Dem Budget: 2 TRILLION in NEW TAX HIKES, Deep Cuts at Pentagon

[Big Fitz]

Yes, SS, Medicrap and other social spending dwarfs defense. But in my opinion there are lots of areas that can be cut in Defense too.

The era of Pax Americana needs to end. It is not our business to become entangled in defending foreign ingrate nations who need to start shouldering their load and defend themselves. People want the US out of their business, this is the price they must pay. There is no more need for global projection of power inside 24 hours until further notice.

The largest cuts must come from social spending, I do agree, and we would be better off ending every federal bureaucracy created after 1951 with the DOT (that actually proved somewhat useful). 75% of what the federal government does now should be turned over to the states including things like the war on drugs, education and more.

But no one area is exempt. I'd like to know what our exit strategy from WW2 Germany and Japan is.

 

[NYcarbineer]

unless you believe the US government has no obligation to make good on its obligations.

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

What do you mean?

Good question. Good luck getting the troll to answer.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is not Trust Fund.

The government has already spent that money and stuffed it with IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers. In addition, the "trust fund" is underfunded (along with Medicare) by over $30T on a net present value basis. That means that future benefits will be paid by significantly increasing payroll taxes on future workers.

It's a PONZI SCHEME.

That's not social security's fault. The US government borrows from the trust fund, not to mention everywhere else,

because the taxpayer isn't being asked to pay as you go. So yes, the taxpayer eventually has to pay Social Security back -

unless you believe the US government has no obligation to make good on its obligations.

You don't get it. The US didn't borrow from the trust fund, the trust fund WAS the borrowing.

SS ran a surplus every year X dollars. it used that to buy X dollars in treasuries. Those $$ given to the government FOR the treasuries were then used as general money for the budget.

Now that SS is running in the red, there is no more $$ going into treasuries, and now SS has to take money back from its prinicpal its been adding all this time.

Get it?

SS BUYS bonds from the treasury. That, by definition is lending to the treasury. YOU don't get it. I suggest you research buying and selling bonds.

 

[Jackson]

I'll be you think adding a hole in your head is a great medical procedure.

I'll be you think?

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to raise trillions in taxes and make trillions in cuts.

It's simple mathematics.

Or cut trillions in overspending. Here's a crazy idea.

Roll the budget amount back to that of 2000, freeze it there and say everyone has to make do with that amount of money for the next dozen years because it's going to be frozen barring natural disaster or attacks on US territory. (as in Mexican troops took over the Gasdan Purchase.)

Also, end every new bureaucracy created since 2000.

Do that, leave the taxes as is and you would have the ability to pay back 1.9 trillion plus a year. Once done, you end the freeze.

This is reasonable, but I would add that foreign aid should be curtailed, endowment to the arts, and funds to religious entities stopped. These funds as well as fund recouped from tax fraud should be turned over to Social Security and Medicare to make it self sufficient.

 

[Cuyo]

Like it

EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all

You must have been reading something else. There's nothing "shared" about this plan. He's not advocating make deep cuts into o-care, ss, or any social programs. The dems entire focus is taxation. Tell me when we start cutting ALL social programs, depts, agencies, AND the military by 30 percent and I'll start paying attention.

SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.

Does Social Security need to be addressed for the long term? Yes, but SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.

This ain't rocket science - let's not try to make it rocket science, eh?

But.... But.... but....

SOCIAL PROGRAMS!

Don't ruin their fun with facts!

 

[editec]

You must have been reading something else. There's nothing "shared" about this plan. He's not advocating make deep cuts into o-care, ss, or any social programs. The dems entire focus is taxation. Tell me when we start cutting ALL social programs, depts, agencies, AND the military by 30 percent and I'll start paying attention.

SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.

Does Social Security need to be addressed for the long term? Yes, but SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.

This ain't rocket science - let's not try to make it rocket science, eh?

Which can't fund itself. Therefore, its broke and needs to be cut.

Broke?

It has $2.5 TRILLION dollars. Lad.

 

[pete]

So we will ask to borrow money so Russia can take us to the space station and when things get bad we can ask China to protect its interest

 

[Chris]

Senate Dems have a great plan.

It worked for Clinton. He left Bush with a budget surplus.

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to cut trillions in spending and raise trillions in taxes.

It's simple mathematics.

 

[daveman]

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

What do you mean?

Good question. Good luck getting the troll to answer.

He answered.

 

[bripat9643]

It has no legal obligation to pay Social Security.

What do you mean?

Good question. Good luck getting the troll to answer.

I've already answered it twice, dipstick.

 

[bripat9643]

SS BUYS bonds from the treasury. That, by definition is lending to the treasury. YOU don't get it. I suggest you research buying and selling bonds.

SS and the Treasury are both arms of the federal government. So when SS buys bonds from the Treasury, the government is loaning money to itself. No real money has changed hands. All that has occurred is that a worthless I.O.U. is filed away in a cabinet somewhere.

 

[bripat9643]

Broke?

It has $2.5 TRILLION dollars. Lad.

