Bible criticism

[hobelim]

their interpretations and nothing etched is stone, now you know why.

So he drove the man out and to the east of Eden he placed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword that turns in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life."

 

[BreezeWood]

their interpretations and nothing etched is stone, now you know why.

So he drove the man out and to the east of Eden he placed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword that turns in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life."

.

So he drove the man out and to the east of Eden he placed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword that turns in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life."

So he (they) drove the man out and to the east of Eden he (they) placed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword that turns in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.


you're a funny one hoby, admittedly what your post reflects in reference to not being etched in stone is a little baffling as it also is not so etched but what is funny is your recognition the trinity as one is Idolatry without recognizing the bible's content itself is Idolatrous when referenced to any of the three desert religions that wrote it.

what is your reference ?

.

 

[Clement]

I love it when these people who don't know a word of Hebrew or Greek (much less Hebrew poetry) butcher one of the the English versions and think they have done something.

I love it when people think you have to understand Hebrew or Greek to understand the Bible.

People who think they understand the Bible without any education in the languages and the cultures who wrote it - atheist or religious have caused most of the world's problems.

What on earth makes you think that people who don't speak Hebrew or Greek have no education?

Your comment is a trite, stale ad hom. It's akin to saying "How dare you voice an opinion about an airplane line without a thorough understanding of quantum physics!" Yes, you can understand the Bible without being well versed in Aramaic, in Greek, or Hebrew. It has been around for a really long time, and we have a lot of good information from a lot of people who do have expertise in those languages.

It's the RIGHT education you need. If I had a nickel for every self professed jackleg theologian I've met I would be rich, and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance. And every one of them claims to have the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on their side.

So...unless you have the humility to call yourself a servant instead of a master, a student instead of a teacher, or a follower rather than a leader, you are not fit to claim to know scripture any more than anybody else, because you don't get it.

In other words, if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

.

and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance.

- clue, it all comes from the same source - your book ...

Only in your dreams.

 

[Clement]

I love it when these people who don't know a word of Hebrew or Greek (much less Hebrew poetry) butcher one of the the English versions and think they have done something.

I love it when people think you have to understand Hebrew or Greek to understand the Bible.

People who think they understand the Bible without any education in the languages and the cultures who wrote it - atheist or religious have caused most of the world's problems.

What on earth makes you think that people who don't speak Hebrew or Greek have no education?

Your comment is a trite, stale ad hom. It's akin to saying "How dare you voice an opinion about an airplane line without a thorough understanding of quantum physics!" Yes, you can understand the Bible without being well versed in Aramaic, in Greek, or Hebrew. It has been around for a really long time, and we have a lot of good information from a lot of people who do have expertise in those languages.

It's the RIGHT education you need. If I had a nickel for every self professed jackleg theologian I've met I would be rich, and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance. And every one of them claims to have the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on their side.

So...unless you have the humility to call yourself a servant instead of a master, a student instead of a teacher, or a follower rather than a leader, you are not fit to claim to know scripture any more than anybody else, because you don't get it.

In other words, if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

.

and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance.

- clue, it all comes from the same source - your book ...

Only in your dreams, chuckles.

... if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

their interpretations and nothing etched is stone, now you know why.

Which is only your opinion, and neither here nor there. You are clearly one of the bomb throwers I was talking about earlier, blaming everybody else for your problems.

 

[koshergrl]

I love it when people think you have to understand Hebrew or Greek to understand the Bible.

People who think they understand the Bible without any education in the languages and the cultures who wrote it - atheist or religious have caused most of the world's problems.

What on earth makes you think that people who don't speak Hebrew or Greek have no education?

Your comment is a trite, stale ad hom. It's akin to saying "How dare you voice an opinion about an airplane line without a thorough understanding of quantum physics!" Yes, you can understand the Bible without being well versed in Aramaic, in Greek, or Hebrew. It has been around for a really long time, and we have a lot of good information from a lot of people who do have expertise in those languages.

