An Athiest Student as she has claimed, brings a lawsuit with the help of the ACLU?

[rightwinger]

I can't understand why religious zealots would insist on pushing their religious beliefs in a public school. School children are a captive audience.

How would you react if your child came home and told you her atheist teacher had told the class there was no god?

How would you react if your child came home and told you that they had been kneeling on prayer rugs twice a day and praying to Allah and she asked if she could do it at home too?

i wonder how they'd feel if their kid's teacher explained that the messiah hasn't come yet and that jesus didn't fulfill the prophesies.

somehow, i suspect they wouldn't be so thrilled about religion mixing with education at that point.

i say, as always, if you can't spend 8 hours a day without praying, you should be in a parochial school. it's really that simple.

If the majorities will was honored as it should have been in this nation on these subjects over the years, we would not have to worry about a school teaching or ever trying what you just hypothetically suggested they would on our children, but since that has not been the case anylonger in America, I don't doubt anything that will be tried next upon our children in this nation, and yes I am sure we wouldn't like it along with all the other things we don't like that is going on against us/we the majority in this nation right now.

This is the United States

We look out for the rights of the minority. It was established in something we call the Constitution

 

[beagle9]

[Also, there is nothing that says a child can't pray on his own. It is forced prayer or open religious displays that are not allowed

How have this girl's rights been violated?

"Our heavenly father"

If the banner had started "Praise Allah" would it be acceptable?

The answer to your question may be in the workings or coming real soon.. Stay tuned!

 

[rightwinger]

How have this girl's rights been violated?

"Our heavenly father"

If the banner had started "Praise Allah" would it be acceptable?

The answer to your question may be in the workings or coming real soon.. Stay tuned!

I see your point

It's what happens when you allow unchecked religion in a society without proper boundaries

 

[beagle9]

There is a saying...

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for supper

Just because you are in the majority doesn't mean you get to vote away the rights of a minority

We vote on issues ALL the time, new laws get put in the voting booths and the majority makes it or breaks it. There's many issues over the years that i voted against, but the majority voted for, so i'm shit out of luck. Or are you saying i shouldn't have to abide by that law now because i voted against it?? I really don't think it works that way.....

You don't think it works that way because you are uninformed. This is not a pure democracy. Majority does not rule.

Ok, so if my sons & their friends are playing in the yard let's say, and a neighbor kid comes over and ((demands)) that they play the game a different way, and this all because he is offended, and isn't capable to play it the way that they have been playing, so does my sons and their friends change the game based upon the kids ((demands)), and this even if he goes and gets his father (i.e. the ACLU) to defend him when they don't change due his being offended and/or demands given, or do they say to the kid "sorry" but we play the game this way, and it is up to you to learn it that way, and if need be, we can help you learn it that away if you want us to, but no we will not change on your ((demand))?

Now if the kid came into the yard, and looked as if he really wanted to play the game, but was scared to play in the way that it was being played, and then he (((ASKED))) if they could change the game up a little bit, in order that he fit into the game also, then I bet the response would be "yes we will change it up a bit, just so you can play as well with us, so welcome aboard my friend". This is how it should work in America, but for some un-Godly reasons it hasn't been working in America, so the game is changed against the majorities will, thus dragging everyone down to a level that is pushing this nation back into the stone ages because of, yet the idiotic government and it's idiotic activist judges can't seem to figure this one out for some reason.

 

[beagle9]

"Our heavenly father"

If the banner had started "Praise Allah" would it be acceptable?

It doesn't matter because that's not what it says, but if there were a sizable Muslim population in that community, like in Dearborn, Michigan, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it said "Praise Allah." In fact, I'd be willing to bet if you walk into a public school in Dearborn you will see Islamic displays in some form or another. Does that force anyone in the school to pray to Allah? Does this banner force this child to pray to Jehovah or take part in Christian practices, or force her to convert to a Christian religion?

We have moved towards this thinking that somehow we have a right to not be offended and that therefore means we can suppress the expression of the vast majority of people to secure that "right," yet there is no such doctrine in the U.S. Constitution or any state constitution. The simple, common sense thing for this child to do if this banner bothers her so much is to simply not look at it.

