Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

[theDoctorisIn]

Capitalism is the economic manifestation of freedom.

So is armed robbery. NEXT!

“Democracy destroys itself because it abuses its right to freedom and equality. Because it teaches its citizens to consider audacity as a right, lawlessness as a freedom, abrasive speech as equality, and anarchy as progress.”

~ the folks who invented democracy

uhhh...depriving one's rights is not a manifestation or a practice of liberty...i hope you were being sarcastic and i just dont get it.

one who advocates for freedom and liberty is not advocating for anarchy. Government is necessary to enforce laws that provide a consequence for an individual depriving another individual of their rights. That, along with maintaining a currency, and protecting the boarders are the only job of the federal government according the founders via the federalist papers. Our current federal government, arguably since Lincoln, and without a doubt after wilson and FDR, is an assault on liberty. I implore you to find the definition of "soft tyranny" and understand that is the type of umbrella in which americans live under. It is mostly fake freedom, as compared to the pure freedom envisioned by the founders and embodied in the constitution when read and understood as written.

Side note: who exactly said your quote? The founders I know abhorred democracy and spoke strongly against it. Advocating instead for a republic.

Another person who claims to "understand" what the founders meant. The Federalist Papers hold no legal status because the founders didn't agree on them - hence the formation of political parties, essentially arguing the same things that we're arguing right now.

 

[loosecannon]

Side note: who exactly said your quote?

Isocrates.

Isocrates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MarcATL]

I have seen what corporations do to people, and what government does to people, and I would side with trusting government before I would ever trust a corporation.

Corporations don't care if people die. Whether it be a Katrina disaster or shutting off the electric power to families in the winter so they die of exposure. They want relaxed regulations so they can murder more people with their products cheaper. They have no use for repairing America, just raping it of its resources. The corporate way has made us a third world country.


Government on the other hand has regulated the corporate enemys, built and maintained America, taken care of its people to keep them safe from the harm of corporations & greed. They are the ones that made it possible for electricity, for sanitzed water sources, dams, freeways, space travel, internet, and support many of these corporations so you can buy almost anything your want from anywhere in the world.

So what is your take & reasoning?

Excellent post...I agree with you.

 

[shintao]

I choose the individual who makes decisions for themselves under the basis of LIBERTY. I choose the individual who takes risks, reaps the rewards, and suffers the failures. I choose the individual that stands for personal responsibility and freedom.

So you took liberty to mean I THE INDIVIDUAL, and not WE THE PEOPLE. You think liberty is free, that WE THE PEOPLE didn't die for your freedoms, or that you lack responsibilitys to your country and humanity. You are selfish, and you are a taker, taking what you don't deserve and declaring liberty unto yourself. Pathetic.

Government that impedes the individual the means to pursue their own ends can go to hell.

Yes, ME ME ME and no one else. You make me sick.

Capitalism is the economic manifestation of freedom. Don't like it? Compete. Can't compete? Shit or get off the pot.

Capitalism is a yoke of slavery on the many for the benefit of the few. You should know, owing trillions of dollars your great grandchildren will be paying for when your sorry ass is dead and gone. Are you going to stiff your kids for your ME ME ME coffin as well?

 

[shintao]

I have seen what corporations do to people, and what government does to people, and I would side with trusting government before I would ever trust a corporation.

Corporations don't care if people die. Whether it be a Katrina disaster or shutting off the electric power to families in the winter so they die of exposure. They want relaxed regulations so they can murder more people with their products cheaper. They have no use for repairing America, just raping it of its resources. The corporate way has made us a third world country.


Government on the other hand has regulated the corporate enemys, built and maintained America, taken care of its people to keep them safe from the harm of corporations & greed. They are the ones that made it possible for electricity, for sanitzed water sources, dams, freeways, space travel, internet, and support many of these corporations so you can buy almost anything your want from anywhere in the world.

So what is your take & reasoning?

Excellent post...I agree with you.

1 out 63 posts ain't bad!

 

[Tom Clancy]

So Shintao, what sort of Economic System do you purpose besides Capitalism? Since you consider it Slavery.

 

[shintao]

I have seen what corporations do to people, and what government does to people, and I would side with trusting government before I would ever trust a corporation.

Corporations don't care if people die. Whether it be a Katrina disaster or shutting off the electric power to families in the winter so they die of exposure. They want relaxed regulations so they can murder more people with their products cheaper. They have no use for repairing America, just raping it of its resources. The corporate way has made us a third world country.

On the other hand the corporate world has provided for us our entire standard of living. We would almost all be dead without corporate American providing our gas, food and keeping us safe from Katrinas.

I grant that business does promote our standards, for say technology used to exploit the consumer for more profit, but that is where it ends. The corporation is not building bridges, freeways, levees, damns, sanitation, communities, they are using them. You wouldn't find a corporation helping humanity without a profit motive, and that is why we have slipped from #1 to #13 in the world of industrial nations. That is why government has taken over National health care. And that is why government should take over all National security items. Your family's life is dependent on profit of corporations, and people are dying because of it. Our economy was endangered by it, such as gouging for profit conducted by big oil, oil spills, cancerous oil products, etc. Those people don't deserve to even be in America.

