David and Bathsheba's baby- was God's punishment just?

[koshergrl]

That's what you believe. It isn't the truth, nor is it what Christians believe.

And God doesn't seek the death of infants. God has an individual plan for every person on earth, and that plan is for that person's benefit. Sometimes it includes death but from God's point of view, heaven is the reward we reap..and at this point, nobody gets there without dying first. So when a child dies he joins God, and that is joy for the child and for God.

 

[JoeB131]

That's what you believe. It isn't the truth, nor is it what Christians believe.

And God doesn't seek the death of infants. God has an individual plan for every person on earth, and that plan is for that person's benefit. Sometimes it includes death but from God's point of view, heaven is the reward we reap..and at this point, nobody gets there without dying first. So when a child dies he joins God, and that is joy for the child and for God.

God doesn't seek the death of children? Really>

(Disclaimer, I actually believe the following stories are mean spirited myths, but for argument sake, let's go with it.)

So when he intentionally flooded the world, he wasn't seeking the death of every infant in the world who drowned?

When he killed all the first born of Egypt, he wasn't seeking their death?

When he sent the bears to maul the children who mocked Elijah's bald head, he wasn't seeking their death.

God kills a whole bunch of children in the bible.

B ut back to my point, if God has a plan for everyone, then really, doesn't make them all victims? How can he send people to hell if they were just following "the plan"? Doesn't that make him cruel?

(Ah, yes, the Predestination Paradox... trips up fundies every time.)

 

[Youwerecreated]

so dead babies are a good thing?

I trust God and his decisions.

 

[Youwerecreated]

How is that fair to the baby?

Well God judges the heart. He took the first born of the Egyptians as well because of disobedience. David and bethshebas act was disobedience.

He judged the baby's heart and killed the baby?

Or

He judged the parent's hearts and this makes infanticide ok?

Well there are several different views on this question I am not sure of the correct view.

I stop short of speaking for God.

 

[Youwerecreated]

so dead babies are a good thing?

Who's killed more babies?
God or Planned Parenthood?

The abortion issue is always a good deflection for God's crimes in the Bible.

If you believe a fetus is a baby at all times during the pregnancy, and heaven is better than earth, abortions are a good thing right?

What if the baby is born and becomes some heathen infidel non-believer like the vast majority of babies and ends up in hell? That'd be infinitely worse right?

The law giver does not break his own laws no matter how you rationalize it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

How the heck is that a threat?

Maybe uncalled for, a threat?

Don't give the cuckoo sign to anyone I have had enough exchanges with you to think you are cuckoo,but I try to refrain from insulting you.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I've told you 100 times, but i don't mind tell you for a 101st time.

I'm not pro-abortion.

I'm not a there's too many people person.

I know I'm not the only one, you've lied about tons of people having those positions who don't as a way to try to get someone to agree with your emotion-based diatribe. But please don't change that about you, I always enjoy the threads you're in

And I (and the rest of the world) have told you...you can't support legalized abortion and not be pro-abortion.

Unless you change the definition of the words, which I've no doubt you would do if you could.

As for the rest of your weird and senseless rant, ironically the exact example of what you're whining about...what can I say except .

No the world hasn't told me that, the many voices in your head don't count as the world.

Have a great day.

Do you have voices in your head since you have opinions about life that can't be verified ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have no answer for this. Other then maybe he wanted to humble them both for what they did. Losing a child is very harsh on anyone. He also preserved the last annointed King of Israel.

It humbled David and made him a better King.

But it say's God will judge the ignorant, meaning the ones who never had a chance to know him.

I believe all children who have passed early in life will be given that chance to know him in the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

A couple of problems with this theory.

First, it didn't make David a "better King". It probably made him a worse one.

A quick rundown of 2 Samel after this event-

His son Amnon rapes his daughter Tamar. He does nothing.

Absolom murders Amnon. He does nothing.

Absolom overthrows David and the country devolves into Civil War. It eventually ends when Joab (one of the few bible characters I like) kills Absolom before David can pardon him again.

He let's Saul's Family be dismembered.

Some giants get killed.

David sings a song of victory and then directs Solomon to whack everyone who opposed him like Michael Coreleon at the end of the Godfather.

Actually, it made David MORE of a jerk.

Solomon had his problems but the last good King over Israel was David.