Tyranny of the minority is no better than tyranny of the majority. Common sense is all that needs to be applied here and our legal system has become practically void of it.

If your child were a Christian in Dearborn Michigan, she would be offered the same protections from religious influences as that atheist child

Tyranny of the majority is the same as tyranny of the minority....both are still tyranny. That young girl is not insisting that a banner declaring that there is no god be displayed, she is just insisting on a religious neutral environment

Ok, then why didn't she ask for something that she believe in be displayed, and then let a vote decide whether it should be or not be displayed per her peers and fellow students in the situation ? I don't buy your excuse on this, so sorry...

 

[rightwinger]

It doesn't matter because that's not what it says, but if there were a sizable Muslim population in that community, like in Dearborn, Michigan, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it said "Praise Allah." In fact, I'd be willing to bet if you walk into a public school in Dearborn you will see Islamic displays in some form or another. Does that force anyone in the school to pray to Allah? Does this banner force this child to pray to Jehovah or take part in Christian practices, or force her to convert to a Christian religion?

We have moved towards this thinking that somehow we have a right to not be offended and that therefore means we can suppress the expression of the vast majority of people to secure that "right," yet there is no such doctrine in the U.S. Constitution or any state constitution. The simple, common sense thing for this child to do if this banner bothers her so much is to simply not look at it.

Tyranny of the minority is no better than tyranny of the majority. Common sense is all that needs to be applied here and our legal system has become practically void of it.

If your child were a Christian in Dearborn Michigan, she would be offered the same protections from religious influences as that atheist child

Tyranny of the majority is the same as tyranny of the minority....both are still tyranny. That young girl is not insisting that a banner declaring that there is no god be displayed, she is just insisting on a religious neutral environment

Ok, then why didn't she ask for something that she believe in be displayed, and then let a vote decide whether it should be or not be displayed per her peers and fellow students in the situation ? I don't buy your excuse on this, so sorry...

Because she does not want to force her religious beliefs on someone else and expects the same courtesy

 

[Intense]

i wonder how they'd feel if their kid's teacher explained that the messiah hasn't come yet and that jesus didn't fulfill the prophesies.

somehow, i suspect they wouldn't be so thrilled about religion mixing with education at that point.

i say, as always, if you can't spend 8 hours a day without praying, you should be in a parochial school. it's really that simple.

If the majorities will was honored as it should have been in this nation on these subjects over the years, we would not have to worry about a school teaching or ever trying what you just hypothetically suggested they would on our children, but since that has not been the case anylonger in America, I don't doubt anything that will be tried next upon our children in this nation, and yes I am sure we wouldn't like it along with all the other things we don't like that is going on against us/we the majority in this nation right now.

This is the United States

We look out for the rights of the minority. It was established in something we call the Constitution

Rights are Rights, Majority or Minority. Tyranny is Tyranny, be it Tyranny by the Majority or the Minority. It is still Tyranny. Welcome to the concept of Limited Powers. The argument is not over who wields the power, faces change, people change. The point of Power is justifying it for the good of the body and limiting it by the consent of the Governed.

We Establish and maintain Impartial Justice. We do not make that up arbitrarily without Justification, Support, and Consent. Not without Consequence.

You want to level the playing field, teach skill and craftsmanship, not dependency. You preach Abomination when you proclaim redistribution of what is not yours. You create a Society of Incompetents and justify it in your imagination which is very warped, as evidenced by everything around you. Grow up.

"God Bless You", "Allah Bless You", "Nameste", are Salutations, Blessings of good will. I personally do not find them offensive. On a School Banner they may suggest the make up of the Community. That is all. It is a Totalitarian State that seeks to control, Thought, Voice, Religion, in the interest of asserting control. It is not because of the Grace of the State that we are allowed to believe,it is Surely by the Grace of God and Nothing Less.

Why does the Federal Government seek to wrongly impose the restrictions we impose on it on the State, Local Governments, and us? Because of it's selfish, self serving interest. Not only does it do that, pissing on the Constitution, It exempts Itself. That is some Totalitarian Nerve.

