Be Honest: There is only one real reason to need to carry a gun.

[Oddball]

Because you have this almost pathological insistance that everybody should be left alone to do what they want no matter what. To which I say 'phooey'. Couple of things - humans are, in the main, sociable creatures. Some aren't (you would prolly fit the category), but most of us realise in order to get on in this world, there needs to be cooperation. Cooperation leads to towns having councils, countys having some form of govt, ditto states and countries. Us normal folk realised a long time ago, that for a civilised society to work you need to be a land of laws.

You seem to think that any law that infringes on an individuals 'freedom' (whatever that is, and how you definite it would be interesting) is bad. Well, some aren't. Some are. If people could be trusted to do the right thing all the time, we wouldn't need laws. They can't, so we do. Suck it up. And if you don't like it, go live on an island - you will be answerable to no one and you can do whatever the fuck you like.

Second thing - when people get together and decide on an idea, that might even include sharing something (OMG!!!!), it's not necessarily socialism or communism. Maybe it's just communities getting along...

IOW, it's none of your business, but you're going to make it so, at gunpoint if necessary.

Nothing like good, honest, paternalistic know-it-all tribalism on full display...Bravo.

Not all all. You have missed the substance of the post (either it has passed you by, have diliberately ignored it, or you are cynically pushing it under the carpet). I am not putting a gun to anybody's head. I just realise that all decent societies need the rule of law. Now, what those laws are, and how they should be enacted - that's the crux. You seem to think that anything that doesn't encroach on anybody else should not be a law. I say BS. There are plenty of examples where that is patently untrue.

I hit the substance right on the head.

Laws, by definition, are the initiation of force....Guess what happens if you ignore the laws long enough?...Eventually, someone with a gun strapped to him, with authorization to use it, is going to come looking for you.

Yours is a paternalistic, tribalistic, knuckle-dragging "social" (for lack of a better term) philosophy that rules at the point of a gun, plain and simple.

 

[LoneLaugher]

EXCUSE ME.. I have never been anyone but myself.. ARE YOU ACCUSING ME OF SOMETHING OLD MAN?

Well you told me to dig a little deeper. By that I thought you meant you had been around before (KG is on her third nick) because you gave the impression that you joined before Feb 2011. Because if you did join in Feb 2011 you are a Newb to me...

Ok, fair enough.. Sorry I got snippy with you.

I know...that is so out of character for you.

 

[Dr Grump]

I hit the substance right on the head.

Laws, by definition, are the initiation of force....Guess what happens if you ignore the laws long enough?...Eventually, someone with a gun strapped to him, with authorization to use it, is going to come looking for you.

Yours is a paternalistic, tribalistic, knuckle-dragging "social" (for lack of a better term) philosophy that rules at the point of a gun, plain and simple.

No, they are not the initiation of force. No wonder your train of thought is so warped. Laws are, in the main, instigated by the people. In the US it is a little different because you have those god-awful lobby groups...

However, what we have down here are - in the main - is the will of the people. Don't like a law? Make it a plank for the next election and get the pollies thrown out who won't support it. But if they have enough support, then that is the will of the people. That's how a society works.

And yours is a "it's all about me" egocentric 'society' where the lowest common denominator is that the guy with the biggest gun wins (you may not think that, but that will be the logical outcome in the long run for your ideal society)...

 

[Oddball]

I hit the substance right on the head.

Laws, by definition, are the initiation of force....Guess what happens if you ignore the laws long enough?...Eventually, someone with a gun strapped to him, with authorization to use it, is going to come looking for you.

Yours is a paternalistic, tribalistic, knuckle-dragging "social" (for lack of a better term) philosophy that rules at the point of a gun, plain and simple.

No, they are not the initiation of force. No wonder your train of thought is so warped. Laws are, in the main, instigated by the people. In the US it is a little different because you have those god-awful lobby groups...

However, what we have down here are - in the main - is the will of the people. Don't like a law? Make it a plank for the next election and get the pollies thrown out who won't support it. But if they have enough support, then that is the will of the people. That's how a society works.

And yours is a "it's all about me" egocentric 'society' where the lowest common denominator is that the guy with the biggest gun wins (you may not think that, but that will be the logical outcome in the long run for your ideal society)...

Right...The will of the people as enforced at gunpoint, if necessary.

No wonder you paranoid tribalistic freaks want to take away all the guns away from the free law abiding people.

 

[Katzndogz]

Someone dropped in a jungle filled with animals armed with fang and claw would rightly be afraid. They need protection at least equal to what the predators have. Inasmuch as present day American culture is not all that different from a jungle, fear is a rational motivating force.

 

[Dr Grump]

Right...The will of the people as enforced at gunpoint, if necessary.

No wonder you paranoid tribalistic freaks want to take away all the guns away from the free law abiding people.