Government is mainly focused on wars, which kill many of our young to support the corporate machine that government is most beholden to.

My answer to your question is: neither, both, and can't I have more than two options! In that order.

Typical of a partisan to frame every issue into an either/or, pitting two unGAWDly options against one another while eliminating all sane options from the fray.

It's like: "who do you trust more, rioting skinheads or rioting muslims?".

It still comes down to a step by step choice of each corporate worth to society, or governments need to regulate, or control, or take control of. I get what you mean.

Personally, I would have government take control of the National Security items, the baci needs of our society, because I can trust them to provide for America, as it is in their best interest to do so. Then let private business continue on with its capitalism until it creates a problem where government once again needs to intervene.

Just taking over National oil could lower our gasoline costs to $1 a gallon. It is your oil on government lands, so the oil is free and always has been. The Army engineers who currently oversee corporate oil on the lands could take it all over from the cavern to the fuel tank. Let private corporations compete if they wish with foreign imported oil, or buy out their operations rather than waste money subsidizing them. There are ways We The People could make a profit off our own resources. It isn't rocket science anymore.

Human Development Index

United States #13

Norway 0.971 (&#9644
Australia 0.970 (&#9644
Iceland 0.969 (&#9644
Canada 0.966 (&#9644
Ireland 0.965 (&#9644
Netherlands 0.964 (▲ 1)
Sweden 0.963 (▼ 1)
France 0.961 (▲ 3)
Switzerland 0.960 (&#9644
Japan 0.960 (&#9644
Luxembourg 0.960 (▼ 3)
Finland 0.959 (▲ 1)
United States 0.956 (▼ 1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

 

[Charles_Main]

I choose the individual who makes decisions for themselves under the basis of LIBERTY. I choose the individual who takes risks, reaps the rewards, and suffers the failures. I choose the individual that stands for personal responsibility and freedom.

So you took liberty to mean I THE INDIVIDUAL, and not WE THE PEOPLE. You think liberty is free, that WE THE PEOPLE didn't die for your freedoms, or that you lack responsibilitys to your country and humanity. You are selfish, and you are a taker, taking what you don't deserve and declaring liberty unto yourself. Pathetic.

Government that impedes the individual the means to pursue their own ends can go to hell.

Yes, ME ME ME and no one else. You make me sick.

Capitalism is the economic manifestation of freedom. Don't like it? Compete. Can't compete? Shit or get off the pot.

Capitalism is a yoke of slavery on the many for the benefit of the few. You should know, owing trillions of dollars your great grandchildren will be paying for when your sorry ass is dead and gone. Are you going to stiff your kids for your ME ME ME coffin as well?

Yes us us us you make me sick. It is about freedom asshat.

 

[Avatar4321]

You do realize this a false dichotemy don't you?

 

[shintao]

So Shintao, what sort of Economic System do you purpose besides Capitalism? Since you consider it Slavery.

Pure capitalism cannot compete with socialism in a global market, so under the circumstances we would be better served by a quasi-socialist economic system like found in Germany. There is an element of capitalism there, but socialism provides many attributes that capitalism can't. Like a stable monetary system that attracts investors. Better control over market forces to maintain a stable lifestyle for its people, yet doesn't prevent one from climbing the ladder toward success. And as I noted, the government control over National Security items is essential.

Personally, I would have government take control of the National Security items, the basic needs of our society, because I can trust them to provide for America, as it is in their best interest to do so. Then let private business continue on with its capitalism until it creates a problem where government once again needs to intervene.

There is a question of who should be receiving the rewards of our resources. Alaska gives a percentage back to the citizens and so should the other 49 states. We currently have foreigners ripping us off. Shouldn't we be compensated for our losses??

 

[shintao]

Yes us us us you make me sick. It is about freedom asshat.

The next time they call a war, have your ass in it..........

 

[Flopper]

I would never trust a corporation with anything that jeopardize it's ability too turn a profit for that is its sole reason for existence.

I would never trust government to do anything in a cost effective manner as it is designed to be accountable and fair in all things which usually precludes an efficient operation.

 

[Dr Grump]

To answer the OP, I would trust the government far and away above corporations, but I'll make a qualification: I would trust MY form of govt.

Having seen how your government is run, I can understand why a lot of you wouldn't trust it. In saying that, I would trust your corporations a whole lot less...

 

[shintao]

You do realize this a false dichotemy don't you?

I came up with three, want to add your personal touch to the options?

 

[Dr Grump]

I choose the individual who makes decisions for themselves under the basis of LIBERTY. I choose the individual who takes risks, reaps the rewards, and suffers the failures. I choose the individual that stands for personal responsibility and freedom.

So you took liberty to mean I THE INDIVIDUAL, and not WE THE PEOPLE. You think liberty is free, that WE THE PEOPLE didn't die for your freedoms, or that you lack responsibilitys to your country and humanity. You are selfish, and you are a taker, taking what you don't deserve and declaring liberty unto yourself. Pathetic.


