New Congressional Report on Fossil Fuel Industry Disinformation

[the watcher]

We need a Ministry of Truth, and maybe a Department of Deserves. DHS got ya covered on he facts. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ormation_regulation_docs_secret___150919.html

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're dissembling. I was looking at what the minimum length might be for the bump in the records the current situation will create. You were the one who has said it couldn't be seen and I'm telling you it could.

You can't show any 140-year periods 100,000 years ago, let alone 3 million.
Another Crick fail.

 

[Crick]

You can't show any 140-year periods 100,000 years ago, let alone 3 million.
Another Crick fail.

Do you believe that the current situation would only be visible for a 140 year span? That would require that global CO2, temperature, sea level, global ice mass and several other issues return to their pre-industrial values OVERNIGHT. Are you claiming that that's about to happen?

 

[Robert W]

Feel free to examine some of the evidence:

DENIAL, DISINFORMATION, AND DOUBLESPEAK:
BIG OIL'S EVOLVING EFFORTS TO AVOID ACCOUNTABILITY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE
​

JOINT STAFF REPORT
April 2024

April 30, 2024

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY​

• This joint staff report on Big Oil’s decades-long deception campaign is the culmination of a nearly three year-long investigation by the Democratic staff of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability (House Oversight), which has worked with Democratic staff of the Senate Budget Committee staff during the 118th Congress. The investigation, focused on ExxonMobil Corporation (Exxon), Chevron Corporation (Chevron), Shell USA Inc. (Shell), BP America Inc. (BP), the American Petroleum Institute (AI), and the Chamber of Commerce (the Chamber), provides a rare glimpse into the extensive efforts undertaken by fossil fuel companies to deceive the public and investors about their knowledge of the effects of their products on climate change and to undermine efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions.
• 
  
• This final joint staff report builds on the House Oversight Committee’s earlier hearings, public memoranda, and document releases, and it presents new findings from the investigation. The key findings include:
• 
  
• Documents demonstrate for the first time that fossil fuel companies internally do not dispute that they have understood since at least the 1960s that burning fossil fuels causes climate change and then worked for decades to undermine public understanding of this fact and to deny the underlying science. In fall 2015, blockbuster reporting by Inside Climate News and the Los Angeles Times revealed that Big Oil companies such as Exxon knew that burning fossil fuels was a major contributor to climate change. Companies publicly rejected the reporting at the time, but new documents corroborate the reporting and show that fossil fuel companies internally did not dispute the findings but tried to dismiss them as “hyperbolic” and “journalistic malpractice.”
• 
  
• Big Oil’s deception campaign evolved from explicit denial of the basic science underlying climate change to deception, disinformation, and doublespeak. The fossil fuel industry evolved from denying climate science to spreading disinformation and perpetuating doublespeak about the safety of natural gas and its commitment to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. New documents demonstrate that Big Oil companies:

• seek to position natural gas as a “bridge fuel” between coal and cleaner, renewable energy, while enmeshing natural gas in the U.S. energy economy for the long-term;
• 
  
• seek to portray natural gas as a green, climate-friendly fuel, while internally acknowledging that there is significant scientific evidence that the lifecycle emissions from gas are as bad as coal and are incompatible with scientific emissions reduction targets; April 30, 2024
• 
  
• make public pledges to support the Paris Agreement and to achieve net zero emissions while internally recognizing that they could not achieve those goals or referring to them as outside of their business plans;
• 
  
• privately lobby—either directly or through their trade associations— against pro-climate legislation and regulations that they publicly claimed to support;
• 
  
• publicly celebrate carbon capture technologies to help reduce harmful emissions while privately acknowledging that the technology is expensive and claiming that it cannot be scaled without federal government investment; and
• 
  
• publicly promoted algae-based biofuels as an innovative low-carbon technology while investing little in its research and development and then cancelling the programs entirely.

