British Muslims demand insulting Islam be outlawed

[syrenn]

I wonder if the Brits are foolish enough to ever cave in to such a demand? Hope not.

of course they will.... watch.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

If the Brits were to enact such a law at the behest of their indigenous Muslim population, would the Brits ALSO make it equally criminal to "insult" any other religion?

I wonder.

 

[The Irish Ram]

There is no 'Moslem genealogy', as there is no gene associated with that choice of belief. Arab, perhaps, or some national identity, but not for a religion.

Explain that to Sunni. He thinks Muslim's have a lock on the name Salem. Peter Salem sounds more like a Jewish/ Christian name to me.

Suni thinks:

One veteran of the battles of Concord and Bunker Hill was a freed slave named Peter Salem, who is alleged by some historians to have been Muslim, based on his last name, which is similar to the Arabic name Saleem.

You still don't get it, do you?

Our strict adherence to spelling did not exist in the 17th and 18th centuries, let alone transliterations from languages that don't use our alphabet. My own family name has at least six or seven variant spellings, meaning I am related to lots of people from those centuries who spelt their name differently. It's called vowel movement. Well not really, but that's what I call it.

The transliteration "Salem" is meaningless to take literally as if it means one thing if it's Salem and another if it's Salaam. Perhaps it slipped by you that one of the Van Salee brothers I mentioned was named "Abraham". That could be "Ibrahim"; it doesn't change his religion.

Once again, we don't need to go strictly by names; there's plenty of other evidence.

I get exactly what you say, and used the same explanation to point out to Sunni that the name Salem on a grave cannot be used to identify the person as Muslim just because it is SIMILAR to SALEEM.
Do you get it?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Sunni, what do you think about "insulting" Islam. Should there be an American law as well? What would you suggest the penalty be for someone that insults Islam?

Should we have a law to punish someone that insults Jews?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

And NO insulting Wiccans

or AGW Faithers, either.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And speaking of Salem... meet the Van Salee brothers.

>> Anthony and Abraham van Salee were the ancestors of the Vanderbilts, the Whitneys, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and Humphrey Bogart.

They were among the earliest arrivals to 17th century New Amsterdam. In a number of documents dating back to this period, they are both described as “mulatto”. From what scholars have been able to piece together about their background, they appear to have been the sons of a Dutch seafarer by the name of Jan Jansen who had “turned Turk” and become an admiral in the Moroccan navy. With the Port of Salee as the base from which it harried European shipping, references to the fleet he commanded are salted away in the old English sea shanties that are still sung about the Salee Rovers. The mother of his two sons was probably a concubine he had while trading in this part of the world before his conversion to Islam.

As a result of the anti-social behaviour of his white wife, Anthony van Salee was induced to leave the city precincts of lower Manhattan and move across the river, thus becoming the first settler of Brooklyn. Since Coney Island abutted his property, it was, until sometime in the last century, also referred to as “Turk’s Island”; the word, “Turk”, being a designation of his which the records used interchangeably with, “mulatto”. According to the documentation that people like Professor Leo Hershkowitz of Queens University have sifted through, it would seem that Anthony van Salee never converted to Christianity. His Koran, in fact, was in a descendant’s possession until about fifty years ago when, ignorant of its relevance to his family’s history, he offered it for sale at auction.
<< -- (The Van Salee Family - from "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous Families"; more at the link)

Other than to fan the flames of racial and religious suspicion and hatred, what the FUCK is your point

The FUCKing point is further refutation of the whole "Mayflower" song and dance, and its larger (can't say 'greater') pretext that Muslims had no bearing on America before Malcom X and Muhammad Ali. That's what the FUCK my point is. Had you read the context of this thread you might not have to ask what the FUCK the point is and look FUCKing stoopid suggesting a simple history lesson "fans flames of racial and religious suspicion and hatred". Doesn't happen in what we call 'normal' people.

You have a fine pleasant evening now, bless your heart. And next time read the background.

Duh.

Maybe in your closed mind.
And no, Muslims had no such influence. There is no record of of it.
Your argument is supposition. There is no proof. With no proof, it didn't happen.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Again, to be clear: Muslims (by and large) are fine folks, but their religion is pure perversion.

And not in a good or fun way.

That was funny.

 

[Pogo]

Other than to fan the flames of racial and religious suspicion and hatred, what the FUCK is your point

The FUCKing point is further refutation of the whole "Mayflower" song and dance, and its larger (can't say 'greater') pretext that Muslims had no bearing on America before Malcom X and Muhammad Ali. That's what the FUCK my point is. Had you read the context of this thread you might not have to ask what the FUCK the point is and look FUCKing stoopid suggesting a simple history lesson "fans flames of racial and religious suspicion and hatred". Doesn't happen in what we call 'normal' people.

You have a fine pleasant evening now, bless your heart. And next time read the background.

Duh.

Maybe in your closed mind.
And no, Muslims had no such influence. There is no record of of it.
Your argument is supposition. There is no proof. With no proof, it didn't happen.

Not in my mind-- in my links.
Again, the links are sitting there; they don't go away. And the more you post ignorant denialism with those links sitting right there, the more you look stoopid.

