Change! Black boxes in cars may soon be mandatory

[Duped]

This is another blatant attack on our freedom. The wonderful freedom so many brave souls gave life, and limb for.
It is a great since of freedom cruising on the roads - we don't need the damn government riding along with us!
How many times do we hear that this intrusion is for the better good? The government wants total control over us.
I guess if they had tracking devises in our bodies that would also be a good thing

 

[Missourian]

Tax by the mile...coming soon.

 

[Immanuel]

Well it seems you folks didn't mind when ol Bush started listening through our phone calls and reading our email.

Didja?

Where did you think that was gonna stop, eh?

Like hell I didn't bitch when the Bush admin began allowing the monitoring of phone calls and emails! I was opposed to the Patriot Act from day one as well. I always said... I don't care what Bush is telling you today, someday there will be a President who abuses the power (and I'd name Hillary Clinton as a likely candidate) and then what will all you supporters say? Instead of Hillary, we got Barack. Slippery slope or not, those who control the government are gradually removing the protections we once had against an intrusive government. Soon we are going to wake up and find that we have no freedoms to fight for any longer.

Immie

You are one of the few that was against that stuff.

By looking at the support President Obama has gotten from his supporters when he extended the Patriot Act, I would say that I was one of the few on either side that truly opposed that shit. Democrats raised a big stink when the Bush Admin started preaching to us about being patriots and supporting this awful bill, but now that the tide has turned... ?

In fact, as predicted (by me... lucky guess, I suppose) President Obama has not only extended the Bush policies, but actually increased them with the NDAA. Now, I have been told and read that the detention portion of the bill was written out before it was passed and signed, but I have also read that it made it through and has been held up in court.

Court upholds NDAA; stay extended on indefinite detention injunction — RT

I am certain someone will pop up and scream, "slippery slope... slippery slope... it is just a slippery slope argument". Well, I wish you could prove to me things have stopped getting worse.

Immie

 

[Sallow]

Like hell I didn't bitch when the Bush admin began allowing the monitoring of phone calls and emails! I was opposed to the Patriot Act from day one as well. I always said... I don't care what Bush is telling you today, someday there will be a President who abuses the power (and I'd name Hillary Clinton as a likely candidate) and then what will all you supporters say? Instead of Hillary, we got Barack. Slippery slope or not, those who control the government are gradually removing the protections we once had against an intrusive government. Soon we are going to wake up and find that we have no freedoms to fight for any longer.

Immie

You are one of the few that was against that stuff.

By looking at the support President Obama has gotten from his supporters when he extended the Patriot Act, I would say that I was one of the few on either side that truly opposed that shit. Democrats raised a big stink when the Bush Admin started preaching to us about being patriots and supporting this awful bill, but now that the tide has turned... ?

In fact, as predicted (by me... lucky guess, I suppose) President Obama has not only extended the Bush policies, but actually increased them with the NDAA. Now, I have been told and read that the detention portion of the bill was written out before it was passed and signed, but I have also read that it made it through and has been held up in court.

Court upholds NDAA; stay extended on indefinite detention injunction — RT

I am certain someone will pop up and scream, "slippery slope... slippery slope... it is just a slippery slope argument". Well, I wish you could prove to me things have stopped getting worse.

Immie

Depends.

But remember one thing.

Presidents don't give up power.

No matter which side of the aisle that President comes from.

 

[Immanuel]

You are one of the few that was against that stuff.

By looking at the support President Obama has gotten from his supporters when he extended the Patriot Act, I would say that I was one of the few on either side that truly opposed that shit. Democrats raised a big stink when the Bush Admin started preaching to us about being patriots and supporting this awful bill, but now that the tide has turned... ?

In fact, as predicted (by me... lucky guess, I suppose) President Obama has not only extended the Bush policies, but actually increased them with the NDAA. Now, I have been told and read that the detention portion of the bill was written out before it was passed and signed, but I have also read that it made it through and has been held up in court.

Court upholds NDAA; stay extended on indefinite detention injunction — RT

I am certain someone will pop up and scream, "slippery slope... slippery slope... it is just a slippery slope argument". Well, I wish you could prove to me things have stopped getting worse.

Immie

Depends.

But remember one thing.

Presidents don't give up power.

No matter which side of the aisle that President comes from.

Hehe, then maybe it was not such a "lucky guess" after all?

