After GOP wins, Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs.

[bullwinkle]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

I believe Ryan's plan is the same as the basis for HMOs. When you sign up, you get an allotment (voucher?) of X dollars held by the insurer. Over the year, if you empty your bucket and still need care, you pay. Your doc also is restricted to keep your care costs within the assigned value, and if he/she signs a referral to another doc, the payment for the specialist comes out of your doc's allowance. So if you need a dermatologist or respiratory doc, your chances of staying within your allotment are pretty slim. Surgery coverage too has to be approved by the insurer, meaning that instead of a government agency running your healthcare, the insurer does it. If you are healthy with minimal needs this is a good deal. But I remember getting a call once from an HMO reminding a doc I worked with that heart transplants are considered experimental and therefor not covered. So if Medicare is more efficiently run than private insurers with much lower operating costs than HMOs that are more concerned with cost maintenance that patient care, what's the beef?

I am familiar with HMO's. Most people do go to their family dr and get referred to a specialist. An allotment? So lets see in health insurance you can reach the donut hole same as with scripts?

Pay , most seniors on SS live on a fixed income and can't even afford their meds. Lets not talk about disabled people. And yet a multi millionaire who has gov insurance paid by tax payers taxes get his HI paid for and a Cadillac plan as well.

Not all of us were born with a silver spoon. Us baby boomers worked our buts off and we were adults at the age of 26, not children. Ryan needs to go.

First off, Medicare is not run more efficiently. It's less efficient by far.

Second, Medicare only works right now, because private patients (you and me) are being charged a higher price. The main reason our health care costs are so high, is because we're paying for not only our own health care, but also paying for Medicare.

The doctor is charging you a higher price.... and you are paying the Medicare tax. So you are paying for medicare patients two different ways.

Third, Medicare is means tested last I checked. People with more money, pay higher premiums.

Fourth, if you are living on SS, then 1. you did a poor job saving 2. you should get help from your family.

Fifth, if you are waiting on some silver spoon rich person to give up his riches, so you can have free health care, you are going to be bitter and sick for the rest of your life. You need to plan for your own future. Not wait around on your butt for government to fix your life.

It's never happened before. Never happened anywhere in the world. And it won't happen in the future. If you buy the left-wing myth that some policy in government is going to fix your life, you will be a sad person when you die.

You might want to read up why Medicare got started. Putting your money in the market is not an assurance it will be there and with interest rates no one makes much in a bank savings plan. I am fully aware of how Medicare works, we pay FICA which is SS and Medicare our of our paychecks. Seniors and or disable either 65 or 2 years after becoming disabled get on Medicare which then charges a premium. Copays are 20% and there is a deductible for hosp (Part A) and medical (Part B), also one is not forced to take Part B. There will be a 10% penalty for not taking Part B and taking it later in life, why

because insurance is cheaper with the more people who have it. Look at it like group, the bigger the group the less one pays.

Also Part D which came into effect under Bush Jr. which is the script ins plan for those with Medicare. If one does not sign up for it, then there is also a penalty if one decides to later in life.

That is the beauty of the ACA, even healthy people need to get insurance, so its just not all the sick elderly people. This is not some kind of socialism, anymore that SS and Medicare is. Everyone pays what they can afford. One illness can put one in the poorhouse.

The problem is the gov, keep borrowing form SS.

This is one the universal problems with left-wing ideology. You are taking desires and wants, above facts.

It's called math. You can come up with a million reasons why Medicare is needed. And some of them may even be valid. None of that changes the fact that "math" doesn't care.

Right now, I could really use a new car. There are dozens of reasons, valid reasons, why I should have a new car. Better gas mileage. Fewer repairs. Less time in the repair bay missing work. Broke Air Conditioning, messed up shocks and struts. Fit all my kids. And my luggage. Blaw blaw blaw blaw.

The problem is, I don't have the money for it. I don't have the cash to buy a new car. I show up at the dealership with $2,000 in hand, and he's going to laugh at me. I can explain all the millions of reasons why I need a car, deserve the car, and have earned a car..... but if the money I have doesn't equal the cost of a car.... then I don't get a car.

Medicare is not sustainable.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2015 Trustees Report SS Medicare.pdf

According to numerous reports from various groups, and government agencies, including the Trustees of Medicare itself, we have a conservative estimate of $10 Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.

Now you can say all you want about how we need it, we want it, we should have it, and we deserve it and it's required and it's earned, and on and on and on.....

Fact is..... the math doesn't add up. We can't afford the system as it exists. It is not sustainable.

The only question is, do we destroy the entire country.... or reform medicare?

See, I've read up on Greece, and there were people who warned Greece, both from the outside, and inside Greece, that their health care and pension system was not sustainable. The math didn't work. They kept raising taxes, and still the math didn't work. They kept increasing the minimum wages and regulations. And still the math didn't work.

