David and Bathsheba's baby- was God's punishment just?

But an abortion insures the fetus/baby will go to heaven right? If the baby is born and like the overwhelming majority of babies grows into something besides a christian as an adult it'll go to hell, correct?

Yes you're right...the baby WILL go to heaven. But you can say goodbye to the mother for murdering her child. UNLESS, she happens to repent and ask for forgiveness (truthfully, because God knows her heart). If she doesn't...goodbye!!

If the baby is born and turns into a sinner and is told about God but rejects it, yes, he/she will end up NOT going to heaven. That's their choice then.

Exactly, so the abortion sends the baby to heaven, then all she has to do is ask for forgiveness and she also ends up in heaven.

So shouldn't the pro-life movement focus more on after the abortion and saving the mother's soul when the fetus/baby is already in heaven? You aren't doing the baby/fetus any favors when it's already guranteed to be in heaven and having the baby be born means it will likely end up in hell where, according to the Bible, most people are sent.

Believe me none of the above is what I think, but if I thought all non-believers deserved to burn in hell for eternity and the after-life were so much more important than our current life, all that would make perfect sense.

And I'm glad our resident fundies Cecille and YWC have joined up with their teammate kosher, makes the discussion so much funner. You guys need to teach YWC a thing or two about 6th grade insults though, I never see him use them! What gives?

Even though God has plans for ALL of us, it doesn't mean it always ends up the way it's meant to. We still have a choice. God speaks to us throughout our lives, it's just that some people don't realize it. You know that little voice (that conscience thing) that nags at you when you just aren't sure about something? I'm sure a woman that is going to have an abortion has that little voice speaking to her...but is she listening?

How many times have you thought about doing something and you're just not quite sure if it's the right thing to do. Alot of people make a decision to do the wrong thing....God isn't going to stop them because he gave them the right to make their own decisions. He knows if that baby is aborted, He will take care of it. Now the woman that had it done? She may feel guilt, especially later in life, and she could very well turn to God for help. That's what He wants!!! If she doesn't, then she pays for her mistakes.

The pro-life movement is there for her, but she has to want it! The doors to the Church is always open for her, but she has to go there herself, nobody can drag her there. And God is always there for her....but she has to want to seek Him. As anyone that sins, it is up to them to accept God and ask for forgiveness. He is not going to force anyone to worship Him.
 
Not only are you a liar, but you also seize every valid criticism of you and immediately turn it around.

Me: "You're a liar and here's why...you say you're not pro abortion but you post in every thread about abortion, to support it."

You: "Am not, you're a liar. I'm not pro-abortion, I just think we should kill more babies."

Me: "You can't support abortion and be anti-abortion. It doesn't make sense."

You: "You aren't pro-life because I'm pro-life."

Me: "That's crazy."

You: "You're crazy."

Honest. Do you take meds?

Have you ever had a debate with anyone on this board where you didn't take it from intellectual to emotional and make everything a 6th grade name-calling scratch fight?

Keep up the good work schnookums :), I'm just trying to help you realize how inconsistent all your views are.

"I love babies, if they die before birth they go to heaven. If they're born and become non-believers like the overwhelming majority they'll burn in hell for eternity. I want them to have that chance to burn in hell forever and ever because I love them so much."

Adorable you are :).

And again!
I point out that you contradict yourself consistently..and point it out when you do...and you immediately come back with "you're inconsistent". WTH! It's plagarism!
 
Yes you're right...the baby WILL go to heaven. But you can say goodbye to the mother for murdering her child. UNLESS, she happens to repent and ask for forgiveness (truthfully, because God knows her heart). If she doesn't...goodbye!!

If the baby is born and turns into a sinner and is told about God but rejects it, yes, he/she will end up NOT going to heaven. That's their choice then.

Exactly, so the abortion sends the baby to heaven, then all she has to do is ask for forgiveness and she also ends up in heaven.

So shouldn't the pro-life movement focus more on after the abortion and saving the mother's soul when the fetus/baby is already in heaven? You aren't doing the baby/fetus any favors when it's already guranteed to be in heaven and having the baby be born means it will likely end up in hell where, according to the Bible, most people are sent.