 

[Intense]

If your child were a Christian in Dearborn Michigan, she would be offered the same protections from religious influences as that atheist child

Tyranny of the majority is the same as tyranny of the minority....both are still tyranny. That young girl is not insisting that a banner declaring that there is no god be displayed, she is just insisting on a religious neutral environment

Ok, then why didn't she ask for something that she believe in be displayed, and then let a vote decide whether it should be or not be displayed per her peers and fellow students in the situation ? I don't buy your excuse on this, so sorry...

Because she does not want to force her religious beliefs on someone else and expects the same courtesy

Your definition of force seems pretty lame, RW.

 

[beagle9]

You use lables, even though you know not who I am or anything about me, cept what you see here in a few words as spoken,

I know enough about your opinions to label you a Dominionist, so stop complaining.

but I will say this to you, that if this nation continues to use the corrupt tactics that it has been using to get this nation to where it is today, then the silenced majority will not be heard at this election either. Why(?), because the vote will be compromised with all the games that the devil who now resides in certain powerful people, does know far to well these days, and so the real majority are pushed back again in this nation, as the nation will decline futher and further as a result of.

I don't t hink it is hopeless, but it might be....B/

So you basically say the elections that you win are because the majority was heard, and the ones that you lose are because of a conspiracy. Do you recognize how ridiculous that sounds?

So you are basically saying that me as a white man along with the blacks who are in this nation, are somehow ignorant when it comes to the knowledge learned over time about election fraud, in which has gone on or is still going on in this nation to some degree?

 

[beagle9]

Ok....if this is the case we are talking about, it is a blatant violation of the school prayer edict. Your religion has no place in public schools. It does as much to protect your children as it does an Atheists

I don't see it that way. It was a gift to the school by the graduating class of 1963. It's now part of their history. All of a sudden, more than 50 years later, it's wrong to display it?

In 1963 you could hold public prayer in school and many schools opened the day with the Lords prayer.

The mural was a throwback to an earlier era and should have come down decades ago

Says who?

 

[Crackerjack]

I heard on the news today, about a teen who is 16 years old, and for whom had somehow teamed up with the ACLU against her school by way of a lawsuit, because the school had a banner that had religious words upon it, in which was displayed for all to read in the school I'm guessing.

Now this is what rubs me wrong with cases like this, where as you have this gullable teen and the ACLU, along with an idiot judge, for whom I think does not take at all into consideration, the very democracy for which we all try to live with and live for in this nation, where as lets say that the school in a whopping 99% wanted the banner to fly in that specific school over the 1% that didnot want it to fly, and where as what if the parents of the children wanted that banner to fly also, yet you have "ONE", and her accomplices for money representing her in an evil mean spirited way, overiding the school, it's majority in staff, and it's majority in students, for whom want the banner to stay, along with the parents well wishes also in the situation, to then somehow override and kill the will and the rights of the people & students in a majority, and this be it the whole lot of them, by way of "ONE" who had a problem with it ????????

Kidding me right?????? Has this nation finally lost it's mind completely ??????

Yes, it might be good if the government gets out of most everything anymore in this nation that pertains to our social economic situation now , because it (the feds) are being used by devils to destroy the very fabric and slim goodness that is left in this nation, and this by devils whom have figured this sort of evilness out against the ones who are still good and for whom are now left in many cases such as this one, as still a majority..

The majority does not define rights for everyone else.

If the majority chose to repeal the First Amendment, you would be bitching and moaning about being persecuted.

Nor does the minority define rights for everyone, but in this case just one did with the help of an idiot out of touch (with the majority) judge, and the out of whack commie ACLU..

Have you read the Constitution recently? It talks about the rights of people, not of majorities and/or minorities.

 

[beagle9]

U.S. District Judge Ronald Lagueux rejected in his ruling on Wednesday the school's claims that the message in the mural, which opens with "Our Heavenly Father" and closes with "Amen," was purely secular.

