How long can republicans keep up the charade?

[uscitizen]

I think we start drawing against the surplus in less than 10 years and under current projections the surplus should last till 2060 or so.


But that surplus has to be paid back out of general funds.
That is gonna hurt.

But what does it matter the USA will fail before 2060 anyway.
And the world is supposed to end in 2012.

Well, hopefully the Obama Era will end in 2012.

It's important to note that in 1945, there were 42 taxpayers per beneficiary - we are now around 3:1. Unless we have a population explosion caused by increased birth rates per adult woman (highly unlikely), that ratio is projected to fall to 2.2:1 in 20 years.

Essentially, every taxpayer will be supporting two old people. In past generations, we'd be taking care of our own parents. Instead, we'll be taking care two strangers who have virtually enslaved us via the big hand of government.

In 20 years the surplus plus what is being paid in will support the seniors.

so I guess we need to encourage babies and medical care and education for them so they get good jobs and pay in more to SS?

 

[American Horse]

If the feds send me a check for $158,500 I will let them off the hook for MY SS. That is what has been paid into my account as of the first of the year.
And for around 36k I will let them off the hook for Medicare as well.
I can buy good ins for the rest of my life with 36K.

Your willingness to do these things illustrates how these two accounts have been mishandled, twith one problem being they have been loaded down with people who did not fulfill the original concept of being a lifelong contributor. And you must believe you can get a pretty good ROI for 158k in hand, and you must have checked the cost of health insurance in your own state, and it's not too bad, because you could live a good long time.

 

[uscitizen]

If the feds send me a check for $158,500 I will let them off the hook for MY SS. That is what has been paid into my account as of the first of the year.
And for around 36k I will let them off the hook for Medicare as well.
I can buy good ins for the rest of my life with 36K.

Your willingness to do these things illustrates how these two accounts have been mishandled, twith one problem being they have been loaded down with people who did not fulfill the original concept of being a lifelong contributor. And you must believe you can get a pretty good ROI for 158k in hand, and you must have checked the cost of health insurance in your own state, and it's not too bad, because you could live a good long time.

Nope I will not live to see 2012.

 

[American Horse]

Nope I will not live to see 2012.

Very sorry to hear that.

 

[uscitizen]

Nope I will not live to see 2012.

Very sorry to hear that.

thanks, I am kinda getting used to the idea.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

practice of defensive medicine

Defensive Medicine has been one of the popular boogeymen in this debate, and I just don't see it. What's wrong with taking the time to make sure you got things right. Several fatal diseases can't be found, or are misdiagnosed, when the doctor isn't using MRI and other advanced technologies.

Personal case: My Dad's first stroke was terribly misdiagnosed as depression. It wasn't until a doctor decided, nearly a month later, to CYA and get a scan that his stroke was discovered. Because of that he missed out on treatments that could have stopped or prevented the second stroke that killed him.

Taking the time to make sure a diagnosis is correct saves lives. That's worth the cost of defensive medicine to me.

 

[txlonghorn]

Why is there such a resistence to opening coverage purchase across state lines? Has anyone heard a good answer? I don't understand why this isn't a quick and easy way to lower costs and improve coverage to more Americans through good ol' fashioned competition.

10th Ammendment and legal issues. It basically comes down to the fact the States legally should be able to regulate insurance inside state lines to protect the consumer and the Fed doesn't have the authority to force the States to give that up.

I'm actually very skeptical of this solution myself. There's a reason that credit card companies are so choosey about where they base their operations. They intentionally look for states that have regulatory and legal options that give them the most advantage over you. Opening up insurance across state lines means that insurers would flee for States where the legal code would make it very difficult for the insured to prove malfeasance or fraud.

You might gain lower costs, but you'd increase the instances of insurance companies denying legal claims using shady/illegal methods and increase the odds they'd be able to fight off justifiable lawsuits in court.

thanks. that was a pretty well defined answer. but it occurs to me that the government is proposing regulations on insurance companies that would do away with the opportunity for denying claims using shady methods and more control over litigation issues as well. So, why not combine the two?

You said something else that struck me funny...the FED doesn't have the authority to force the states to give up their control of insurance regulations, but apparently, by providing the public option, has the power to potentially put many insurance companies out of business or forcing them to raise their rates so that only the uber-rich can afford their coverage . seems a bit ironic to me.

 

[Article 15]

The Republicans went to the Scott Boras School of Negotiation

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

if the feds send me a check for $158,500 i will let them off the hook for my ss. That is what has been paid into my account as of the first of the year.
And for around 36k i will let them off the hook for medicare as well.
I can buy good ins for the rest of my life with 36k.

your willingness to do these things illustrates how these two accounts have been mishandled, twith one problem being they have been loaded down with people who did not fulfill the original concept of being a lifelong contributor. And you must believe you can get a pretty good roi for 158k in hand, and you must have checked the cost of health insurance in your own state, and it's not too bad, because you could live a good long time.

nope i will not live to see 2012.

how do you feel about summer 2010?

 

[skookerasbil]

The party of "NO!!"............FTW!!!!!

 

[uscitizen]

your willingness to do these things illustrates how these two accounts have been mishandled, twith one problem being they have been loaded down with people who did not fulfill the original concept of being a lifelong contributor. And you must believe you can get a pretty good roi for 158k in hand, and you must have checked the cost of health insurance in your own state, and it's not too bad, because you could live a good long time.

nope i will not live to see 2012.

how do you feel about summer 2010?