It's the RIGHT education you need. If I had a nickel for every self professed jackleg theologian I've met I would be rich, and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance. And every one of them claims to have the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on their side.

So...unless you have the humility to call yourself a servant instead of a master, a student instead of a teacher, or a follower rather than a leader, you are not fit to claim to know scripture any more than anybody else, because you don't get it.

In other words, if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

.

and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance.

- clue, it all comes from the same source - your book ...

Only in your dreams, chuckles.

... if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

their interpretations and nothing etched is stone, now you know why.

Which is only your opinion, and neither here nor there. You are clearly one of the bomb throwers I was talking about earlier, blaming everybody else for your problems.

For the life of me I can't figure out who is saying what here....

 

[BreezeWood]

People who think they understand the Bible without any education in the languages and the cultures who wrote it - atheist or religious have caused most of the world's problems.

What on earth makes you think that people who don't speak Hebrew or Greek have no education?

Your comment is a trite, stale ad hom. It's akin to saying "How dare you voice an opinion about an airplane line without a thorough understanding of quantum physics!" Yes, you can understand the Bible without being well versed in Aramaic, in Greek, or Hebrew. It has been around for a really long time, and we have a lot of good information from a lot of people who do have expertise in those languages.

It's the RIGHT education you need. If I had a nickel for every self professed jackleg theologian I've met I would be rich, and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance. And every one of them claims to have the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on their side.

So...unless you have the humility to call yourself a servant instead of a master, a student instead of a teacher, or a follower rather than a leader, you are not fit to claim to know scripture any more than anybody else, because you don't get it.

In other words, if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

.

and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance.

- clue, it all comes from the same source - your book ...

Only in your dreams, chuckles.

... if you don't know the cultures or languages you should be listening instead of talking.

their interpretations and nothing etched is stone, now you know why.

Which is only your opinion, and neither here nor there. You are clearly one of the bomb throwers I was talking about earlier, blaming everybody else for your problems.

For the life of me I can't figure out who is saying what here....

.

For the life of me I can't figure out who is saying what here....

Clements responses were inside the quote ....
..........................


CLEM - and it is those very same people who sow discord, hatred, and ignorance.

BW - clue, it all comes from the same source - your book ...

CLEM - Only in your dreams, chuckles.

...........

BW - their interpretations and nothing etched in stone, now you know why.

CLEM - Which is only your opinion, and neither here nor there. You are clearly one of the bomb throwers I was talking about earlier, blaming everybody else for your problems.

...........



how can it neither be here nor there when there is no verification for the source for "your" opinion ... bomb thrower, blamer of others.

.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah I still can't figure out what you guys are saying.
Adios.

 

[Clement]

Yeah I still can't figure out what you guys are saying.
Adios.

Let me clear it up for you, Breezewood is saying that scripture means whatever you want it to mean, because he needs it to mean what he wants it to mean so he can twist it for his own purposes. In reality, scripture was written for a specific audience and had a specific meaning for that audience. Our job is to learn what that meaning was in order to apply it in our own century.

To do otherwise is anachronistic.

 

[hobelim]

Let me clear it up for you, Breezewood is saying that scripture means whatever you want it to mean, because he needs it to mean what he wants it to mean so he can twist it for his own purposes. In reality, scripture was written for a specific audience and had a specific meaning for that audience. Our job is to learn what that meaning was in order to apply it in our own century.

How do you reconcile that approach to scripture, which sounds intelligent, with getting down on your knees before a lifeless god made man made matzo made by human hands that you worship and eat for spiritual life, which sounds rather stupid?


Do you think anyone should have been doing this ever? Worshipping the work of human hands for spiritual life? Even now in this century?

okey dokey.....

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah I still can't figure out what you guys are saying.
Adios.

Let me clear it up for you, Breezewood is saying that scripture means whatever you want it to mean, because he needs it to mean what he wants it to mean so he can twist it for his own purposes. In reality, scripture was written for a specific audience and had a specific meaning for that audience. Our job is to learn what that meaning was in order to apply it in our own century.