Immie

 

[thereisnospoon]

This a all part of the federal government's plan to institute a "mileage tax".
Some states, Iowa for one, have floated the idea of tracking Iowa registered vehicles so that the State could tax the owner based on the mileage driven in the state.
The idea was met with an immediate backlash. Elected officials learned very quickly this idea would most likely cost them their careers in office.
Now, the federal government which has on the executive order of The Chosen One raised CAFE standard to over 50 mpg by 2025. Washington politicians seeing the possibility of a drastic reduction in fuel consumption is attempting to find ways to make up the lost revenue in fuel taxation. So the next step is to mandate tracking devices be installed in vehicles so that for one, the vehicle will be taxed on every mile driven. And of course the bonus is , the federal government can have a way to track our movements.
So where is the ACLU on this? NOWHERE.. The ACLU is not concerned with freedom. It is only concerned about cases where it can generate money for the ACLU.
Should this become law, people will find ways around it.

States have been doing that to big trucks for years.

It's WAY past the time to oppose that.

Really? Prove it.
Individual trucking companies track their vehicles. The technology is very expensive. And the more affordable is rudimentary. Just shows the location of the vehicle.
Amazing, you people on the left will howl from the rooftops in protest over shit like the Patriot Act, but you will bend over and grab your ankles when the government proposes something that will make you "feel safe".
All the sudden the fucking ACLU liberal snitch patrol is nowhere to be found.
Oh and this IS the time to fight this. Before it ever gets started.
Look genius, car rental companies were floating this idea years ago. It failed because people simply do not want their movements tracked. These companies backed off in a hurry. It was bad for business.
What's next with you fucking liberals, "your papers please?"
Look, you're not getting your way on this so just forget it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unsafe, lying perjurers committing insurance fraud will be stopped in their tracks.

I don't have a problem with this.

Perhaps in your pathetic little world of perpetual paranoia.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Won't be any black boxes on any of my trucks.

no opt out...you is stuck with it if you buy a new car in the usa.

"you is"....Gee, how far down the ladder of ignorant are you going?
Hey, cheesecake brain, if there is a way to remove or disable the thing, people who are reasonably handy will find a way to beat the government busy body tracking device.
The last thing I want is some internet nosy shit like you deciding to go on some pay site to find out what is none of your fucking business.

 

[Oldguy]

Really? Prove it.

Ton Mile Tax Law & Legal Definition

Individual trucking companies track their vehicles. The technology is very expensive. And the more affordable is rudimentary. Just shows the location of the vehicle.
Amazing, you people on the left will howl from the rooftops in protest over shit like the Patriot Act, but you will bend over and grab your ankles when the government proposes something that will make you "feel safe".
All the sudden the fucking ACLU liberal snitch patrol is nowhere to be found.
Oh and this IS the time to fight this. Before it ever gets started.
Look genius, car rental companies were floating this idea years ago. It failed because people simply do not want their movements tracked. These companies backed off in a hurry. It was bad for business.
What's next with you fucking liberals, "your papers please?"
Look, you're not getting your way on this so just forget it.

I don't know what the rest of your rant is about, but taxing vehicles by the mile has been around for a long time. That horse is already out of the barn.

 

[Oldguy]

The last thing I want is some internet nosy shit like you deciding to go on some pay site to find out what is none of your fucking business.

What the fuck are you talking about?

If you want to disconnect the thing, I don't care. It's not MY warranty.

 

[Pogo]

This a all part of the federal government's plan to institute a "mileage tax".
Some states, Iowa for one, have floated the idea of tracking Iowa registered vehicles so that the State could tax the owner based on the mileage driven in the state.
The idea was met with an immediate backlash. Elected officials learned very quickly this idea would most likely cost them their careers in office.
Now, the federal government which has on the executive order of The Chosen One raised CAFE standard to over 50 mpg by 2025. Washington politicians seeing the possibility of a drastic reduction in fuel consumption is attempting to find ways to make up the lost revenue in fuel taxation. So the next step is to mandate tracking devices be installed in vehicles so that for one, the vehicle will be taxed on every mile driven. And of course the bonus is , the federal government can have a way to track our movements.
So where is the ACLU on this? NOWHERE.. The ACLU is not concerned with freedom. It is only concerned about cases where it can generate money for the ACLU.
Should this become law, people will find ways around it.

That mileage tax idea came out of the 2005 Highway Bill passed by Congress. The University of Iowa was commissioned to test-run the program in several states (the full test results are here). For what it's worth Obama's (Republican) Trans Sec Ray LaHood floated this idea at the beginning of the administration in 2009, and Obama slapped it down immediately.

Supposedly the idea is that current fuel per-gallon taxes have stagnated and failed to keep up with costs. It does not seem to have occurred to these brainiacs to simply raise the fuel tax; they would rather retrofit 250 million cars with spy boxes.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Car Black Boxes Raise Privacy Concerns

Since Obama is prez this will be okay, right? Remember the hissies libs threw over libraries and the patriot act?

From your link.................................

