F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Daryl Hunt]

This "Desk Jockey" was involved in the Wiesbauten (sp) War Games for the Soviet Air Force team. We reduced Nato to USAF A-10 that couldn't cross the channel and what was left of the Carrier Birds not lost in the first 3 days of the fight....

This is why I don't respond to your delusional threads. You are bat shit crazy. You live in a fantasy world. In your fantasy world, games are reality. I responded to this thread to answer my good friend Hossfly. And you went tripping over the edge once again.

Ah, play the golden boy, arrogance card once again. It gets people killed in combat.

 

[westwall]

This "Desk Jockey" was involved in the Wiesbauten (sp) War Games for the Soviet Air Force team. We reduced Nato to USAF A-10 that couldn't cross the channel and what was left of the Carrier Birds not lost in the first 3 days of the fight....

This is why I don't respond to your delusional threads. You are bat shit crazy. You live in a fantasy world. In your fantasy world, games are reality. I responded to this thread to answer my good friend Hossfly. And you went tripping over the edge once again.

Ah, play the golden boy, arrogance card once again. It gets people killed in combat.

More people get killed by armchair warriors who believe the results of their "war games".

 

[HenryBHough]

From what I'm hearing from pilots the F-35 IS a great plane to fly when it's not grounded or restricted in some way. Rare occasions but really great.....at times......

 

[westwall]

From what I'm hearing from pilots the F-35 IS a great plane to fly when it's not grounded or restricted in some way. Rare occasions but really great.....at times......

The F-35 is a fantastic airplane. It's just not worth what they are having to pay for them.

 

[Hossfly]

Time for a commercial break.





Helicopter pilot training. G-suit not required.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

This "Desk Jockey" was involved in the Wiesbauten (sp) War Games for the Soviet Air Force team. We reduced Nato to USAF A-10 that couldn't cross the channel and what was left of the Carrier Birds not lost in the first 3 days of the fight....

This is why I don't respond to your delusional threads. You are bat shit crazy. You live in a fantasy world. In your fantasy world, games are reality. I responded to this thread to answer my good friend Hossfly. And you went tripping over the edge once again.

Ah, play the golden boy, arrogance card once again. It gets people killed in combat.

More people get killed by armchair warriors who believe the results of their "war games".

I happen to know that the arrogance I see in here, it gets OTHERS killed. It is dangerous to everyone around "Mr. Hero". But since you and him have probably not been around those heroes you won't understand. Most heroes don't.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

From what I'm hearing from pilots the F-35 IS a great plane to fly when it's not grounded or restricted in some way. Rare occasions but really great.....at times......

The F-35 is a fantastic airplane. It's just not worth what they are having to pay for them.

The F-35A comes in under the F-15 and is about equal to a brand new F-16. For 40 years, both of these have been head and shoulders above anything else as a team. Today, they are no more than equal. The US had enjoyed being the best and we need to continue being the best.

 

[DrainBamage]

From what I'm hearing from pilots the F-35 IS a great plane to fly when it's not grounded or restricted in some way. Rare occasions but really great.....at times......

It's availability rate is similar to most other fighter jets, and is already much better than F-18.


F-35 by the Numbers

F-35 program manager Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan said the jet is doing well, logging availability of about 56 percent, mission capable rates of 66 percent, and mission effectiveness rates of 79-80 percent. “Maturity is getting better,” he said. “We are above the growth curves” predicted, he said, asserting that a mission capable (MC) rate of 60 percent is “pretty good” for a jet still in development. USAF’s goal at maturity for a jet is an MC rate of 80 percent, but USAF has been turning in MC rates in the 50-60 percent range for mature jets due to reduced readiness funding in recent years


Air Combat Commander Bullish On F-35 IOC

A key factor in Carlisle’s assessment was clearly the recent engagement at Mountain Home Air Force Base, where seven F-35As and 160 personnel from Hill AFB deployed for two weeks in the first half of June. The aircraft flew all 88 planned sorties. In target practice, they dropped 16 GBU-39 bombs and one missed. But that was a problem with the bomb, Carlisle noted, and not with the aircraft. Altogether, 39 of 40 weapons hit their targets for a 97.5 percent hit rate. And the aircraft boasted a “really, really exceptional” 92.3 mission capable rate. “It gives me a lot of confidence when I start thinking about IOC when as a capstone deployment that’s what happens,” Carlisle said.

 

[DrainBamage]

Interesting = from the 2017 Tailhook Symposium pilot says F-35 can exceed mach 1 carrying 6 x larger JDAMs (not sure if those are 1,000 or 2,000) and four AAMs, something an F-18 cannot do. I doubt an F-16 could either with similar combat load capabilities, which would also include a targeting pod, an ECM pod, and external fuel.

 

[DrainBamage]

Even if the specified capabilities are delivered for the Air Force version in fiscal 2018, the three models of the F-35 won’t be declared to have full combat capability until they undergo vigorous operational exercises. Those won’t begin until August 2018 at the earliest and then will last as long as a year. That would be a year later than planned. Lockheed’s F-35 Deals Barred Until Air Force Vouches for Fixes
DO nothing air force still all show, no punch til 2019.....