"No amount of debate can make the School Prayer anything other than a prayer, and a Christian one at that," Lagueux wrote in a 40-page opinion.

Court orders removal of school prayer mural | Reuters

Original Intent falls victim to the flavor of the day.

I don't care what the banner said, it was a gift from the class of 1963 and has been hanging in the school for 49 years, now all of a sudden it's unconstitutional?

Glad I'm not a member of the class of 1963, I'd be asking for my money back plus interest for that gift to the school that 49 years later, they've decided to throw back in my face.

They didn't decide to, they were ordered to, big difference.... I get your point though, and agree with it..

 

[beagle9]

How have this girl's rights been violated?

"Our heavenly father"

If the banner had started "Praise Allah" would it be acceptable?

Considering it's been hanging there for 49 years, I think if it started "Praise Satan" it would be acceptable.

These days it probably most likely would..

 

[beagle9]

I can't understand why religious zealots would insist on pushing their religious beliefs in a public school. School children are a captive audience.

How would you react if your child came home and told you her atheist teacher had told the class there was no god?

How would you react if your child came home and told you that they had been kneeling on prayer rugs twice a day and praying to Allah and she asked if she could do it at home too?

Religious zealots? The entire class of 1963? If the class of 1963 had given any other banner to the school and it had been displayed for more than 50 years, I would still be in favor of the school keeping the banner. Your other options aren't even close to what happened. A banner, given by a graduation class more than 50 years ago has now been banned from the school. If it said, the devil is king, I would still think the school had a right to display it.

It was perfectly allowable in 1963, so was segregation

And your point being?

 

[Crackerjack]

Ok, so if my sons & their friends are playing in the yard let's say, and a neighbor kid comes over and ((demands)) that they play the game a different way, and this all because he is offended, and isn't capable to play it the way that they have been playing, so does my sons and their friends change the game based upon the kids ((demands)), and this even if he goes and gets his father (i.e. the ACLU) to defend him when they don't change due his being offended and/or demands given, or do they say to the kid "sorry" but we play the game this way, and it is up to you to learn it that way, and if need be, we can help you learn it that away if you want us to, but no we will not change on your ((demand))?

Now if the kid came into the yard, and looked as if he really wanted to play the game, but was scared to play in the way that it was being played, and then he (((ASKED))) if they could change the game up a little bit, in order that he fit into the game also, then I bet the response would be "yes we will change it up a bit, just so you can play as well with us, so welcome aboard my friend". This is how it should work in America, but for some un-Godly reasons it hasn't been working in America, so the game is changed against the majorities will, thus dragging everyone down to a level that is pushing this nation back into the stone ages because of, yet the idiotic government and it's idiotic activist judges can't seem to figure this one out for some reason.

I thought you didn't deal in hypotheticals?

Your analogy is incorrect. The rules haven't changed. Congress still shall not make a law establishing religion. This right is still incorporated against the states. It has simply been applied per precedent to the situation at hand. That is how it should work in America. If you want a school with a religious document on the wall, by all means use your own money and start one. However, if you want to use tax dollars to fund a school open to the public, it is going to be a religiously neutral environment. If you want your children to learn about religion, nothing is stopping you from discussing it until you are blue in the face at home, or in the car, or at church.

I have chosen to enroll my daughter in a public school. I want her to grow up in religion, so I expose her to the religion of my choice and see that she follows the dictates of proper worship. Regardless of the percentage of the population that follows my particular religion, I have no right to dictate to her school that they must also follow along in the dictates of that religion, and according to the Bill of Rights, neither does anyone else. And that is the way it should be. If you're so bad at proselytizing for your religion that you have to invade the public schools with it, that's your fault, not the government's.

It's pretty simple to understand why this is necessary if you remove the Christian aspect of the story and insert Islam in instead. However, that's a mental exercise that you won't do because you know it wipes out your "majority" Dominionist argument.

 

[hortysir]

I heard on the news today, about a teen who is 16 years old, and for whom had somehow teamed up with the ACLU against her school by way of a lawsuit, because the school had a banner that had religious words upon it, in which was displayed for all to read in the school I'm guessing.

