American Exceptionalism

[Murf76]

Ask Shooter Cheney. He said that Iraqs oil revenues would pay for their reconstruction.

And many fools actually believed him.

Apparently, you're one of them.
If we looted the country... where's the money? How come we're not rolling in dough?

Honestly, this oft-spoken liberal accusation of "American Imperialism" doesn't quite hold water, does it? Because one would think that such aggressive, determined "Imperialists" wouldn't suck quite so badly at it.

War for oil? War for wealth? Where's the oil and the wealth?? Really, if we're going to go out "pillaging"... I think we ought to get something for the trouble, don't you?

 

[Oscar Wao]

Ask Shooter Cheney. He said that Iraqs oil revenues would pay for their reconstruction.

And many fools actually believed him.

Apparently, you're one of them.
If we looted the country... where's the money? How come we're not rolling in dough?

Honestly, this oft-spoken liberal accusation of "American Imperialism" doesn't quite hold water, does it? Because one would think that such aggressive, determined "Imperialists" wouldn't suck quite so badly at it.

War for oil? War for wealth? Where's the oil and the wealth?? Really, if we're going to go out "pillaging"... I think we ought to get something for the trouble, don't you?

Forget Iraq.

How's 'bout this for the "Imperialist" accusation:

Bases around the world.

 

[uscitizen]

Iraq Economy, Iraq Economic Profile, Iraqi Economy, Iraq's Economy

US Economy, US Economic Profile, American Economy, United States Economy, American Economic Profile, USA Economy, Economy of the United States

Of course those figures look good for Iraq. How many hundreds of billions did we dump there?

Remember the pallets of money laying around and billions of it unaccounted for?

The chart is for US real GDP.

Really, the only conclusion that I can make from comparing economic data of the USA and Iraq is that Both the USA and Iraq are fucked up.

I can agree with that. After all we did attempt to remake Iraq in our own image.

 

[uscitizen]

Ask Shooter Cheney. He said that Iraqs oil revenues would pay for their reconstruction.

And many fools actually believed him.

Apparently, you're one of them.
If we looted the country... where's the money? How come we're not rolling in dough?

Honestly, this oft-spoken liberal accusation of "American Imperialism" doesn't quite hold water, does it? Because one would think that such aggressive, determined "Imperialists" wouldn't suck quite so badly at it.

War for oil? War for wealth? Where's the oil and the wealth?? Really, if we're going to go out "pillaging"... I think we ought to get something for the trouble, don't you?

Umm many US industries and business made billions off of Iraq.
And still are.

200,000 contractors in Iraq.
new equipemnt, etc.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Ask Shooter Cheney. He said that Iraqs oil revenues would pay for their reconstruction.

And many fools actually believed him.

Apparently, you're one of them.
If we looted the country... where's the money? How come we're not rolling in dough?

Honestly, this oft-spoken liberal accusation of "American Imperialism" doesn't quite hold water, does it? Because one would think that such aggressive, determined "Imperialists" wouldn't suck quite so badly at it.

War for oil? War for wealth? Where's the oil and the wealth?? Really, if we're going to go out "pillaging"... I think we ought to get something for the trouble, don't you?

, some definitely got something for the trouble. hilarious that you think you should be one of them. it can't get much more naive than that. as if the alleged war for oil would be designed to help the average american.

 

[Murf76]

I know, and that's the problem. "Exceptionalism" leads to people who think "it can't happen here" or "my country, right or wrong.".

Those are both dangerous thoughts, because they give countries a blank check to do terrible things.

There is nothing inherent in the American genetic pool that's makes us more moral or exceptional than other people. I am proud of my country, but I won't follow it blindly.

A good read on this is "They Thought They Were Free" by Meyer, which is about the Germans.

The clash of German exceptionalism with the humiliation of Versailles allowed the Nazis to take power. No one should have been surprised at the evils meted out by Hitler. I told the world exactly what he would do. The real question is, how did he ever end up in power to begin with?

While I appreciate your point... I do believe that there is a widely-held misunderstanding of the term, particularly as it applies to "American Exceptionalism". And to be candid... sometimes I think that the misunderstanding is deliberately propagated.

"Exceptionalism" in this instance doesn't mean "better than everyone else"... it just means "different than everyone else". ie. NOT a monarchy. And NOT a class system.
But no matter how many time that's explained, here we are, something like 8 pages in, with people still rabidly posting about how America is not "special".

One is forced to conclude that some folks are either being deliberately obtuse, or that they have a reading comprehension disability. A sad state of affairs in either case.

 

[Si modo]

small petty people who think they appear bigger when they fill their empty heads and lives with nationalistic pride are misguided and get laughed at by me.

You're still cute. The little folks usually are, especially when they cry about it.

i enjoy seeing your stumbling and bumbling approach trying to reach me in your usual ham-fisted manner, wherein both fist are filled with balsa-wooden spoons.