Over and over, the math didn't add up.

But instead of reforming and cutting health care and pensions.... they, like you, paraded their endless excuse of reasons why they paid into it, and so they earned it, and they deserved it, and the wanted it, and had to have it, and they needed it.

Now look at Greece. Companies moved out. Jobs are gone. People are burning wood, because they can't afford gas, and most of the hospitals are closed. Doctors have no medication, and have said (as quoted) "all I can do is tell them how they will die".

Math doesn't care about all your rationals. You either accept it, and change to fit the math, or you refuse and math will destroy your life.

What plan would you suggest as a solution? Can you be specific? It has to be hammered out and explained very carefully because privatization and vouchers are not appealing to those who've lost their shirts in the stock market and/or to healthcare of the past. The offer has to be less chancy than in the hands of speculators. I would value a cogent suggestion agrued out to satisfaction.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Agreed. Some say this is proof of the left's Cloward-Piven strategy.

At any rate, medical costs have skyrocketed primarily due to government intervention. Has anything gone up as much as healthcare costs?

Something must be done, but if Rs try to control it the MSM and libs everywhere will condemn it to fear monger the elderly. So...I suspect nothing will be done during Trump's time.

It should be remembered the Obama and Congress cut Social Security and the MSM and the Left said nothing. Most Americans do not know anything of this cut.

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

Agreed. The FDA and Big Pharma are colluding...which is nothing new as big government and big business collude on most things, which harms 99% of Americans. The MSM also colludes with Big Pharma...as they make millions off all those ads.

It is all very sad but typical of a nation controlled by a big unlimited government, run by corrupt elitist scumbags.

You mean MSNBC, all stations make money off those ads. Then people go to their doctor and say I want this.
Fox and CNN , all stations. Yes they are corrupt elitist scumbags. Insurance companies are as well.

And Obamacare made them all the more powerful and rich.

Good job.

Actually its called the ACA, and do you know anything about it, have you even been on Healthcare.gov site?

It's called a piece of crap.

I've been to all kinds of sites........

And your statement does nothing to address my point.

 

[Penelope]

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

Agreed. The FDA and Big Pharma are colluding...which is nothing new as big government and big business collude on most things, which harms 99% of Americans. The MSM also colludes with Big Pharma...as they make millions off all those ads.

It is all very sad but typical of a nation controlled by a big unlimited government, run by corrupt elitist scumbags.

You mean MSNBC, all stations make money off those ads. Then people go to their doctor and say I want this.
Fox and CNN , all stations. Yes they are corrupt elitist scumbags. Insurance companies are as well.

And Obamacare made them all the more powerful and rich.

Good job.

Actually its called the ACA, and do you know anything about it, have you even been on Healthcare.gov site?

It's called a piece of crap.

I've been to all kinds of sites........

And your statement does nothing to address my point.

Its only one site, and I doubt you know the first thing about it.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Agreed. The FDA and Big Pharma are colluding...which is nothing new as big government and big business collude on most things, which harms 99% of Americans. The MSM also colludes with Big Pharma...as they make millions off all those ads.

It is all very sad but typical of a nation controlled by a big unlimited government, run by corrupt elitist scumbags.

You mean MSNBC, all stations make money off those ads. Then people go to their doctor and say I want this.
Fox and CNN , all stations. Yes they are corrupt elitist scumbags. Insurance companies are as well.

And Obamacare made them all the more powerful and rich.

Good job.

Actually its called the ACA, and do you know anything about it, have you even been on Healthcare.gov site?

It's called a piece of crap.

I've been to all kinds of sites........

And your statement does nothing to address my point.

Its only one site, and I doubt you know the first thing about it.

Who cares what you doubt.

And what does that one site have to do with my claim that on the macro level, the ACA has made the 1% richer ?

 

[Penelope]

You mean MSNBC, all stations make money off those ads. Then people go to their doctor and say I want this.
Fox and CNN , all stations. Yes they are corrupt elitist scumbags. Insurance companies are as well.

And Obamacare made them all the more powerful and rich.

Good job.

Actually its called the ACA, and do you know anything about it, have you even been on Healthcare.gov site?

It's called a piece of crap.

I've been to all kinds of sites........

And your statement does nothing to address my point.

Its only one site, and I doubt you know the first thing about it.

Who cares what you doubt.

And what does that one site have to do with my claim that on the macro level, the ACA has made the 1% richer ?

Now explain how the ACA has made the 1% richer. Really need to read your take on this. I'll be waiting.

 

[edthecynic]

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And why should I have a problem with this ?

You provide no details.

