Dem Budget: 2 TRILLION in NEW TAX HIKES, Deep Cuts at Pentagon

[bripat9643]

So if you put money in a money market account, and the money market buys T-bills/bonds/notes with it,

you no longer have any money????

No, I have a T-bill that the government can only pay off by taking money from future tax payers.

However, that's not a valid analogy. The transaction you describe involves two parties: you and the government. The "bonds" in the SS trust fund involve only one party: the government. The government "sold" the bond, and the government purchased the bond. Try issuing a bond to yourself and then tell us the net proceeds from the transaction.

It's truly pathetic that this has to be explained to you. It explains how Obama got elected.

 

[bripat9643]

That's not social security's fault. The US government borrows from the trust fund, not to mention everywhere else,

Social Security is the government, nimrod. It wouldn't matter if the government didn't "borrow" from the trust fund. There's no money in it, just worthless I.O.U.s

because the taxpayer isn't being asked to pay as you go. So yes, the taxpayer eventually has to pay Social Security back -

So what's the point of the bonds? Either way, the taxpayer pays in the end.

unless you believe the US government has no obligation to make good on its obligations.

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

 

[bripat9643]

Pretend SSA has $2 trillion worth of good T-Notes in the "lock box".
Now they have to cash in $100 billion to pay next month's benefits.
Where does the $100 billion come from?
Pretend SSA doesn't have anything in the "lock box".
Now they need $100 billion to pay next month's benefits.
Where does the $100 billion come from?

It's pathetic how stupid these nimrods are, isn't it?

 

[Toro]

unless you believe the US government has no obligation to make good on its obligations.

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

What do you mean?

 

[Chris]

More taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes... that is the liberals answer to EVERYTHING! Damn these fucking MORONS to HELL.



Senate Democrats Draft Debt-Reduction Plan


By Lori Montgomery, Published: July 8

Senate Democrats have drafted a sweeping debt-reduction plan that would slice $4 trillion from projected borrowing over the next decade without touching the expensive health and retirement programs targeted by President Obama.

Instead, Senate Democrats are proposing to stabilize borrowing through sharp cuts at the Pentagon and other government agencies, as well as $2 trillion in new taxes, primarily on families earning more than $1 million year, according to a copy of the plan obtained by The Washington Post.

Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan - The Washington Post

Sounds like a great plan.

 

[bripat9643]

unless you believe the US government has no obligation to make good on its obligations.

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

What do you mean?

Someone once tried to sue the government for changing the Social Security benefits it had agree to pay. the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government had no legal obligation to pay Social Security benefits.

 

[bripat9643]

Sounds like a great plan.

I'll be you think adding a hole in your head is a great medical procedure.

 

[Chris]

Sounds like a great plan.

I'll be you think adding a hole in your head is a great medical procedure.

I'll be you think?

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to raise trillions in taxes and make trillions in cuts.

It's simple mathematics.

 

[Toro]

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

What do you mean?

Someone once tried to sue the government for changing the Social Security benefits it had agree to pay. the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government had no legal obligation to pay Social Security benefits.

Could you link that? That doesn't sound right. But maybe it is, I don't know.

My guess - and its just a guess - is that the government has a legal obligation to pay, as long as social security exists under the law, but that the government has the right to change the terms of social security. But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

That's one reason why I don't get too bent out of shape over the tens of trillions of unfunded liabilities through Medicare and SS. Those liabilities can be erased with a stroke of a pen, and I suspect they will.

 

[Chris]

What do you mean?

Someone once tried to sue the government for changing the Social Security benefits it had agree to pay. the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government had no legal obligation to pay Social Security benefits.

Could you link that? That doesn't sound right. But maybe it is, I don't know.

My guess - and its just a guess - is that the government has a legal obligation to pay, as long as social security exists under the law, but that the government has the right to change the terms of social security. But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

That's one reason why I don't get too bent out of shape over the tens of trillions of unfunded liabilities through Medicare and SS. Those liabilities can be erased with a stroke of a pen, and I suspect they will.

No need.

Americans are getting fatter and fatter.

Many of them won't live to collect.

 

[candycorn]

Wrong... taxes are high enough already, and have been for years. More taxes will only crush the delicate state of the economy further into the toilet.

What part about that are you liberals incapable of understanding?

Okay we preserved the Bush tax cuts for the foreseeable future...shouldn't the economy be booming about right now then?

This is where the Conservative argument falls flat. The tax cuts that happened while we're fighting 2 wars (unprecedented in history worldwide) should have, according to the Conservatives, set off runaway growth prosperity and cute puppies for all citizens.

Obama preserved them...don't lie and say he didn't.

What happened?

 

[candycorn]

Like it

EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all

You must have been reading something else. There's nothing "shared" about this plan. He's not advocating make deep cuts into o-care, ss, or any social programs. The dems entire focus is taxation. Tell me when we start cutting ALL social programs, depts, agencies, AND the military by 30 percent and I'll start paying attention.