LOL. I don't care if I reach you or not. You're insignificant to me, yet entertaining, in a sort of pathetically cute way that Lilliputians are.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What truth said was that the reason why the 911 attacks happened were because we were lying to ourselves and the rest of the world. Obviously us denying how others might feel about us leads to those attacks. That is what I read and that sounds like that we provoked them into something but what kind of justifiable provocation existed before that other than US citizens liking ourselves other than projecting a false image to the rest of the world?

Do you go around and beat the tar out of people who like themselves or you just don't plain like even thought they might not have done anything to you other than making you angry?

No, what Truth said was that our aggressive foreign policy has made it so that people across the world don't like us, and some of them have enough hate for us that they're willing to attack us over it. I saw no implication that Truth was saying we somehow deserved to be attacked, simply the common sense notion that our actions around the world do have consequences.

In “Escaping Submission,” Egyptian-born Nonie Darwish writes:
“I now belong to the greatest and most moral country that ever existed on the earth. The U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights [practiced in] this graceful country allowed me to practice any religion or no religion and gave me human rights I could only [have] dreamed of under Islam. I am lucky and more than lucky, I am saved. I was never discriminated against even after 9/11.”

Which has nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

[Murf76]

, some definitely got something for the trouble. hilarious that you think you should be one of them. it can't get much more naive than that. as if the alleged war for oil would be designed to help the average american.

Oh, I have no doubt that there are people who've made some dough. There are always folks who "never let a crisis go to waste".

But, if you think we had a whole war, or two whole wars, just so a select few individuals could make some cash.. shouldn't it be no problem to identify and convict them? I mean, if you're one of those Obamabots, who believes the guy can walk on water, shouldn't he have caught these miscreants and punished them by now? He's had almost a year. And he's got all the toys in his possession. So... what's the hold up???

 

[Oscar Wao]

, some definitely got something for the trouble. hilarious that you think you should be one of them. it can't get much more naive than that. as if the alleged war for oil would be designed to help the average american.

Oh, I have no doubt that there are people who've made some dough. There are always folks who "never let a crisis go to waste".

But, if you think we had a whole war, or two whole wars, just so a select few individuals could make some cash.. shouldn't it be no problem to identify and convict them? I mean, if you're one of those Obamabots, who believes the guy can walk on water, shouldn't he have caught these miscreants and punished them by now? He's had almost a year. And he's got all the toys in his possession. So... what's the hold up???

Maybe you need to quit guzzling the Talk Radio kool aid and maybe ponder on this: They may have a couple differences, but they're all playing for the same team.

 

[amrchaos]

The USA is exceptional. Just call me jingo Si modo - it rolls off the tongue nicely. I can think of no better country in the world and I have no problem with thinking that way. Sue me.

Yes, America is exceptional, but we are not refering to the pride we have in our nation, but the dangerous concept of using American military might to shape the world into our own image.


AE foreign policies is the sign of political madness. That is all!!

I'm no believer in Newspeak definitions. I AM a believer in American exceptionalism. We are exceptional.

So is every Hydrogen atom--if you know what to look for.

 

[L.K.Eder]

You're still cute. The little folks usually are, especially when they cry about it.

i enjoy seeing your stumbling and bumbling approach trying to reach me in your usual ham-fisted manner, wherein both fist are filled with balsa-wooden spoons.

LOL. I don't care if I reach you or not. You're insignificant to me, yet entertaining, in a sort of pathetically cute way that Lilliputians are.

didn't i already tell you that you don't have to repeat your weak attempts at making points or attacks in public so that you can convince yourself that they are viable or on target?

golly gee, well yes ,i did that already. are you a sieve-brain with the short-term memory of a common house fly and are unaware of your redundant repettytiveness?

golly gee, there is a valid explanation for your continued flailin&failin. rock on, modster!

 

[Murf76]

Maybe you need to quit guzzling the Talk Radio kool aid and maybe ponder on this: They may have a couple differences, but they're all playing for the same team.

Reading is fundamental, young Paulbot. Where in the thread, did I mention Talk Radio?

 

[Oscar Wao]

Maybe you need to quit guzzling the Talk Radio kool aid and maybe ponder on this: They may have a couple differences, but they're all playing for the same team.

Reading is fundamental, young Paulbot. Where in the thread, did I mention Talk Radio?

Your posts resemble the talking points of major talk hosts.

 

[amrchaos]

Yes, America is exceptional, but we are not refering to the pride we have in our nation, but the dangerous concept of using American military might to shape the world into our own image.


AE foreign policies is the sign of political madness. That is all!!

I'm no believer in Newspeak definitions. I AM a believer in American exceptionalism. We are exceptional.

Isn't "exceptionalism" a subjective determination? I'm sure your mother thinks you are exceptional. Florida thinks Tim Tebow is exceptional. Of course, Texas thinks Colt McCoy is far more exceptional than Tebow.....while we in Oklahoma know that Sam Bradford is more exceptional than Tebow and McCoy combined. As a Baptist, I find my Christian denomination exceptional to all others. I know some Methodists who think their denomination is exceptional.

Isn't exceptionalism in the eye of the beholder?