Incidentally if I had posted something like this:

multi culturalism( a term that was buried for good at the end of the 1990's) is neither successful for productive.
The day we as Americans canot disagree with or criticize an individual or group is the day this nation dies.
And please, do not mention violence. Islamist extremists use violence to get people to comply...Or the 'non believers' are to be killed.

... I'd think twice about suggesting somebody else had no point.

 

[Pogo]

Explain that to Sunni. He thinks Muslim's have a lock on the name Salem. Peter Salem sounds more like a Jewish/ Christian name to me.

Suni thinks:
[/COLOR]

You still don't get it, do you?

Our strict adherence to spelling did not exist in the 17th and 18th centuries, let alone transliterations from languages that don't use our alphabet. My own family name has at least six or seven variant spellings, meaning I am related to lots of people from those centuries who spelt their name differently. It's called vowel movement. Well not really, but that's what I call it.

The transliteration "Salem" is meaningless to take literally as if it means one thing if it's Salem and another if it's Salaam. Perhaps it slipped by you that one of the Van Salee brothers I mentioned was named "Abraham". That could be "Ibrahim"; it doesn't change his religion.

Once again, we don't need to go strictly by names; there's plenty of other evidence.

I get exactly what you say, and used the same explanation to point out to Sunni that the name Salem on a grave cannot be used to identify the person as Muslim just because it is SIMILAR to SALEEM.
Do you get it?

Did you or did you not post this:

Explain that to Sunni. He thinks Muslim's have a lock on the name Salem. Peter Salem sounds more like a Jewish/ Christian name to me.

?

OK then.

 

[Pogo]

If the Brits were to enact such a law at the behest of their indigenous Muslim population, would the Brits ALSO make it equally criminal to "insult" any other religion?

I wonder.

The whole concept of legislating against insult --of any religion-- would be absurd. But then look at the OP source article-- a blog from a Pakistani propaganda paper. Not exactly the stuff of legitimate news discourse. Hard to believe anyone would take this seriously, except in a quest to stir up the shit on a message board.

 

[Sunni Man]

Salem / Saleem or how ever you want to spell it.

Is a very common name among muslim men.

I have known several at the mosque. ..

 

[The Irish Ram]

I get exactly what you say, and used the same explanation to point out to Sunni that the name Salem on a grave cannot be used to identify the person as Muslim just because it is SIMILAR to SALEEM.
Do you get it?

Did you or did you not post this:

Explain that to Sunni. He thinks Muslim's have a lock on the name Salem. Peter Salem sounds more like a Jewish/ Christian name to me.

?

OK then.

Geeze, you're argumentative.
If Sunni thinks someone is Muslim based on the name Peter or Salem, I suggested the names could be something other than Muslim.
In other words:
Here lies Peter Salem.
Based on that^ information, Is Pete Muslim, Christian, Jew or Ethiopian?
Does either name clinch Muslim for you?
It doesn't for me either.
It seems to for Sunni.
Now do you get it?
And can we get back to the topic? I'm waiting for Sunni to answer my question about insulting Islam.

 

[Sunni Man]

Did you or did you not post this:


?

OK then.

Geeze, you're argumentative.
If Sunni thinks someone is Muslim based on the name Peter or Salem, I suggested the names could be something other than Muslim.
In other words:
Here lies Peter Salem.
Based on that^ information, Is Pete Muslim, Christian, Jew or Ethiopian? Does either name clinch Muslim for you?

I have known several muslims name Salem.

It is a very common first or last name among muslim men.

But I have never meet a Christian or a Jew named Salem.

Have you Irish Ram?? ..

 

[Coyote]

Thousands rally in UK to demand end to anti-Islam speeches - thenews.com.pk

Interesting the western media totally ignored this

Interesting.

The title of the thread says: British Muslims demand insulting Islam be outlawed

The article says:

The participants, who also travelled from several parts of European cities, were led in a peaceful and colourful mile-long march by Hazrat Peer Alauddin Siddiqui. This is the fourth consecutive gathering for the biggest Melaad-un-Nabi (PBUH) of British Pakistanis in Britain but this year it was dedicated to “protect the honour and legacy of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH)”. Speakers included interfaith leaders from Christian, Hindu, Sikh, and Jewish religions and parliamentarians from Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrats. Sardar Attique Khan, former Azad Kashmir prime minister, was the chief guest of the rally.

Hazrat Peer Alauddin Siddiqui, who is a renowned Sufi scholar, told Geo News: “Thousands have come together to show peacefully to the western world that the production and promotion of a recent film insulting Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has caused hurt to Muslims all over the world. We are a peaceful community and we will do everything to protect peace and respect for all on equal basis. It’s not fair that some people insult Islam everyday and preach hatred through their actions and words but the lack of legislation encourages such elements. We want to tell our government that we welcome debate and constructive criticism of our religion but insults are unacceptable and inflammatory language is contributing to the rise of extremism amongst youth in western countries where youth mistakenly believe that the West hates Islam and Muslims.”

Two things come to mind: they are peacefully protesting.