 

[sealybobo]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

"And, yes," he added, "we're going to help you buy insurance."

While the Ryan plan gets rid of the mandate to buy insurance, it otherwise has many provisions that will be familiar to people who know Obamacare. It would offer tax credits to help people pay for insurance. And it would protect people with existing illnesses and medical conditions from being dropped by their health plans.

Thanks Obamacare! Would the Republicans have come up with this without you? So the ACA was a good step in the right direction.

 

[sealybobo]

And why should I have a problem with this ?

You provide no details.

If Americans don't want it, guess what? The Republicans will be glad to take it away.

We shouldn't force millions of Americans to save (SS) for retirement knowing they won't if we don't. And I guess we won't deal with them when they are all old and dying.

And we should just let old people who can't afford healthcare die when they get sick, which is what happened before medicare.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And why should I have a problem with this ?

You provide no details.

If Americans don't want it, guess what? The Republicans will be glad to take it away.

We shouldn't force millions of Americans to save (SS) for retirement knowing they won't if we don't. And I guess we won't deal with them when they are all old and dying.

And we should just let old people who can't afford healthcare die when they get sick, which is what happened before medicare.

I am not totally up on this one, but does Ryan want to take it away or "reform" it ?

Are we saying Americans are to stupid or lazy to save for their retirement ? What does tnat mean ? We will reduce their current quality of life so they can live longer (at a continued poor quality of life) ?

Can you produce something that shows that pre-medicare people died without insurance....something that allows for the advances in technology ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Thanks Obamacare! Would the Republicans have come up with this without you? So the ACA was a good step in the right direction.

On this point, I would agree.

As much as I hate the current UCA (a.k.a. the ACA), there is plenty of room for improvement.

Bush threw away an opportunity to make a pro-active change (and, instead, led us into fruitless stupid wars).

The question is valid.

I really wonder if the GOP has a brain.

And given that they just beat the hell out of the democrats, I have to ask the same question of them.

 

[sealybobo]

And why should I have a problem with this ?

You provide no details.

If Americans don't want it, guess what? The Republicans will be glad to take it away.

We shouldn't force millions of Americans to save (SS) for retirement knowing they won't if we don't. And I guess we won't deal with them when they are all old and dying.

And we should just let old people who can't afford healthcare die when they get sick, which is what happened before medicare.

I am not totally up on this one, but does Ryan want to take it away or "reform" it ?

Are we saying Americans are to stupid or lazy to save for their retirement ? What does tnat mean ? We will reduce their current quality of life so they can live longer (at a continued poor quality of life) ?

Can you produce something that shows that pre-medicare people died without insurance....something that allows for the advances in technology ?

Republicans didn't want to deal with healthcare reform since the 80's. The Democrats forced them to. Is the ACA great? No. But now we see Republicans aren't going to let Insurance companies deny people for pre existing conditions. So I don't know if you would call that repeal or reform. Parts he will keep and the mandate will be gone. But if you get sick we will now have to pay for your sorry asses. Maybe in Ryan's plan the uninsured will be on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars. I hope so.

1 in 3 Americans aren't saving for retirement. They/You are fucked.

I don't have to produce anything for you. SS and Medicare were designed because millions of Americans were dying penniless after working 30 or so years. They weren't able or smart enough to save and we had a lot of poverty, blabla. Why don't you watch a PBS Special on it. LOL. Fact is, millions of Americans needed and want and like ss and medicare. I hope you take it away from them. The ones who didn't vote or voted for Trump deserve you.

 

[Penelope]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

"And, yes," he added, "we're going to help you buy insurance."

While the Ryan plan gets rid of the mandate to buy insurance, it otherwise has many provisions that will be familiar to people who know Obamacare. It would offer tax credits to help people pay for insurance. And it would protect people with existing illnesses and medical conditions from being dropped by their health plans.

Thanks Obamacare! Would the Republicans have come up with this without you? So the ACA was a good step in the right direction.

I don't want them messing with Medicare or SS, also I do not want block grants or vouchers. I do not want to pay for their insurance when they get ill, those who become adults at the age of 27 and think bad health can never happen to them . If one is working they need to get insurance. They will find the ACA was the answer, and the main problem with it was the 19 states that didn't expand Medicaid. I agree with you, finally something was done, but it was not good, why, because it was Democrats who finally did something for the IC and those who do not get insurance at work.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

1 in 3 Americans aren't saving for retirement. They/You are fucked.

Whose fault is that ?

 

[sealybobo]

1 in 3 Americans aren't saving for retirement. They/You are fucked.

Whose fault is that ?

Obamas. LOL.

So the flip flop has already begun. So you really aren't going to help all those people who lost their jobs to NAFTA. Got it. Thanks.

