F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[HenryBHough]

Someone seems unable to differentiate argument from ridicule.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Someone can't acknowledge when they have no argument they are left with empty ridicule. Sign of a weak argument and an even weaker IQ.

 

[HenryBHough]

Why argue with the ridiculous? Ridiculously overstuffed turkey, unsuitable even for roasting for a dinner but durable enough to stand proudly on those concrete plinths in public parks for decades.

Highest (they'll regularly fly) and best use!


True monuments to mission-creep gone mad.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I do appreciate you arriving to the thread.

The point I made earlier about this group of people with a strong anti F-35 position yet who seem bizarrely incapable of discussing anything specific about the plane, just regurgitating cliches? Here comes HenryBHough galloping into the thread to prove my point and provide a perfect example, shouting his tired slogans and doing everything he can to avoid touching a concrete argument, every single post just hot air and no specifics.

What is to argue its a turkey woohoo the pinnacle of HenryBHough's contributions to a thread about the capabilities of the F-35.

Thanks for all the detailed data and brilliant points you've brought to the table Gomer.

 

[SteadyMercury]

True monuments to mission-creep gone mad.

HenryBHough, a true monument to someone attempting to contribute to a subject they are clearly clueless about.

Go Henry! We love your hollow cranium!

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-35

F-35 cannot supercruise according to either definition used
Supercruise Defense Issues

 

[Manonthestreet]

Sound sig is higher than current fourth gen

 

[HenryBHough]

And the true believers thank you for your billions of tax dollars! And to think the turkey could have been equally overstuffed with just a few bags of bread crumbs!

 

[SteadyMercury]

F-35 cannot supercruise according to either definition used
Supercruise Defense Issues

According to some poster on a forum who is guessing at performance number while saying Lockheed Martin is lying. How would that guy possibly know what he's claiming. If you go by the common definition of sustained supersonic speed without afterburner then F-35 has it. Either way point stands you can't dismiss it as a 5th gen fighter based on cherry picked definitions on something with no quantifiable data.

Sound sig is higher than current fourth gen

You mean the takeoff noise thing? Who cares, how does that impact a mission.

Here: Noise from F-35B Comparable to F A-18s New Study Says Military.com

An executive summary made public Oct. 31, ahead of the release of the full report, says the F-35B's noise level is comparable to or lower than the F/A-18s currently flying at Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort. The summary, released by the military's office for the Joint Strike Fighter, indicated that the F-35B is slightly louder on takeoff, but significantly quieter on all approaches.

 

[SteadyMercury]

And the true believers thank you for your billions of tax dollars! And to think the turkey could have been equally overstuffed with just a few bags of bread crumbs!

Again proving my point about the brainless types in F-35 discussions, let's see if you can rack up 100 posts in this thread proving you know nothing about the plane by contributing nothing but hot air cliches.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Nobody is guessing its simple math that leads to inescapable conclusions of DOG.....or DEAD............. I provid links you provide the guess. F-35 I am Fighter Hear Me Roar
Since then, F-35 noise levels that are reportedly up to 4x louder than early-model F-16s have made noise a basing issue beyond the United States. Recent developments involve Australia.
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Decibels and Noise Levels


Maj. Davis’ sticking point is a side effect of the F-35’s 40,000 pound thrust single engine, which currently enjoys a large lead as the most powerful fighter engine on the market. That’s helpful for the fighter, but not so helpful when it comes to audible noise; the F-35 is reportedly close to 2 times louder than the F-15 fighter, and close to 4 times louder than an F-16. This issue has forced a delay in critical approvals for Eglin AFB, and has also become an international concern.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Nobody is guessing

Actually no, your last post about supercruise it was some guy on an internet forum who has never flown an F-35 and was pulling shit out of his ass while saying Lockheed Martin's numbers were wrong.

Maj. Davis’ sticking point is a side effect of the F-35’s 40,000 pound thrust single engine, which currently enjoys a large lead as the most powerful fighter engine on the market. That’s helpful for the fighter, but not so helpful when it comes to audible noise; the F-35 is reportedly close to 2 times louder than the F-15 fighter, and close to 4 times louder than an F-16. This issue has forced a delay in critical approvals for Eglin AFB, and has also become an international concern.

I just posted a study from Nov 2014 that proved it was quieter than the F-18. Who to believe? I don't know, you get stuff all over the map:

In 2009, testing reportedly revealed the F-35 to be: "only about as noisy as an F-16 fitted with a Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-200 engine...quieter than the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet."[296] An acoustics study by Lockheed Martin and the Air Force found F-35's noise levels to be comparable to the F-22 and F/A-18E/F.[297] A USAF environmental impact study found that replacing F-16s with F-35s at Tucson International Airport would subject more than 21 times as many residents to extreme noise levels.[298] The USN will need to redesign hearing protection for sailors to protect against the "thundering 152 decibels" of the F-35.[299]

Either way this would impact people living near an Air Force base because they are talking about takeoff noise with higher throttle, that is why the noise thing comes up in environmental impact studies.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Your problem is you cant be honest......... no they are talking constant noise.....take a look at the tail of f-35 and compare to other stealth.....does not match.....you have 4th gen tail nozzle with zero sound mitigation......really not that hard......if you were honest

 

[SteadyMercury]

Your problem is you cant be honest......... no they are talking constant noise.....take a look at the tail of f-35 and compare to other stealth.....does not match.....you have 4th gen tail nozzle with zero sound mitigation......really not that hard......if you were honest

What on earth are you talking about honest? Because it is inconvenient to your crusade that there is evidence counter to what you choose to believe?

