Appalachia: Are there solutions?

[TheOldSchool]

What the hell is the point of this thread? Have any of you ever been to Appalachia? Because it's beautiful and the people and culture there are pretty awesome.

 

[Mr. H.]

The 2015 Budget?



40 years ago, I was an encyclopedia salesman based in east Tennessee. I traveled the Appalachian back roads and saw shit that would make the hair stand on your arms. There was an instance where I genuinely feared for my life.

But you know what I remember? What really stood out in my mind?

Contentment. That's what I saw amongst the filth and poverty of 1970's Appalachia.

Family. Faith. Values. I fucking shit you not.

Let's fast-forward to today. Imagine a Republican running on a platform of Family, Faith, and Values.

Fucking ain't gonna happen. Not in the newly christened Obama world.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What the hell is the point of this thread? Have any of you ever been to Appalachia? Because it's beautiful and the people and culture there are pretty awesome.

I think you know exactly what this thread is about. Warrantless stereotypes of southerners by those on the left. Things like "they cling to their guns and religion" sort of stuff, "Redneck Racists", "Christian Taliban" to name a few more. Try not to feign ignorance. I live in North Georgia, thus I know quite a few people from that area. Hopefully you genuinely disagree with those stereotypes.

 

[tinydancer]

Poverty and wealth are subjective.

I was a corporate wife doing the corporate wife thing and living in some of the best places in Nashville and area. Check out Ridgelake to believe me.

We are talking an amazing residence. And I loved the high life. I'm not going to slag having a lot of money ever.You can have a lot of fun with a lot of money. Happy, happy, happy.



But at one point we thought let's buckle down, go hard core cheap and save for a mega land purchase. Hehehehe. We moved to a trailer park in a place called Nunnelly Some of the best times in my life were there.

They didn't think themselves poor. They thought they were rocking if they had a double wide and an old F150.

Hunting, fishing, ginseng hunting and trying to best each other on BBQ. Running hills with shit kicker boots on. Never wetters on to go out and feed the girls.

Mustard based competitions. That's not poor. Beer runs on a Sunday out of county. Getting my Hawken delivered by my postmaster from Fingerhut.

Thats not poor. That's not poverty stricken. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I spent many a year in that trailer park. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

It's not right that we impose our standards on a people who really for the most part are cruising for life happily without all our toys.

 

[jasonnfree]

Rednecks rule!
And there's no finer place in the world to live and raise children than Appalachia.
If you don't like the way we live, be advised that the feeling is probably mutual and you should feel free to stay in your own urban cesspool.

i live in the mountains of nc...my son never knew what a stranger was as a child...he could ask anyone on the creek for help and it would be given...yeap we live in a hollar...
*defined here as a dead end up that goes up between two hills* it is nice in the hollar....people wave with all their fingers..things like that....we are all armed to the hilt...so its peaceful too

wages are lower but so are prices and we have two of the richest areas in the country...blowing rock nc and elk river...old money and new money

Sounds like he's a pretty lucky kid, your son. Some of the kids in appalachia could probably live off the land if they had to. And make do with very little also, or make what they really need without having to buy it at a store. Most Americans have lost those skills and many don't even know their neighbors. You guys could always head for the hills if thing got really bad in the big city.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Rednecks rule!
And there's no finer place in the world to live and raise children than Appalachia.
If you don't like the way we live, be advised that the feeling is probably mutual and you should feel free to stay in your own urban cesspool.

i live in the mountains of nc...my son never knew what a stranger was as a child...he could ask anyone on the creek for help and it would be given...yeap we live in a hollar...
*defined here as a dead end up that goes up between two hills* it is nice in the hollar....people wave with all their fingers..things like that....we are all armed to the hilt...so its peaceful too

wages are lower but so are prices and we have two of the richest areas in the country...blowing rock nc and elk river...old money and new money

Sounds like he's a pretty lucky kid, your son. Some of the kids in appalachia could probably live off the land if they had to. And make do with very little also, or make what they really need without having to buy it at a store. Most Americans have lost those skills and many don't even know their neighbors. You guys could always head for the hills if thing got really bad in the big city.