Do we need to spend nearly 1/2 of all defense dollars spent by all nations on earth? We do now...outspending nearly all other countries combined.

Do we need that?

Do we need a F22 Raptor...to replace the F18 Hornet, the F18 Super Hornet, and the F15. The F15 is currently superior to any other aircraft in terms of armaments, speed, maneuverability, and of course our pilots?

Do we really need a Virginia Class sub? To replace the Seawolf Class and the Los Angeles Class which is FAR superior to anything any other Navy has built?

Of course not. I would love to hear the rationale for spending nearly 1/2 of all defense dollars spent worldwide.

The time for cuts is long past due. I can' speak to the taxes (I haven't read up on it)--but the cuts are much more than necessary; they are the right thing to do.

 

[candycorn]

Sounds like a great plan.

I'll be you think adding a hole in your head is a great medical procedure.

If the procedure had been done on you, it would explain a great deal. Man, chill out for once.

 

[Charles_Main]

Wrong... taxes are high enough already, and have been for years. More taxes will only crush the delicate state of the economy further into the toilet.

What part about that are you liberals incapable of understanding?

The part where you said taxes are high enough and have been for years. That doesn't make sense since taxes are at their lowest levels in 60 years.

And yet they are still to high. When are you idiots going to learn. no matter how much money we give these ass fucks in DC, of either party. They are going to spend it all and then some. Stop feeding the Fucking Monster.

This Budget is never going to pass, they know it. They just want to use it to say look, the Republicans are blocking us again. It's not our fault. We tried to do something.

Yeah something that will Leave Our Economy making today look like the Good ole Days, and our Military and Other Defense related Agencies, Will be drastically cut leaving us Vulnerable, and weak.

Hooray.

Liberals are Geniuses.

 

[Big Fitz]

Sounds like a great plan.

I'll be you think adding a hole in your head is a great medical procedure.

I'll be you think?

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to raise trillions in taxes and make trillions in cuts.

It's simple mathematics.

Or cut trillions in overspending. Here's a crazy idea.

Roll the budget amount back to that of 2000, freeze it there and say everyone has to make do with that amount of money for the next dozen years because it's going to be frozen barring natural disaster or attacks on US territory. (as in Mexican troops took over the Gasdan Purchase.)

Also, end every new bureaucracy created since 2000.

Do that, leave the taxes as is and you would have the ability to pay back 1.9 trillion plus a year. Once done, you end the freeze.

 

[Chris]

I'll be you think adding a hole in your head is a great medical procedure.

I'll be you think?

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to raise trillions in taxes and make trillions in cuts.

It's simple mathematics.

Or cut trillions in overspending. Here's a crazy idea.

Roll the budget amount back to that of 2000, freeze it there and say everyone has to make do with that amount of money for the next dozen years because it's going to be frozen barring natural disaster or attacks on US territory. (as in Mexican troops took over the Gasdan Purchase.)

Also, end every new bureaucracy created since 2000.

Most of the federal budget is Social Security, Medicare, and defense.

Who are you going to cut, the old, the sick, or the military?

 

[Big Fitz]

I'll be you think?

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to raise trillions in taxes and make trillions in cuts.

It's simple mathematics.

Or cut trillions in overspending. Here's a crazy idea.

Roll the budget amount back to that of 2000, freeze it there and say everyone has to make do with that amount of money for the next dozen years because it's going to be frozen barring natural disaster or attacks on US territory. (as in Mexican troops took over the Gasdan Purchase.)

Also, end every new bureaucracy created since 2000.

Most of the federal budget is Social Security, Medicare, and defense.

Who are you going to cut, the old, the sick, or the military?

yes to all three.

Shut down foreign bases and end our involvement in foreign defense contracts.
Privatize Social Security a la the Ryan Plan
End government medical care completely and return it to the free market.

Works for me. Savings, dries up entitlements, stymies wasteful big government an breaks the enabling of failed global policy.

Where's the downside again?

 

[Charles_Main]

Do we need to spend nearly 1/2 of all defense dollars spent by all nations on earth? We do now...outspending nearly all other countries combined.

While I am sure there is some waste, and redundancies that we can and should Cut. I have to say Yes we do need to continue to out spend the world. I know you libs feel uncomfortable living in the worlds most powerful Nation ever seen, but I rather like it. Everything we have here in this great nation today, we owe in Part to the fact that we have been the worlds Super Power. The world in turn Owes the last 60 Plus Years of unprecedentedly Peaceful Times on earth to that fact as well. Maybe you should brush up on Pre World War II History My Friend. Oh we have little wars sure, but before the USA became the worlds Super Power. World history is a long line of Brutal Conflict.

Do we need a F22 Raptor...to replace the F18 Hornet, the F18 Super Hornet, and the F15. The F15 is currently superior to any other aircraft in terms of armaments, speed, maneuverability, and of course our pilots?

