Battle of the Bulge the most notorious intelligence failure in US history Dec. 16 1944

[whitehall]

The victors write the history books and maybe that's fair enough. The media told Americans that General McAuliffe was a hero for a note to Germans when he lost his entire command at Bastogne. American G.I.'s were sure that the Germans were done and they would be home for Christmas in 1944. On Dec. 16 Ike was attending a series of Christmas parties and probably enjoying several glasses of liberated French wine while everyone on the front lines who was sober could hear ominous diesel exhaust from German tanks. Ike should have been relieved of duty after his failure of leadership led to the almost successful German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge or the Ardennes Offensive. .

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The victors write the history books and maybe that's fair enough. The media told Americans that General McAuliffe was a hero for a note to Germans when he lost his entire command at Bastogne. American G.I.'s were sure that the Germans were done and they would be home for Christmas in 1944. On Dec. 16 Ike was attending a series of Christmas parties and probably enjoying several glasses of liberated French wine while everyone on the front lines who was sober could hear ominous diesel exhaust from German tanks. Ike should have been relieved of duty after his failure of leadership led to the almost successful German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge or the Ardennes Offensive. .

Where you get your info and how you spout nonsense is amazing.

 

[alang1216]

The victors write the history books and maybe that's fair enough. The media told Americans that General McAuliffe was a hero for a note to Germans when he lost his entire command at Bastogne. American G.I.'s were sure that the Germans were done and they would be home for Christmas in 1944. On Dec. 16 Ike was attending a series of Christmas parties and probably enjoying several glasses of liberated French wine while everyone on the front lines who was sober could hear ominous diesel exhaust from German tanks. Ike should have been relieved of duty after his failure of leadership led to the almost successful German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge or the Ardennes Offensive. .

I'd vote for Pearl Harbor being our worst failure.

 

[whitehall]

Where you get your info and how you spout nonsense is amazing.

Tell me something different. That's what historic perspective is all about.

 

[whitehall]

I'd vote for Pearl Harbor being our worst failure.

You have a point.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You have a point.

9/11

 

[sparky]

The victors get the spoils, along with the history redux .....~S~

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Tell me something different. That's what historic perspective is all about.

"historic perspective?" That's what you're calling your claims/comments?

Your 'Ike should've been..." comment is nonsense. "the almost successful German offensive" In a game of hand-grenades there is no almost.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/ADA263926.pdf

The Allies’ Near-Catastrophic Intelligence Failure

A colossal Allied intelligence failure preceded the launch of the Ardennes Offensive in December 1944, and the result was nearly catastrophic.

warfarehistorynetwork.com

I've read up on how the attack came about. I know much about the 10th Armored Division (90th Calvary Reconnaissance Squadron).

"Years after the war, General Anthony McAuliffe said "In my opinion, Combat Command B of the 10th Armored Division was never properly credited with their important role in the Bastogne battle.""


Chapter 13-THE ARDENNES: BATTLE OF THE BULGE

 

[whitehall]

9/11

Maybe I should have specified Military intelligence. Prior to WW2 there was no National Intelligence agency and the Military relied on a hodge podge of Army "intelligence" network staffed by poorly trained clerks and commanded by officers who had little or no experience in the field. For some perspective about 3,000 Americans were killed at Pearl Harbor and about 3,000 Americans died in 9-11 but about 20,000 Americans were killed in the Battle of the Bulge.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Maybe I should have specified Military intelligence. Prior to WW2 there was no National Intelligence agency and the Military relied on a hodge podge of Army "intelligence" network staffed by poorly trained clerks and commanded by officers who had little or no experience in the field.

I apologize for jumping the gun, so to speak.

