British Muslims demand insulting Islam be outlawed

Of course. I'm Irish. :beer:




Yeah I get it. You're nitpicking one name out of a paragraph of several, conveniently forgetting the sentence that follows it: "Other Continental soldiers with Islamic names include Salem Poor, Yusuf Ben Ali, Bampett Muhamed, Francis Saba and Joseph Saba." to make the same point --- all of which is a quote from somebody else anyway, which you then project onto the poster.

Whatever. You started this tangent with

-- which plainly makes no point, but seems to imply that because a city that's now in Israel has the suffix "Salem" in it, then it must be a Jewish name. So I called bullshit.

I rarely get passed the first sentence of Sunni's posts before I have to correct something, so the first name I saw was Peter Salem.
My short tongue in cheek response was, "As in Jeru Salem?" Because that "city" that is now in Israel was CALLED SALEM IN ANCIENT TIMES, you little Irish butthead. :razz:

It was the perfect example of how Salem does not fall into the category of Muslim exclusivity, if one has even the slightest knowledge of "the city" that's now in Israel.
I call your Bullshit and raise you to Sunni's level. :eek:

Oh please. I called you on your BS, now wear it. No one claimed "Muslim exclusivity" so now I raise you a strawman.
I already noted that that city goes back to the Bronze Age. That's got zero to do with Peter Salem in the fricking 18th century.
 
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:tongue: You can friend them by the dozens on facebook.......
Pete, Mary Ann, Benjamin, Cody, :tongue:

But back on topic Sunni,
Do you think we should also pass law regarding insulting of Islam? What should the punishment be if someone insults Islam or Mohammad?
Should we also punish those who insult Jews? :eusa_angel:

Since your name is Irish Ram - are you an Irish citizen? Or American? In the US we would never pass such a law. Freedom of speech - even the most hateful moronic speech - is enshrined. Where the line is drawn is if it involves inciting a riot or libel or slander. I tend to agree with it to the extent that if it is not allowed, the hatred is driven underground and away from the light of truth. It also legitimizes the views of those people and allows them to portray themselves as victims.

Other countries do not have quite that freedom - for example holocaust denial is a crime in some European countries while in some Muslim countries insulting Mohammed is a crime. Neither of which I agree with.

The Irish Ram is the name of one of my Irish ancestor's ships. They were Irish Americans before there was a United States. They used trees that they girdled to define the parameters of the land they cleared as did other settlers in the early 1600's. We've been here ever since, but visit the rest of the family back in Moneymore when we get the chance.


And while I would love to believe that freedom of speech is sacred in this country, (like our right to bear arms is safe :doubt: ) even free speech is being undermined. You can go to jail for "hate speech" now with no definition of what hate crimes encompass.
e.g.
Philadelphia grandmothers thrown in jail in Pennsylvania under that state’s “hate crimes” law for testifying in public about their Christian faith.

Rights and political correctness are clashing, and one rules the day at the expense of the other.
I certainly don't want the Muslim Brotherhood, on Obama's staff defining what is acceptable to them, concerning what comes out of my mouth, but that is where we are at, and I see no swell of patriotism challenging it.

I disagree with what you say but will fight to the death for your right to say it,
has long since been set aside, in favor of the overly offended.
 
Since your name is Irish Ram - are you an Irish citizen? Or American? In the US we would never pass such a law. Freedom of speech - even the most hateful moronic speech - is enshrined. Where the line is drawn is if it involves inciting a riot or libel or slander. I tend to agree with it to the extent that if it is not allowed, the hatred is driven underground and away from the light of truth. It also legitimizes the views of those people and allows them to portray themselves as victims.

Other countries do not have quite that freedom - for example holocaust denial is a crime in some European countries while in some Muslim countries insulting Mohammed is a crime. Neither of which I agree with.

The Irish Ram is the name of one of my Irish ancestor's ships. They were Irish Americans before there was a United States. They used trees that they girdled to define the parameters of the land they cleared as did other settlers in the early 1600's. We've been here ever since, but visit the rest of the family back in Moneymore when we get the chance.


And while I would love to believe that freedom of speech is sacred in this country, (like our right to bear arms is safe :doubt: ) even free speech is being undermined. You can go to jail for "hate speech" now with no definition of what hate crimes encompass.
e.g.
Philadelphia grandmothers thrown in jail in Pennsylvania under that state’s “hate crimes” law for testifying in public about their Christian faith.

Rights and political correctness are clashing, and one rules the day at the expense of the other.
I certainly don't want the Muslim Brotherhood, on Obama's staff defining what is acceptable to them, concerning what comes out of my mouth, but that is where we are at, and I see no swell of patriotism challenging it.

I disagree with what you say but will fight to the death for your right to say it,
has long since been set aside, in favor of the overly offended.

Do you have a reputable link to the Philadelphia claim? I can only find WND which is not a good source.

Why on earth would the MB be defining anything in this country nor do I see Obama restricting free speech. Given our freedom to say the foulest things I have no fear free speech will be compromised here.
 
But back on topic Sunni,
Do you think we should also pass law regarding insulting of Islam? What should the punishment be if someone insults Islam or Mohammad?
Should we also punish those who insult Jews?
You need to take your Christian hate some where else Irish Ram .. :cool:

You need to stop confusing hate with curiosity, Sunni.
Like, what stops you from answering my questions? Or, is how you really feel contradictory to the facade you portray, so you deflect to take the spotlight off of the foot in your mouth?

It's a simple question. What do you think the punishment should be for someone that insults Islam, and should the Jews be offered the same level of comfort the Muslims demand?
 