 

[sealybobo]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

"And, yes," he added, "we're going to help you buy insurance."

While the Ryan plan gets rid of the mandate to buy insurance, it otherwise has many provisions that will be familiar to people who know Obamacare. It would offer tax credits to help people pay for insurance. And it would protect people with existing illnesses and medical conditions from being dropped by their health plans.

Thanks Obamacare! Would the Republicans have come up with this without you? So the ACA was a good step in the right direction.

I don't want them messing with Medicare or SS, also I do not want block grants or vouchers. I do not want to pay for their insurance when they get ill, those who become adults at the age of 27 and think bad health can never happen to them . If one is working they need to get insurance. They will find the ACA was the answer, and the main problem with it was the 19 states that didn't expand Medicaid. I agree with you, finally something was done, but it was not good, why, because it was Democrats who finally did something for the IC and those who do not get insurance at work.

A Seat at the Table for Single-Payer

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I don't have to produce anything for you. SS and Medicare were designed because millions of Americans were dying penniless after working 30 or so years. They weren't able or smart enough to save and we had a lot of poverty, blabla. Why don't you watch a PBS Special on it. LOL. Fact is, millions of Americans needed and want and like ss and medicare. I hope you take it away from them. The ones who didn't vote or voted for Trump deserve you.

Are you in grade school or is it a brain injury that causes you to post such stupidity ?

You don't have to produce anything = You don't have anything.

First, let's be clear...the conditions under which SS and Medicare were created were very different.

I have read several books on SS. Not so many on medicare. But enough to know there was a big difference.

SS was created at a time when the elderly were being marginalized due to the changing nature of workforce requirements. They were victims of the times. So that is why they were in poverty. Get your facts straight. Social Security then and now....openly states it should not be your primary basis of retirement. But many did not listen. And why should they ? As late as 1964, Johnson was increasing just to keep the trust fund from getting to large..... And here is a dirty secret. The poor don't benefit as much as those who made more (if that does not seem off to you....I understand...you are not that bright).

Additionally, government pensions were becoming a huge deal throughout the world and the very foundation of capitalism was being attacked.

I would never take S.S. away from those who put into it.

I would slowly transition the system to a government managed personal account.

So shove your platitudes and grown up.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

1 in 3 Americans aren't saving for retirement. They/You are fucked.

Whose fault is that ?

Obamas. LOL.

So the flip flop has already begun. So you really aren't going to help all those people who lost their jobs to NAFTA. Got it. Thanks.

How do you know it is only them.

How can you prove it is them.

Sooner or later, you have to put down the B.S. talking points and take responsibility for your lack of knowledge.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

"And, yes," he added, "we're going to help you buy insurance."

While the Ryan plan gets rid of the mandate to buy insurance, it otherwise has many provisions that will be familiar to people who know Obamacare. It would offer tax credits to help people pay for insurance. And it would protect people with existing illnesses and medical conditions from being dropped by their health plans.

Thanks Obamacare! Would the Republicans have come up with this without you? So the ACA was a good step in the right direction.

I don't want them messing with Medicare or SS, also I do not want block grants or vouchers. I do not want to pay for their insurance when they get ill, those who become adults at the age of 27 and think bad health can never happen to them . If one is working they need to get insurance. They will find the ACA was the answer, and the main problem with it was the 19 states that didn't expand Medicaid. I agree with you, finally something was done, but it was not good, why, because it was Democrats who finally did something for the IC and those who do not get insurance at work.

Can you make me laugh any harder ? I don't think so.

You really think the ACA was the answer ? Why was it sold to us using a pack of lies ?

 

[sealybobo]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

"And, yes," he added, "we're going to help you buy insurance."

While the Ryan plan gets rid of the mandate to buy insurance, it otherwise has many provisions that will be familiar to people who know Obamacare. It would offer tax credits to help people pay for insurance. And it would protect people with existing illnesses and medical conditions from being dropped by their health plans.

Thanks Obamacare! Would the Republicans have come up with this without you? So the ACA was a good step in the right direction.

I don't want them messing with Medicare or SS, also I do not want block grants or vouchers. I do not want to pay for their insurance when they get ill, those who become adults at the age of 27 and think bad health can never happen to them . If one is working they need to get insurance. They will find the ACA was the answer, and the main problem with it was the 19 states that didn't expand Medicaid. I agree with you, finally something was done, but it was not good, why, because it was Democrats who finally did something for the IC and those who do not get insurance at work.

Can you make me laugh any harder ? I don't think so.

You really think the ACA was the answer ? Why was it sold to us using a pack of lies ?

I can't wait for you and Trump to make America great again. LOL. Now I'm beginning to see when that time was that you are talking about. 2000-2008. That's what you mean by "when America was great".