Where have I mentioned gunpoint? A law is a law is a law? If it's a good law, it usually sticks around (murder, burglarly theft), if it's a bad law it eventually goes (slavery, prohibition).

The huge problem with your mindset is that you honestly believe there can be this kind of libertarian Utopia. Never going to happen. Why? Because humans are what we are. Can you name one society that would fall into your Utopia that has ever existed? That still exists?

Your starting point is so unattainable, and so unrealistic, that it forces you to be a cynic who can only grumble and moan about society.

As mentioned, what you need to do is go and live on a island where you can be your own benevolent dictator to yourself....

 

[Ringel05]

I hit the substance right on the head.

Laws, by definition, are the initiation of force....Guess what happens if you ignore the laws long enough?...Eventually, someone with a gun strapped to him, with authorization to use it, is going to come looking for you.

Yours is a paternalistic, tribalistic, knuckle-dragging "social" (for lack of a better term) philosophy that rules at the point of a gun, plain and simple.

No, they are not the initiation of force. No wonder your train of thought is so warped. Laws are, in the main, instigated by the people. In the US it is a little different because you have those god-awful lobby groups...

However, what we have down here are - in the main - is the will of the people. Don't like a law? Make it a plank for the next election and get the pollies thrown out who won't support it. But if they have enough support, then that is the will of the people. That's how a society works.

And yours is a "it's all about me" egocentric 'society' where the lowest common denominator is that the guy with the biggest gun wins (you may not think that, but that will be the logical outcome in the long run for your ideal society)...

What a load of fallacious psychobabble.

 

[Oddball]

Right...The will of the people as enforced at gunpoint, if necessary.

No wonder you paranoid tribalistic freaks want to take away all the guns away from the free law abiding people.

Where have I mentioned gunpoint? A law is a law is a law? If it's a good law, it usually sticks around (murder, burglarly theft), if it's a bad law it eventually goes (slavery, prohibition).

The huge problem with your mindset is that you honestly believe there can be this kind of libertarian Utopia. Never going to happen. Why? Because humans are what we are. Can you name one society that would fall into your Utopia that has ever existed? That still exists?

Your starting point is so unattainable, and so unrealistic, that it forces you to be a cynic who can only grumble and moan about society.

As mentioned, what you need to do is go and live on a island where you can be your own benevolent dictator to yourself....

The only Utopians here are the schmucks like you who foolishly believe that all we have to do is pass the right laws and everything will be peace, flowers and love beads, and invoke stale old bullshit cliches like "go live on an island if you don't like it"...As though the might of the biggest mob makes right.

Laws have to be enforced....How do you propose enforcing laws when people refuse to comply with them, sending engraved invitations and saying "pretty please with sugar on top"?

 

[uscitizen]

Goose you left out the real reason why they carry a gun.

To repel the mongrel hordes from Washington.

 

[Dr Grump]

Right...The will of the people as enforced at gunpoint, if necessary.

No wonder you paranoid tribalistic freaks want to take away all the guns away from the free law abiding people.

Where have I mentioned gunpoint? A law is a law is a law? If it's a good law, it usually sticks around (murder, burglarly theft), if it's a bad law it eventually goes (slavery, prohibition).

The huge problem with your mindset is that you honestly believe there can be this kind of libertarian Utopia. Never going to happen. Why? Because humans are what we are. Can you name one society that would fall into your Utopia that has ever existed? That still exists?

Your starting point is so unattainable, and so unrealistic, that it forces you to be a cynic who can only grumble and moan about society.

As mentioned, what you need to do is go and live on a island where you can be your own benevolent dictator to yourself....

The only Utopians here are the schmucks like you who foolishly believe that all we have to do is pass the right laws and everything will be peace, flowers and love beads, and invoke stale old bullshit cliches like "go live on an island if you don't like it"...As though the might of the biggest mob makes right.

Laws have to be enforced....How do you propose enforcing laws when people refuse to comply with them, sending engraved invitations and saying "pretty please with sugar on top"?

No, I don't believe that at all. I believe laws need working on, restructuring, refining or expanding where necessary. Even repealed where they are no longer valid.

Er, no, I expect laws to be enforced via the courts and their officers.

You want a land of no laws?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

No, I don't believe that at all. I believe laws need working on, restructuring, refining or expanding where necessary. Even repealed where they are no longer valid.

Er, no, I expect laws to be enforced via the courts and their officers.

You want a land of no laws?

We are a land of laws. One of those laws is every citizen has a right to bear arms. You don't seem to like that one but that's your problem to live with. Most of us have no intention of giving that up.

 

[Oddball]

Where have I mentioned gunpoint? A law is a law is a law? If it's a good law, it usually sticks around (murder, burglarly theft), if it's a bad law it eventually goes (slavery, prohibition).