• The fossil fuel industry relies on trade associations to spread confusing and misleading narratives and to lobby against climate action. Fossil fuel companies use trade associations, think tanks, and other nonprofits to influence public policy proposals and messaging, including API and the Chamber, as well as the Oil and Gas Climate Initiative, Natural Gas Supply Association, and Western States Petroleum Association. New emails between fossil fuel executives and these groups demonstrate how the companies influenced and leveraged the associations and other organizations to control their messaging and use them to lobby for unpopular proposals that they do not want to be associated with.
• 
  
• The fossil fuel industry strategically partners with universities to lend an aura of credibility to its deception campaigns while also silencing opposition voices. Fossil fuel companies establish funded partnerships with academic institutions to enhance their credibility, shape academic research programs to provide studies supportive of a prolonged life for oil and gas, leverage the resulting research to their advantage, and bolster access to policymakers. New documents reveal previously unknown funding levels and show how companies condition their funding on academics’ cooperation and alignment with companies’ business needs. Additional documents demonstrate that companies actively tracked individuals and organizations critical of the industry and monitored their social media.
• 
  
• All six entities—Exxon, Chevron, Shell, BP, API, and the Chamber—obstructed and delayed the Committees’ investigation. Despite valid subpoenas, the entities refused to fully comply with the investigation, making baseless legal arguments and flouting longstanding congressional practices and norms for investigations. The companies further obstructed the investigation by significantly redacting or entirely withholding more than 4,000 documents without any valid basis.

https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/fossil_fuel_report1.pdf

So you think man controls climate!!!! That is nuts. Very nuts in fact. Do we do it on purpose? Here is a relevant fact. The Earth has far more humans now than it did in 1935. Then we had the massive dust bowl. And you think man controls dust bowls too? With very few cars on the road?

Back in the 1930s when Climate was a bad problem.

 

[Robert W]

"Fossil fuels" is disinformation.

Yes, I too learned by studying the book Called the Deep hot Biosphere that the name is wrong. My first understanding was back in 1966 working on a BART job that It struck me how could fossils get to 30,000 feet deep. Also how could they be found so deep in the ocean. I know of no sea animals that produce oil other than Whales and they don't get blamed.

 

[Robert W]

Feel free to examine some of the evidence:

DENIAL, DISINFORMATION, AND DOUBLESPEAK:
BIG OIL'S EVOLVING EFFORTS TO AVOID ACCOUNTABILITY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE
​

JOINT STAFF REPORT
April 2024

April 30, 2024

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY​

• This joint staff report on Big Oil’s decades-long deception campaign is the culmination of a nearly three year-long investigation by the Democratic staff of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability (House Oversight), which has worked with Democratic staff of the Senate Budget Committee staff during the 118th Congress. The investigation, focused on ExxonMobil Corporation (Exxon), Chevron Corporation (Chevron), Shell USA Inc. (Shell), BP America Inc. (BP), the American Petroleum Institute (AI), and the Chamber of Commerce (the Chamber), provides a rare glimpse into the extensive efforts undertaken by fossil fuel companies to deceive the public and investors about their knowledge of the effects of their products on climate change and to undermine efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions.
• 
  
• This final joint staff report builds on the House Oversight Committee’s earlier hearings, public memoranda, and document releases, and it presents new findings from the investigation. The key findings include:
• 
  
• Documents demonstrate for the first time that fossil fuel companies internally do not dispute that they have understood since at least the 1960s that burning fossil fuels causes climate change and then worked for decades to undermine public understanding of this fact and to deny the underlying science. In fall 2015, blockbuster reporting by Inside Climate News and the Los Angeles Times revealed that Big Oil companies such as Exxon knew that burning fossil fuels was a major contributor to climate change. Companies publicly rejected the reporting at the time, but new documents corroborate the reporting and show that fossil fuel companies internally did not dispute the findings but tried to dismiss them as “hyperbolic” and “journalistic malpractice.”
• 
  
• Big Oil’s deception campaign evolved from explicit denial of the basic science underlying climate change to deception, disinformation, and doublespeak. The fossil fuel industry evolved from denying climate science to spreading disinformation and perpetuating doublespeak about the safety of natural gas and its commitment to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. New documents demonstrate that Big Oil companies:

• seek to position natural gas as a “bridge fuel” between coal and cleaner, renewable energy, while enmeshing natural gas in the U.S. energy economy for the long-term;
• 
  
• seek to portray natural gas as a green, climate-friendly fuel, while internally acknowledging that there is significant scientific evidence that the lifecycle emissions from gas are as bad as coal and are incompatible with scientific emissions reduction targets; April 30, 2024
• 
  
• make public pledges to support the Paris Agreement and to achieve net zero emissions while internally recognizing that they could not achieve those goals or referring to them as outside of their business plans;
• 
  
• privately lobby—either directly or through their trade associations— against pro-climate legislation and regulations that they publicly claimed to support;
• 
  
• publicly celebrate carbon capture technologies to help reduce harmful emissions while privately acknowledging that the technology is expensive and claiming that it cannot be scaled without federal government investment; and
• 
  
• publicly promoted algae-based biofuels as an innovative low-carbon technology while investing little in its research and development and then cancelling the programs entirely.

