hypothetical scenario- armed teacher

[Ray From Cleveland]

all the horseshit RW's are posting on this thread is why school shootings will continue to take place...

The only way to stop a crime is with a strong enough deterrent.

that hasnt been invented yet

Years ago I went to a store that just opened up around the corner. When I got there, the police were leaving. I asked the young clerk what was going on, and he told me a drunk came in there and stole some cigarettes. He said it's been an ongoing problem since his family opened up the store.

They were from the middle-east and he stayed in touch with his grandmother over there. She was able to read English, so she asked if he would send her our little newspaper so she can better understand his new world.

She wrote back with great concern for her grandson. She stated that we have more theft in our little suburb in one week than the entire middle-east has in a years time. I asked him if that was true, and he concurred.

He said where he lived, markets were outside. They would place picnic tables and umbrellas for folks to rest. If a woman lay her purse on a table and walked away, people wouldn't go near it. If they spotted it walking down the street, they'd cross to the other side. If left all night, it would be there the next morning.

He said where he was from, if you get caught stealing anything, off comes your hand, and not in a hospital either. Steal a second time, off comes the other hand. The third time? There is no third time. In America, punks will tackle a helpless old lady just to take her belongings, and if caught, will be out of jail in a week or two. That's why there is little theft in the middle-east.

 

[JBond]

So, NaziCons like Trump and the NRA now want to arm teachers. That's funny...and ironic...

The Nazi's, National Socialists, disarmed the population they wanted to subjugate. Pay attention.

 

[Yarddog]

In that type of environment could they not fit bullet proof doors at intervals so that theteacher could get closer to get off a shot?

No, better off trying to use your brain.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

In that type of environment could they not fit bullet proof doors at intervals so that theteacher could get closer to get off a shot?

Schools have steal doors. They can withstand gunfire until it gets quite close.

They'd have to be hella thick doors to stop a 5.56
This is .400 thick 4140 commercial heat treated steel.
View attachment 178802

Nope. Anyone that has shot a .556 or .223 knows that is not happening.

Yep...
Some 1/4 inch AR500 plate would be up to the task but that'd be one heavy ass door!

 

[ThisIsMe]

If you cant get the the gun in there is no shooting...end of story......its not complicated and libs get to avoid having armed teachers on the premises

This would be based upon the assumption the only way to get a gun would be to buy one from an authorized dealer. Unfortunately, there are many ways to get firearms. Black market, private sale, theft, or taking it out of a friend or family members gun case.

If dealer purchase was the only way you could get a gun, yes, you could change things, but because there are over 330 million guns in the u.s.

The fact that there were multiple warning signs that were ignored, multiple calls to the authorities and social media posts where the shooter told everyone his plans, that went ignored.

Perhaps if a person is known to own guns, has a history of behavior problems, and makes threatening statements, maybe we take a look at those people?

 

[Siete]

If you cant get the the gun in there is no shooting...end of story......its not complicated and libs get to avoid having armed teachers on the premises

This would be based upon the assumption the only way to get a gun would be to buy one from an authorized dealer. Unfortunately, there are many ways to get firearms. Black market, private sale, theft, or taking it out of a friend or family members gun case.

If dealer purchase was the only way you could get a gun, yes, you could change things, but because there are over 330 million guns in the u.s.

The fact that there were multiple warning signs that were ignored, multiple calls to the authorities and social media posts where the shooter told everyone his plans, that went ignored.

Perhaps if a person is known to own guns, has a history of behavior problems, and makes threatening statements, maybe we take a look at those people?

or a troubled teen buying his first gun - an assault rifle.

 

[initforme]

If the cheapskate taxpayers will pay for the gun, ammunition, and a ten thousand dollar bonus to teachers who have access them everyone is on board. Also pay for full day substitutes for the training. Then at least 4x a month practice at a range. I'm in.

 

[Siete]

If the cheapskate taxpayers will pay for the gun, ammunition, and a ten thousand dollar bonus to teachers who have access them everyone is on board. Also pay for full day substitutes for the training. Then at least 4x a month practice at a range. I'm in.

between grading papers, giving assignments, giving tests, grading tests teachers dont have time to do that job, and THEY DONT FUCKING WANT TO ----

live in reality for a change, your world is sorely lacking.

 

[ThisIsMe]

If you cant get the the gun in there is no shooting...end of story......its not complicated and libs get to avoid having armed teachers on the premises

This would be based upon the assumption the only way to get a gun would be to buy one from an authorized dealer. Unfortunately, there are many ways to get firearms. Black market, private sale, theft, or taking it out of a friend or family members gun case.

If dealer purchase was the only way you could get a gun, yes, you could change things, but because there are over 330 million guns in the u.s.

The fact that there were multiple warning signs that were ignored, multiple calls to the authorities and social media posts where the shooter told everyone his plans, that went ignored.

