F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[SteadyMercury]

That is a good point, and Osprey had all the delays, maintenance issues, big cost increases, questions about it's usefulness... plus it was fucking killing marines. Now the Marines and spec ops forces absolutely love the V-22 and it has been a workhorse.

For a single engine plane in with a VTOL variant that relies on a lot of software to fly F-35 has been remarkably free of serious mishaps (said engine catching fire aside) and it has a lot more flight hours than many people realize.

 

[Manonthestreet]

The argument that the F-35 Lightning II is “too big to cancel” is not a good enough reason to keep it going.

The F-35 Lightning II, otherwise known as the Joint Strike Fighter, has a lot of critics and a lot of supporters. To cut through the debate currently being waged on the aircraft it is important to point out four facts about the situation the Department of Defense finds itself in: The F-35 is behind schedule and over-budget; it isn’t delivering the capabilities the military needs; the world is vastly different from the one in which the F-35 was envisioned; and fourth and most importantly, the DoD has cancelled, or terminated early, massive weapons programs in the past for similar reasons. Why The Defense Department Needs To Cancel The F-35 Program Task Purpose

 

[SteadyMercury]

Agreed, nothing is too big to cancel.

So regarding the F-35, what is the IR signature vs. other aircraft? You did criticize it for the IR signature but I've asked five times now and you've ignored it, so I',m guessing you were just talking out of your ass and have no idea, which is pretty common among the rabid F-35 critics. They can repeat headlines but don't really know much so kind of stumble when asked to back anything up.

Does that about sum it up, or do you really have a measure of the F-35 IR signature?

Fifth time asking.

 

[HenryBHough]

And the joy keeps on coming!

Genuinely Bad News About the F-35 and the A-10 Chickenhawk No. 17 - The Atlantic

"Then on Monday came the Defense-Aerospace.com story, which included the F-35 portion of the report (it is detailed and acronym-dense, but you can read it here) and highlighted something much more damaging than ongoing bugs. Namely, efforts by the F-35 program team to rig the results of their operational tests. The Defense-Aerospace.com report said (emphasis added):"


"Recent improvements in F-35 reliability figures are due to changes in the way failures are counted and processed, but do not reflect any actual improvement, according to the latest report by the Pentagon’s Director Operational Test & Evaluation...."

"Three different types of data “massaging” are identified in the report: moving failures from one category to another, less important one; ignoring repetitive failures, thus inflating numbers of failure-free hours; and improper scoring of reliability. In all these instances, data reporting and processing rules were changed during the year for no other reason than to paint a more favorable picture."


As we have seen in this thread defending the A-10 over the overstuffed turkey doesn't just irritate the spendthrift establishment - it seriously pisses them off!

General Praising the A-10 to Lawmakers is Treason DoD Buzz

"A top U.S. Air Force general warned officers that praising the A-10 attack plane to lawmakers amounts to “treason,” according to a news report."


"Maj. Gen. James Post, vice commander of Air Combat Command, was quoted as saying, “If anyone accuses me of saying this, I will deny it … anyone who is passing information to Congress about A-10 capabilities is committing treason,” in a report published Thursday on The Arizona Daily Independent."

Meanwhile the A-10 keeps on doing what the F-35 will likely never be able to do:

A-10s Fly Combat Missions Over Syria War Is Boring Medium

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-14 was the result of a cancellation.....forget which one was axed

 

[SteadyMercury]

F-14 was the result of a cancellation.....forget which one was axed

6th time asking... you criticized the IR signature of the F-35, how does it compare to other fighters? Surely you know since you took it as a point of criticism.

Or maybe you just talk out of your ass without really knowing anything?

 

[Manonthestreet]

and yet you provide nothing to counter...or show the statement is false. I explained as did the links why its sig is higher.......

 

[Manonthestreet]

Flat panel technologies revolutionized cockpits during the 1990s and were the basis for an epochal shift from electromechanical and cathode-ray tube flight instruments to the avionics-grade sunlight-readable, reliable, active matrix liquid crystal displays (AMLCDs) that now dominate crew station design. Large-area AMLCDs have enabled the realization, in the F-35 cockpit, of the combat advantage demonstrated in the 1988-1992 AFRL ATD entitled Panoramic Cockpit Controls and Displays (PCCADS). PCCADS demonstrated that a large area, integrated main instrument panel display and a digital day/night vision/cueing system would increase combat effectiveness by 45 percent.

Current displays have limitations that have been accepted to affordably achieve threshold levels of pilot-vehicle interfaces. Technology obsolescence problems and improved performance opportunities require new innovations. SBIR Air Force - F-35 Display Improvement
Isnt that wonderful panels are alrdy obsolete......

 

[Manonthestreet]

And wont be operating from remote airfields ..... How To Supply Power And Air For The F-35 AviationPros.com
The F-35 JSF is a significantly different aircraft compared to legacy fighters, such as the F-18 and F-16, it’s designed to replace:
The F-35 needs 270v DC ground power, not 400 Hz.
It also needs high-pressure cold dry air supplied to it for ground operations.
The F-35 uses 270v DC power. This power supply is more advanced and different in almost every way from 400 Hz power we are used to.