Believe me none of the above is what I think, but if I thought all non-believers deserved to burn in hell for eternity and the after-life were so much more important than our current life, all that would make perfect sense.

And I'm glad our resident fundies Cecille and YWC have joined up with their teammate kosher, makes the discussion so much funner. You guys need to teach YWC a thing or two about 6th grade insults though, I never see him use them! What gives?

Even though God has plans for ALL of us, it doesn't mean it always ends up the way it's meant to. We still have a choice. God speaks to us throughout our lives, it's just that some people don't realize it. You know that little voice (that conscience thing) that nags at you when you just aren't sure about something? I'm sure a woman that is going to have an abortion has that little voice speaking to her...but is she listening?

How many times have you thought about doing something and you're just not quite sure if it's the right thing to do. Alot of people make a decision to do the wrong thing....God isn't going to stop them because he gave them the right to make their own decisions. He knows if that baby is aborted, He will take care of it. Now the woman that had it done? She may feel guilt, especially later in life, and she could very well turn to God for help. That's what He wants!!! If she doesn't, then she pays for her mistakes.

The pro-life movement is there for her, but she has to want it! The doors to the Church is always open for her, but she has to go there herself, nobody can drag her there. And God is always there for her....but she has to want to seek Him. As anyone that sins, it is up to them to accept God and ask for forgiveness. He is not going to force anyone to worship Him.

Not saying you aren't getting what I'm saying, but let me try to simplify it.

If the fetus/baby isn't born, it's going to heaven for certain, the mother may or may not go heaven.

If the fetus/baby is born, there's the potential for both to go to hell, and most humans do end up in hell because they are non-believers.

Is all the above correct in your mind?
 
Not only are you a liar, but you also seize every valid criticism of you and immediately turn it around.

Me: "You're a liar and here's why...you say you're not pro abortion but you post in every thread about abortion, to support it."

You: "Am not, you're a liar. I'm not pro-abortion, I just think we should kill more babies."

Me: "You can't support abortion and be anti-abortion. It doesn't make sense."

You: "You aren't pro-life because I'm pro-life."

Me: "That's crazy."

You: "You're crazy."

Honest. Do you take meds?

Have you ever had a debate with anyone on this board where you didn't take it from intellectual to emotional and make everything a 6th grade name-calling scratch fight?

Keep up the good work schnookums :), I'm just trying to help you realize how inconsistent all your views are.

"I love babies, if they die before birth they go to heaven. If they're born and become non-believers like the overwhelming majority they'll burn in hell for eternity. I want them to have that chance to burn in hell forever and ever because I love them so much."

Adorable you are :).

And again!
I point out that you contradict yourself consistently..and point it out when you do...and you immediately come back with "you're inconsistent". WTH! It's plagarism!

Not that I'm gloating, but who was the first to call the other a liar on this thread?

That would be me calling you a liar, then you called me one, so I think you've got the whole chicken and egg argument wrong babe.
 
Exactly, so the abortion sends the baby to heaven, then all she has to do is ask for forgiveness and she also ends up in heaven.

So shouldn't the pro-life movement focus more on after the abortion and saving the mother's soul when the fetus/baby is already in heaven? You aren't doing the baby/fetus any favors when it's already guranteed to be in heaven and having the baby be born means it will likely end up in hell where, according to the Bible, most people are sent.

Believe me none of the above is what I think, but if I thought all non-believers deserved to burn in hell for eternity and the after-life were so much more important than our current life, all that would make perfect sense.

And I'm glad our resident fundies Cecille and YWC have joined up with their teammate kosher, makes the discussion so much funner. You guys need to teach YWC a thing or two about 6th grade insults though, I never see him use them! What gives?

Even though God has plans for ALL of us, it doesn't mean it always ends up the way it's meant to. We still have a choice. God speaks to us throughout our lives, it's just that some people don't realize it. You know that little voice (that conscience thing) that nags at you when you just aren't sure about something? I'm sure a woman that is going to have an abortion has that little voice speaking to her...but is she listening?