Now this is what rubs me wrong with cases like this, where as you have this gullable teen and the ACLU, along with an idiot judge, for whom I think does not take at all into consideration, the very democracy for which we all try to live with and live for in this nation, where as lets say that the school in a whopping 99% wanted the banner to fly in that specific school over the 1% that didnot want it to fly, and where as what if the parents of the children wanted that banner to fly also, yet you have "ONE", and her accomplices for money representing her in an evil mean spirited way, overiding the school, it's majority in staff, and it's majority in students, for whom want the banner to stay, along with the parents well wishes also in the situation, to then somehow override and kill the will and the rights of the people & students in a majority, and this be it the whole lot of them, by way of "ONE" who had a problem with it ????????

Kidding me right?????? Has this nation finally lost it's mind completely ??????

Yes, it might be good if the government gets out of most everything anymore in this nation that pertains to our social economic situation now , because it (the feds) are being used by devils to destroy the very fabric and slim goodness that is left in this nation, and this by devils whom have figured this sort of evilness out against the ones who are still good and for whom are now left in many cases such as this one, as still a majority..

One fucking period in that entire post.


Whereas is one word.

Apostrophes have a purpose.



And, to the bolded part?
I refer you to the article cited:
Lynette Labinger, a volunteer lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union who represented Ahlquist, praised the judge for recognizing that Supreme Court precedent.


Now, all that being said;
It was a PRAYER.
Prayer in school is not allowed (period).

 

[beagle9]

How is it forcing a belief on her?

It isn’t, but that’s not the issue.

She has every right to look away, while another has every right to enjoy the view. Now if the banner was speaking to her, and saying that if you don't look at me, you will go to hell, then I can see there being a problem maybe, but that is not what was happening was it? Besides the banner had been in place since the 40's ? I feel so sorry for all those children that banner had sent to Hell...

It makes no difference how long the banner was present, just as it makes no difference the majority approves of the banner.

What do you mean, she didn't get her way?

The banner was in violation of the Establishment Clause long before the girl raised the issue – again, it’s not about the girl or what she wants, it’s only about the Constitution and its case law. Anyone could have questioned the banner’s constitutionality – indeed, it was incumbent upon the administration to remove the banner on its own, not because of a lawsuit.

The old tactic as is used, seperate the culprit from the crime by the defense, in order to somehow fool the jury upon this tactic as is used in the way that it was just now by you.

Are you a radical leftist defense lawyer by chance? If so, you are probably one of those who would defend Jeffery Dalmer against his victims families in court now wouldn't you?

She is no Jeffery Dalmer, but her defense team is acting in her defense as if she is some kind of high profile case, when all she is, is just a lone student who has been picked up by the ACLU, for whom used her (IMHO) to try and defeat Christianity in America one more time, by adding just one more knotch upon their belts in such cases as they so choose to represent these days.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't see it that way. It was a gift to the school by the graduating class of 1963. It's now part of their history. All of a sudden, more than 50 years later, it's wrong to display it?

In 1963 you could hold public prayer in school and many schools opened the day with the Lords prayer.

The mural was a throwback to an earlier era and should have come down decades ago

Says who?

The US Supreme Court

 

[beagle9]

So are "Whites only" signs

They came down in 1963 also

This banner has been up for 49 years. All of a sudden because of one bratty girl, they have to take it down. It's a highschool for goodness sake.. do you really belive that banner is going to influence anyone not already a Christian to say a Christian prayer?

Would a "whites only" sign really hurt anyone? It's been 49 years

No comparison or even found within the same topic, so pleasee try not to make yourself look a fool here...Ok

 

[rightwinger]

Religious zealots? The entire class of 1963? If the class of 1963 had given any other banner to the school and it had been displayed for more than 50 years, I would still be in favor of the school keeping the banner. Your other options aren't even close to what happened. A banner, given by a graduation class more than 50 years ago has now been banned from the school. If it said, the devil is king, I would still think the school had a right to display it.

It was perfectly allowable in 1963, so was segregation

And your point being?

Point being it is no longer allowable