I will likely be there.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Why is there such a resistence to opening coverage purchase across state lines? Has anyone heard a good answer? I don't understand why this isn't a quick and easy way to lower costs and improve coverage to more Americans through good ol' fashioned competition.

10th Ammendment and legal issues. It basically comes down to the fact the States legally should be able to regulate insurance inside state lines to protect the consumer and the Fed doesn't have the authority to force the States to give that up.

I'm actually very skeptical of this solution myself. There's a reason that credit card companies are so choosey about where they base their operations. They intentionally look for states that have regulatory and legal options that give them the most advantage over you. Opening up insurance across state lines means that insurers would flee for States where the legal code would make it very difficult for the insured to prove malfeasance or fraud.

You might gain lower costs, but you'd increase the instances of insurance companies denying legal claims using shady/illegal methods and increase the odds they'd be able to fight off justifiable lawsuits in court.

thanks. that was a pretty well defined answer. but it occurs to me that the government is proposing regulations on insurance companies that would do away with the opportunity for denying claims using shady methods and more control over litigation issues as well. So, why not combine the two?

You said something else that struck me funny...the FED doesn't have the authority to force the states to give up their control of insurance regulations, but apparently, by providing the public option, has the power to potentially put many insurance companies out of business or forcing them to raise their rates so that only the uber-rich can afford their coverage . seems a bit ironic to me.

That isn't lost on me. You'll probably be surprised to know that while I think healthcare reform should happen, and that a public option is probably inevitable in the long run, I very strongly believe that it absolutely should not happen at the Federal level.

Any public option, or for that matter, entitlements in general, should be run at the State level. The States are best equipped to be responsive to the citizens and know best what the citizens need. Standard of Living issues across the nation vary so greatly that I fear a Federal option would be doomed from the start.

 

[uscitizen]

How long can they keep it up? Well they started during the Clowntoon presidency.

 

[CMike]

The republicans would love health care reform.

They don't want the democrats version because it will fuck up the system much worse than it is now.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The republicans would love health care reform.

They don't want the democrats version because it will fuck up the system much worse than it is now.

All I've heard out of the GOP is:

1. Tort Reform: Only affects a small percentage of costs, and will only help if it also comes with legislation criminalizing malpractice. Folks like to paint malpractice lawsuits as part of the problem, but such lawsuits help insure that doctors stay focused on making correct, not rushed diagnosis. They also have the side effect of driving bad doctors out of business.

2. Open up insurance across state lines: Addressed elsewhere in this thread, but in short that undermines the authority of the states and opens up a whole other can of legal worms. I am skeptical that will fix anything.

3. Dismantle the employer based healthcare system we have now: That will screw up the system worse than even a public option would. Many many many people have insurance through their company, and many many many others not normaled insurable have coverage through a spouse or family member's insurance provided by a company. Dismantling that system, without a public safety net, just would force many more into the ranks of the uninsured and drive costs up more.

I'm not crazy about the plans coming out of the Pelosi and Reid Congress, but the GOP plan is part of the reason I voted against McCain in '08.

 

[beowolfe]

How long do you think congressional republicans can keep up the charade that they might actually support the "right" healthcare reform bill?

It's pretty clear that they don't want any healthcare reform legislation. And I don't criticize them on that since I'm not sure I want it either. But for political reasons they're unwilling to just come right out and say they don't want it. And so they've been keeping this charade going that seems to get more and more transparent with every passing day.

So, how long can they keep it up?

I think you are wrong. I truly believe that most people, including myself, would like to see some health care reform. The way we go about it is important. It should be something we can afford to do as a nation. What the government is throwing at us right now is very bad stuff and will destroy the country financially and give too much control to the government. We need to approach Health Care Reform in a different way.

I'd bet you don't know what healthcare changes are even in the bill the senate passed. Why? Because people mouthing party talking points (which is what you've done) don't usually have a clue.

 

[beowolfe]

The republicans would love health care reform.

They don't want the democrats version because it will fuck up the system much worse than it is now.

Got a crystal ball that allows you to see into the future, huh?

 

[Oldandtired]

The republicans would love health care reform.

They don't want the democrats version because it will fuck up the system much worse than it is now.

Got a crystal ball that allows you to see into the future, huh?

No...
We look at the past.

Canada
Social Security
Medicare
USPS

You dont like to learn from mistakes?

 

[Oldandtired]

How long do you think congressional republicans can keep up the charade that they might actually support the "right" healthcare reform bill?

It's pretty clear that they don't want any healthcare reform legislation. And I don't criticize them on that since I'm not sure I want it either. But for political reasons they're unwilling to just come right out and say they don't want it. And so they've been keeping this charade going that seems to get more and more transparent with every passing day.

So, how long can they keep it up?

I think you are wrong. I truly believe that most people, including myself, would like to see some health care reform. The way we go about it is important. It should be something we can afford to do as a nation. What the government is throwing at us right now is very bad stuff and will destroy the country financially and give too much control to the government. We need to approach Health Care Reform in a different way.

I'd bet you don't know what healthcare changes are even in the bill the senate passed. Why? Because people mouthing party talking points (which is what you've done) don't usually have a clue.

DId I miss something?

What healthcare bill was passed in the senate?

 

[uscitizen]

The republicans would love health care reform.

They don't want the democrats version because it will fuck up the system much worse than it is now.

Got a crystal ball that allows you to see into the future, huh?

No...
We look at the past.

Canada
Social Security
Medicare
USPS

You dont like to learn from mistakes?

You left out BOOSH.