No need to head for the hills. Already there.
Grand young'un:

 

[Katzndogz]

Rednecks rule!
And there's no finer place in the world to live and raise children than Appalachia.
If you don't like the way we live, be advised that the feeling is probably mutual and you should feel free to stay in your own urban cesspool.

i live in the mountains of nc...my son never knew what a stranger was as a child...he could ask anyone on the creek for help and it would be given...yeap we live in a hollar...
*defined here as a dead end up that goes up between two hills* it is nice in the hollar....people wave with all their fingers..things like that....we are all armed to the hilt...so its peaceful too

wages are lower but so are prices and we have two of the richest areas in the country...blowing rock nc and elk river...old money and new money

We too have "hollars". Dead end roads that go up between two hills. Here we call them canyons, the people who live there are Canyon People. I met my first Canyon People last week end. Friends of mine moved to a Canyon house and the neighbors threw a bar be que to welcome them. What is it about living in such a place that makes the people so different? These canyons are in Beverly Hills and Santa Monica mountains. The homes are multi million dollar mansions, yet the people aren't much different from yours.

 

[Nutz]

What the hell is the point of this thread? Have any of you ever been to Appalachia? Because it's beautiful and the people and culture there are pretty awesome.

I think you know exactly what this thread is about. Warrantless stereotypes of southerners by those on the left. Things like "they cling to their guns and religion" sort of stuff, "Redneck Racists", "Christian Taliban" to name a few more. Try not to feign ignorance. I live in North Georgia, thus I know quite a few people from that area. Hopefully you genuinely disagree with those stereotypes.

Hmm...I haven't seen any comments like that. Its been a circle jerk of similar thought, but no warrant less attacks on Southerners or mountain people (I'm sorta surprised).

But lets be honest, there is poverty in the mountains because these people have no education and they make no attempt to better their community.

It's a lifestyle, no? There is nothing the matter with this...there is nothing the matter with wanting to live off the land and be one with the mountains. The thing is, if you want this lifestyle, if you want to remain isolated, if you want to be 'left alone' - don't make American's pay for your welfare!

There is something the matter with theses people living off the government...generation, after generation, after generation, after generation. There is something the matter with being intolerant to flatlanders, scaring away business, tourism, and growth then sucking up tax dollars because you want a lifestyle.

The solution is simple...no more welfare. Make these people move where there are jobs and where there is opportunity...because they sure as hell aren't creating ANY opportunity for themselves.

 

[RandomVariable]

What the hell is the point of this thread? Have any of you ever been to Appalachia? Because it's beautiful and the people and culture there are pretty awesome.

I think you know exactly what this thread is about. Warrantless stereotypes of southerners by those on the left. Things like "they cling to their guns and religion" sort of stuff, "Redneck Racists", "Christian Taliban" to name a few more. Try not to feign ignorance. I live in North Georgia, thus I know quite a few people from that area. Hopefully you genuinely disagree with those stereotypes.

Hmm...I haven't seen any comments like that. Its been a circle jerk of similar thought, but no warrant less attacks on Southerners or mountain people (I'm sorta surprised).

But lets be honest, there is poverty in the mountains because these people have no education and they make no attempt to better their community.

It's a lifestyle, no? There is nothing the matter with this...there is nothing the matter with wanting to live off the land and be one with the mountains. The thing is, if you want this lifestyle, if you want to remain isolated, if you want to be 'left alone' - don't make American's pay for your welfare!

There is something the matter with theses people living off the government...generation, after generation, after generation, after generation. There is something the matter with being intolerant to flatlanders, scaring away business, tourism, and growth then sucking up tax dollars because you want a lifestyle.

The solution is simple...no more welfare. Make these people move where there are jobs and where there is opportunity...because they sure as hell aren't creating ANY opportunity for themselves.