The huge problem with your mindset is that you honestly believe there can be this kind of libertarian Utopia. Never going to happen. Why? Because humans are what we are. Can you name one society that would fall into your Utopia that has ever existed? That still exists?

Your starting point is so unattainable, and so unrealistic, that it forces you to be a cynic who can only grumble and moan about society.

As mentioned, what you need to do is go and live on a island where you can be your own benevolent dictator to yourself....

The only Utopians here are the schmucks like you who foolishly believe that all we have to do is pass the right laws and everything will be peace, flowers and love beads, and invoke stale old bullshit cliches like "go live on an island if you don't like it"...As though the might of the biggest mob makes right.

Laws have to be enforced....How do you propose enforcing laws when people refuse to comply with them, sending engraved invitations and saying "pretty please with sugar on top"?

No, I don't believe that at all. I believe laws need working on, restructuring, refining or expanding where necessary. Even repealed where they are no longer valid.

Er, no, I expect laws to be enforced via the courts and their officers.

What do those officers carry, to "persuade" the non-compliant?

You want a land of no laws?

Irrelevant, façile-minded question, undignified of any response other than to point out what an utterly irrelevant and façile-minded question it is.

 

[Dr Grump]

No, I don't believe that at all. I believe laws need working on, restructuring, refining or expanding where necessary. Even repealed where they are no longer valid.

Er, no, I expect laws to be enforced via the courts and their officers.

You want a land of no laws?

We are a land of laws. One of those laws is every citizen has a right to bear arms. You don't seem to like that one but that's your problem to live with. Most of us have no intention of giving that up.

I know the law. That is not my point....

 

[Missouri_Mike]

No, I don't believe that at all. I believe laws need working on, restructuring, refining or expanding where necessary. Even repealed where they are no longer valid.

Er, no, I expect laws to be enforced via the courts and their officers.

You want a land of no laws?

We are a land of laws. One of those laws is every citizen has a right to bear arms. You don't seem to like that one but that's your problem to live with. Most of us have no intention of giving that up.

I know the law. That is not my point....

Then get to your point. So far nothing you are saying makes sense.

 

[Dr Grump]

The only Utopians here are the schmucks like you who foolishly believe that all we have to do is pass the right laws and everything will be peace, flowers and love beads, and invoke stale old bullshit cliches like "go live on an island if you don't like it"...As though the might of the biggest mob makes right.

Laws have to be enforced....How do you propose enforcing laws when people refuse to comply with them, sending engraved invitations and saying "pretty please with sugar on top"?

No, I don't believe that at all. I believe laws need working on, restructuring, refining or expanding where necessary. Even repealed where they are no longer valid.

Er, no, I expect laws to be enforced via the courts and their officers.

What do those officers carry, to "persuade" the non-compliant?

You want a land of no laws?

Irrelevant, façile-minded question, undignified of any response other than to point out what an utterly irrelevant and façile-minded question it is.

So you don't want those officers to enforce laws? Is that what you are saying?

As to your last comment, what a cop out. Infantile and unable to respond huh? It's real easy to to take a stance that you know that has never existed in human history and never will. We can all do "this is my Utopia" BS. It's easy to take the unattainable, morally vacuous stance because you can't argue against the impossible/improbable, but you can surely make it the crutch of your argument. That's too easy. So Odd takes the easy way out. Why am I not surprised...

 

[Oddball]

Totally unclear on the concept.

Never mind.

 

[Dr Grump]

We are a land of laws. One of those laws is every citizen has a right to bear arms. You don't seem to like that one but that's your problem to live with. Most of us have no intention of giving that up.

I know the law. That is not my point....

Then get to your point. So far nothing you are saying makes sense.

Either take a dump or get of the John....Your one-line interlude is old hat....

And if it doesn't make sense, maybe you need to get to the play pen or a thread where the IQ doesn't get over 70....

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I know the law. That is not my point....

Then get to your point. So far nothing you are saying makes sense.

Either take a dump or get of the John....Your one-line interlude is old hat....

And if it doesn't make sense, maybe you need to get to the play pen or a thread where the IQ doesn't get over 70....

Aaaand the mental tank runs dry, the engine sputters and quits. That happens a lot to you lefties.

 

[Dr Grump]

Totally unclear on the concept.

Never mind.

Seriously? I would be hard pressed to find an EASIER concept that you are expousing. So instead of addressing the issues, you fob it off like you have this really cool Utopian concept that I don't 'get'.

Pfffttt....You've always taken the easy yet unattainable route Odd. Why change now....

 

[Dr Grump]

Then get to your point. So far nothing you are saying makes sense.

Either take a dump or get of the John....Your one-line interlude is old hat....

And if it doesn't make sense, maybe you need to get to the play pen or a thread where the IQ doesn't get over 70....

Aaaand the mental tank runs dry, the engine sputters and quits. That happens a lot to you lefties.

Unlike your opening pearl of wisdom, right?