If you overturn Roe, how do you plan to enforce an abortion ban?

[jgarden]

Abortion Rates Are Higher In Countries Where Procedure Is Illegal, Study Finds
01/18/12

LONDON -- Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.

Experts couldn't say whether more liberal laws led to fewer procedures, but said good access to birth control in those countries resulted in fewer unwanted pregnancies.

..... About 47,000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008, and another 8.5 million women had serious medical complications. Almost all unsafe abortions were in developing countries, where family planning and contraceptive programs have mostly levelled off.

"An abortion is actually a very simple and safe procedure," said Gilda Sedgh, a senior researcher at the U.S.-based Guttmacher Institute, designated by the World Health Organization as an official Collaborating Center for Reproductive Health. "All of these deaths and complications are easily avoidable," said Sedgh, the study's lead author.

Sedgh and colleagues concluded that the proportion of unsafe abortions rose from 44 percent in 1995 to 49 percent in 2008, the last year for which statistics were available and studied in the report. Sedgh acknowledged it was difficult to get an accurate number for unsafe abortions in particular and described their estimates as modest.

..... Abortion rates were lowest in Western Europe – 12 per 1,000 – and highest in Eastern Europe – 43 per 1,000. The rate in North America was 19 per 1,000. Sedgh said she and colleagues found a link between higher abortion rates and regions with more restrictive legislation, such as in Latin America and Africa. They also found that 95 to 97 percent of abortions in those regions were unsafe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...higher-countries-illegal-study_n_1215045.html

There is no reason to believe that repealing Roe v Wade would actually reduce the number of abortions in America BUT it would increase the number of women who died or suffered "serious medical complications" as a result of medically unsafe abortions.

 

[Avatar4321]

Overturning Roe doesn't ban abortion so your question is uninformed.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Since we are all talking stuff (as VP Biden would say) about Abortion, here's the question I'd like to hear the people who scream "baby killer" answer.

If you got Roe v. Wade overturned, and got a lot of states to ban abortion, however are you going to enforce this law?

Are you going to throw the women who have them in prison? give them the death penalty?

One idiot yesterday actually suggested forcible sterilization.

But this is your chance, social engineers. Tell me how your ideal society with no abortion is going to work.

Take away the licenses of doctors, nurses, medical facilities that perform abortions and then if they continues to perform abortions arrest them for practicing medicine without a license.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Simple really, Matt.

Basically they want to go back to the time when wealthy girls in trouble disappeared for a brief visit to their "aunt", while poor girls spawned unwanted children, or they put their lives into the hands of unlicenced abortionists.

So all These good ol boys want to return to those golden days of yore, understand?

Another one who thinks he is clever.

Two thirds of all Americans oppose second trimester abortions. Does that sound like its all good ol boys to you, dumbass?

As for "unlicensed abortionists", at the time Roe v. Wade was overturned most abortions were being performed by the very same doctors who perform them today. The back alley bullshit meme is just that, bullshit. The death rate from illegal abortions was almost as low as the death rate from legal abortions..

How do you figure?


Prior to Roe v. Wade, as many as 5,000 American women died annually as a direct result of unsafe abortions.4 Today, abortion is one of the most commonly performed clinical procedures in the United States, and the current death rate from abortion at all stages of gestations is 0.6 per 100,000 procedures. This is 11 times safer than carrying a pregnancy to term and nearly twice as safe as a penicillin injection.2

Abortion - The Impact of Illegal Abortion - Our Bodies Ourselves


The risk of death following an unsafe abortion is several hundred times higher than that of an abortion performed legally and safely. In developing countries, where abortion is often illegal or highly restricted, abortion mortality rates are hundreds of times higher than rates in developed countries (see Table 1 below). Laws that make abortion illegal do not eliminate abortions; they make abortions unsafe.

Table 1: Abortion-Related Deaths

Region
Deaths per 100,000 abortions

Developing 1
330

Africa
680

South & Southeast Asia
283

Latin America
119

Developed
.0.2-1.2

1. Excluding China. Source: The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), Sharing Responsibility: Women, Society and Abortion Worldwide, New York : AGI, 1999, p. 35.

Technical Issues In Reproductive Health

 

[Listening]

Abortion Rates Are Higher In Countries Where Procedure Is Illegal, Study Finds
01/18/12

LONDON -- Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.

Experts couldn't say whether more liberal laws led to fewer procedures, but said good access to birth control in those countries resulted in fewer unwanted pregnancies.

..... About 47,000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008, and another 8.5 million women had serious medical complications. Almost all unsafe abortions were in developing countries, where family planning and contraceptive programs have mostly levelled off.

"An abortion is actually a very simple and safe procedure," said Gilda Sedgh, a senior researcher at the U.S.-based Guttmacher Institute, designated by the World Health Organization as an official Collaborating Center for Reproductive Health. "All of these deaths and complications are easily avoidable," said Sedgh, the study's lead author.