To do otherwise is anachronistic.

The word of God is imbued with the Holy Spirit. We cannot on our own "learn" the meaning by just learning the original languages in which it was written. We learn the meaning by applying ourselves to it in ANY language, and God grants enlightenment through the Holy Spirit, regardless of what the language is.

If you don't understand that, if you think understanding is solely based on human understanding through intellectualism, then you are one of the lost. Sorry.

 

[Clement]

Yeah I still can't figure out what you guys are saying.
Adios.

Let me clear it up for you, Breezewood is saying that scripture means whatever you want it to mean, because he needs it to mean what he wants it to mean so he can twist it for his own purposes. In reality, scripture was written for a specific audience and had a specific meaning for that audience. Our job is to learn what that meaning was in order to apply it in our own century.

To do otherwise is anachronistic.

The word of God is imbued with the Holy Spirit. We cannot on our own "learn" the meaning by just learning the original languages in which it was written. We learn the meaning by applying ourselves to it in ANY language, and God grants enlightenment through the Holy Spirit, regardless of what the language is.

If you don't understand that, if you think understanding is solely based on human understanding through intellectualism, then you are one of the lost. Sorry.

Number one, what makes you think that I don't have the Holy Spirit and you do? I don't trust anybody who claims to have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit, the guy who shot John Lennon thought God told him to do it. Just about every heretic in history thought they had the HS on their side. So called Christians think their hatred for their fellow Christians is from the Holy Spirit. If you can't prove what you are saying with sound exegesis from the scriptures then you can keep it. You can't make the scriptures say something they just don't say and claim the Holy Spirit told you.

 

[hobelim]

Number one, what makes you think that I don't have the Holy Spirit and you do? I don't trust anybody who claims to have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit, the guy who shot John Lennon thought God told him to do it. Just about every heretic in history thought they had the HS on their side. So called Christians think their hatred for their fellow Christians is from the Holy Spirit. If you can't prove what you are saying with sound exegesis from the scriptures then you can keep it. You can't make the scriptures say something they just don't say and claim the Holy Spirit told you.

One question.

If what both of you profess to believe is the holy spirit, the Advocate, the comforter, Paraclete, - an invisible spirit of the triune god - appeared at pentecost thousands of years ago how is it that what you imagine to be the holy spirit has not done even one single thing that Jesus said the Spirit of truth would do when he came? John 16:7-15

 

[RWNJ]

I am tired of reading all the bible thumping threads telling us the bible is the word of God, and we will burn in hell if we do not believe it. So here is a thread to dismantle the bible and prove it cannot be from God, and it has not been preserved unchanged.
I will be posting many links and doing some cut and paste jobs, because I am no bible expert, but I know a lot of work has been done on this by others.

The first point I would like to raise is the age of Noah and other so called prophets. The bible says Noah lived to be 950 years old, but I read somewhere that this is now believed to be a mistake in the translation of the numbers from an early bible, by a scribe that did not understand the numbering system.
I will research this and post links.

To be going on with here are a couple of links to critical pages.

Bible Babble - The Holy Bible and it's Errors, Contradictions, and so on.

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

FYI, Our DNA contains the genes necessary for the production of vitamin C. The problem is that one of those genes is not working. Scientists tell us that if these genes were operational, it could greatly increase our lifespan, since free radicals are largely responsible for the aging process and cellular damage. There is also the possibility that the firmament, in Genesis, was actually a canopy of water surrounding the Earth. This would have greatly reduced cosmic radiation, also responsible for aging and cellular damage. Also, consider that our genome has suffered many mutations over the millennial since the time of Noah. There is also the simple fact that the lifespan is reduced with each generation in the Biblical Genealogies. What does this tell you? It tells me that mutations, and changes in the environment have had a significant impact on our longevity.

 

[presonorek]

According to the bible Adam lived to be 930 years old. But who could really believe in the bible myth of Adam and Eve? Well I guess we have a few on this forum.

