Banned for Reading Bible BEFORE Class

[irosie91]

It’s apparently OK to read history books at Northern Arizona University, but not the Good Book.

Mark Holden, a 22-year-old history major, tells me he was ordered to leave a lecture hall after his professor objected to him reading the Bible before the start of the class.

“All the students agreed with her that assimilation is oppressive and evil.”

Holden alleges that professor Heather Martel ordered him to put away the Good Book around six minutes before a scheduled history class. It’s unclear why she objected to the reading of God’s word.

According to her biography, Professor Martel is a noted scholar who is working on an essay titled, “The Gender Amazon: Indigenous Female Masculinity in Early Modern European Representations of Contact.” She also teaches classes on Global Queer History and Feminist Theory.

When Holden declined to stop reading his Bible, the professor summoned Derek Heng, the chairman of the department. Heng then proceeded to explain the situation.

Holden recorded the conversation and turned it over to congressional candidate Kevin Cavanaugh. In turn, Cavanaugh provided me with a copy of the audio.

"So Professor Martel says that she doesn't want you sitting in front of her because you put, you know, a Bible out, right?" Heng said.

"So she doesn't want me in the front because I have my Bible out," Holden replied.

"No, I think she — I mean, well, why do you have your Bible out anyway," Heng asked.

After a bit more back and forth regarding the dynamics in the classroom, the chairman of the department got to the heart of the issue. "So, will you, will you, will you, put your Bible away?" Heng asked.

The incident occurred back in February, but just recently became public after Campus Reform reported on the controversy.

Holden had previously drawn the ire of his professor during a classroom discussion on assimilation.

"All the students agreed with her that assimilation is oppressive and evil," Holden said. "I suggested there are both positive and negative aspects to assimilation."

As an example, he referenced a report about two Muslim men in California who reportedly said the Koran justified doing terrible things to women.

"She told me I was a racist and she would not tolerate that kind of racism in the class," Holden said. "I told her Islam was not a race and I was only talking about what the two Muslim men as individuals said — I was not making broad claims about Islam or my interpretation of the Koran."

After a bit of back and forth, Holden said the professor told the class, "Welcome to Trump's new America — where straight white males can say prejudicial things without being reprimanded for it."

Can she order him to do that? Unless there some rules no religious things in class. Or no religious talk in class?

Can the class really have different rule than the college or university. Unless the college or university say no religious stuff.

I mean they are adults and lots older mature adults take
religion in college, university or debate religion in school. I mean that is what college and university is learning things and debating things.

Makes no senses.

true----IT MAKES NO SENSE------we need more information

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

 

[rightwinger]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't. Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story. Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble. In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.

 

[hadit]

The class was overbooked and he student refused to leave

To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened

Gee Mom, I wasn't doing noth'n. I was sitting there reading my bible when the teacher got all upset

Anyone else notice the cognitive dissonance between the two statements?

 

[rightwinger]

The class was overbooked and he student refused to leave

To date, we have only heard the students version of what happened

Gee Mom, I wasn't doing noth'n. I was sitting there reading my bible when the teacher got all upset

Anyone else notice the cognitive dissonance between the two statements?

Whoosh!

Right over your head

 

[ScienceRocks]

A person shouldn't read this kind of stuff in government schools. Period.

 

[Divine Wind]

A person shouldn't read this kind of stuff in government schools. Period.

1) It's not a government school.

2) Why are you against the First Amendment?

3) Do you believe "We, the People" have our rights or do you believe the Constitution gives us our rights?

4) Do you believe the Constitution is a limitation on "We, the People" or a limitation on the Federal government?

 

[Coyote]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't. Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story. Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble. In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.

Typically, in these situations - the school is not allowed to say much about it or in their defense until it's resolved. There is no such inhibition on the student so we likely are hearing very much one side of the story.

 

[Coyote]

This article has an interesting take on it: NAU President denounces harassment, but is it enough?

It also notes:

In an email to Holden, included in the April 27 Campus Reform article, Martel provided another reason for the student’s removal.


According to the article, Martel said the student was being disruptive in class and using hate speech prior to the incident. Martel, however, declined to comment when The Lumberjack asked about the incident.​

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't. Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story. Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble. In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.

Typically, in these situations - the school is not allowed to say much about it or in their defense until it's resolved. There is no such inhibition on the student so we likely are hearing very much one side of the story.

Agreed, but why haven't the other students spoken up? Nothing on Martel as a teacher, good or bad, nor about Holden as a student, good or bad. It's as if a bunch of fucking lawyers are involved and all were slapped with a gag order by a judge.