And, the type of rhetoric they are protesting against is typically called "hate speech" in some countries and is backed by such laws as "holocaust denial".

Peacefully protesting is good. So what's the issue?

 

[Pogo]

Did you or did you not post this:

Peter Salem sounds more like a Jewish/ Christian name to me.

?

OK then.

Geeze, you're argumentative.

Of course. I'm Irish.

If Sunni thinks someone is Muslim based on the name Peter or Salem, I suggested the names could be something other than Muslim.
In other words:
Here lies Peter Salem.
Based on that^ information, Is Pete Muslim, Christian, Jew or Ethiopian? Does either name clinch Muslim for you?
It doesn't for me either.
Now do you get it?
And can we get back to the topic? I'm waiting for Sunni to answer my question about insulting Islam.

Yeah I get it. You're nitpicking one name out of a paragraph of several, conveniently forgetting the sentence that follows it: "Other Continental soldiers with Islamic names include Salem Poor, Yusuf Ben Ali, Bampett Muhamed, Francis Saba and Joseph Saba." to make the same point --- all of which is a quote from somebody else anyway, which you then project onto the poster.

Whatever. You started this tangent with

As in Jeru-Salem?

-- which plainly makes no point, but seems to imply that because a city that's now in Israel has the suffix "Salem" in it, then it must be a Jewish name. So I called bullshit.

 

[Kondor3]

Heck, back in 17th and 18th century A.D. colonial America, blacks were given all sorts of oddball names, weren't they? Some of 'em were named after horses and farm-animal pets, some of 'em were named after figures from Classical Antiquity (Caesar, Hannibal, Cicero), some of 'em were named after figures from Arabian or Mongol or Asia-Indian or American Native history, some of 'em were named after place-names (Lincoln, Salem, Bethlehem), some of 'em were named after any ol' thing under the sun... my money is on a black named 'Salem' being named after Salem, Massachusetts or some-such. I seriously doubt that it was anything even remotely close to "Saleem" - no sale. Still - in the end, it's of little consequence, as is the microscopically small contribution of Islam to the founding of the United States.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Geeze, you're argumentative.
If Sunni thinks someone is Muslim based on the name Peter or Salem, I suggested the names could be something other than Muslim.
In other words:
Here lies Peter Salem.
Based on that^ information, Is Pete Muslim, Christian, Jew or Ethiopian? Does either name clinch Muslim for you?

I have known several muslims name Salem.

It is a very common first or last name among muslim men.

But I have never meet a Christian or a Jew named Salem.

Have you Irish Ram?? ..

You can friend them by the dozens on facebook.......
Pete, Mary Ann, Benjamin, Cody,

But back on topic Sunni,
Do you think we should also pass law regarding insulting of Islam? What should the punishment be if someone insults Islam or Mohammad?
Should we also punish those who insult Jews?

 

[Sunni Man]

But back on topic Sunni,
Do you think we should also pass law regarding insulting of Islam? What should the punishment be if someone insults Islam or Mohammad?
Should we also punish those who insult Jews?

You need to take your Christian hate some where else Irish Ram ..

 

[Coyote]

I have known several muslims name Salem.

It is a very common first or last name among muslim men.

But I have never meet a Christian or a Jew named Salem.

Have you Irish Ram?? ..

You can friend them by the dozens on facebook.......
Pete, Mary Ann, Benjamin, Cody,

But back on topic Sunni,
Do you think we should also pass law regarding insulting of Islam? What should the punishment be if someone insults Islam or Mohammad?
Should we also punish those who insult Jews?

Since your name is Irish Ram - are you an Irish citizen? Or American? In the US we would never pass such a law. Freedom of speech - even the most hateful moronic speech - is enshrined. Where the line is drawn is if it involves inciting a riot or libel or slander. I tend to agree with it to the extent that if it is not allowed, the hatred is driven underground and away from the light of truth. It also legitimizes the views of those people and allows them to portray themselves as victims.

Other countries do not have quite that freedom - for example holocaust denial is a crime in some European countries while in some Muslim countries insulting Mohammed is a crime. Neither of which I agree with.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Geeze, you're argumentative.

Of course. I'm Irish.




Yeah I get it. You're nitpicking one name out of a paragraph of several, conveniently forgetting the sentence that follows it: "Other Continental soldiers with Islamic names include Salem Poor, Yusuf Ben Ali, Bampett Muhamed, Francis Saba and Joseph Saba." to make the same point --- all of which is a quote from somebody else anyway, which you then project onto the poster.

Whatever. You started this tangent with

As in Jeru-Salem?

-- which plainly makes no point, but seems to imply that because a city that's now in Israel has the suffix "Salem" in it, then it must be a Jewish name. So I called bullshit.

I rarely get passed the first sentence of Sunni's posts before I have to correct something, so the first name I saw was Peter Salem.
My short tongue in cheek response was, "As in Jeru Salem?" Because that "city" in Israel was CALLED SALEM IN ANCIENT TIMES, you little Irish butthead.

It was the perfect example of how Salem does not fall into the category of Muslim exclusivity, if one has even the slightest knowledge of "the city" that's now in Israel.
I call your Bullshit and raise you to Sunni's level.