God, another idiot/sucker who needs to be educated!

 

[bripat9643]

Senate Dems have a great plan.

It worked for Clinton. He left Bush with a budget surplus.

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to cut trillions in spending and raise trillions in taxes.

It's simple mathematics.

How do the Senate Dems plan to have the cold war end again so we can draw down the military by 1.5 million personnel?

 

[Toro]

Someone once tried to sue the government for changing the Social Security benefits it had agree to pay. the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government had no legal obligation to pay Social Security benefits.

Could you link that? That doesn't sound right. But maybe it is, I don't know.

My guess - and its just a guess - is that the government has a legal obligation to pay, as long as social security exists under the law, but that the government has the right to change the terms of social security. But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

That's one reason why I don't get too bent out of shape over the tens of trillions of unfunded liabilities through Medicare and SS. Those liabilities can be erased with a stroke of a pen, and I suspect they will.

No need.

Americans are getting fatter and fatter.

Many of them won't live to collect.

Americans consume 600 calories more a day than they did in 1980. However, they are also living longer.

 

[Toro]

SS BUYS bonds from the treasury. That, by definition is lending to the treasury. YOU don't get it. I suggest you research buying and selling bonds.

SS and the Treasury are both arms of the federal government. So when SS buys bonds from the Treasury, the government is loaning money to itself. No real money has changed hands. All that has occurred is that a worthless I.O.U. is filed away in a cabinet somewhere.

SS doesn't actually buy any Treasury bonds. It debits the accounts of the SS trusts as if they bought the bonds. If it sounds confusing, that's because it is.

 

[washamericom]

SS BUYS bonds from the treasury. That, by definition is lending to the treasury. YOU don't get it. I suggest you research buying and selling bonds.

SS and the Treasury are both arms of the federal government. So when SS buys bonds from the Treasury, the government is loaning money to itself. No real money has changed hands. All that has occurred is that a worthless I.O.U. is filed away in a cabinet somewhere.

SS doesn't actually buy any Treasury bonds. It debits the accounts of the SS trusts as if they bought the bonds. If it sounds confusing, that's because it is.

hey harper, i had a dream that you had your own talkshow, how fuckin cool is that.... anything like that in the works ? are you (look like) a middle aged slightly heavy white guy who likes hockey ?? this could be a stunning premonition...

 

[NYcarbineer]

SS BUYS bonds from the treasury. That, by definition is lending to the treasury. YOU don't get it. I suggest you research buying and selling bonds.

SS and the Treasury are both arms of the federal government. So when SS buys bonds from the Treasury, the government is loaning money to itself. No real money has changed hands. All that has occurred is that a worthless I.O.U. is filed away in a cabinet somewhere.

SS doesn't actually buy any Treasury bonds. It debits the accounts of the SS trusts as if they bought the bonds. If it sounds confusing, that's because it is.

I don't agree. If the money is loaned out of SS to the general fund, then SS has bought treasuries,

they loan the money, they collect interest, the full faith and credit of the US is behind paying the money back.

Whatever the differences between that and, say, you or me buying a treasury bond are, are not differences that make a difference,

and if a difference doesn't make any difference, it's not a difference. I think I heard that last night

 

[Chris]

Senate Dems have a great plan.

It worked for Clinton. He left Bush with a budget surplus.

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to cut trillions in spending and raise trillions in taxes.

It's simple mathematics.

How do the Senate Dems plan to have the cold war end again so we can draw down the military by 1.5 million personnel?

Another good idea.

It's time for Europe and Japan to pay for their own defense.

 

[NYcarbineer]

SS BUYS bonds from the treasury. That, by definition is lending to the treasury. YOU don't get it. I suggest you research buying and selling bonds.

SS and the Treasury are both arms of the federal government. So when SS buys bonds from the Treasury, the government is loaning money to itself. No real money has changed hands. All that has occurred is that a worthless I.O.U. is filed away in a cabinet somewhere.

No. Social security has a distinct and separate revenue source, the payroll tax. The payroll tax revenue belongs to SS, not to 'the government'. 'The government' collects revenue from other sources to do its business, which includes, in part, meeting the obligations to SS for the bonds that SS has bought, including, naturally, interest and principal.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Senate Dems have a great plan.

It worked for Clinton. He left Bush with a budget surplus.

To pay off a $13 trillion dollar debt, you have to cut trillions in spending and raise trillions in taxes.

It's simple mathematics.

How do the Senate Dems plan to have the cold war end again so we can draw down the military by 1.5 million personnel?

Who are we are defending Europe against if the Cold War is over?

btw...

...we raised taxes to pay for the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Vietnam war (and probably Korea too, but I don't know that one). We stopped raising taxes to pay for wars after 1980.

When did the massive, ongoing deficit/debt problem begin?

Hmmm...just after 1980.

The Cold War post-1980, two Iraq wars, the Afghan war, all NOT paid for with tax increases,

all accompanied by major deficit increases.

Surprising how through all the blather, many seemingly complex problems can be reduced to simple mathematics.