Perhaps if a person is known to own guns, has a history of behavior problems, and makes threatening statements, maybe we take a look at those people?

or a troubled teen buying his first gun - an assault rifle.

Yep, that is also a possibility. Again, as I stated previously, go ahead and take all the action against semi auto weapons you like, but, please assure us that by taking this action, that all mass shootings will cease.

If you can't, then obviously banning semi auto weapons is not the issue.

 

[Siete]

If you cant get the the gun in there is no shooting...end of story......its not complicated and libs get to avoid having armed teachers on the premises

This would be based upon the assumption the only way to get a gun would be to buy one from an authorized dealer. Unfortunately, there are many ways to get firearms. Black market, private sale, theft, or taking it out of a friend or family members gun case.

If dealer purchase was the only way you could get a gun, yes, you could change things, but because there are over 330 million guns in the u.s.

The fact that there were multiple warning signs that were ignored, multiple calls to the authorities and social media posts where the shooter told everyone his plans, that went ignored.

Perhaps if a person is known to own guns, has a history of behavior problems, and makes threatening statements, maybe we take a look at those people?

or a troubled teen buying his first gun - an assault rifle.

Yep, that is also a possibility. Again, as I stated previously, go ahead and take all the action against semi auto weapons you like, but, please assure us that by taking this action, that all mass shootings will cease.

If you can't, then obviously banning semi auto weapons is not the issue.

I have no interest in a gun ban of any kind, but age limits need to apply and make parental consent mandatory. Increase school security with retired military that served in combat missions. No old rent a cops or fat retired patrol officers.

 

[ThisIsMe]

If you cant get the the gun in there is no shooting...end of story......its not complicated and libs get to avoid having armed teachers on the premises

This would be based upon the assumption the only way to get a gun would be to buy one from an authorized dealer. Unfortunately, there are many ways to get firearms. Black market, private sale, theft, or taking it out of a friend or family members gun case.

If dealer purchase was the only way you could get a gun, yes, you could change things, but because there are over 330 million guns in the u.s.

The fact that there were multiple warning signs that were ignored, multiple calls to the authorities and social media posts where the shooter told everyone his plans, that went ignored.

Perhaps if a person is known to own guns, has a history of behavior problems, and makes threatening statements, maybe we take a look at those people?

or a troubled teen buying his first gun - an assault rifle.

Yep, that is also a possibility. Again, as I stated previously, go ahead and take all the action against semi auto weapons you like, but, please assure us that by taking this action, that all mass shootings will cease.

If you can't, then obviously banning semi auto weapons is not the issue.

I have no interest in a gun ban of any kind, but age limits need to apply and make parental consent mandatory. Increase school security with retired military that served in combat missions. No old rent a cops or fat retired patrol officers.

You see, there is a muddy area here. Sure, one could say that a 19 year old has no business with an ar style rifle, but at the same time, there are a lot of responsible kids out there who wouldn't have any issues owning one.

Also. A lot of responsible adult gun owners started learning how to respect guns as kids.

 

[harmonica]

Add to that the chaos and confusion of the situation: students and teachers running in all directions, screaming, shouting, the sound of gunfire in the hallway absent hearing protection.

And we can assume teachers would be armed with semi-auto pistols, which require considerable experience and training to be even moderately proficient and accurate.

The idea that armed teachers can prevent school shootings is ignorant idiocy, resulting in only more dead students, shot by mistake by the inexperienced teachers who were supposed to protect them.

Why would you refuse training for the teachers? Nearly anyone can become proficient.

possibly ---with a lot of and continuous training...but even then you can't get REAL training with someone firing at you
even trained cops are notorious for inaccuracy

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If you cant get the the gun in there is no shooting...end of story......its not complicated and libs get to avoid having armed teachers on the premises

This would be based upon the assumption the only way to get a gun would be to buy one from an authorized dealer. Unfortunately, there are many ways to get firearms. Black market, private sale, theft, or taking it out of a friend or family members gun case.

If dealer purchase was the only way you could get a gun, yes, you could change things, but because there are over 330 million guns in the u.s.

The fact that there were multiple warning signs that were ignored, multiple calls to the authorities and social media posts where the shooter told everyone his plans, that went ignored.

Perhaps if a person is known to own guns, has a history of behavior problems, and makes threatening statements, maybe we take a look at those people?

or a troubled teen buying his first gun - an assault rifle.

Yep, that is also a possibility. Again, as I stated previously, go ahead and take all the action against semi auto weapons you like, but, please assure us that by taking this action, that all mass shootings will cease.

If you can't, then obviously banning semi auto weapons is not the issue.

I have no interest in a gun ban of any kind, but age limits need to apply and make parental consent mandatory. Increase school security with retired military that served in combat missions. No old rent a cops or fat retired patrol officers.