Like 28v DC, it is more difficult to have long cable runs from the power supply to the aircraft. In other words, central 270v DC systems or putting this power supply far away from the aircraft is not possible.

The F-35 is also a very smart aircraft. If the quality of the 270v DC provided from the converter, or the 28v DC E&F safety power circuit is not the perfect voltage, amperage or harmonics at the aircraft plug, the aircraft will not accept the power and will not turn on when the ground crew hits the external power switch. Nobody likes it when that happens.

Due to required, shortened 270v DC cable lengths, the power converter will most often be located in the hangar.

 

[SteadyMercury]

and yet you provide nothing to counter...or show the statement is false. I explained as did the links why its sig is higher.......

How can I counter when you can't provide any data?

It is kind of funny if you think about it:

1. You make a claim about the F-35's IR signature
2. I ask repeatedly what is it's signature or how does it compare to other planes, which you ignore
3. Now you want me to disprove your initial claim, that you never backed up in the first place

You haven't a clue what the F-35's IR signature is or how it compares to other planes do you? I sure don't, but I'm not the one disparaging said IR signature.

Blow hard much?

 

[HenryBHough]

Don't you have to actually fly an airplane to check for an IR signature?

 

[SteadyMercury]

In fact, F-35s IR stealth can be summed up in one word: nonexistant.

Again, this is where we are in contention.

How does the F-35's IR signature compare to other modern aircraft? Surely to make claims about it you have hard information about how it measures up to F-18, F-16, F-15E, etc.

So we are still waiting on BowHardontheStreet, who has now taken the hilarious position that I should be the one to counter his claim, that he can't even back up in the first place because he just regurgitated some text and has no idea about any of it.

So again, show you aren't a total blow hard and let the forum know how the F-35's IR signature measures up to other aircraft. Or ignore/dodge some more and demonstrate further that you know nothing more than talking out of your ass.

 

[Manonthestreet]

In the air combat role, Hostage says that it takes eight F-35s to do what two F-22s can handle. He has said further of the F-35: “Because it can’t turn and run away, it’s got to have support from other F-35s. So I’m going to need eight F-35s to go after a target that I might only need two Raptors to go after. But the F-35s can be equally or more effective against that site than the Raptor can because of the synergistic effects of the platform.” He has also been quoted as saying that an F-35 pilot who engages in a dogfight has made a mistake. Further from General Hostage,” If I do not keep that F-22 fleet viable, the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant. The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform. It needs the F-22. Because I got such a pitifully tiny fleet (of F-22s), I’ve got to ensure I will have every single one of those F-22s as capable as it possibly can be.” It therefore follows that Australia, not having F-22s, has an irrelevant air combat capability in the F-35. Our Gold-Plated Hangar Queen Quadrant Online

 

[HenryBHough]

But none of that matters.

America has a defense policy of strength through weakness and apology these days and all the world loves us.

Don't they?

 

[Manonthestreet]

yes thats why our friends are abandoning us.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Helmet runs 400grand and also doesnt work

 

[SteadyMercury]

Hah hah nothing like purposely selective slicing parts of quotes to prove you rely on dishonesty.

Your quote:

"He has also been quoted as saying that an F-35 pilot who engages in a dogfight has made a mistake."

Full quote, from Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35 No Growlers Needed When War Starts Breaking Defense - Defense industry news analysis and commentary

"But Hostage says, as do other senior Air Force and Marine officers, that an F-35 pilot who engages in a dogfight has probably made a mistake or has already broken through those IADS lanes and is facing a second wave of enemy aircraft. The F-35, he says, has “at least” the maneuverability and thrust and weight of the F-16. The F-35 is to the F-22 as the F-16 is to the F-15. The latter aircraft are the kings of air to air combat. The F-35 and the F-16 are the mainstay of the air fleet, designed for both air-to-air and air-to-ground attacks. "

Oops heh? Same article Hostage claims the F-35 has a much smaller radar cross section than F-22... since we're taking what he says as gospel you agree with that too right? F-35 is at least as maneuverable as an F-16 and with a lower RCS than F-22?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Talk about stupid, second wave ....first wave will splash its ass because of its altitude disadvantage. Also you only have enough missiles for one wave. Irrelevant is as Irrelavant does. Low slow and not stealthy......sounds like a plan.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Now the source you just used (General Hostage) to take quotes out of context criticizing the F-35 is stupid?

Then why did you bother quoting from him if you consider his opinions stupid?

That is why I'm pretty skeptical of the dedicated F-35 bashers like you, quite the disingenuous tactic of selectively taking things out of context and alternating between supporting and criticizing the same source depending on whether they fit your agenda.

So let's be clear, is General Hostage a good source for info about the F-35 or not? You can't have it both ways.

 

[SteadyMercury]

because of its altitude disadvantage

What altitude disadvantage?