How many times have you thought about doing something and you're just not quite sure if it's the right thing to do. Alot of people make a decision to do the wrong thing....God isn't going to stop them because he gave them the right to make their own decisions. He knows if that baby is aborted, He will take care of it. Now the woman that had it done? She may feel guilt, especially later in life, and she could very well turn to God for help. That's what He wants!!! If she doesn't, then she pays for her mistakes.

The pro-life movement is there for her, but she has to want it! The doors to the Church is always open for her, but she has to go there herself, nobody can drag her there. And God is always there for her....but she has to want to seek Him. As anyone that sins, it is up to them to accept God and ask for forgiveness. He is not going to force anyone to worship Him.

Not saying you aren't getting what I'm saying, but let me try to simplify it.

If the fetus/baby isn't born, it's going to heaven for certain, the mother may or may not go heaven.

If the fetus/baby is born, there's the potential for both to go to hell, and most humans do end up in hell because they are non-believers.

Is all the above correct in your mind?

I get what you're saying, i just didn't really address it.....
I think you probably know the part of of the 10 commandments that states "Thou Shalt not Kill" ? ? ?
Well, that means, that mother SHALL NOT KILL her newborn (or anyone else). If she does, that was her decision, not Gods. If she decides to do this, then God will take care of the baby.

If she doesn't, and the baby grows up to be an unbeliever, then that was his or her CHOICE. The baby didn't have a choice to be aborted or not, so when the mother killed the baby, God took care of it. Once the child is grown, he/she will then have to make their own choices in life, as any adult does.
 
Even though God has plans for ALL of us, it doesn't mean it always ends up the way it's meant to. We still have a choice. God speaks to us throughout our lives, it's just that some people don't realize it. You know that little voice (that conscience thing) that nags at you when you just aren't sure about something? I'm sure a woman that is going to have an abortion has that little voice speaking to her...but is she listening?

How many times have you thought about doing something and you're just not quite sure if it's the right thing to do. Alot of people make a decision to do the wrong thing....God isn't going to stop them because he gave them the right to make their own decisions. He knows if that baby is aborted, He will take care of it. Now the woman that had it done? She may feel guilt, especially later in life, and she could very well turn to God for help. That's what He wants!!! If she doesn't, then she pays for her mistakes.

The pro-life movement is there for her, but she has to want it! The doors to the Church is always open for her, but she has to go there herself, nobody can drag her there. And God is always there for her....but she has to want to seek Him. As anyone that sins, it is up to them to accept God and ask for forgiveness. He is not going to force anyone to worship Him.

Not saying you aren't getting what I'm saying, but let me try to simplify it.

If the fetus/baby isn't born, it's going to heaven for certain, the mother may or may not go heaven.

If the fetus/baby is born, there's the potential for both to go to hell, and most humans do end up in hell because they are non-believers.

Is all the above correct in your mind?

I get what you're saying, i just didn't really address it.....
I think you probably know the part of of the 10 commandments that states "Thou Shalt not Kill" ? ? ?
Well, that means, that mother SHALL NOT KILL her newborn (or anyone else). If she does, that was her decision, not Gods. If she decides to do this, then God will take care of the baby.

If she doesn't, and the baby grows up to be an unbeliever, then that was his or her CHOICE. The baby didn't have a choice to be aborted or not, so when the mother killed the baby, God took care of it. Once the child is grown, he/she will then have to make their own choices in life, as any adult does.

I'm following but even if she breaks a commandment, she can be forgiven and both can end up in heaven. If the fetus/baby is allowed to be born and becomes a non-believer, he/she is hell bound.

Not trying to go on too big of a side tangent but look at all the christian couples and churches who marry them who are responsible for adultery, the couples I'm talking about are remarried couples and the churches who are willing to wed them.

Jesus DIRECTLY states that's committing adultery, but i'm sure the couples and the church still view them as heaven-bound.
 
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If they repent they are. You don't go to hell for being sinful. You go to hell for denying Christ, and for failing to ask forgiveness...and REPENT. You can't just ask for forgiveness, that's only part of it. You also have to repent. Christ forgave..and then admonished people to sin no more.