 

[rampart]

The victors write the history books and maybe that's fair enough. The media told Americans that General McAuliffe was a hero for a note to Germans when he lost his entire command at Bastogne. American G.I.'s were sure that the Germans were done and they would be home for Christmas in 1944. On Dec. 16 Ike was attending a series of Christmas parties and probably enjoying several glasses of liberated French wine while everyone on the front lines who was sober could hear ominous diesel exhaust from German tanks. Ike should have been relieved of duty after his failure of leadership led to the almost successful German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge or the Ardennes Offensive. .

intelligence failures greater than the bulge

1. pearl harbor
2. 9./11
3. the uss maine
4. iran hostages
etc etc

as an intelligence failure the bulge is no worse than little big horn or cold harbor (as if custer, or grant, cared much about intelligence. i would add lee to that list as well. by the third day at gettyburg, picketts charge was little more than human sacrifice. )

maybe the common thread here , including ike and mccauliffe, is west point.

on edit: your #9 must have posted as i wrote this stuff. with number of dead as the criteria, i think the bulge wins.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

American production was able replace our tank and plane losses.
The Germans could not keep up with their losses.
Once the Germans lost their aircover it was all over except for the march to Berlin.
The P-51s, P-40s, P-47s and P-38s destroyed everything that moved.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The last gasp. The Germans were like dying people who I've known who make a last comeback when a friend or family member arrives. Experienced health pros and others see it for what it is. Others see hope, false as it is. Death will not be cheated.

 

[whitehall]

American production was able replace our tank and plane losses.
The Germans could not keep up with their losses.
Once the Germans lost their aircover it was all over except for the march to Berlin.
The P-51s, P-40s, P-47s and P-38s destroyed everything that moved.

That was the American intelligence assessment at the time but 20,000 Americans died during the Ardennes Offensive.

 

[alang1216]

9/11

You have a point.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Tell me something different. That's what historic perspective is all about.

McAuliffe did not lose his command for a start.

 

[Markle]

My Ol' Man fought under Patton in the Battle of the Bulge. He was Drill Sargeant and taught motor pool at Fort Benning near Stark, Florida, for much of the war.

I was born on D-Day (June 6, 1944) at Fort Benning. A few weeks later, he was shipped to somewhere in the NE for advanced military training. He caught up with Patton's 3rd Army before he pulled out of one battle and headed toward the Nazi-encircled city of Bastogne.

I have dozens of the letters he wrote home to my Mom. He never said a word about how tough the battles were or how cold and tough it was. I found and read these after they had both died.

I knew he had lost his leg, but nowhere near the whole story. He never said. It was one of the bloodiest battles of the war.

My Mom had sent him a watch; they were deep in the battle, and he wasn’t in very good spirits. He had several watches and rings. They took the rings and watches from the corpses as they fought.

This letter was sent to my Dad in October and returned in January with no record. I can't imagine what my Mom and thousands of others went through, not knowing.

All sides made mistakes throughout the war. To say General Eisenhower should have been fired is just plain stupid and nothing more than clickbait.

Mom, Dad, Me, and Tom, one of our German Shepherds who also went to war. Tom didn't come home; Jerry, his sister, did and proceeded to raise me.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Great stories, great memories, great addition here. Thanks for your Dad's service.

 

[Mushroom]

intelligence failures greater than the bulge

1. pearl harbor
2. 9./11
3. the uss maine
4. iran hostages
etc etc

And gotta add in the Tet Offensive, the Korean War, the Chinese entering the Korean War, I can literally go on and on and on.

Why people imagine that any such incident is a "failure" is mostly because they simply have to blame somebody for everything. Very simplistic thinking that demands that everything must somehow be preventable if we were not so incompetent.

 

[rampart]

The last gasp. The Germans were like dying people who I've known who make a last comeback when a friend or family member arrives. Experienced health pros and others see it for what it is. Others see hope, false as it is. Death will not be cheated.

And gotta add in the Tet Offensive, the Korean War, the Chinese entering the Korean War, I can literally go on and on and on.

Why people imagine that any such incident is a "failure" is mostly because they simply have to blame somebody for everything. Very simplistic thinking that demands that everything must somehow be preventable if we were not so incompetent.

if we knew everything the world might be better, but there is a reason that some are called "surprise"attacks. "