In the next few days, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is expected to propose long-delayed regulations requiring auto manufacturers to include event data recorders — better known as "black boxes" — in all new cars and light trucks. But the agency is behind the curve. Automakers have been quietly tucking the devices, which automatically record the actions of drivers and the responses of their vehicles in a continuous information loop, into most new cars for years.

When a car is involved in a crash or when its airbags deploy, inputs from the vehicle's sensors during the 5 to 10 seconds before impact are automatically preserved. That's usually enough to record things like how fast the car was traveling and whether the driver applied the brake, was steering erratically or had a seat belt on.

The idea is to gather information that can help investigators determine the cause of accidents and lead to safer vehicles. But privacy advocates say government regulators and automakers are spreading an intrusive technology without first putting in place policies to prevent misuse of the information collected.

Car Black Boxes Raise Privacy Concerns

So............if automakers have already been doing this for years, how did Obama implement it?

 

[Jarlaxle]

This a all part of the federal government's plan to institute a "mileage tax".
Some states, Iowa for one, have floated the idea of tracking Iowa registered vehicles so that the State could tax the owner based on the mileage driven in the state.
The idea was met with an immediate backlash. Elected officials learned very quickly this idea would most likely cost them their careers in office.
Now, the federal government which has on the executive order of The Chosen One raised CAFE standard to over 50 mpg by 2025. Washington politicians seeing the possibility of a drastic reduction in fuel consumption is attempting to find ways to make up the lost revenue in fuel taxation. So the next step is to mandate tracking devices be installed in vehicles so that for one, the vehicle will be taxed on every mile driven. And of course the bonus is , the federal government can have a way to track our movements.
So where is the ACLU on this? NOWHERE.. The ACLU is not concerned with freedom. It is only concerned about cases where it can generate money for the ACLU.
Should this become law, people will find ways around it.

States have been doing that to big trucks for years.

It's WAY past the time to oppose that.

Really? Prove it.
Individual trucking companies track their vehicles. The technology is very expensive. And the more affordable is rudimentary. Just shows the location of the vehicle.
Amazing, you people on the left will howl from the rooftops in protest over shit like the Patriot Act, but you will bend over and grab your ankles when the government proposes something that will make you "feel safe".
All the sudden the fucking ACLU liberal snitch patrol is nowhere to be found.
Oh and this IS the time to fight this. Before it ever gets started.
Look genius, car rental companies were floating this idea years ago. It failed because people simply do not want their movements tracked. These companies backed off in a hurry. It was bad for business.
What's next with you fucking liberals, "your papers please?"
Look, you're not getting your way on this so just forget it.

Ryder tracks all their vehicles, and the technology is anything but "rudimentary". The system (called Rydesmart) tracks speed, MPG, idle time, RPM's, hard braking and hard stops, ABS activation, even things like clutch usage. If a Ryder truck has a rectangular or oval-shaped black thing attached to the bottom right corner of the windshield in the cab, it has Rydesmart.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Use of such a device would be illegal in that the US Constitution is silent on tyhe issue of electronic tracking of citizens by government officials
In the link below, case law appears to have ruled that there is no expectation of privacy under the law for use of the public roadways.
However, the random tracking and monitoring of the People's whereabouts for the gathering of certain information is not mentioned.
Because the Constitution is a LIMITING DOCUMENT, the absence of such permission to track is Unconstitutional.
In other words, since the Constitution does not permit not does it allow, the balance is tipped in favor of the People.
The conclusion is that without specific laws permitting such tracking, it is deemed illegal.
The goverment or it's agents do not have the right to do something "because it doesn't say we can't".
Someone Is Following You: Using GPS to Track People - Lawyers.com

 

[thereisnospoon]

States have been doing that to big trucks for years.

It's WAY past the time to oppose that.

Really? Prove it.
Individual trucking companies track their vehicles. The technology is very expensive. And the more affordable is rudimentary. Just shows the location of the vehicle.
Amazing, you people on the left will howl from the rooftops in protest over shit like the Patriot Act, but you will bend over and grab your ankles when the government proposes something that will make you "feel safe".
All the sudden the fucking ACLU liberal snitch patrol is nowhere to be found.
Oh and this IS the time to fight this. Before it ever gets started.
Look genius, car rental companies were floating this idea years ago. It failed because people simply do not want their movements tracked. These companies backed off in a hurry. It was bad for business.
What's next with you fucking liberals, "your papers please?"
Look, you're not getting your way on this so just forget it.

Ryder tracks all their vehicles, and the technology is anything but "rudimentary". The system (called Rydesmart) tracks speed, MPG, idle time, RPM's, hard braking and hard stops, ABS activation, even things like clutch usage. If a Ryder truck has a rectangular or oval-shaped black thing attached to the bottom right corner of the windshield in the cab, it has Rydesmart.