Sedgh and colleagues concluded that the proportion of unsafe abortions rose from 44 percent in 1995 to 49 percent in 2008, the last year for which statistics were available and studied in the report. Sedgh acknowledged it was difficult to get an accurate number for unsafe abortions in particular and described their estimates as modest.

..... Abortion rates were lowest in Western Europe – 12 per 1,000 – and highest in Eastern Europe – 43 per 1,000. The rate in North America was 19 per 1,000. Sedgh said she and colleagues found a link between higher abortion rates and regions with more restrictive legislation, such as in Latin America and Africa. They also found that 95 to 97 percent of abortions in those regions were unsafe.

Abortion Rates Are Higher In Countries Where Procedure Is Illegal, Study Finds

There is no reason to believe that repealing Roe v Wade would actually reduce the number of abortions in America BUT it would increase the number of women who died or suffered "serious medical complications" as a result of medically unsafe abortions.

So that's a reason to ignore the constitution ?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Hi sfCA -- what do you think about my previous general question?

Isn't it unbelievable that a person who kills a pregnant woman will be charged with TWO murders (as they should) ... but a 'doctor' who kills a baby walks free.

curious ...

 

[2ndAmendment]

Abortion Rates Are Higher In Countries Where Procedure Is Illegal, Study Finds
01/18/12

LONDON -- Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.

Experts couldn't say whether more liberal laws led to fewer procedures, but said good access to birth control in those countries resulted in fewer unwanted pregnancies.

..... About 47,000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008, and another 8.5 million women had serious medical complications. Almost all unsafe abortions were in developing countries, where family planning and contraceptive programs have mostly levelled off.

"An abortion is actually a very simple and safe procedure," said Gilda Sedgh, a senior researcher at the U.S.-based Guttmacher Institute, designated by the World Health Organization as an official Collaborating Center for Reproductive Health. "All of these deaths and complications are easily avoidable," said Sedgh, the study's lead author.

Sedgh and colleagues concluded that the proportion of unsafe abortions rose from 44 percent in 1995 to 49 percent in 2008, the last year for which statistics were available and studied in the report. Sedgh acknowledged it was difficult to get an accurate number for unsafe abortions in particular and described their estimates as modest.

..... Abortion rates were lowest in Western Europe – 12 per 1,000 – and highest in Eastern Europe – 43 per 1,000. The rate in North America was 19 per 1,000. Sedgh said she and colleagues found a link between higher abortion rates and regions with more restrictive legislation, such as in Latin America and Africa. They also found that 95 to 97 percent of abortions in those regions were unsafe.

Abortion Rates Are Higher In Countries Where Procedure Is Illegal, Study Finds

There is no reason to believe that repealing Roe v Wade would actually reduce the number of abortions in America BUT it would increase the number of women who died or suffered "serious medical complications" as a result of medically unsafe abortions.

So that's a reason to ignore the constitution ?

And the Declaration of Independence ... LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ...

 

[sfcalifornia]

Hi sfCA -- what do you think about my previous general question?

Isn't it unbelievable that a person who kills a pregnant woman will be charged with TWO murders (as they should) ... but a 'doctor' who kills a baby walks free.

curious ...

Hi 2A

Here's what I think:


If a person kills a prisoner who is on death row, the killer is still charged with murder even though it doesn't change the fate of the prisoner.

If a person kills a mother and takes the life of the fetus as a result, that person is just as guilty whether the mother intended to keep the fetus or not.

And that's why the Unborn Victim's law applies to all stages of pregnancy. Abortion is generally not allowed after 21 weeks.

 

[Thunderbird]

There is no reason to believe that repealing Roe v Wade would actually reduce the number of abortions in America

This is really stupid. In the countries you mention abortion is illegal in name only. These mostly poor countries do not have the means to stop the brutal abortion industry.

The goal should be to prevent the ugly abortion industry from abusing women and killing off unborn babies.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Return abortion regulation completely to the states, and the women en masse will move into the Democratic Party.

Let Middle Class Molly not be able to take her scholarship at UpState U, her mother will vote Democrat the next, and Molly will be a lifetime Democrat as well voting Dem when she is old enough.

Let's just leave it the way it is.

 

[Thunderbird]

Prior to Roe v. Wade, as many as 5,000 American women died annually as a direct result of unsafe abortions.

Please stop spreading lies.

quote: Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of the National Abortion Rights Action League, admits his group lied about the number of women who died from illegal abortions when testifying before the Supreme Court in 1972. "We spoke of 5,000 - 10,000 deaths a year.... I confess that I knew the figures were totally false ... it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics?"