Yes, ME ME ME and no one else. You make me sick.

Capitalism is the economic manifestation of freedom. Don't like it? Compete. Can't compete? Shit or get off the pot.

Capitalism is a yoke of slavery on the many for the benefit of the few. You should know, owing trillions of dollars your great grandchildren will be paying for when your sorry ass is dead and gone. Are you going to stiff your kids for your ME ME ME coffin as well?

Yes us us us you make me sick. It is about freedom asshat.

What freedom? You think you have freedom? Really?? What is freedom?

 

[shintao]

[

My Gawd you are an economic illiterate. Oil is not free. It costs money to explore, develop, extract, process, transport, and distribute oil, among other elements of the cost structure.

Stuck on exploration huh? Have a clue what is costs to extract a 100 barrels of your free crude out of the ground with an engine/or electric motor & pump? Transport & distribute are taken care of by the 50% of free oil by-products. You have changed nothing, we are still at .30 cents to refine our own free oil.

Here's a link to Exxon's income statement. The net profit margin for 2009 was a little over 6%.

Do you actually think any corporation could be in business with a 6% profit margin?? LMAO!! I will use your line dear, "My Gawd you are an economic illiterate." Your figure includes foreign oil, or about 60% they had imported from various foreign countries. I won't be using foreign or private oil, I will be using your oil, much of which has already went through the process & sets with a cap on it. I know, because I own a recently capped well in Ca. that is being leased. They have been pumping it for 50 years, and yes, the lease payments continues. They shut them down during the last oil gouge in 2007. They simply have nowhere to hide oil above ground, so they leave it capped off underground. Refineries are only running at about 60% of capacity, and many corporations have been selling out, like Shell oil did in Bakersfield after they topped off our National Reserves. The new cars are gaining in fuel efficiency, about 3-5% better a year, the bad economy & lost commuters, so we are exporting oil to Japan, Korea, Mexico, Canada, and I suppose a few other countries by now, as I haven't looked in several years.

Blather and nonsense. You are clearly yet another moron who thinks that businesses that kill off their customers (with the exception of tobacco companies which do it slowly), stay in business.

Yes, as a matter of fact they do. How many salmonella death cases have we had from produce and meats, and are any of those corporations out of business? How many people have died of heart failure due to eating fats from fast food restaurants, and are they still in business? How many people have died because of incompetent workmanship on transportation, and are they still in business? How many people have died due to handguns, and are they still in business? How many people have died due to heat/cold exposure a year thanks to energy corporations? You are clearly an imbecile!!!

Do you think one fucking corporation gives a shit if you die?? LOL!! You know these pacemakers they stick in people. Medtronic was selling one they knew was defective, and having them implanted in people who died. Do you think they gave a fuck? No, until they had to start paying fines, but what is that compared to the 100,000 they make off a ticker running a heart? You are really clueless, and you have the nerve to call me a moron?? you!!

Remember the Pinto gas tank? The GM tires? Go read a list of all the class action lawsuits for Agent Orange, asbestos, pharmaceutical drugs, toys, heaters, etc.

 

[MarcATL]

The list of wrongs the corporations do and continue to do unfettered is staggering.

I really have no idea why RepubliCON$ feel the need to drop to their knees and blow whenever a corporation comes around.

 

[The Rabbi]

The list of wrongs the corporations do and continue to do unfettered is staggering.

I really have no idea why RepubliCON$ feel the need to drop to their knees and blow whenever a corporation comes around.

Same goes for gov't.
The difference is the list of right things corporations do every single day is staggering. Further individuals have votes via their wallet on corporations that they do not have on politicians. Corporations are far mroe responsive than government. Look at the response of WalMart and Home Depot to Katrina and compare that to either Louisiana or the FedGov.

 

[DiamondDave]

Neither

It is why we don't have corporations running law and government.. and exactly why we should not have government expanding, expanding power, and telling people it is there to take over responsibilities for them

 

[Liberty]

So is armed robbery. NEXT!

~ the folks who invented democracy

uhhh...depriving one's rights is not a manifestation or a practice of liberty...i hope you were being sarcastic and i just dont get it.

one who advocates for freedom and liberty is not advocating for anarchy. Government is necessary to enforce laws that provide a consequence for an individual depriving another individual of their rights. That, along with maintaining a currency, and protecting the boarders are the only job of the federal government according the founders via the federalist papers. Our current federal government, arguably since Lincoln, and without a doubt after wilson and FDR, is an assault on liberty. I implore you to find the definition of "soft tyranny" and understand that is the type of umbrella in which americans live under. It is mostly fake freedom, as compared to the pure freedom envisioned by the founders and embodied in the constitution when read and understood as written.

Side note: who exactly said your quote? The founders I know abhorred democracy and spoke strongly against it. Advocating instead for a republic.

Another person who claims to "understand" what the founders meant. The Federalist Papers hold no legal status because the founders didn't agree on them - hence the formation of political parties, essentially arguing the same things that we're arguing right now.

hey fuckface,

I never said they had legal binding. Legal binding or not, to not take them seriously is to undermine the entire fucking purpose of the constitution.