There are many people in the region. The people who live and enjoy their life is one group. People who like the cost of live and live like kings in the hills are another. There is another group where real tragedy lives. These are people who live in towns that used to be. Where there was a business and everyone adapted to working at the one big employer. When that employ picked up and left, for whatever reason, the town and its people are left to slowly decline into abject poverty. This is no "get a job" or "start your own business". There is possibly move elsewhere but families are large and close knit. They can't all pack up and move out. The roads fail, there are no teachers for the schools, and no doctors in the clinics. The government can either step in or not. There is no thing for sure, there are no easy answers.

 

[Nutz]

I think you know exactly what this thread is about. Warrantless stereotypes of southerners by those on the left. Things like "they cling to their guns and religion" sort of stuff, "Redneck Racists", "Christian Taliban" to name a few more. Try not to feign ignorance. I live in North Georgia, thus I know quite a few people from that area. Hopefully you genuinely disagree with those stereotypes.

Hmm...I haven't seen any comments like that. Its been a circle jerk of similar thought, but no warrant less attacks on Southerners or mountain people (I'm sorta surprised).

But lets be honest, there is poverty in the mountains because these people have no education and they make no attempt to better their community.

It's a lifestyle, no? There is nothing the matter with this...there is nothing the matter with wanting to live off the land and be one with the mountains. The thing is, if you want this lifestyle, if you want to remain isolated, if you want to be 'left alone' - don't make American's pay for your welfare!

There is something the matter with theses people living off the government...generation, after generation, after generation, after generation. There is something the matter with being intolerant to flatlanders, scaring away business, tourism, and growth then sucking up tax dollars because you want a lifestyle.

The solution is simple...no more welfare. Make these people move where there are jobs and where there is opportunity...because they sure as hell aren't creating ANY opportunity for themselves.

There are many people in the region. The people who live and enjoy their life is one group. People who like the cost of live and live like kings in the hills are another. There is another group where real tragedy lives. These are people who live in towns that used to be. Where there was a business and everyone adapted to working at the one big employer. When that employ picked up and left, for whatever reason, the town and its people are left to slowly decline into abject poverty. This is no "get a job" or "start your own business". There is possibly move elsewhere but families are large and close knit. They can't all pack up and move out. The roads fail, there are no teachers for the schools, and no doctors in the clinics. The government can either step in or not. There is no thing for sure, there are no easy answers.

What I am saying is that they do not want the government to help any more than getting their food stamps and welfare checks. They don't want to better themselves, they want to be left alone to wallow in their own misery.

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out. They already know how to manipulate and abuse welfare...they could do the same in populated cities where there are jobs.

Sorry, this is nothing more than a group of people that are willful victims of the American welfare system.

 

[RandomVariable]

Hmm...I haven't seen any comments like that. Its been a circle jerk of similar thought, but no warrant less attacks on Southerners or mountain people (I'm sorta surprised).

But lets be honest, there is poverty in the mountains because these people have no education and they make no attempt to better their community.

It's a lifestyle, no? There is nothing the matter with this...there is nothing the matter with wanting to live off the land and be one with the mountains. The thing is, if you want this lifestyle, if you want to remain isolated, if you want to be 'left alone' - don't make American's pay for your welfare!

There is something the matter with theses people living off the government...generation, after generation, after generation, after generation. There is something the matter with being intolerant to flatlanders, scaring away business, tourism, and growth then sucking up tax dollars because you want a lifestyle.

The solution is simple...no more welfare. Make these people move where there are jobs and where there is opportunity...because they sure as hell aren't creating ANY opportunity for themselves.

There are many people in the region. The people who live and enjoy their life is one group. People who like the cost of live and live like kings in the hills are another. There is another group where real tragedy lives. These are people who live in towns that used to be. Where there was a business and everyone adapted to working at the one big employer. When that employ picked up and left, for whatever reason, the town and its people are left to slowly decline into abject poverty. This is no "get a job" or "start your own business". There is possibly move elsewhere but families are large and close knit. They can't all pack up and move out. The roads fail, there are no teachers for the schools, and no doctors in the clinics. The government can either step in or not. There is no thing for sure, there are no easy answers.

What I am saying is that they do not want the government to help any more than getting their food stamps and welfare checks. They don't want to better themselves, they want to be left alone to wallow in their own misery.