The only time parental consent applies is when they're under 18.
But I wont argue with the rest of your post.
In fact I find it the most credible position I've seen from a liberal yet.
Kudos.

 

[DarkFury]

Dollar bill.

What's that on this planet, 6" ?

Dollar bill. I shoot small bore comp.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If the cheapskate taxpayers will pay for the gun, ammunition, and a ten thousand dollar bonus to teachers who have access them everyone is on board. Also pay for full day substitutes for the training. Then at least 4x a month practice at a range. I'm in.

between grading papers, giving assignments, giving tests, grading tests teachers dont have time to do that job, and THEY DONT FUCKING WANT TO ----

live in reality for a change, your world is sorely lacking.

How do you know? Did you ask each and every teacher? That's besides the fact Trump never said make it mandatory. He said if teachers are willing to do it. What you don't like is the fact there will be many teachers to step up to the plate to do it.

 

[bripat9643]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

You're assuming the shooter is going to stand in one place. When does that ever happen in these scenareos? He has to move to get more victims. The second he does you can fallow him and then gun him down.

Why go through the trouble when you can just fold your arms and blink your eyes?

Because you aren't a spineless snowflake.

Sent from my SM-G935P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

 

[JBond]

Add to that the chaos and confusion of the situation: students and teachers running in all directions, screaming, shouting, the sound of gunfire in the hallway absent hearing protection.

And we can assume teachers would be armed with semi-auto pistols, which require considerable experience and training to be even moderately proficient and accurate.

The idea that armed teachers can prevent school shootings is ignorant idiocy, resulting in only more dead students, shot by mistake by the inexperienced teachers who were supposed to protect them.

Why would you refuse training for the teachers? Nearly anyone can become proficient.

possibly ---with a lot of and continuous training...but even then you can't get REAL training with someone firing at you
even trained cops are notorious for inaccuracy

Good point about cops. I know several and most are not marksmen by any definition. I spend a lot of time in a very good simulator. I'm part of my church security team.

 

[Yarddog]

If the cheapskate taxpayers will pay for the gun, ammunition, and a ten thousand dollar bonus to teachers who have access them everyone is on board. Also pay for full day substitutes for the training. Then at least 4x a month practice at a range. I'm in.

between grading papers, giving assignments, giving tests, grading tests teachers dont have time to do that job, and THEY DONT FUCKING WANT TO ----

live in reality for a change, your world is sorely lacking.

How do you know? Did you ask each and every teacher? That's besides the fact Trump never said make it mandatory. He said if teachers are willing to do it. What you don't like is the fact there will be many teachers to step up to the plate to do it.

Yep, it comes down to civilians taking an active role in protecting our own society, as police cant be everywhere at all times. And the fact is, having teachers involved could be a very well regulated and controlled action. Still, they don't want to hear that.

 

[Rigby5]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

With even the largest magazine with an AR, he has to reload after 30 shots, so then that is your opportunity.
The other thing would be to either scare him by shooting out a window, or quietly wait until he moves closed towards you. Those are the 3 best options I can think of. And likely one of them would work.

But I agree the one thing you would not want to do is risk hitting a student because the range is too far.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you're the Athletic Director, you're in your office (front left beside the sign over the door) - you hear shooting and kids screaming for their life .. you open the gun safe in your closet, get your Glock 23 semi auto 9mm pistol and start out the door ... at the other end of the hall theres a kid standing at the bottom of the stairs with a semi auto AR 15 spraying shots down the hall in your direction as fast as he can squeeze the trigger, and bullets whizzing by you one after the other .. lets say those stairs are at least 45-50 steps, probably more... a lengthy shot for a pistol whatever the exact distance ... under those conditions, students running every direction, crowded hallway - could

YOU

leave your room, stay under total control,take careful aim and kill or wound the shooter stopping him from killing students without hitting and injuring any kids yourself?

Ive been around guns all of my life. I started shooting .22 rimfire pistols when I was 6 - .357 mag pistols when I was 12. I rate the degree of difficulty in that exact scenario on a scale of 1-10 .. 100+

what would you do ?

With even the largest magazine with an AR, he has to reload after 30 shots, so then that is your opportunity.
The other thing would be to either scare him by shooting out a window, or quietly wait until he moves closed towards you. Those are the 3 best options I can think of. And likely one of them would work.

But I agree the one thing you would not want to do is risk hitting a student because the range is too far.

As I stated earlier, in our CCW class, downrange was highlighted repeatedly.

But let's just take another scenario: An armed teacher believes his actions could jeopardize students. He doesn't have the range with his handgun that the AR shooter has. So he ushers in as many students as he can, and closes the door.

Now the shooter is going room to room looking for victims, and he ends up in the classroom of the armed teacher. He's not expecting to get gunned down before the door opens all the way.

That would have a much better outcome than a teacher sacrificing his life by taking bullets instead of the kids.