LINK

Here's another quote from the same link: By the year before the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision allowing legal abortion on demand in all fifty states, the death rate for illegal abortions had fallen to 24 in 1972 (with 25 additional deaths as a result of legal abortions). Now abortion was legal in all fifty states and back alley abortions eliminated with their alleged total of maternal deaths. In 1973 there should have been a sharp drop in abortion-related deaths if abortion advocates were right that legalizing abortion would make abortion safe.

Yet abortion-related deaths increased again with 25 deaths resulting from legal abortion in 1973, 26 in 1974 and 29 in 1975.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Hi sfCA -- what do you think about my previous general question?

Isn't it unbelievable that a person who kills a pregnant woman will be charged with TWO murders (as they should) ... but a 'doctor' who kills a baby walks free.

curious ...

Hi 2A

Here's what I think:


If a person kills a prisoner who is on death row, the killer is still charged with murder even though it doesn't change the fate of the prisoner.

If a person kills a mother and takes the life of the fetus as a result, that person is just as guilty whether the mother intended to keep the fetus or not.

And that's why the Unborn Victim's law applies to all stages of pregnancy. Abortion is generally not allowed after 21 weeks.

Thanks and Ok. But, that doesn't answer my specific question.

 

[Thunderbird]

Only a moron would think that subservience to the abortion industry makes you pro-woman.

1) Planned Parenthood, which receives 100s of millions of taxpayer dollars, lies to women. If you really care about choice you don't lie to the one making the decision.

Planned Parenthood’s use of unscientific and fabricated medical information

2) Just a few of the women chewed up by the abortion industry:

New 911 tape reveals botched abortion at Virginia Planned Parenthood

Authorities: Abortion doctors charged with murder

16-Year-Old Girl Suffered Botched Abortion at Planned Parenthood

DA: West Philadelphia abortion doctor killed 7 babies with scissors

The abortion industry, like many industries, has captured the regulatory apparatus. Legalization means mistreatment of women and a huge expansion of the industry.

For example: Lax state oversight results in widespread violations at Michigan abortion providers, report says

3) The abortion industry represents the greatest assault on women in human history. Tens of millions of unborn baby girls have been killed for the "crime" of being a girl!

Sex-Selection Abortion: A War on Baby Girls

4) Not a few abortions are forced on women.

Pregnant Woman Threatened & Assaulted for Refusing Abortion

Why it's The UnChoice
Most abortions are unwanted or coerced, many forced. Women are dying, too. Human rights abuse misrepresented as "choice."

And many rich people & bigots are eager to pressure working women & women of color into killing off their future.

5) The abortion industry just wants more abortions. They have no problem endangering women's health.

Planned Parenthood pushes California bill to let non-physicians conduct abortions

 

[Thunderbird]

Racists love the abortion industry.

Abortionist sees aborting ‘ugly black babies’ as a service to the taxpayers, apparently

 

[JoeB131]

Overturning Roe doesn't ban abortion so your question is uninformed.

That's kind of like saying if you drop a ton of bricks off the side of a building, you aren't responsible for anyone it hits.

Roe was passed because the states enacted these mean-spirited laws to start with, many of which weren't enforced, and a lot of women were being maimed in the process.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Will somebody explan to those who don't get it just what 'murder' is?

 

[hazlnut]

I'd just give it back to the states. No ban.

Red states are too backwards to be trusted with this.

They can't even educate their own kids.

Why the fuck would we allow states like Mississippi to decide anything but their own state bird?

 

[U2Edge]

Since we are all talking stuff (as VP Biden would say) about Abortion, here's the question I'd like to hear the people who scream "baby killer" answer.

If you got Roe v. Wade overturned, and got a lot of states to ban abortion, however are you going to enforce this law?

Are you going to throw the women who have them in prison? give them the death penalty?

One idiot yesterday actually suggested forcible sterilization.

But this is your chance, social engineers. Tell me how your ideal society with no abortion is going to work.

Well, prior to 1973, that was the law. The Country was doing just fine as well.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Hi sfCA -- what do you think about my previous general question?



curious ...

Hi 2A

Here's what I think:


If a person kills a prisoner who is on death row, the killer is still charged with murder even though it doesn't change the fate of the prisoner.

If a person kills a mother and takes the life of the fetus as a result, that person is just as guilty whether the mother intended to keep the fetus or not.

And that's why the Unborn Victim's law applies to all stages of pregnancy. Abortion is generally not allowed after 21 weeks.

Thanks and Ok. But, that doesn't answer my specific question.

More like you're fishing for a specific answer and you're not getting it.

 

[Thunderbird]

The abortion industry wants to cover-up the dangers associated with abortion. The industry places profit over women's health.

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth
New Studies Unmask High Maternal Death Rates From Abortion

How Abortion Hurts Women: The Hard Proof