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out. They already know how to manipulate and abuse welfare...they could do the same in populated cities where there are jobs.

Sorry, this is nothing more than a group of people that are willful victims of the American welfare system.

You don't know a hard day's work until you live a day in some of these peoples shoes. Why has the War on Poverty failed? Because the only offered is food stamps and welfare checks. They don't want to take it but a hunger kid overcomes pride, at least I sure hope so. Nobody wants to wallow in their own misery. Give them a chance and they will rebuild the entire Tennessee River Valley. Parts of the country that are succeeding should help out those that are not. Businesses do it all the time. If one branch is losing money another branch will be putting money into the company that the other branch is using. With the government it is not so easy however because we leave no one behind. Or at least that is the way it should be. The people in government should be finding ways to make America better for the people. There is not a shortage of government funds there is just a question of how it is used. People trying to say that lower taxes and less regulation is the way grow the economy do not understand the challenges of the Appalachia area, or many other parts of this country. People need to believe in America, invest in America, believe in people. When that happens the War on Poverty will be won. Why can't people simply believe?
(Sorry this is a jumbled mess, I am late for something. Later everyone.)

 

[9thIDdoc]

Hmm...I haven't seen any comments like that. Its been a circle jerk of similar thought, but no warrant less attacks on Southerners or mountain people (I'm sorta surprised).

But lets be honest, there is poverty in the mountains because these people have no education and they make no attempt to better their community.

It's a lifestyle, no? There is nothing the matter with this...there is nothing the matter with wanting to live off the land and be one with the mountains. The thing is, if you want this lifestyle, if you want to remain isolated, if you want to be 'left alone' - don't make American's pay for your welfare!

There is something the matter with theses people living off the government...generation, after generation, after generation, after generation. There is something the matter with being intolerant to flatlanders, scaring away business, tourism, and growth then sucking up tax dollars because you want a lifestyle.

The solution is simple...no more welfare. Make these people move where there are jobs and where there is opportunity...because they sure as hell aren't creating ANY opportunity for themselves.

There are many people in the region. The people who live and enjoy their life is one group. People who like the cost of live and live like kings in the hills are another. There is another group where real tragedy lives. These are people who live in towns that used to be. Where there was a business and everyone adapted to working at the one big employer. When that employ picked up and left, for whatever reason, the town and its people are left to slowly decline into abject poverty. This is no "get a job" or "start your own business". There is possibly move elsewhere but families are large and close knit. They can't all pack up and move out. The roads fail, there are no teachers for the schools, and no doctors in the clinics. The government can either step in or not. There is no thing for sure, there are no easy answers.

What I am saying is that they do not want the government to help any more than getting their food stamps and welfare checks. They don't want to better themselves, they want to be left alone to wallow in their own misery.

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out. They already know how to manipulate and abuse welfare...they could do the same in populated cities where there are jobs.

Sorry, this is nothing more than a group of people that are willful victims of the American welfare system.

Right. Is there any group of people anywhere that have more thoroughly turned leeching off the system into a lifestyle than those of the inner city? Where would one go to find unmarried women with many children whose father(s) are either unknown or do not contribute to raising them? Ever hear of public housing?

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out

Wrong. It's a matter of caring and personal responsibility. I would never willingly raise children in a dirty crime ridden city and I have to wonder about those who actually do so on purpose. Where I come from how someone treats their friends and family has more importance than how fat their bank account is. And what they know is more important than who they know. I have friends and relatives who were there for me in bad times I couldn't have handled on my own and wouldn't think I was worth much if I wasn't there for them when needed.

 

[Nutz]

There are many people in the region. The people who live and enjoy their life is one group. People who like the cost of live and live like kings in the hills are another. There is another group where real tragedy lives. These are people who live in towns that used to be. Where there was a business and everyone adapted to working at the one big employer. When that employ picked up and left, for whatever reason, the town and its people are left to slowly decline into abject poverty. This is no "get a job" or "start your own business". There is possibly move elsewhere but families are large and close knit. They can't all pack up and move out. The roads fail, there are no teachers for the schools, and no doctors in the clinics. The government can either step in or not. There is no thing for sure, there are no easy answers.