• The fossil fuel industry relies on trade associations to spread confusing and misleading narratives and to lobby against climate action. Fossil fuel companies use trade associations, think tanks, and other nonprofits to influence public policy proposals and messaging, including API and the Chamber, as well as the Oil and Gas Climate Initiative, Natural Gas Supply Association, and Western States Petroleum Association. New emails between fossil fuel executives and these groups demonstrate how the companies influenced and leveraged the associations and other organizations to control their messaging and use them to lobby for unpopular proposals that they do not want to be associated with.
• 
  
• The fossil fuel industry strategically partners with universities to lend an aura of credibility to its deception campaigns while also silencing opposition voices. Fossil fuel companies establish funded partnerships with academic institutions to enhance their credibility, shape academic research programs to provide studies supportive of a prolonged life for oil and gas, leverage the resulting research to their advantage, and bolster access to policymakers. New documents reveal previously unknown funding levels and show how companies condition their funding on academics’ cooperation and alignment with companies’ business needs. Additional documents demonstrate that companies actively tracked individuals and organizations critical of the industry and monitored their social media.
• 
  
• All six entities—Exxon, Chevron, Shell, BP, API, and the Chamber—obstructed and delayed the Committees’ investigation. Despite valid subpoenas, the entities refused to fully comply with the investigation, making baseless legal arguments and flouting longstanding congressional practices and norms for investigations. The companies further obstructed the investigation by significantly redacting or entirely withholding more than 4,000 documents without any valid basis.

https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/fossil_fuel_report1.pdf

Climate amounts to 30 or more years and not several warm years. We would know a lot about climate change by what took place in 1913 at Death Valley and later in the Eastern US in what is called the great dust storms of 1933 to 1939. Why didn't science tell us all about this way back then?

 

[Robert W]

This wasn't "the far left", it was produced by the staff of a broad range of democratic senators and representatives. If you don't accept these results, why don't you tell us why? How about an examination of the facts? A great deal of this is based on the testimony of executives and employees of the listed fossil fuel companies. Were they all lying to make themselves look bad?

Why do Democrats always object to Nuclear fuel? It is not a so called fossil fuel. It works very well and produces steam.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Do you believe that the current situation would only be visible for a 140 year span? That would require that global CO2, temperature, sea level, global ice mass and several other issues return to their pre-industrial values OVERNIGHT. Are you claiming that that's about to happen?

Do you believe that the current situation would only be visible for a 140 year span?

You have no 140-year period temperatures from 100,000 years ago? Or 1,000,000 years ago?

 

[Robert W]

This joint staff report on Big Oil’s decades-long deception campaign is the culmination of a nearly three year-long investigation by the Democratic staff of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability (House Oversight), which has worked with Democratic staff of the Senate Budget Committee staff during the 118th Congress.

1. Royal Dutch Shell PLC​

Shell has aimed to spend $2–$3 billion a year on its Renewables and New Energy Solutions (formerly New Energies) division that it started in 2016.2


Shell is looking for ways to create energy by decarbonizing and focusing on electricity. In 2019, Shell started offering all of its British residential customers 100% renewable electricity. This means that for every unit of electricity used, another unit is placed back into the grid by renewable generators.3


In 2018, Shell invested in the U.S. firm Inspire Energy, which provides clean energy plans in certain states. It also purchased Greenlots, which is a startup focused on charging solutions for electric vehicles. In 2019, Shell purchased German firm Sonnen, a large home battery manufacturer and the creator of an electric vehicle charging system. Sonnen is also one of Tesla's (TSLA) biggest rivals.4


Other than clean electricity, Shell has made significant investments in the solar energy sphere. It purchased stakes in Sunseap Group, a Singapore-based solar company; Silicon Ranch, a U.S. solar firm; and has Greenfield solar and storage in development.5

Shell. "Shell Energy. Renewable Solutions."