Muslims played role in nation’s history

One veteran of the battles of Concord and Bunker Hill was a freed slave named Peter Salem, who is alleged by some historians to have been Muslim, based on his last name, which is similar to the Arabic name Saleem.

Surely, the man must have been Muslim, considering his name sounds like Saleem, because no other culture has ever used the word Salem in their ancestry. right.

If you want to buy that crap, go right ahead, but I know that Peter Salem cannot be defined as Muslim because his name is kind of like Saleem, any more than, manure rhyming with Du Jour, makes shit smell like perfume.
 
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Coyote,
JUSTICE DENIED TO PHILADELPHIA 11
Appeals court rules against/for Christians arrested at "OutFest 2004" 07/17/08

PHILADELPHIA – Despite being vindicated of all wrongdoing in criminal court, the Philadelphia 11 lost their federal lawsuit against the City of Philadelphia when an appeals court ruled that their rights were not violated when they were arrested and jailed for attempting to witness and preach the Gospel at a homosexual event in 2004. The suit was filed on behalf of eleven Christians, who became known as the Philadelphia 11, who were cleared of "hate crime" and other felony and misdemeanor charges following their arrests at the City's annual tax-payer funded homosexual event called "OutFest".
Google the Philadelphia Eleven.

And this, "A teacher's aide is challenging her one-year suspension without pay for wearing a cross necklace." is also an expression of free speech.
 
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i hear ya.....my family is Italian and we have some Wopahos in it...



*Inappropriate comment withheld*

aw come on ....dont hold back.......you are not talking to Poet here..i can take it....:eusa_angel:



Nah, nah, it wouldn't be nice (not terrible - probably not as funny as it seemed to me at the time - and against the rules), so...

I'll say it combined ethnic and gender slurs in a disrespectful (though not mean spirited) manner, and let you figure it out.

I'm probably being overly cautious of your feelings, but I'm just so fucking polite!
 
The unresolvable problems with such a 'law', at least in the U.S., include:

a) The first amendment, which I've heard tell protects something called speech and prohibits promotion of religions.

b) Insults. What are they? When does a comment become one?

c) Most important, who gets to decide?

The term 'hate speech' should tell us that some hate speaking our mind. Mind control is what they are about, just as is any religion that insists on one mode of thought. How could a Great God ever be insulted by a lowly creation? It isn't possible. Only the subjective rules created by small minds can be insulted. These deserve it.
 
"Explain that to Sunni."

Please don't ask for the impossible, 'Ram. Explanation requires dialog with a rational person capable of honest, open intellectual interchange. One can, for example, explain to a three-year-old why the sky is blue.

See the difference?
 
It could have happened anytime in the lineage between the Revolution and current day. It did not have to happen in Mayflower times or even in Revolutionary times. There have been several generations since and in any one an ancestor of hers could have married a muslim. It could have been her mother, grandmother, great grandmother, etc. But she is still a DAR because one farther back the line was in the Revolution. Stop being so concrete.

Why would any non muslim woman be so stupid as to marry a muslim man? She think getting beat sounds like fun or what? Or maybe it's that stylish black sheet she has to wear... :eusa_hand:

I know a lot of British women who are married to Muslim men, also some American women, South African women, etc., who are married to Muslim men. They marry them because there is nothing essentially different between a Muslim man and a Christian man, or Jewish man, etc. It is just a difference in religion. The vast majority of Muslim men (and women) are not extremists. The women I know who have married Muslim men are educated, professional women who married educated, professional Muslim men. I know many such couples who have been married for 20, 30 years or so. They have raised their families and live just like anyone else. Thinking that all Muslims are extremists and fundamentalists simply displays a great deal of ignorance. These women dress and live like all modern women. Their husbands don't beat them; they don't cover. Your ideas about how most Muslim people live are incorrect.

As far as the OP, I would suggest it would be a good idea to consider the source of this article. I highly doubt that if a protest of 25,000 people in England, anywhere in England, about any topic would be overlooked by the mainstream media. Either this event didn't happen at all, or the numbers have been highly exaggerated, and it was 250 or 2500 people at most.

I have been in countries outside the US where there were relatively small protests or demonstrations (a few hundred, meaning 200 - 300 people), and, yet, the media, like the BBC or CNN, reported that there was a demonstration of thousands or hundreds of thousands. Completely wrong.

Yep. Amazing how the media inflates reality to support their particular political agendas. Anyway, why would mainstream media be interested in covering what in reality is a localised annual rally held in a Birmingham park? Especially when some muslims are constantly calling for the majority to conform to the minority. Seems to me that these muslims are missing the point. British law and freedom of speech is what enables them to rally and protest in public places, yet they want to see it changed! :cuckoo:

Instead of getting their knickers in a twist over what they perceive as islamaphobe insults to islam, shouldn't they be protesting against what must be the biggest insult to islam...the murder and atrocities conducted by islamists in the name of their god! After all, sticks and stones and all that.
 
I wonder if the Brits are foolish enough to ever cave in to such a demand? Hope not.

I wish that all of Europe would do what the Netheralands did. As a Daughter of the American Revolution, I never though I would see the day when feudalism looked to be the only hope of the world. If you look closely at coutries where muslims have become more than half the population they have voted in an islamic theocracy and systematically persecuted those who belong to other religions. They could do that here under the right circumstances. But in the UK, the monarch can do away with Parliament. We have no such mechanism that would take back our country.

No...we have a Constitution that prevents the establishment of a state religion....
 

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