Doesn't the claim of exceptionalism smack of ego and arrogance?

Yes--if you are trying to use it to justify some external purpose such as an invasion of a foreign nation

No--if you recognize that this is an exceptional nation to live in. Exceptional in terms of the freedoms and opportunities we have.


The question I tend to find in this a question: "How can our fortunes be shared?" The best we can do is show people how it is done, not force them into doing the same.

For it is the participatory of our Republic the reason for our Greatness. I find that it is the offering of our experiences as a nation that is to be granted if we wish to spread peace and prosperity through out the globe. Not Arms nor funds for arms can ensure a lasting peace. Instead, such actions tend to promote wars or threats of violence.

Our nation flourish once rationale understandind of issues are realized after searching through differing perspectives--even of those held by our enemies or people considered a threat. Through our differences, and a past that some may say was bathe in blood, comes a richer and more moral nation that has weathered great threats to our democracy. Threats such as Cataclysmic wars, Social Strife, Great Depressions and even Panics that could have destroyed lesser nations.

We are fortunate. But we should not seek to force our ways onto others. All we can do is hope that other nations can come to the same realizations as we have--or to come to their place understanding in order to aid them in facing the problems they are trying to resolve. Wars and violence should be a last resort--not one due to suspicion or fear, but one in the actual and pure defense of our nation.


A fascists like Cheney can never understand that. Learn Cheney's use of the term "American exceptionalism" and you would come to understand why that "Dick" need to be shunned.

 

[Murf76]

Your posts resemble the talking points of major talk hosts.

Well... I certainly can't be blamed if they follow my lead.
Most days, I think things up waaaayyy before they do.



(I quite like Dr. Paul, btw, being three-quarters Libertarian myself. Although, I do find a Mr. Magoo-like quality about his foreign policy. He'd have probably done much better last election if he had voiced a detailed plan.)

 

[Newby]

Ask Shooter Cheney. He said that Iraqs oil revenues would pay for their reconstruction.

And many fools actually believed him.

Apparently, you're one of them.
If we looted the country... where's the money? How come we're not rolling in dough?

Honestly, this oft-spoken liberal accusation of "American Imperialism" doesn't quite hold water, does it? Because one would think that such aggressive, determined "Imperialists" wouldn't suck quite so badly at it.

War for oil? War for wealth? Where's the oil and the wealth?? Really, if we're going to go out "pillaging"... I think we ought to get something for the trouble, don't you?

Umm many US industries and business made billions off of Iraq.
And still are.

200,000 contractors in Iraq.
new equipemnt, etc.

Paid for by US taxpayers, not the Iraqi economy.

 

[ihopehefails]

Its always amazing how people on the left want to attack America whenever someone says American exceptionalism so the next time we say you hate America stop denying it and show us one time when you actually defended this country's name or didn't join in the America bashing started by someone else.

1.) Where did I "attack" my country? Pointing out that I don't think we have some sort of inherent quality that makes us immune to acting in bad faith is an attack?

2.) I defended this country's name in Afghanistan. Not that I have to explain myself to you.

3.) I'll join in any form of dialogue that I see fit. Do you think I care about your estimation of my patriotism or anything else?

I can't find one post by a single conservative that ever said that Americans are incapable of sin but I can find post by liberals that we have inherited bad qualities such as slavery because liberals seem to go around and want to apolagize for something like slavery as if current living Americans who have not acted "in bad faith" regarding slavery are somehow responsible for it. It seems to me that people on the left want to say that we don't inherit anything that makes us immune from acting in bad faith (witch is true) yet believe we inherit everything that prevents us from acting in good faith such as slavery.

 

[midcan5]

Interesting debate, while we on the left try to bring a bit of the real into the picture, it is not meant to say this American Experiment is not an interesting and positive thing. Now let's live up to it and grant everyone free, excellent education and the right to good healthcare. That would indeed be exceptional, oh, and a fair wage too.

The Problem of American Exceptionalism - Pew Research Center


"Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. 'Patriotism' is its cult." Eric Fromm

"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons." Bertrand Russell

 

[Polk]

"(Enter country here) exceptionalism" leads nations to disaster.

Nice to see Cheney is a big advocate for it though. Considering that he was the intellectual force behind one of the worst administrations in American history.

"American Exceptionalism" is not defined as a simple matter of national patriotism.
(Perhaps that's why the OP went to the trouble of providing links to better explain the term before entering into discussion.)

American Exceptionalism has more to do with the "exceptional" system of government our founders provided to us. This is a system which lacks the class devisions of typical governments of the age and emphasized the equality of the individual as well as his unalienable natural rights. It was the "exception" to the rule of the day.

And even now, it still has the potential to remain "exceptional". That is, if we can stop the socialist movement from destroying it.

To start with the narrow issue you bring up, is our system of government exceptional? Most other nations that configured their government in a manner similar to ours have been rocked by instability and dictatorship. It's telling that when we assist other nations in writing constitutions, we don't suggest they adopt our system.