 

[Robert W]

Coward. You can't answer the question and everyone here knows it. Anyone denying the greenhouse effect is an ignorant fool. That would be you.

The Greenhouse effect was truly doing harm way back in 1913 when death Valley, CA set heat records. It harmed the USA in the 1930s and caused the Dust Bowl. But neither lasted much time. Bet you now learned something new.

 

[Crick]

Todd, you apparently didn't read my response to you several posts back.

Like what?


Ice cores collected in polar or other glaciated regions offer unique records of past climate. Deep ice cores collected in Greenland (GISP2 and GRIP) and in Antarctica (e.g., Vostok, Byrd, Siple Dome, Taylor Dome, Dome C, Berkner Island, Dome Fuji) provide climate records for as much as 100,000-400,000 years of earth’s history at annual to decadal to multi-decadal resolution.

Bureau Staff - Nelia W. Dunbar: Volcanic record in Antarctic ice

geoinfo.nmt.edu

No, you're not. Under an absolute best case scenario we could stop warming after 170-200 years. But if you want temperatures to return to pre-industrial levels in the same amount of time, you're going to have to actively remove CO2 from the atmosphere; remember its long lifespan in the atmosphere. So you're looking for a bump of at least 400 years duration. The info above tells us that we easily have that resolultion well beyond 400,000 years. And since nothing short of a major asteroid strike (which would leave other evidence) could put CO2 into the atmosphere as quickly as we have and NO KNOWN natural process could remove it at similar rates, you're wishful thinking is just that. Stop lying to yourself Todd.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd, you apparently didn't read my response to you several posts back.

Unless they said something about resolution down to the 140-year level, they don't help your claim.

Did they?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd, you apparently didn't read my response to you several posts back.

Berlin-derived tephra layers are found at depths of 550, 600, 703, 707, 733, 735, 746, 748, 749, 751, 758/760, 778, 786, 809, 812, 911, 951, and 985 meters in the Siple Dome core. Of these, the layers that correlate to the best-dated eruptions of Mt. Berlin include the layer at 550 meters which probably correlates to the last activity of Mt. Berlin at 10.3±2.7 ka and the layers at 758 and 760 m which correlate to an eruption which has been dated twice (27.3±2.3 and 24.7±1.5 ka

Is this some of your evidence?
Besides the multiple-1000-year uncertainties, where are the temperature figures?

 

[Robert W]

Todd, you apparently didn't read my response to you several posts back.

Crick, how ashamed of yourself and your whole family when you blame them and yourself?

I do not recall you alleging man controls climate. Do you plan to assert this?

 

[Crick]

Crick, how ashamed of yourself and your whole family when you blame them and yourself?

I do not recall you alleging man controls climate. Do you plan to assert this?

Robert, you don't seem to have the faintest idea what anyone here is actually talking about. Given that, I don't think there's much point in you attempting to get involved in the conversation.

 

[Crick]

Unless they said something about resolution down to the 140-year level, they don't help your claim.

Did they?

"These rates of CO2 increase are among the most rapid seen in the ice core record, yet still about an order of magnitude slower than the current rate of anthropogenic CO2 rise (38)."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319652121

 

[ding]

"These rates of CO2 increase are among the most rapid seen in the ice core record, yet still about an order of magnitude slower than the current rate of anthropogenic CO2 rise (38)."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319652121

Yes. That's because after the industrial revolution atmospheric CO2 is a function of emissions and not temperature like it was before the industrial revolution.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"These rates of CO2 increase are among the most rapid seen in the ice core record, yet still about an order of magnitude slower than the current rate of anthropogenic CO2 rise (38)."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2319652121

For the Nth time, I don't give a fuck about the rate of increase of CO2.
Show me that the temperature increase is the fastest in 3 million years.

 

[Crick]

Yes. That's because after the industrial revolution atmospheric CO2 is a function of emissions and not temperature like it was before the industrial revolution.

Yes, and it is taking place ten times faster than during Heinrich events, supporting my contention that the rate of CO2 and temperature increase is unprecedented in at least 3 million years.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

supporting my contention that the rate of CO2 and temperature increase is unprecedented in at least 3 million years.

that the rate of (CO2 and) temperature increase is unprecedented in at least 3 million years.

Post the top ten temperature increases in at least 3 million years.