmo King]

Would you lefties be willing to support the killing of new born infants if you can.t get insurance for birth control?

Killing new born infants is not now, nor ever shall be on the table.

False equivalence

 

[Rocko]

A lot of the people on the left don’t even know why they support the stuff they do. Abortion is the clearest case of that. They just parrot a women’s right to chose, which is a simplified approach to the debate.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And there is the problem it seems no one can agree on even a legal definition of where the crossover is.

That is the case with many legal issues. There is a lot of debate on where self defense ends and murder begins.


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And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


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There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

Multiple people on this thread have said abortion is murder. If they truly feel that way then they have to support murder charges for the mother and the doctor.


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[FA_Q2]

And there is the problem it seems no one can agree on even a legal definition of where the crossover is.

That is the case with many legal issues. There is a lot of debate on where self defense ends and murder begins.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

Multiple people on this thread have said abortion is murder. If they truly feel that way then they have to support murder charges for the mother and the doctor.


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No, they don't. I won't speak for them but the general consensus between pro life people is that they support such charges for the doctor but recognize the impossibility of applying that to the mother. Virtually no one supports punishing the mother for a failed pregnancy but they support charging the doctor for performing an elective abortive procedure.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

oh please... you & your ilk call yerselves pro life.... but y'all are just pro birth... after that cord is cut, then the brat & his whore/welfare queen mama are on their own. no WIC, no SNAP, no section 8, no medicaid..... cause that cost money & you don't want to share & do what it takes to actually care for them thar brats.


right?


right.

Wrong

you are the exception & not the rule.... but it's hard to believe it.

I’m not pro life btw. It’s not practical, because there will still be abortions if it’s illegal, and the abortions would be less safe. So from a practical standpoint, I’m pro choice. I still recognize abortion as murder.

These two examples from the "right" is why 60 million babies have been murdered in the
most gruesome ways imaginable

How do you suggest we prevent abortions? Banning isn’t going to do it. Same principle applies to guns.

Fewer pregnancies means fewer abortions.

Thus the point of the OP.

We should do all we can do to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That is the case with many legal issues. There is a lot of debate on where self defense ends and murder begins.


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And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

Multiple people on this thread have said abortion is murder. If they truly feel that way then they have to support murder charges for the mother and the doctor.


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No, they don't. I won't speak for them but the general consensus between pro life people is that they support such charges for the doctor but recognize the impossibility of applying that to the mother. Virtually no one supports punishing the mother for a failed pregnancy but they support charging the doctor for performing an elective abortive procedure.

Which shows the weakness of calling it murder. In any other circumstance if someone hires a person to kill someone they are also charged with a crime.

 

[FA_Q2]

And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

Multiple people on this thread have said abortion is murder. If they truly feel that way then they have to support murder charges for the mother and the doctor.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

No, they don't. I won't speak for them but the general consensus between pro life people is that they support such charges for the doctor but recognize the impossibility of applying that to the mother. Virtually no one supports punishing the mother for a failed pregnancy but they support charging the doctor for performing an elective abortive procedure.

Which shows the weakness of calling it murder. In any other circumstance if someone hires a person to kill someone they are also charged with a crime.

That is perhaps true but murder is a poor term in general considering that it is specifically a legally defined term. It definition is in constant flux - it will mean something slightly different next year and even means different things in different states. Such is a debate over semantics and is only used as a way to avoid the actual debate.

It is killing and those that call it murder are almost universally referring to it as such because they see it as an unjustified killing. No more and no less. Honestly, the reason no one advocates for charging the mother is the fact that it is totally impossible to do so. Should such law pass then I am pretty sure seeking out an abortion in the locality where it is illegal will become illegal as well - so is seeking out anything else that is illegal. However, there is always a conflation here between seeking out a procedure and actually having a pregnancy end. Look at the current slew of bullshit coverage on abortion challenges in the pipe - there was reporting all over the place claiming that miscarriages could end in an investigation and eventual charges jailing the mother for murder - a flat out lie.

If a pregnancy ends there is no investigation and no charges are going to be filed and no one anywhere wants to see that. What they do want to see is an end to institutionalized abortions.

 

[Chuz Life]

And there is the problem it seems no one can agree on even a legal definition of where the crossover is.

That is the case with many legal issues. There is a lot of debate on where self defense ends and murder begins.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

Multiple people on this thread have said abortion is murder. If they truly feel that way then they have to support murder charges for the mother and the doctor.


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I am only one voice in the efforts to recriminalize abortions. So, I know better than to presume that I speak for all the others.

I for one do support the argument for murder charges to (at least) remain on the table for women who abort.

It is what it is and the basis is very simple. If a woman (or anyone else) can be charged with murder for killing a child in the womb, even unintentionally, during the committing of a criminal act (sans our fetal homicide laws).... then why should that same woman be charged with anything less than a murder. . . If she kills a child INTENTIONALLY with an abortion?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That is the case with many legal issues. There is a lot of debate on where self defense ends and murder begins.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And soon we as a society are going to have to make a very hard decision. There will be many unhappy people with whatever decision is made. Thanks to medical technology we have children able to live outside the human body until they are able to breathe on their own. That time will slowly advance. Right now it maybe a coin toss if a state would call the willful death of a premature baby as an abortion or a murder.

Do you really think there are enough people in this country that want to charge women with murder for having an abortion for it to become law?

If it did become law, would we not then have to investigate every miscarriage to ensure the mother was not at fault?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

There are practically 0 people that want to charge mothers with abortions.

That is a pointless talking point. The pro-life position is against the sanctioning of abortion though medical practice.

Multiple people on this thread have said abortion is murder. If they truly feel that way then they have to support murder charges for the mother and the doctor.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I am only one voice in the efforts to decriminalize abortions. So, I know better than to presume that I speak for all the others.

I for one do support the argument for murder charges to (at least) remain on the table for women who abort.

It is what it is and the basis is very simple. If a woman (or anyone else) can be charged with murder for killing a child in the womb, even unintentionally, during the committing of a criminal act (sans our fetal homicide laws).... then why should that same woman be charged with anything less than a murder. . . If she kills a child INTENTIONALLY with an abortion?

Thank you for being straight forward. It is a conundrum that is for sure, one of many laws we have that really make no logical sense.

Why is porn legal and prostitution not?

Why is beer legal and pot is not?

 

[caddo kid]

I support abortion bans in principle, because abortion is murder. However if abortion is banned, women will still have them.

Abortion is not ‘murder’ – and the notion of ‘banning’ abortion is devoid of principle, it’s just authoritarianism.

The real reason you want abortions is to prevent the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ...admit it already.


.

So, Jesus is gonna be born again?