 

[Youwerecreated]

God can't be righteous or just if he can abide with sin and refuses to punish it. He provided his own son to die for our sins, so that all we have to do is believe, and we will reap the reward of heaven.

It's not such a huge request, and he paid a huge price to help us get to heaven. But ultimately, we will be accountable for the choices we make. And to despise the sacrifice of Christ, and to spurn God after he is revealed to us, are two sins that won't be forgiven. Heaven won't be heaven if the devil and his supporters live there.

Again, the Baby didn't do anything wrong.

Punish David, absolutely. Bathsheba, maybe give her some wiggle room, because it wasn't like she could refuse a command from her king. (Although she turns out to be pretty manipulative later in the bible). So maybe punish her..

But the Baby. It didn't do anything wrong.

Do you have the ability to judge hearts ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

God gave His only Begotten Son to pay the price of sin and because of Him, that child who died, will rise from the dead.

Is that just?

no but it s a tale told by men

what god seeks the death of new borns for the sins of the father

Do you believe that abortions are ok for women who are raped I do. well someone was put in a position to be killed so they could have this relationship and sin is sin.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Murder by abortion is NOT the same thing....God didn't plan that abortion, the mother did!

But an abortion insures the fetus/baby will go to heaven right? If the baby is born and like the overwhelming majority of babies grows into something besides a christian as an adult it'll go to hell, correct?

Yes you're right...the baby WILL go to heaven. But you can say goodbye to the mother for murdering her child. UNLESS, she happens to repent and ask for forgiveness (truthfully, because God knows her heart). If she doesn't...goodbye!!

If the baby is born and turns into a sinner and is told about God but rejects it, yes, he/she will end up NOT going to heaven. That's their choice then.

Exactly, so the abortion sends the baby to heaven, then all she has to do is ask for forgiveness and she also ends up in heaven.

So shouldn't the pro-life movement focus more on after the abortion and saving the mother's soul when the fetus/baby is already in heaven? You aren't doing the baby/fetus any favors when it's already guranteed to be in heaven and having the baby be born means it will likely end up in hell where, according to the Bible, most people are sent.

Believe me none of the above is what I think, but if I thought all non-believers deserved to burn in hell for eternity and the after-life were so much more important than our current life, all that would make perfect sense.

And I'm glad our resident fundies Cecille and YWC have joined up with their teammate kosher, makes the discussion so much funner. You guys need to teach YWC a thing or two about 6th grade insults though, I never see him use them! What gives?

 

[koshergrl]

Good grief not this again.

But thank you for verifying my statement about you, Drock. You are pro-abortion, and you do think that killing babies somehow protects them. Or at least that's what you SAY. I think what you BELIEVE is that it's a good thing to eliminate the babies of the poor and uneducated.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But an abortion insures the fetus/baby will go to heaven right? If the baby is born and like the overwhelming majority of babies grows into something besides a christian as an adult it'll go to hell, correct?

I do so love fools who think, "If God can do it, it's okay for me to do it". Hey, Brain Trust. God's going to take you to the Great Beyond someday. Does that make it okay if I send you there early? Use your head for something besides keeping your ears apart, Idiot.

If everything happens for a reason, than a baby being aborted was in Gods plan.

Or are you saying God isn't actually all powerful and all knowing?

Knowing that someone is going to do something stupid and evil isn't the same as approving of it, shitforbrains. It amazes me that you have to have that explained to you. It amazes me that you can find the ON button on your computer without help.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Good grief not this again.

But thank you for verifying my statement about you, Drock. You are pro-abortion, and you do think that killing babies somehow protects them. Or at least that's what you SAY. I think what you BELIEVE is that it's a good thing to eliminate the babies of the poor and uneducated.

No, that's not what I think, that's what the Bible says and what you fundamentalists think.

I don't think all fetuses go to heaven, because I don't believe in heaven. Those are your beliefs and i'm simply restating them.

You're the one who's promoting the opportunity for babies to grow and live in hell for eternity. Shouldn't YOU (i say again YOU not me) view abortion as a good thing because the babies immediately get to go to a superior place (heaven) than Earth?

Why would you prefer them be put on a worse place and then potentially end up facing eternal damnation? Why is that better?

 

[koshergrl]

I love Cecilie.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I love Cecilie.

Me too.

 

[koshergrl]

Good grief not this again.

But thank you for verifying my statement about you, Drock. You are pro-abortion, and you do think that killing babies somehow protects them. Or at least that's what you SAY. I think what you BELIEVE is that it's a good thing to eliminate the babies of the poor and uneducated.

