American Exceptionalism

[Bfgrn]

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

Germany's "exceptionalism" led to war...

America's "exceptionalism" led to war...

And war leads to killing... God does not see killing as exceptional...


"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
Gandhi

 

[Murf76]

i understand the concept, that is why i can see the pitfalls and reject it. the concept is neither new nor unique. as i wrote, if it helps getting you or anyone through a bad day, have at it, but don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone not belonging to your "tribe".

You realize, of course, that you are living proof of the truth in Reagan's Freedom Quote.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."



I don't know you save by your posts on this thread. But they read like they were written by an ungrateful, angst-filled teen, one who maligns and criticizes from the safety of his ivory tower, never appreciating that it was provided to him through the hard work and blood sacrifice of others.

 

[L.K.Eder]

i understand the concept, that is why i can see the pitfalls and reject it. the concept is neither new nor unique. as i wrote, if it helps getting you or anyone through a bad day, have at it, but don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone not belonging to your "tribe".

You realize, of course, that you are living proof of the truth in Reagan's Freedom Quote.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."



I don't know you save by your posts on this thread. But they read like they were written by an ungrateful, angst-filled teen, one who maligns and criticizes from the safety of his ivory tower, never appreciating that it was provided to him through the hard work and blood sacrifice of others.

spare me. appeal to ronald and coughing up the word "freedom" has no effect on me besides mild amusement mixed with mild annoyance.

 

[Samson]

spare me. appeal to ronald and coughing up the word "freedom" has no effect on me besides mild amusement mixed with mild annoyance.

Obama praised Reagan in his Nobel Acceptance Speach.

 

[Bfgrn]

i understand the concept, that is why i can see the pitfalls and reject it. the concept is neither new nor unique. as i wrote, if it helps getting you or anyone through a bad day, have at it, but don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone not belonging to your "tribe".

You realize, of course, that you are living proof of the truth in Reagan's Freedom Quote.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."



I don't know you save by your posts on this thread. But they read like they were written by an ungrateful, angst-filled teen, one who maligns and criticizes from the safety of his ivory tower, never appreciating that it was provided to him through the hard work and blood sacrifice of others.

Reagan ALSO said:

"The defense policy of the United States is based on a simple premise: The United States does not start fights. We will never be an aggressor."

AND...

"No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology."

 

[Murf76]

spare me. appeal to ronald and coughing up the word "freedom" has no effect on me besides mild amusement mixed with mild annoyance.

Freedom annoys you?

And yet here you are... exercising your unwanted freedom by sharing your execrable opinion with us. Maybe you'd like to do that from, say... Communist China? Oh wait... you can't.

 

[Murf76]

Reagan ALSO said:

"The defense policy of the United States is based on a simple premise: The United States does not start fights. We will never be an aggressor."

AND...

"No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology."

Are we colonizing Iraq and Afghanistan then? Are we pillaging their economies? Because if we are, I hadn't heard it.

Consider the key-words in the first of Reagan's quotes... "defense policy". Whether one agrees with G.W.'s decision to go forward with preemptive war in Iraq or not... it was done as a matter of "defense". The decision was made under the belief that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons and that he would most likely use them. Congress agreed with that line of thought and authorized military force. And as you know.. that authorization included a decidedly large number of Democrats as well as Republicans.

 

[L.K.Eder]

spare me. appeal to ronald and coughing up the word "freedom" has no effect on me besides mild amusement mixed with mild annoyance.

Obama praised Reagan in his Nobel Acceptance Speach.

so what? the whole obama gets nobel peace prize-episode is a farce.

 

[L.K.Eder]

spare me. appeal to ronald and coughing up the word "freedom" has no effect on me besides mild amusement mixed with mild annoyance.

Freedom annoys you?

And yet here you are... exercising your unwanted freedom by sharing your execrable opinion with us. Maybe you'd like to do that from, say... Communist China? Oh wait... you can't.

yer one of them thar speshial posters, kwim.

 

[Murf76]

yer one of them thar speshial posters, kwim.

Nope. I have no idea what you mean. But I assume you're just lashing out in anger because you don't have a worthy point to discuss.

So... I wish you enjoyment of your day. And will continue on in my own, in the optimistic belief that people do learn, grow, and eventually develop grace.

 

[uscitizen]

Reagan ALSO said:

"The defense policy of the United States is based on a simple premise: The United States does not start fights. We will never be an aggressor."

AND...

"No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology."

Are we colonizing Iraq and Afghanistan then? Are we pillaging their economies? Because if we are, I hadn't heard it.

Consider the key-words in the first of Reagan's quotes... "defense policy". Whether one agrees with G.W.'s decision to go forward with preemptive war in Iraq or not... it was done as a matter of "defense". The decision was made under the belief that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons and that he would most likely use them. Congress agreed with that line of thought and authorized military force. And as you know.. that authorization included a decidedly large number of Democrats as well as Republicans.