Well as has been demonstrated at least a dozen times now just about everything you spout about the F-35 program ends up proven wrong. Block 3F being delivered to F-35A and F-35B this month, full combat capabilities including the gun, AIM-9X, and SDB for USAF. They only thing still being fleshed out is the MDF, which will be an easily installed software-only update.

So much for 2019.

 

[Bleipriester]

Israel not satisfied with free F-35 Lame Ducks

Israel doubts the capability of the F-35.

"US trials of the F-35 alone found nearly three hundred critical issues with the fighter that until resolved made it non-airworthy."

Israel begins to doubt the capability of new F-35 fighter jets

 

[DrainBamage]

Good job Bleipriester, you fell for some idiotic propaganda like you always do. The full press release (not the cherry picked one you're drooling over) by Israel is detailed more here: Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys


TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force. “The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan. In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”


I also love the part about F-35 being non-airworthy. 100k flight hours without a crash (unprecedented), IOC declared, utter domination in exercises, active squadrons deployed overseas, and full combat capability being installed this month... what kind of moron would decided that is a plane that isn't airworthy?

 

[Bleipriester]

Good job Bleipriester, you fell for some idiotic propaganda like you always do. The full press release (not the cherry picked one you're drooling over) by Israel is detailed more here: Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys


TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force. “The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan. In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”


I also love the part about F-35 being non-airworthy. 100k flight hours without a crash (unprecedented), IOC declared, utter domination in exercises, active squadrons deployed overseas, and full combat capability being installed this month... what kind of moron would decided that is a plane that isn't airworthy?

You need to read the article before you determine whether it is propaganda or not. Apparently, everything but approved sources is propaganda.

If the F-35 is that fantastic why does the Department of Defense think it may never be combat ready?

F-35 pilot disputes leaked DoD memo that claims the F-35 may never be combat ready

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Israel not satisfied with free F-35 Lame Ducks

Israel doubts the capability of the F-35.

"US trials of the F-35 alone found nearly three hundred critical issues with the fighter that until resolved made it non-airworthy."

Israel begins to doubt the capability of new F-35 fighter jets

Noeice that it says, "They said", "Someone said" and more. No direct quotes. If you had done your homework you would have seen that this is pretty much a Syrian supported site that tries to cover up any and all things the Syrian Government does or does not do. This is strictly a propaganda post that has little to do with fact.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Good job Bleipriester, you fell for some idiotic propaganda like you always do. The full press release (not the cherry picked one you're drooling over) by Israel is detailed more here: Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys


TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force. “The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan. In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”


I also love the part about F-35 being non-airworthy. 100k flight hours without a crash (unprecedented), IOC declared, utter domination in exercises, active squadrons deployed overseas, and full combat capability being installed this month... what kind of moron would decided that is a plane that isn't airworthy?

You need to read the article before you determine whether it is propaganda or not. Apparently, everything but approved sources is propaganda.

If the F-35 is that fantastic why does the Department of Defense think it may never be combat ready?

F-35 pilot disputes leaked DoD memo that claims the F-35 may never be combat ready

I read the article. It's crap. But reading another of your "LEt's sink the Porgram" cites, 3i is an interim modification where there are 15 unresolved problems that are all addressed in the 3F and 4 mods either scheduled or being done right now.

Evenw ith thos4e 15 problems not addressed, it's still one bad MF and head and shoulders above everything else for ground attack and second to only to the F-22 for air to air. You can't change that, now can you. Fighter Jocks love the bird and wouldn't trade it for any other bird but each and every one of them must be in error, right?

 

[Bleipriester]

Israel not satisfied with free F-35 Lame Ducks

Israel doubts the capability of the F-35.

"US trials of the F-35 alone found nearly three hundred critical issues with the fighter that until resolved made it non-airworthy."

Israel begins to doubt the capability of new F-35 fighter jets

Noeice that it says, "They said", "Someone said" and more. No direct quotes. If you had done your homework you would have seen that this is pretty much a Syrian supported site that tries to cover up any and all things the Syrian Government does or does not do. This is strictly a propaganda post that has little to do with fact.

You are being confused. This source is apparently the best source for ME military happenings.

 

[Bleipriester]

Good job Bleipriester, you fell for some idiotic propaganda like you always do. The full press release (not the cherry picked one you're drooling over) by Israel is detailed more here: Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys


TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force. “The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan. In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”


I also love the part about F-35 being non-airworthy. 100k flight hours without a crash (unprecedented), IOC declared, utter domination in exercises, active squadrons deployed overseas, and full combat capability being installed this month... what kind of moron would decided that is a plane that isn't airworthy?

You need to read the article before you determine whether it is propaganda or not. Apparently, everything but approved sources is propaganda.

If the F-35 is that fantastic why does the Department of Defense think it may never be combat ready?