No, that's not what I think, that's what the Bible says and what you fundamentalists think.

I don't think all fetuses go to heaven, because I don't believe in heaven. Those are your beliefs and i'm simply restating them.

You're the one who's promoting the opportunity for babies to grow and live in hell for eternity. Shouldn't YOU (i say again YOU not me) view abortion as a good thing because the babies immediately get to go to a superior place (heaven) than Earth?

Why would you prefer them be put on a worse place and then potentially end up facing eternal damnation? Why is that better?

You know what? You're simply a liar.

I thought perhaps you were ignorant and therefore reachable. But you contradict yourself on a post by post basis. You're just a common liar.

It's too bad. What a waste. When you put that much effort into something, don't you think you should be putting it into something positive, instead of campaigning for the death of children and hacking away at the faith of others? A faith that treasures morality, kindness, and individual liberty?

What that must do to a person's soul I can only imagine. I know that people who spend a lot of time campaigning to kill children have got a screw loose though. And that's the very least thing wrong with them.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Good grief not this again.

But thank you for verifying my statement about you, Drock. You are pro-abortion, and you do think that killing babies somehow protects them. Or at least that's what you SAY. I think what you BELIEVE is that it's a good thing to eliminate the babies of the poor and uneducated.

No, that's not what I think, that's what the Bible says and what you fundamentalists think.

I don't think all fetuses go to heaven, because I don't believe in heaven. Those are your beliefs and i'm simply restating them.

You're the one who's promoting the opportunity for babies to grow and live in hell for eternity. Shouldn't YOU (i say again YOU not me) view abortion as a good thing because the babies immediately get to go to a superior place (heaven) than Earth?

Why would you prefer them be put on a worse place and then potentially end up facing eternal damnation? Why is that better?

You know what? You're simply a liar.

I thought perhaps you were ignorant and therefore reachable. But you contradict yourself on a post by post basis. You're just a common liar.

It's too bad. What a waste. When you put that much effort into something, don't you think you should be putting it into something positive, instead of campaigning for the death of children and hacking away at the faith of others? A faith that treasures morality, kindness, and individual liberty?

What that must do to a person's soul I can only imagine. I know that people who spend a lot of time campaigning to kill children have got a screw loose though. And that's the very least thing wrong with them.

I can't tell if you're a liar or just this stupid, I know it's a combination of the 2 but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and blame it mostly on stupidity despite your ever-growing list of lies.

I never promoted abortion, never have never will, I'm asking why don't YOU promote abortion since the fetuses will go to a better place? Why would you rather they be born and risk going to hell? According to your "holy" book all non-believers are going to hell, since the vast majority of humans are non-believers and thus hellbound, why would you want to take such a risk that a baby be born and likely spend eternity in hell?

So funny how insecure and defensive fundamentalists get when you simply ask them to apply common sense to their indoctrinations lol.

 

[koshergrl]

Not only are you a liar, but you also seize every valid criticism of you and immediately turn it around.

Me: "You're a liar and here's why...you say you're not pro abortion but you post in every thread about abortion, to support it."

You: "Am not, you're a liar. I'm not pro-abortion, I just think we should kill more babies."

Me: "You can't support abortion and be anti-abortion. It doesn't make sense."

You: "You aren't pro-life because I'm pro-life."

Me: "That's crazy."

You: "You're crazy."

Honest. Do you take meds?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Not only are you a liar, but you also seize every valid criticism of you and immediately turn it around.

Me: "You're a liar and here's why...you say you're not pro abortion but you post in every thread about abortion, to support it."

You: "Am not, you're a liar. I'm not pro-abortion, I just think we should kill more babies."

Me: "You can't support abortion and be anti-abortion. It doesn't make sense."

You: "You aren't pro-life because I'm pro-life."

Me: "That's crazy."

You: "You're crazy."

Honest. Do you take meds?

Have you ever had a debate with anyone on this board where you didn't take it from intellectual to emotional and make everything a 6th grade name-calling scratch fight?

Keep up the good work schnookums , I'm just trying to help you realize how inconsistent all your views are.

"I love babies, if they die before birth they go to heaven. If they're born and become non-believers like the overwhelming majority they'll burn in hell for eternity. I want them to have that chance to burn in hell forever and ever because I love them so much."

Adorable you are .