You clearly do not even know much about the planes you are judging.

First, The f22 Could and would never replace the super Hornet. The Super Hornet is a carrier Born Plane, the F22 is not.

Second, We do not need a replacement for the F18 Hornet, What the hell do you think the Super hornet is.

Third, You are incorrect about the F15. It is superior to almost all aircraft out there. However Russia has recently Developed a new Plane, that most experts Believe will out class the F15 in armaments, speed, maneuverability. Not to mention that most of our F15 Fleet is aging, and can not last forever.

About the only thing you got right is our Pilots, At least currently Out Class the rest of the world. Even most of our allies. (not because Americans are just better, It's Because our Air Force has the Best training, and best Aircraft, and A vast amount of actual Combat experience to draw from.

The F22 is, or was, to assure for Decades to come that nobody can challenge us in the air.

You guys are also missing the fact that yes, the F22 costs more than our Older Planes, but it is also much more capable. The Air force can do more with less with that plane. One F22 can do the Job that 2 or 3 Planes used to do. It really is that Advanced. Also the Super Cruise Technology alone means much less fuel used.

Like I said at the start, You clearly do not know Shit about the planes you are talking about. Yet seem to think you are an Expert on whether the F22 is needed.

Do we really need a Virginia Class sub? To replace the Seawolf Class and the Los Angeles Class which is FAR superior to anything any other Navy has built?

Rinse and Repeat. Our Los Angeles Class Sub will not remain Superior for ever. You do realize that even though we out spend them. The rest of the world is still Developing New weapons. Still trying to catch up with us. What Obama is suggesting is that we stop making sure we stay ahead.

As with the F22 issue, The same is true here as well. Our Existing Subs will not last forever. They do have a shelf life.

The time for cuts is long past due. I can' speak to the taxes (I haven't read up on it)--but the cuts are much more than necessary; they are the right thing to do.

Well there you have it folks, If I would have read this one closer the first time, I would not even have responded to the rest of his Drivel. He just admitted, He Knows jack shit about what exactly is being cut yet is on board with it 100%. He about Fighter Aircraft and yet assures us the F22 isn't needed.

Like I said I believe there is savings to be found cutting in Defense. Cuts that can be made that will not assure the end of the Air, Naval, and General Military Superiority of the USA. Which is how these cuts, Which I have read up on, Will assure IMO.

The Funniest thing about this to me. Is as a Constitutionalists/Libertarian. It is my belief that The Defense of this nation is one of the Few Legitimate Functions of the Federal Government. Yet the Fucks Tards want to cut Defense so they can Prop up their Unsustainable, Failing Massive inefficient Federal Social Welfare Programs. That as all Constitutionalists/Libertarians Know should not even really be a function of our Federal Government.

Social Welfare is best kept at more local Levels. the States and below. For many reasons, Key among them being Massive Federal Bureaucracies are inefficient, and wrought with waste, and more importantly Oversight, and accountability are better achieve on a smaller scale.

You liberals and your Love for the Fed. So out of touch with History.

Defend us, Negotiate Treaties, You know the things the Founders wanted the Fed to do. Do that, the each state handle the rest in their own way, and one their own terms. For Christ sake.

When will you learn. DC is nothing but a Pit of Money sucking Assholes that only care about the Next Election. They will spend 150% of Every penny we give them, and waste 60 cents of every dollar on inefficiency, and out right theft. As they reward their Backers at the expense, and on the backs, of all of us.

Holy shit Fools Open your god damn Eyes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Pretend SSA has $2 trillion worth of good T-Notes in the "lock box".
Now they have to cash in $100 billion to pay next month's benefits.
Where does the $100 billion come from?
Pretend SSA doesn't have anything in the "lock box".
Now they need $100 billion to pay next month's benefits.
Where does the $100 billion come from?

It's pathetic how stupid these nimrods are, isn't it?

Another public school failure.

 

[Charles_Main]

Most of the federal budget is Social Security, Medicare, and defense.

Who are you going to cut, the old, the sick, or the military?

What good will Social Welfare Programs be, when the world is embroiled in WWIII Because the over whelming might, and Power projection Capability of the USA is gone? Seriously.

SS, And medicare Dwarf Military spending, and Are in their Current Form Unsustainable. The amount we spend on them is going to grow massively in the next 20 years. They Both MUST be Reformed.

I am Open to reasonable Cuts to Defense as well, but not with out Cuts across the board. I am totally Opposed to the new Taxes. Both because I feel they will only hurt this terrible Economy even more, and because I firmly believe no matter how much we raise taxes, and revenue, DC will simply come up with new ways in which to waste it on programs that are inefficient, and promise to Balloon out of control Cost wise.

Stop Feeding the Monster. It's Like when Farmers raise a pig for a show. You feed it and it keeps getting bigger, but as it gets bigger it wants to eat more and more and more.

STOP THE MADNESS