Are you an engineer who has worked on stealthy aircraft? What sort of credentials do you have where you look at pictures of a plane and your vast experience in engineering stealth technology allows you to discount all the design work, computer modelling, and more reputable sources and decide you know better and everyone else is being dishonest.

B-2 has no tail, I assume your master eyeball saw the F-22 and decided it wasn't stealthy either since didn't match?

Hilarious, armchair expertise level = 99.

 

[Manonthestreet]

In fact, F-35s IR stealth can be summed up in one word: nonexistant. It is the heaviest single-engined fighter in the world, and its single engine produces amount of thrust that equals that of many twin-engined fighters while having no IR signature reduction whatsoever (IR signature reduction measures were deleted to save weight). Its shape means large amount of drag, which also increases IR signature, as well as providing larger target for an IRST. Drag means that F-35 has to use afterburner to fly supersonically, increasing IR signature even further due to the large exhaust plume. Powerful radar also helps increase IR signature due to the cooling requirements. How stealthy is the F-35 Defense Issues As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Targeting system is obsolete alrdy Is The F-35 s Targeting System Really 10 Years Behind Current Systems

 

[HenryBHough]

Australia seems to having a "Think Again" moment as they look more deeply into how America's Overstuffed Turkey shapes up against the Communist opposition:

White House apologizes for not sending top officials to Paris unity march World news The Guardian

"ADVANCES in Chinese and Russian stealth technology and a gun that can’t shoot have once again put Australia’s next generation fighter in the firing line"

"The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is no stranger to controversy. It is, after all, the most expensive defence program in history. But the clamour of criticism is growing as new details emerge of its chief competitors — the Chinese J-20 and Russian T-50 stealth fighters."

"China, which topped the United States as the world’s largest economy in 2014, is pushing ahead with an ambitious military expansion program. And it’s throwing money at several new stealth designs to ensure their success."

"The result: A looming shift in the balance of air power that threatens to eliminate the air superiority lead the West has held since World War II."

"An increasingly cash-strapped United States may be finding itself in a similar position to that of the United Kingdom before World War II — a waning world power in deep denial of its fading might."

"All its air-defence eggs, along with those of most of its allies — are now in the one F-35 Lightning II basket. It’s too big to fail. There are no fallback options."



Gee, THANK YOU, Mr. "president"!

 

[Billo_Really]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

This is a worthless piece of shit fighter that is a major waste of taxpayer money. The A-10's are low maintenance, durable and doing fine. There is no need to replace them.

 

[mudwhistle]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

Same thing happened when they first introduced the F-14 Tomcat. The engines were too powerful for the body of the aircraft and they started crashing. So they put F-4 Phantom engines in them and the problem was solved.

 

[SteadyMercury]

In fact, F-35s IR stealth can be summed up in one word: nonexistant.

Okay, then tell me what measurement you are using and how the F-35's IR signature compares to other fighters? I know it uses several technologies to reduce IR signature but honestly have no idea how it compares, do you?

I
How stealthy is the F-35 Defense Issues As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hey cool you found the blog of the same guy from your last post, some guy who has dedicated his life to attacking the F-35. Like I said this plane draws a lot of strongly political motivations, and suckers like you who believe everything they read get sucked right into it.

Analyzing radar cross section, in m2: http://www.scienpress.com/Upload/JCM/Vol 4_1_9.pdf

F-15 = 10-25
F-16 = 5
F-18 = 1-3
F-22 = 0.0001 – 0.0005
F-35 = 0.0015 – 0.005
B-2 = 0.1 or less
F-117 = 0.025 or less

Clearly the F-35 is a low observable aircraft, their conclusion:

The results from Table 2 confirm the argument that the average RCS increases
as the frequency gets lower. However, they also confirm that the F-35 RCS is really
low, at least as far as the fuselage is concerned. Especially in the X-band, the
calculated (average) RCS is even lower than the one revealed by USAF and the
decrease in detection range with respect to the “standard target” is dramatic. For
example, the APG68 of the F-16 is expected to “see” the F-35 at a distance of
roughly 5 NM. The expected decrease of the detection range for the F-35 with respect
to conventional aircraft depicted in Table 3 indicates that the F-35 will be a real
danger, and not only as a first strike weapon.