Yes we pillaged Iraq's economy. Just compare economic conditions before we invaded with after.
Afganistan however has been enjoying bumper opium harvests since we went in there.

 

[Murf76]

Yes we pillaged Iraq's economy. Just compare economic conditions before we invaded with after.
Afganistan however has been enjoying bumper opium harvests since we went in there.

Where's all the money then? How come we can't use that "pillaged" dough to finance Obama's social welfare and bring down our deficit?

I'm out of time for lengthly discussion now... but I'll look forward to your accounting of all the cash we've accrued on our overseas pillaging when I return.

 

[Bfgrn]

Reagan ALSO said:

"The defense policy of the United States is based on a simple premise: The United States does not start fights. We will never be an aggressor."

AND...

"No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology."

Are we colonizing Iraq and Afghanistan then? Are we pillaging their economies? Because if we are, I hadn't heard it.

Consider the key-words in the first of Reagan's quotes... "defense policy". Whether one agrees with G.W.'s decision to go forward with preemptive war in Iraq or not... it was done as a matter of "defense". The decision was made under the belief that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons and that he would most likely use them. Congress agreed with that line of thought and authorized military force. And as you know.. that authorization included a decidedly large number of Democrats as well as Republicans.

And 5 Star General and President Dwight D. Eisenhower said:

"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing."

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

Germany's "exceptionalism" led to war...

America's "exceptionalism" led to war...

And war leads to killing... God does not see killing as exceptional...

 

[Samson]

Yes we pillaged Iraq's economy. Just compare economic conditions before we invaded with after.
Afganistan however has been enjoying bumper opium harvests since we went in there.

Where's all the money then? How come we can't use that "pillaged" dough to finance Obama's social welfare and bring down our deficit?

I'm out of time for lengthly discussion now... but I'll look forward to your accounting of all the cash we've accrued on our overseas pillaging when I return.

Before 1990, the economy of Iraq was growing faster compared to the other countries of the Arab world. The standard of education and health care was relatively high. During the 80s, the gross domestic product of Iraq went very high by reason of the oil business. But after 1990, the economic conditions declined continually, mainly because of war. In 2000, the life expectancy in this country came down to 61 years, which was very low in comparison with the other middle east countries. However, the rebuilding process is still going on through several reforms and the United Nation's Development Programs.

Iraq Economy, Iraq Economic Profile, Iraqi Economy, Iraq's Economy

US Economy, US Economic Profile, American Economy, United States Economy, American Economic Profile, USA Economy, Economy of the United States

 

[geauxtohell]

"(Enter country here) exceptionalism" leads nations to disaster.

Nice to see Cheney is a big advocate for it though. Considering that he was the intellectual force behind one of the worst administrations in American history.

"American Exceptionalism" is not defined as a simple matter of national patriotism.
(Perhaps that's why the OP went to the trouble of providing links to better explain the term before entering into discussion.)

American Exceptionalism has more to do with the "exceptional" system of government our founders provided to us. This is a system which lacks the class devisions of typical governments of the age and emphasized the equality of the individual as well as his unalienable natural rights. It was the "exception" to the rule of the day.

And even now, it still has the potential to remain "exceptional". That is, if we can stop the socialist movement from destroying it.

I know, and that's the problem. "Exceptionalism" leads to people who think "it can't happen here" or "my country, right or wrong.".

Those are both dangerous thoughts, because they give countries a blank check to do terrible things.

There is nothing inherent in the American genetic pool that's makes us more moral or exceptional than other people. I am proud of my country, but I won't follow it blindly.

A good read on this is "They Thought They Were Free" by Meyer, which is about the Germans.

The clash of German exceptionalism with the humiliation of Versailles allowed the Nazis to take power. No one should have been surprised at the evils meted out by Hitler. I told the world exactly what he would do. The real question is, how did he ever end up in power to begin with?

 

[uscitizen]

Yes we pillaged Iraq's economy. Just compare economic conditions before we invaded with after.
Afganistan however has been enjoying bumper opium harvests since we went in there.

Where's all the money then? How come we can't use that "pillaged" dough to finance Obama's social welfare and bring down our deficit?

I'm out of time for lengthly discussion now... but I'll look forward to your accounting of all the cash we've accrued on our overseas pillaging when I return.

Ask Shooter Cheney. He said that Iraqs oil revenues would pay for their reconstruction.

And many fools actually believed him.

 

[uscitizen]

Yes we pillaged Iraq's economy. Just compare economic conditions before we invaded with after.
Afganistan however has been enjoying bumper opium harvests since we went in there.

Where's all the money then? How come we can't use that "pillaged" dough to finance Obama's social welfare and bring down our deficit?

I'm out of time for lengthly discussion now... but I'll look forward to your accounting of all the cash we've accrued on our overseas pillaging when I return.