What I am saying is that they do not want the government to help any more than getting their food stamps and welfare checks. They don't want to better themselves, they want to be left alone to wallow in their own misery.

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out. They already know how to manipulate and abuse welfare...they could do the same in populated cities where there are jobs.

Sorry, this is nothing more than a group of people that are willful victims of the American welfare system.

Right. Is there any group of people anywhere that have more thoroughly turned leeching off the system into a lifestyle than those of the inner city? Where would one go to find unmarried women with many children whose father(s) are either unknown or do not contribute to raising them? Ever hear of public housing?

So you justify Appalachian welfare recipients by pointing at black people? LOL, thats classic. A people who have enjoyed generation, after generation, after generation, after generation of true freedom shouldn't be a leech on society...they shouldn't be on welfare. Appalachian people who didn't endure slavery, institutionalized racism, and Jim Crow Laws...a people who have had opportunity since the inception of this land to succeed -shouldn't be on welfare. LMAO...really!

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out

Wrong. It's a matter of caring and personal responsibility. I would never willingly raise children in a dirty crime ridden city and I have to wonder about those who actually do so on purpose. Where I come from how someone treats their friends and family has more importance than how fat their bank account is. And what they know is more important than who they know. I have friends and relatives who were there for me in bad times I couldn't have handled on my own and wouldn't think I was worth much if I wasn't there for them when needed.

So you won't move because you don't want to be around black people and you don't think you would have friends and family if you moved in an area where there is opportunity?

LOL...wow, what is a leech again? You want sympathy from whom? You want your food stamps, monthly check and a monolithic community. Must be nice!

I wonder how many people in the city would like to live in the mountains...and be on welfare. Would your kinfolk allow that?

 

[whitehall]

The coal industry was the mainstay of much of Appalachia for more than a hundred years until Obama and his radical environmentalists shut it down. Actually the vast area known as Appalachia is still better off than Detroit and other areas dominated by crooked liberals for years.

 

[RandomVariable]

What I am saying is that they do not want the government to help any more than getting their food stamps and welfare checks. They don't want to better themselves, they want to be left alone to wallow in their own misery.

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out. They already know how to manipulate and abuse welfare...they could do the same in populated cities where there are jobs.

Sorry, this is nothing more than a group of people that are willful victims of the American welfare system.

Right. Is there any group of people anywhere that have more thoroughly turned leeching off the system into a lifestyle than those of the inner city? Where would one go to find unmarried women with many children whose father(s) are either unknown or do not contribute to raising them? Ever hear of public housing?

So you justify Appalachian welfare recipients by pointing at black people? LOL, thats classic. A people who have enjoyed generation, after generation, after generation, after generation of true freedom shouldn't be a leech on society...they shouldn't be on welfare. Appalachian people who didn't endure slavery, institutionalized racism, and Jim Crow Laws...a people who have had opportunity since the inception of this land to succeed -shouldn't be on welfare. LMAO...really!

As for moving large families...you would think, if you cared about your family, you would find a way to move out

Wrong. It's a matter of caring and personal responsibility. I would never willingly raise children in a dirty crime ridden city and I have to wonder about those who actually do so on purpose. Where I come from how someone treats their friends and family has more importance than how fat their bank account is. And what they know is more important than who they know. I have friends and relatives who were there for me in bad times I couldn't have handled on my own and wouldn't think I was worth much if I wasn't there for them when needed.

So you won't move because you don't want to be around black people and you don't think you would have friends and family if you moved in an area where there is opportunity?

LOL...wow, what is a leech again? You want sympathy from whom? You want your food stamps, monthly check and a monolithic community. Must be nice!

I wonder how many people in the city would like to live in the mountains...and be on welfare. Would your kinfolk allow that?

Please no flaming. I realize this is a very charged topic.

 

[Nutz]

LOL, so its okay to point at the inner city to justify country folks on welfare? And I am flaming...okay, go on back to holding hands and wondering why these people are on welfare. I guess because they are white people, there must be a deeper reason than isolation, lack of education, and a suspect culture of inbreeding and hate.