According to your thinking how old is the earth? I see on a bible site they think it is only six thousand years.

People will still be reading and analyzing the Bible 930 years from now. Nobody cares whether it is accurate or not. It will still be preserved. Go ahead and make a point which has been made by tens of thousands of people. I don't see how it will accomplish anything. People will still be reading and analyzing the Bible long after both of us are dead. What do you plan to accomplish?

 

[presonorek]

Of course Noah lived to 950. Prior the flood the earth was covered in clouds, which is stated in the Bible and supported by scientific environmental theories. It blocked the Suns radiation. Factor in the gene pool getting more and more corrupt with every copy made, it makes sense. Fits right into the ages of people written through the thousands of years the letters of the Bible were written.

So people five thousand years ago lived to nearly a thousand years old. Well how come there is no record of Egyptian pharaohs living to even one hundred years.

Egyptian pharaohs existed long after the flood, long after the Tower of Babel.

But, but , but. The bible account of the flood is surely bunk. Nobody believes it really happened do they?
In those times a local flood would have seemed to be the whole earth to people who thought it was flat.

I have a copy of the oldest book ever written, 'The epic of Gilgamesh' and it talks of a great flood too.

Is the Epic of Gilgamesh true?

 

[Dajjal]

Of course Noah lived to 950. Prior the flood the earth was covered in clouds, which is stated in the Bible and supported by scientific environmental theories. It blocked the Suns radiation. Factor in the gene pool getting more and more corrupt with every copy made, it makes sense. Fits right into the ages of people written through the thousands of years the letters of the Bible were written.

So people five thousand years ago lived to nearly a thousand years old. Well how come there is no record of Egyptian pharaohs living to even one hundred years.

Egyptian pharaohs existed long after the flood, long after the Tower of Babel.

But, but , but. The bible account of the flood is surely bunk. Nobody believes it really happened do they?
In those times a local flood would have seemed to be the whole earth to people who thought it was flat.

I have a copy of the oldest book ever written, 'The epic of Gilgamesh' and it talks of a great flood too.

Is the Epic of Gilgamesh true?

The epic of Gilgamesh is a fiction story that reads like a modern novel apart from its repetitive style. It is about the search for immortality.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The biggest question is if there is anything that would make you believe?

If the answer is yes, what?
If the answer is no, you have a closed mind and are a waste of time.

Believe what, the bunk in the old testament? That says the world is flat and its six thousand years old and Jonah was swallowed by a whale, etc, etc. I hardly think so.

Your ignorance shows and I suggest you learn.

From Job written about 5,000 years ago:
He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.
This explains that the Earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon.

Job and Isaiah both show the world to be round. The Hebrew word for “circle” can also mean “round” or “sphere.”

He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.

So I will ask again, do you wish to remain ignorant or do you wish to learn?

 

[presonorek]

The epic of Gilgamesh is a fiction story

Let me see if I understand.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is fiction. The Epic of Gilgamesh is good.

The Bible is fiction. The Bible is bad.

What logic did you apply to come to that conclusion? All books that last 400 years or more are in the same category. Labeling ancient literature as defective in anyway is bold but stupid. There are reasons why some literature survive and most literature is forgotten. Do you care to take a stab at why that is? I'll give you a hint, it probably isn't because they suck.

 

[Dajjal]

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.

A circle is not a sphere. The bible probably means a flat circular disk.

 

[Dajjal]

The epic of Gilgamesh is a fiction story

Let me see if I understand.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is fiction. The Epic of Gilgamesh is good.

The Bible is fiction. The Bible is bad.

What logic did you apply to come to that conclusion? All books that last 400 years or more are in the same category. Labeling ancient literature as defective in anyway is bold but stupid. There are reasons why some literature survive and most literature is forgotten. Do you care to take a stab at why that is? I'll give you a hint, it probably isn't because they suck.

The epic of Gilgamesh survived because it was written on stone tablets long before the bible.