Before 1990, the economy of Iraq was growing faster compared to the other countries of the Arab world. The standard of education and health care was relatively high. During the 80s, the gross domestic product of Iraq went very high by reason of the oil business. But after 1990, the economic conditions declined continually, mainly because of war. In 2000, the life expectancy in this country came down to 61 years, which was very low in comparison with the other middle east countries. However, the rebuilding process is still going on through several reforms and the United Nation's Development Programs.

Iraq Economy, Iraq Economic Profile, Iraqi Economy, Iraq's Economy

US Economy, US Economic Profile, American Economy, United States Economy, American Economic Profile, USA Economy, Economy of the United States

Of course those figures look good for Iraq. How many hundreds of billions did we dump there?

Remember the pallets of money laying around and billions of it unaccounted for?

 

[geauxtohell]

I'm no believer in Newspeak definitions. I AM a believer in American exceptionalism. We are exceptional.

Isn't "exceptionalism" a subjective determination? I'm sure your mother thinks you are exceptional. Florida thinks Tim Tebow is exceptional. Of course, Texas thinks Colt McCoy is far more exceptional than Tebow.....while we in Oklahoma know that Sam Bradford is more exceptional than Tebow and McCoy combined. As a Baptist, I find my Christian denomination exceptional to all others. I know some Methodists who think their denomination is exceptional.

Isn't exceptionalism in the eye of the beholder?

Doesn't the claim of exceptionalism smack of ego and arrogance?

You bet it smacks of that. We are arrogant and have an ego for good reason.

At times like these I'm reminded of some of P.J. O'Rourke's words:

"Back in London…one more person started in on the Stars and Stripes. Eventually he got, as the Europeans always do, to the part about 'Your country's never been invaded.' (This fellow had been two during the Blitz, you see.) 'You don't know the horror, the suffering. You think that war is…'

"I snapped.

"A John Wayne movie' I said. 'That's what you were going to say, isn't it? We think war is a John Wayne movie-with good guys and bad guys, as simple as that. Well, you know something, Mister Limey Poofter? You're right. And let me tell you who those bad guys are. They're us. WE BE BAD.'

"We're the baddest-assed sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. We're three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and descended from a stock market crash on our mother's side. You take your Germany, France and Spain, roll them all together and it won't give us room to park our cars. We're the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap d'Antibes. And we've got an American Express credit card limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go.'

"You say our country's never been invaded? You're right, little buddy. Because I'd like to see the needle-dicked foreigners who'd have the guts to try. We drink napalm to get our hearts started in the morning. A rape and a mugging is our way of saying 'Cheerio'. Hell can't hold our sock-hops. We walk taller, talk louder, spit further, fuck longer, and buy more things than you know the names of. I'd rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than the king, queen, and jack of all you Europeans. We eat little counties like this for breakfast and shit them out before lunch.'

"Of course, the guy should have punched me. But this was Europe. He just smiled his shabby, superior European smile."

-P.J. O'Rourke - Holidays in Hell - Page 203​

Oh well. When it comes to my country, the USA, you bet your ass I am arrogant and you bet your ass we have an ego. And my arrogance on that isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I liked Holidays In Hell and think O'Rourke is funny. Despite the occasional flashes of jingoism. BTW, you didn't detect a degree of sarcasm in that rant?

 

[geauxtohell]

Its always amazing how people on the left want to attack America whenever someone says American exceptionalism so the next time we say you hate America stop denying it and show us one time when you actually defended this country's name or didn't join in the America bashing started by someone else.

1.) Where did I "attack" my country? Pointing out that I don't think we have some sort of inherent quality that makes us immune to acting in bad faith is an attack?

2.) I defended this country's name in Afghanistan. Not that I have to explain myself to you.

3.) I'll join in any form of dialogue that I see fit. Do you think I care about your estimation of my patriotism or anything else?

 

[Samson]

Where's all the money then? How come we can't use that "pillaged" dough to finance Obama's social welfare and bring down our deficit?

I'm out of time for lengthly discussion now... but I'll look forward to your accounting of all the cash we've accrued on our overseas pillaging when I return.

Before 1990, the economy of Iraq was growing faster compared to the other countries of the Arab world. The standard of education and health care was relatively high. During the 80s, the gross domestic product of Iraq went very high by reason of the oil business. But after 1990, the economic conditions declined continually, mainly because of war. In 2000, the life expectancy in this country came down to 61 years, which was very low in comparison with the other middle east countries. However, the rebuilding process is still going on through several reforms and the United Nation's Development Programs.

Iraq Economy, Iraq Economic Profile, Iraqi Economy, Iraq's Economy

US Economy, US Economic Profile, American Economy, United States Economy, American Economic Profile, USA Economy, Economy of the United States

Of course those figures look good for Iraq. How many hundreds of billions did we dump there?

Remember the pallets of money laying around and billions of it unaccounted for?

The chart is for US real GDP.

Really, the only conclusion that I can make from comparing economic data of the USA and Iraq is that Both the USA and Iraq are fucked up.