 

[TheOldSchool]

What the hell is the point of this thread? Have any of you ever been to Appalachia? Because it's beautiful and the people and culture there are pretty awesome.

I think you know exactly what this thread is about. Warrantless stereotypes of southerners by those on the left. Things like "they cling to their guns and religion" sort of stuff, "Redneck Racists", "Christian Taliban" to name a few more. Try not to feign ignorance. I live in North Georgia, thus I know quite a few people from that area. Hopefully you genuinely disagree with those stereotypes.

[MENTION=43268]TemplarKormac[/MENTION]
Why do you have to be a dick?

 

[9thIDdoc]

So you justify Appalachian welfare recipients by pointing at black people? LOL, thats classic. A people who have enjoyed generation, after generation, after generation, after generation of true freedom shouldn't be a leech on society...they shouldn't be on welfare. Appalachian people who didn't endure slavery, institutionalized racism, and Jim Crow Laws...a people who have had opportunity since the inception of this land to succeed -shouldn't be on welfare. LMAO...really!

Well you have gone totally off topic here but-since you are determined to play the race card for no good reason I can see-but I will answer your question anyway. I believe in equality which means I do NOT believe blacks are somehow entitled to anything more or less than a person of any other race. Nor am I at all interested in a lot of pathetic whining about how somebody might possibly been mean to somebodies great, great, great, grandfather. Please save that for someone who cares. Better yet just get over it.

So you won't move because you don't want to be around black people and you don't think you would have friends and family if you moved in an area where there is opportunity?

Race is your hang-up; not mine. If there is so much opportunity why are so many on welfare?

 

[RandomVariable]

LOL, so its okay to point at the inner city to justify country folks on welfare? And I am flaming...okay, go on back to holding hands and wondering why these people are on welfare. I guess because they are white people, there must be a deeper reason than isolation, lack of education, and a suspect culture of inbreeding and hate.

I meant no flaming as in the future tense, not the present tense. I am hoping that it does not start in future posts.

 

[Nutz]

So you justify Appalachian welfare recipients by pointing at black people? LOL, thats classic. A people who have enjoyed generation, after generation, after generation, after generation of true freedom shouldn't be a leech on society...they shouldn't be on welfare. Appalachian people who didn't endure slavery, institutionalized racism, and Jim Crow Laws...a people who have had opportunity since the inception of this land to succeed -shouldn't be on welfare. LMAO...really!

Well you have gone totally off topic here but-since you are determined to play the race card for no good reason I can see-but I will answer your question anyway. I believe in equality which means I do NOT believe blacks are somehow entitled to anything more or less than a person of any other race. Nor am I at all interested in a lot of pathetic whining about how somebody might possibly been mean to somebodies great, great, great, grandfather. Please save that for someone who cares. Better yet just get over it.

So you won't move because you don't want to be around black people and you don't think you would have friends and family if you moved in an area where there is opportunity?

Race is your hang-up; not mine. If there is so much opportunity why are so many on welfare?

Well, I assumed that since you referenced inner city, that you were using race. If not, I apologize...I made an assumption and that is wrong. But YOU did avoid the topic by pointing to inner city instead of a little self evaluation. If mountaineers weren't so exclusive, if they were welcoming, if they put a focus on education...the situation would be different. And you are correct, the same goes for inner city ghettos! But we are discussing Appalachia, correct?

As for the opportunity...I look at it like this, welfare is a temporary measure that should only be available for 3 - 6 months. After that, you are on your own. I don't care if you are black, white, green or yellow. Family is important, that is who you lean on after those benefits are exhausted. Generational welfare has to end. The only way of doing that in remote areas, as I see it, is to change attitudes about education and to introduce these commuinities to the 21st century. In the end, I truly believe that Appalachia residents don't want any of this...I don't think they would give up their lifestyle for a flatlander. I don't think they would tolerate multi-culturalism or diversity in thought. I think that they would even have a problem with something as simple as law and order.

Now that we handled that...I am curious...truly curious about the claim that Obama destroyed the coal industry. I know you did not bring it up, but can you educate me? (I am not an Obama fan).