Yeah and? I won't be renting from that company then. Case closed.
We're not talking about private business. The issue here is whether or not the government has the right to mandate the installation of tracking devices for the purpose of tracking the movements of innocent private citizens.

The freedom of the citizens to move about as they please is sacrosanct.
Government intrusion upon this freedom would be an outrage.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You condone drivers who claim they were wearing their seatbelts in order to collect more on a claim?

Or drivers who were exceeding the speed limits by 30%, cause an accident and claim to have been driving the speed limit?

I thought cons were the truth and morality party.

The black boxes are for insurance forensics after an incident.

Now go open your blinds.

I support personal freedom and responsibility Comrade. I also support prosecuting dirtbags that defraud insurance companies. What I DON'T support is ANY entity, whether private or govt, keeping track of every citizens movements. You of course are all right with that, maybe you should move to North Korea Comrade. By the way, Accident Investagators within the Various PD's can tell how fast you were going and most other things when there is an accident, including whether you had a belt on or not.

Actually, I belong in the USA more than you. I actually practice freedom for all while you want to exile those who don't agree with you.

THAT makes YOU the Comrade.

"I belong in the USA more than you do"?...
First prove that one..Second, are you 7 years old?
Anyone who is willing to have the government track their every move because they fear the one in a million to one chance that they may be harmed in a case of insurance fraud is a lunatic. If you feel this way, you really should just stay the fuck home.
A nation where government officials and bureaucrats can track my movements and levy financial charges based my right to move about is NOT the kind of place in which to live.
No self respecting patriotic American would stand for this oppressive type of government.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unsafe, lying perjurers committing insurance fraud will be stopped in their tracks.

I don't have a problem with this.

Neither do I Kiki if it meant MY rates went down for being a safe and responsible driver. Much of my work revolves around driving so I have to drive as if my life and job depended on it because it does. GPS in many vehicles is a way of life for some employees. We are monitored in many aspects of our lives already.

My issue is when the rewards for being a good safe driver are not recognized in my bill. I have a perfect driving record but the rates are very high here because of bad drivers. They get surcharged heavily for moving violations but I don't think the ins. companies pass enough of the money they take with higher premiums to those of us who are good drivers.

I see more of a loss loss when insurance companies have a chance to "monitor" us.

I am curious. How many here drive the speed limit or under always?

I am not willing to give up my right to move about as I please based on an "if"..
No sane person would allow their movements to be tracked just to save a few bucks on their insurance premiums.
That is the height of stupid.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Won't be any black boxes on any of my trucks.

My vehicles will also be excluded. And there's nothing government can do about it.
If the federal or state government wants to waste expensive resources tracking down every auto that belongs to a person who does not want to have their movements tracked, they are free to give it a go.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? Prove it.

Ton Mile Tax Law & Legal Definition

Individual trucking companies track their vehicles. The technology is very expensive. And the more affordable is rudimentary. Just shows the location of the vehicle.
Amazing, you people on the left will howl from the rooftops in protest over shit like the Patriot Act, but you will bend over and grab your ankles when the government proposes something that will make you "feel safe".
All the sudden the fucking ACLU liberal snitch patrol is nowhere to be found.
Oh and this IS the time to fight this. Before it ever gets started.
Look genius, car rental companies were floating this idea years ago. It failed because people simply do not want their movements tracked. These companies backed off in a hurry. It was bad for business.
What's next with you fucking liberals, "your papers please?"
Look, you're not getting your way on this so just forget it.

I don't know what the rest of your rant is about, but taxing vehicles by the mile has been around for a long time. That horse is already out of the barn.

Which state has laws that "tax by the mile"?.And I am not interested in federal or state road use taxes(( which BTW do not tax by the mile) which are charged to INTERSTATE trucks only.
I have lived in 5 different states. I know of none which use tracking devices that "tax by the mile"..
So it is your job to find such laws and post them here.
Inquiring minds want to know.
One thing....Why are you so willing to have the government know your whereabouts 24/7/365?
And please, spare me the "well we're almost there right now" argument...That doesn't wash.
Now, this issue is specific to the installation of tracking devices in private vehicles. Stay on point.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The last thing I want is some internet nosy shit like you deciding to go on some pay site to find out what is none of your fucking business.

What the fuck are you talking about?

If you want to disconnect the thing, I don't care. It's not MY warranty.

Warranty? Who said anything about a fucking warranty?
You people have already laid down on your backs and pissed yourselves like a submissive dog on this. How sad.
Why don't you just take a permanent bend over and grab your ankles pose?