If God doesn't exist...

[ding]

...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Just because you don't know doesn't mean a miracle occured. That's such a primitive unscientific way of thinking.

No, as a rational person because I can't explain something that doesn't mean a miracle occured. Something amazing and miraculous occured that's for sure.

I wonder what was before the big bang? That too is another unknowable thing. Are there other universes? What's beyond our universe?

So what if a God doesn't exist? What if time space and universes are eternal? They must be. If not what did God do before our universe?

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an eternal universe.

What's an eternal universe? Our universe is just one of many. Think of a lava lamp only infinite.

You're thinking too small. Think outside the universe or beyond it. What's beyond that? Are you saying God doesn't exist outside our universe?

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

 

[ding]

Your benevolent, omnipotent God dictates all human behavior. Thus he allowed it, didn't know about, didn't care, or doesn't exist....

According to my limited knowledge of Christianity - false.

According to my limited knowledge of Christianity - true

The Christian God is all-knowing and omnipotent. The fact that He allows terrible things to happen to humanity, means one of the options. I don't know how you can argue that, but I'm always open to new options. But you have to admit, those are the only real options.

So you gotta soak that up, and step outside the box for a bit. And then maybe there are some other ideas that could help better explain stuff....

I personally don't get the 'God' thing. Why create a universe where there's do much suffering. If I was God I would have created one where everyone was happy - no suffering. No brainer.

Order from chaos.

That doesn't make sense.

Why not?

 

[sealybobo]

Just because you don't know doesn't mean a miracle occured. That's such a primitive unscientific way of thinking.

No, as a rational person because I can't explain something that doesn't mean a miracle occured. Something amazing and miraculous occured that's for sure.

I wonder what was before the big bang? That too is another unknowable thing. Are there other universes? What's beyond our universe?

So what if a God doesn't exist? What if time space and universes are eternal? They must be. If not what did God do before our universe?

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an eternal universe.

What's an eternal universe? Our universe is just one of many. Think of a lava lamp only infinite.

You're thinking too small. Think outside the universe or beyond it. What's beyond that? Are you saying God doesn't exist outside our universe?

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

 

[ding]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

I found reference to this simple, penetrating piece of wisdom – prominently displayed in our kitchen – bracingly therapeutic during my long period of recovering my energy, especially at times when self-pity threatened to take me over.

Life requires both chaos and order. With chaos alone, nothing could take form. Order by itself shuts down creativity and ultimately life itself. Chaos and order interpenetrate at every level from the most trivial to the most profound.

Order and Chaos – a Buddhist ‘take’

 

[Damaged Eagle]

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an eternal universe.

What's an eternal universe? Our universe is just one of many. Think of a lava lamp only infinite.

You're thinking too small. Think outside the universe or beyond it. What's beyond that? Are you saying God doesn't exist outside our universe?

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

Did you study physics, astronomy, and math at college as your major?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Brynmr]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

 

[Brynmr]

According to my limited knowledge of Christianity - false.

According to my limited knowledge of Christianity - true

The Christian God is all-knowing and omnipotent. The fact that He allows terrible things to happen to humanity, means one of the options. I don't know how you can argue that, but I'm always open to new options. But you have to admit, those are the only real options.

So you gotta soak that up, and step outside the box for a bit. And then maybe there are some other ideas that could help better explain stuff....

I personally don't get the 'God' thing. Why create a universe where there's do much suffering. If I was God I would have created one where everyone was happy - no suffering. No brainer.

Order from chaos.

That doesn't make sense.

Why not?

I mean that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ding]

What's an eternal universe? Our universe is just one of many. Think of a lava lamp only infinite.

You're thinking too small. Think outside the universe or beyond it. What's beyond that? Are you saying God doesn't exist outside our universe?

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

Did you study physics, astronomy, and math at college as your major?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Do I need to list my course curriculum?

 

[ding]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

Order from chaos is more than suffering. Sure suffering is part of it. Do you believe that good can come from bad? Do you believe that lessons can come from mistakes? Do you believe that excellence can come from competition? Those are part of it too.

 

[ding]

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an eternal universe.

What's an eternal universe? Our universe is just one of many. Think of a lava lamp only infinite.

You're thinking too small. Think outside the universe or beyond it. What's beyond that? Are you saying God doesn't exist outside our universe?

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

Good one.

 

[MaryL]

Does it matter? God hides so well, it'd hard to tell whether God is real or not. Why would a loving god play games like that?

 

[Brynmr]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

Order from chaos is more than suffering. Sure suffering is part of it. Do you believe that good can come from bad? Do you believe that lessons can come from mistakes? Do you believe that excellence can come from competition? Those are part of it too.

I was just commenting on suffering - putting a more accurate point on it.

As to your explanation: it still begs the question why create a universe where the beings you created suffer? Just so they can struggle OUT of suffering? So they can become better people? That's absurd. That doesn't make any sense. Create better people. Create a universe where people already don't suffer. Create one where everyone is happy. Done and done.

 

[ding]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

Order from chaos is more than suffering. Sure suffering is part of it. Do you believe that good can come from bad? Do you believe that lessons can come from mistakes? Do you believe that excellence can come from competition? Those are part of it too.

I was just commenting on suffering - putting a more accurate point on it.

As to your explanation: it still begs the question why create a universe where the beings you created suffer? Just so they can struggle OUT of suffering? So they can become better people? That's absurd. That doesn't make any sense. Create better people. Create a universe where people already don't suffer. Create one where everyone is happy. Done and done.