 

[Divine Wind]

This article has an interesting take on it: NAU President denounces harassment, but is it enough?

It also notes:

In an email to Holden, included in the April 27 Campus Reform article, Martel provided another reason for the student’s removal.


According to the article, Martel said the student was being disruptive in class and using hate speech prior to the incident. Martel, however, declined to comment when The Lumberjack asked about the incident.​

So, if they were harassed, their reaction is to harass students???

 

[Spare_change]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

Could it be because the University has something to hide, and they just wish the whole thing would go away? If they weren't at fault, or were interested in actively defending the professor, it would be all over the papers.

 

[Spare_change]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't. Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story. Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble. In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.

Typically, in these situations - the school is not allowed to say much about it or in their defense until it's resolved. There is no such inhibition on the student so we likely are hearing very much one side of the story.

Agreed, but why haven't the other students spoken up? Nothing on Martel as a teacher, good or bad, nor about Holden as a student, good or bad. It's as if a bunch of fucking lawyers are involved and all were slapped with a gag order by a judge.

Maybe because it happened BEFORE class, and there were few, to none, other students around to witness it?

 

[Coyote]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't. Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story. Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble. In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.

Typically, in these situations - the school is not allowed to say much about it or in their defense until it's resolved. There is no such inhibition on the student so we likely are hearing very much one side of the story.

Agreed, but why haven't the other students spoken up? Nothing on Martel as a teacher, good or bad, nor about Holden as a student, good or bad. It's as if a bunch of fucking lawyers are involved and all were slapped with a gag order by a judge.

Maybe because it happened BEFORE class, and there were few, to none, other students around to witness it?

6 min before class, there are plenty of people around

 

[rightwinger]

This story seems to have dropped off the radar

It played itself out in the media for two days and they lost interest. We will probably never find out what happened

 

[hadit]

A person shouldn't read this kind of stuff in government schools. Period.

Why not? Why should a person's location forbid them from reading "this kind of stuff"?

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

Could it be because the University has something to hide, and they just wish the whole thing would go away? If they weren't at fault, or were interested in actively defending the professor, it would be all over the papers.

Most likely, IMHO, they just want it to go away because it reflects poorly on the University; tyrannical Professors and asshole students.

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course we need more information. The problem is that the University has clamped down on this. Nothing since the Campus Reform report.

This story has dropped off the charts....Nothing in the last week
You would think with all the bad press, the University would say something
Normally, students would be posting their accounts of the incident on facebook or twitter

The University can claim the incident is still under investigation even if it isn't. Agreed it's odd the other students haven't come out to affirm or deny what happened.

Off hand, I'd say it happened as reported, but there's more to the story. Sure, Broom Hilda may be a biased, tyrannical queen bitch in her classroom, but Duddly Fuddpucker may be a king-sized asshole doing his best to start trouble. In that case, it's a lose-lose for a 9th out of 10 rated University since it reflects poorly on both it's teaching staff and it's student body.

Typically, in these situations - the school is not allowed to say much about it or in their defense until it's resolved. There is no such inhibition on the student so we likely are hearing very much one side of the story.

Agreed, but why haven't the other students spoken up? Nothing on Martel as a teacher, good or bad, nor about Holden as a student, good or bad. It's as if a bunch of fucking lawyers are involved and all were slapped with a gag order by a judge.

Maybe because it happened BEFORE class, and there were few, to none, other students around to witness it?

Possible, but since it happened a few minutes before class, I'm certain there were other students around to witness it.

If Holden is as smart as he thinks he is, he'd have made sure a friend or two in class was there to both witness and video the incident.

 

[rightwinger]

From this morning

After professors tell student to stop reading his Bible, university launches probe - The College Fix

Martel was unable to be reached — but her university email is now delivering an automated response to incoming messages, including the request for comment from The College Fix.

“This email account is being trolled as a part of a political campaign to harass and intimidate university professors. To my colleagues, students, and friends, I am sorry for the inconvenience. If you are trying to reach me for legitimate NAU business, please use another method for reaching me,” the response states.

“If you are reaching out to me with the intent to harass and intimidate me, cease and desist. The story in the news is a lie. The emails and voicemails I am receiving are deluded, cruel, and disgusting. I will not be reading or listening to them. They will be reviewed by law enforcement officials.”

So, it looks like a case of "he said/she said" With the kid saying he was banned from reading the bible and the professor claiming it is a lie

University is investigating and we will see what happens