Did they sin? Of COURSE. Everybody does. But you have to make the effort. And ask forgiveness sincerely when you fail.
 
And who plaigarized who in this thread?

Who was the first to attribute lying to the other person?

You or I?

Thank you

Crap you just did it again!

:eusa_clap::eusa_clap::eusa_clap::eusa_clap::eusa_clap:

You should get a Major Award or something.

I accept your waving of the white flag, I can't say you don't have good timing.

Take care.


Again, a lie. I didn't wave a white flag.

But you still get an award!

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If they repent they are. You don't go to hell for being sinful. You go to hell for denying Christ, and for failing to ask forgiveness...and REPENT. You can't just ask for forgiveness, that's only part of it. You also have to repent. Christ forgave..and then admonished people to sin no more.

Did they sin? Of COURSE. Everybody does. But you have to make the effort. And ask forgiveness sincerely when you fail.

How can one ask for forgiveness if the couple continues to stay remarried and continues to commit adultery at night?

How can the church be forgiven if they keep marrying couples who are divorced and remarrying?
 
Good question.

I'm Southern Baptist. Not many southern Baptists get married x2 in the church; there aren't many preachers who will do it.
 
If they repent they are. You don't go to hell for being sinful. You go to hell for denying Christ, and for failing to ask forgiveness...and REPENT. You can't just ask for forgiveness, that's only part of it. You also have to repent. Christ forgave..and then admonished people to sin no more.

Did they sin? Of COURSE. Everybody does. But you have to make the effort. And ask forgiveness sincerely when you fail.

How can one ask for forgiveness if the couple continues to stay remarried and continues to commit adultery at night?

How can the church be forgiven if they keep marrying couples who are divorced and remarrying?

I found this and it's really quite interesting. I think it answers alot of the questions....

What does the Bible say about divorce and remarriage?

God does not want people to stay in a marriage where one of them have committed adultry, or continues to. He doesn't expect the innocent one to be stuck in a marriage like this, or one that is abusive. According to this writing, He has said what can be done in these circumstances.

For instance, I was married to my 1st husband for 7 years. We had 2 kids, he was in the Air Force. The last 2 years of our marriage was miserable for me as his morals were not quite the same as mine. He continually tried to get me into wife-swapping!!! He would even try to get me into a situation where he thought i couldn't back down. It got so when i knew he had plans for us to go to certain peoples homes for a "party" i would actually get sick, i'd have horrible headaches. If i didn't go with him, he would go by himself.
Do you think God condemned me for leaving him? I really don't. He's the one that will have to answer to God one day. I've now been married to my 2nd husband for 31 years.

Many people divorce for no good reason...they maybe just don't like eachother anymore. I have friends that have been married 4-5 times! They can be forgiven, but they will have to completely turn their lives around and give themselves completely to God, and truthfully as for forgiveness and atone for their sins. Many people won't do that......
 
If they repent they are. You don't go to hell for being sinful. You go to hell for denying Christ, and for failing to ask forgiveness...and REPENT. You can't just ask for forgiveness, that's only part of it. You also have to repent. Christ forgave..and then admonished people to sin no more.

Did they sin? Of COURSE. Everybody does. But you have to make the effort. And ask forgiveness sincerely when you fail.

How can one ask for forgiveness if the couple continues to stay remarried and continues to commit adultery at night?

How can the church be forgiven if they keep marrying couples who are divorced and remarrying?

I found this and it's really quite interesting. I think it answers alot of the questions....

What does the Bible say about divorce and remarriage?

God does not want people to stay in a marriage where one of them have committed adultry, or continues to. He doesn't expect the innocent one to be stuck in a marriage like this, or one that is abusive. According to this writing, He has said what can be done in these circumstances.

For instance, I was married to my 1st husband for 7 years. We had 2 kids, he was in the Air Force. The last 2 years of our marriage was miserable for me as his morals were not quite the same as mine. He continually tried to get me into wife-swapping!!! He would even try to get me into a situation where he thought i couldn't back down. It got so when i knew he had plans for us to go to certain peoples homes for a "party" i would actually get sick, i'd have horrible headaches. If i didn't go with him, he would go by himself.
Do you think God condemned me for leaving him? I really don't. He's the one that will have to answer to God one day. I've now been married to my 2nd husband for 31 years.