Do they only suffer?

 

[Brynmr]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

Order from chaos is more than suffering. Sure suffering is part of it. Do you believe that good can come from bad? Do you believe that lessons can come from mistakes? Do you believe that excellence can come from competition? Those are part of it too.

I was just commenting on suffering - putting a more accurate point on it.

As to your explanation: it still begs the question why create a universe where the beings you created suffer? Just so they can struggle OUT of suffering? So they can become better people? That's absurd. That doesn't make any sense. Create better people. Create a universe where people already don't suffer. Create one where everyone is happy. Done and done.

Do they only suffer?

Yes, but let's not get side tracked. Even if only sometimes people suffer. Why create such a world where there is any suffering.

 

[ding]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

Order from chaos is more than suffering. Sure suffering is part of it. Do you believe that good can come from bad? Do you believe that lessons can come from mistakes? Do you believe that excellence can come from competition? Those are part of it too.

I was just commenting on suffering - putting a more accurate point on it.

As to your explanation: it still begs the question why create a universe where the beings you created suffer? Just so they can struggle OUT of suffering? So they can become better people? That's absurd. That doesn't make any sense. Create better people. Create a universe where people already don't suffer. Create one where everyone is happy. Done and done.

Do they only suffer?

Yes, but let's not get side tracked. Even if only sometimes people suffer. Why create such a world where there is any suffering.

I'm not changing the subject. I don't accept that people don't have joy. No one suffers all of the time. The better off we have it the more skewed our perception becomes.

Assigning acts of men to God is ridiculous. His Ways are not our ways. To suppose that there can be no God unless everything is perfect is illogical. The answer to your question is that it is not virtuous if you are made to behave virtuous. It seems to me that the crop He is growing is virtue. How do I know? Because like all stages of matter before it, consciousness and conscienceness are evolving. Subatomic particles evolved to hydrogen and helium, hydrogen and helium evolved to cosmic structure, cosmic structure evolved to all the elements and compound we see today, nonliving matter evolved to living matter and living matter evolved to beings that know and create. The final leap to be made is consciousness / conscienceness.

Furthermore, He uses everything for our good. Good does come from bad and bad does come from good. Hardship can build character. There has never been an uncaused event. Everything is cause and effect. Goodness does rise from hardship. People do overcome adversity and actually grow from it.

 

[BreezeWood]

In essence, the Buddhist view is that suffering is caused by wishing for things to be other than they are.

That's not quite it.

Suffering (all 3 types) are caused by ignorance of self grasping. Self grasping is the misconception that the 'I' exists inherently. From this misconception arises the misconception of all phenomena as existing inherently.

That's the root - the start of all suffering.

Order from chaos is more than suffering. Sure suffering is part of it. Do you believe that good can come from bad? Do you believe that lessons can come from mistakes? Do you believe that excellence can come from competition? Those are part of it too.

I was just commenting on suffering - putting a more accurate point on it.

As to your explanation: it still begs the question why create a universe where the beings you created suffer? Just so they can struggle OUT of suffering? So they can become better people? That's absurd. That doesn't make any sense. Create better people. Create a universe where people already don't suffer. Create one where everyone is happy. Done and done.

Do they only suffer?

Yes, but let's not get side tracked. Even if only sometimes people suffer. Why create such a world where there is any suffering.

.

Why create such a world where there is any suffering.

the (spoken) religion contrasts paradise as it was with admission after dismissal, The Garden of Eden and why the notion of a redeemer is antithetical to the stated goal of redemption. purity in completion for each individual, a Sabbath.

it's not a creation, suffering but a compromise from extinction offered by the Almighty.

.

 

[sealybobo]

The intelligence of the person have nothing to do with belief. Do you know what cognitive dissonance is? Or wishful thinking?

Lots of people choose to believe. In other words they hope it's true. They don't care that a virgin birth seems far fetched. And it doesn't bother them that there are 999 other religions out there with different miracle stories.

And how does a scientist deny micro evolution? You believe God poofed down fully grown adults to start. And fully grown giraffes and goats and chicke and snakes and birds. Is that correct? This God made us the way we are or did we crawl out of the water at one point? How does a scientist not believe in evolution?

If you believe in evolution then you only believe in a generic God and I'm cool with that

 

[sealybobo]

What's an eternal universe? Our universe is just one of many. Think of a lava lamp only infinite.

You're thinking too small. Think outside the universe or beyond it. What's beyond that? Are you saying God doesn't exist outside our universe?

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

Did you study physics, astronomy, and math at college as your major?

*****CHUCKLE*****

My last reply was in reply to your post but it looks like I didn't address it to you.

I am interested in your scientific explanation of how land animals all first got started. Did they start out as babies or adults? How did the first get here?

Now I don't know how the first life on earth got started either but I accept evolution as the most probable explanation

 

[Damaged Eagle]

And yet the 2nd law of thermodynamics still precludes an infinite universe with usable energy.

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

Did you study physics, astronomy, and math at college as your major?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Do I need to list my course curriculum?

No.

I was questioning Sealybobo

*****SMILE*****

 

[ding]

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

I watched the Old and New Cosmos series 4 times each.

Did you study physics, astronomy, and math at college as your major?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Do I need to list my course curriculum?

View attachment 102121

No.

I was questioning Sealybobo

*****SMILE*****

Sorry, I did not realize it was not directed to me.