F-35 pilot disputes leaked DoD memo that claims the F-35 may never be combat ready

I read the article. It's crap. But reading another of your "LEt's sink the Porgram" cites, 3i is an interim modification where there are 15 unresolved problems that are all addressed in the 3F and 4 mods either scheduled or being done right now.

Evenw ith thos4e 15 problems not addressed, it's still one bad MF and head and shoulders above everything else for ground attack and second to only to the F-22 for air to air. You can't change that, now can you. Fighter Jocks love the bird and wouldn't trade it for any other bird but each and every one of them must be in error, right?

It´s the opinion of the DoD. I think the DoD is not happy with that flying cost factor. All existing planes perform better in their roles at lower costs. The A-10 is the most low cost plane that still performs well. Even if the F-35 will be combat ready one day, it´s a big failure.

 

[DrainBamage]

You need to read the article before you determine whether it is propaganda or not. Apparently, everything but approved sources is propaganda.

I read your source, and posted the entire set of information that your source cherry picked from while intentionally leaving out details so they could stamp on a misleading headline and confuse low-information readers like you. That is propaganda.

When we have all the information we see that Israel wasn't doubting the F-35 like you claim in your post, it is recommending an evaluation of whether the plan to purchase additional fighter jets is wise versus other options such as drones or artillery.

If the F-35 is that fantastic why does the Department of Defense think it may never be combat ready?

Your posted that it wasn't air-worthy because of development version of the plane had deficiencies, which was not the case. Clearly it is air worthy, since anyone can see them flying thousands of hours in the plane.

Regarding deficiencies, it was an "if" scenario, where if things aren't fixed it may never be combat ready. Yet here we are about to see 3F released where shortcomings (like the gun) are indeed operational and tested.

The plane is air-worthy, it takes an moron of epic proportions to claim otherwise.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Good job Bleipriester, you fell for some idiotic propaganda like you always do. The full press release (not the cherry picked one you're drooling over) by Israel is detailed more here: Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys


TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force. “The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan. In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”


I also love the part about F-35 being non-airworthy. 100k flight hours without a crash (unprecedented), IOC declared, utter domination in exercises, active squadrons deployed overseas, and full combat capability being installed this month... what kind of moron would decided that is a plane that isn't airworthy?

You need to read the article before you determine whether it is propaganda or not. Apparently, everything but approved sources is propaganda.

If the F-35 is that fantastic why does the Department of Defense think it may never be combat ready?

F-35 pilot disputes leaked DoD memo that claims the F-35 may never be combat ready

I read the article. It's crap. But reading another of your "LEt's sink the Porgram" cites, 3i is an interim modification where there are 15 unresolved problems that are all addressed in the 3F and 4 mods either scheduled or being done right now.

Evenw ith thos4e 15 problems not addressed, it's still one bad MF and head and shoulders above everything else for ground attack and second to only to the F-22 for air to air. You can't change that, now can you. Fighter Jocks love the bird and wouldn't trade it for any other bird but each and every one of them must be in error, right?

It´s the opinion of the DoD. I think the DoD is not happy with that flying cost factor. All existing planes perform better in their roles at lower costs. The A-10 is the most low cost plane that still performs well. Even if the F-35 will be combat ready one day, it´s a big failure.

What has a better operating cost? The F-16 and the A-10. That's it. What has a better tonnage operating cost than the F-35A? Just the F-16 and not by a large margin. Last year, the F-35A has gotten to just above the F-16 in operating costs. I have already posted the link and graphics to back that up. Where are YOUR links and where do they say that you are correct. The only ones show either a political slant or some idiot that hasn't sat in an F-35As seat EVER. We have shown links from the pilots that rave on how great the bird is even with it's problems. Of course, almost all the other birds only wished they had those problems.

 

[DrainBamage]

It´s the opinion of the DoD. I think the DoD is not happy with that flying cost factor.

The DoD is a big organization, and you are confusing the opinion of Gilmore with the entire entity. The pilots and people close to the program might have other opinions.

Either way the passing of time has already proven the opinion you're leaning on as false. F-35 has been turning in dominant performances and is getting full combat config this month.

All existing planes perform better in their roles at lower costs. The A-10 is the most low cost plane that still performs well. Even if the F-35 will be combat ready one day, it´s a big failure.

This is just asinine.

If F-15 performs it's role as a fighter better why are they on the receiving end of high kill rations via F-35? You aren't making much sense.

F-16 is a better fighter/bomber? F-35 has longer legs, better sensors, can fly stealthy, etc. they aren't even close. What exactly does the F-16 do better than F-35? An F-16 matching capabilities of F-35 would need external tanks, ECM pod, targeting

AV-8B is a better attack plane? A subsonic short range jet with a much smaller payload, far inferior SA, and inability to function as an air superiority fighter is better than the F-35?

F-18 is better? F-35C has longer range, can perform missions requiring stealth configuration, has a bigger payload in non-stealth configuration, doesn't need targeting pod, ECM pod, external fuel to match capabilities, etc. there isn't a single thing F-18 does better.