Many people divorce for no good reason...they maybe just don't like eachother anymore. I have friends that have been married 4-5 times! They can be forgiven, but they will have to completely turn their lives around and give themselves completely to God, and truthfully as for forgiveness and atone for their sins. Many people won't do that......

Me personally I'm glad you divorced and are a happier person now. And as a reminder I'm a non-believer.

I've heard both sides of the divorce debate and i can see both sides for christians, i just remember the passage were Jesus directly states remarrying is adultery.
 
God can't be righteous or just if he can abide with sin and refuses to punish it. He provided his own son to die for our sins, so that all we have to do is believe, and we will reap the reward of heaven.

It's not such a huge request, and he paid a huge price to help us get to heaven. But ultimately, we will be accountable for the choices we make. And to despise the sacrifice of Christ, and to spurn God after he is revealed to us, are two sins that won't be forgiven. Heaven won't be heaven if the devil and his supporters live there.

Again, the Baby didn't do anything wrong.

Punish David, absolutely. Bathsheba, maybe give her some wiggle room, because it wasn't like she could refuse a command from her king. (Although she turns out to be pretty manipulative later in the bible). So maybe punish her..

But the Baby. It didn't do anything wrong.

Do you have the ability to judge hearts ?

I think so.... I think I am a pretty good judge of character, but I work in a feild where people are blowing smoke up my ass all day.

Still reasonably sure the Baby did nothing wrong.
 
Not only are you a liar, but you also seize every valid criticism of you and immediately turn it around.

Me: "You're a liar and here's why...you say you're not pro abortion but you post in every thread about abortion, to support it."

You: "Am not, you're a liar. I'm not pro-abortion, I just think we should kill more babies."

Me: "You can't support abortion and be anti-abortion. It doesn't make sense."

You: "You aren't pro-life because I'm pro-life."

Me: "That's crazy."

You: "You're crazy."

Honest. Do you take meds?

Have you ever had a debate with anyone on this board where you didn't take it from intellectual to emotional and make everything a 6th grade name-calling scratch fight?

Keep up the good work schnookums :), I'm just trying to help you realize how inconsistent all your views are.

"I love babies, if they die before birth they go to heaven. If they're born and become non-believers like the overwhelming majority they'll burn in hell for eternity. I want them to have that chance to burn in hell forever and ever because I love them so much."

Adorable you are :).

She is correct Doc.

You also keep misrepresenting what Hell is , after you have been shown from the scriptures, That shows you're disengenuious.
 
Again, the Baby didn't do anything wrong.

Punish David, absolutely. Bathsheba, maybe give her some wiggle room, because it wasn't like she could refuse a command from her king. (Although she turns out to be pretty manipulative later in the bible). So maybe punish her..

But the Baby. It didn't do anything wrong.

Do you have the ability to judge hearts ?

I think so.... I think I am a pretty good judge of character, but I work in a feild where people are blowing smoke up my ass all day.

Still reasonably sure the Baby did nothing wrong.

You really think someones appearance can tell you everything about the persons character ? You could not see that nun was just trying to ease your pain,what a perception you have.

To really know someones character wouldn't you have to know this person for a while ?

God knows what a person is and will be before they live that life.
 
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Do you have the ability to judge hearts ?

I think so.... I think I am a pretty good judge of character, but I work in a feild where people are blowing smoke up my ass all day.

Still reasonably sure the Baby did nothing wrong.

You really think someones apperance can tell you everything about the person ?

To really know someones character wouldn't you have to know this person for a while ?

God knows what person is and will be before they live that life.

Well, if none of have choice, how can any of us be held accountable?

Point was, God killed a baby to teach David a lesson about how killing a guy to get his wife was wrong.

Of course, God had no problem with David killing people for worshipping the wrong God, or because he wanted their land, or a lot of other reasons why David went around killing people throughout the bible. But killing Uriah was just wrong, man. So God was going to teach David a lesson by killing a baby. Who didn't do anything.
 

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