After GOP wins, Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs.

[grbb]

Free market capitalism always work. I am not so sure about patent. Without patent many drug companies will not do R & D at all.

How do you know which drugs are just similar drugs but more expensive? The patients do not know. The doctors know and are often bribed. I am not really sure how free market take care of that. However, regulations won't eliminate that either. This has nothing to do with patents. The one selling more expensive drugs can be a totally different companies with no R & D

As for that sugar pill. any source?

 

[Toro]

Medicare is not sustainable. You want to end up like Greece? Cuba? Venezuela? Soviet Union?

Medicare must be fixed or eliminated. Its called math. Learn some math, and then figure out Medicare is going broke.

Agreed. Some say this is proof of the left's Cloward-Piven strategy.

At any rate, medical costs have skyrocketed primarily due to government intervention. Has anything gone up as much as healthcare costs?

Something must be done, but if Rs try to control it the MSM and libs everywhere will condemn it to fear monger the elderly. So...I suspect nothing will be done during Trump's time.

It should be remembered the Obama and Congress cut Social Security and the MSM and the Left said nothing. Most Americans do not know anything of this cut.

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

Agreed. The FDA and Big Pharma are colluding...which is nothing new as big government and big business collude on most things, which harms 99% of Americans. The MSM also colludes with Big Pharma...as they make millions off all those ads.

It is all very sad but typical of a nation controlled by a big unlimited government, run by corrupt elitist scumbags.

Your conclusion is based on what?

The drug companies we talk to would rather the FDA be much less cumbersome and more efficient.

too funny....the drug companies want EVEN MORE control and you fail to see it.

We talk to the drug companies. That's not what they tell us. It's very expensive and cumbersome.

How did you draw your conclusion?

 

[ScienceRocks]

If anything we need more government in order to stop drug companies from over charging in this country. Doing what they're doing should be illegal.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You need a National Health Service that is free at the point of delivery and available from cradle to the grave.

Good health is a fundamental right and society should not turn its back on the sick because they are poor.

What would Jesus say ?

"Hmmmm, that leper has no insurance. Fuck him."

Really? Name one time in the Bible where Jesus held up rich people, and working people at knife point, confiscated their rightful belongings, and then gave them to the sick people?

Never. Jesus had unlimited healing ability because he was G-d. Of course the G-d of the Universe can heal people endlessly without payment.

Now if you'd like to do that, be my guest. Let's see you heal people without any compensation. Tell me, can you pay your property taxes to the UK government with "good will towards the sick"? Let's see how long that plan will last before you end up homeless.

I've been to the UK. I've seen your system in action. In fact, I know people who were directly told to get health care outside the UK, because it was better here in the US.

I don't want your system of health care. It sucks. Just ask the VA system. They only have to provide health care from military service to grave, and they can't handle that. You want that system imposed on all of us? Terrible.

Your me me me attitude is unchristian and selfish in the extreme. How we treat the vulnerable in our society defines us.

Think about this. If society only values people by the size of their bank balance you are actually creating a jungle. Is it any wonder that you slaughter each other in such numbers ?

 

[Penelope]

You need a National Health Service that is free at the point of delivery and available from cradle to the grave.

Good health is a fundamental right and society should not turn its back on the sick because they are poor.

What would Jesus say ?

"Hmmmm, that leper has no insurance. Fuck him."

Really? Name one time in the Bible where Jesus held up rich people, and working people at knife point, confiscated their rightful belongings, and then gave them to the sick people?

Never. Jesus had unlimited healing ability because he was G-d. Of course the G-d of the Universe can heal people endlessly without payment.

Now if you'd like to do that, be my guest. Let's see you heal people without any compensation. Tell me, can you pay your property taxes to the UK government with "good will towards the sick"? Let's see how long that plan will last before you end up homeless.

I've been to the UK. I've seen your system in action. In fact, I know people who were directly told to get health care outside the UK, because it was better here in the US.

I don't want your system of health care. It sucks. Just ask the VA system. They only have to provide health care from military service to grave, and they can't handle that. You want that system imposed on all of us? Terrible.

I really don't think it is right to bash other people's systems.

Just like I don't want them bashing ours.

Each has it's positives and each has it's negatives.

What needs to happen is for our country to determine what, if anything it wants and then craft a plan after that.

Obamacare is a bust. Pure and simple.

That does not mean we don't have a health care issue in this country.

I'm not sure what you know about the ACA, but its needs tweaking but is good as long as the GOP expands Medicaid, but the GOP is all about making sure the MIC and Corps have money.

 

[Penelope]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

Medicare is popular because people are getting something for nothing. Even if they paid into, just like Social Security, they are taking more out than what they put in (on a time value of money adjusted basis).

So, it is NOT sustainable.

At the same time, those who put in should not get screwed....

If Ryan means phase in over two years or something.....forget it.

No its unconstitutional. Gov taking money people were made to pay in to for years. I am sickened by the GOP position on many things.

Another person who does not know what he is talking about. People who work pay into Medicare for years, and then when they get it, they pay premiums, and also copays of 20% and deductibles. Its not free.

Also most of our debt is owned to the SS account. Borrowing from Peter (SS) to pay Paul(MIC) , so when they tell you SS in unsustainable , tell them to pay it back.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Fuck with Medicare?

You are going to see millions of seniors become liberal purists in about two seconds. THEY will be in the streets marching. Didn't he see the signs at the teabagger rallies that seniors were holding up that said "Keep the government's hands off my medicare?"

This is the thing with Republicans, play out the rope and they hang themselves and each other. Git er done.

 

[Penelope]

Medicare is not sustainable. You want to end up like Greece? Cuba? Venezuela? Soviet Union?

Medicare must be fixed or eliminated. Its called math. Learn some math, and then figure out Medicare is going broke.

Agreed. Some say this is proof of the left's Cloward-Piven strategy.

At any rate, medical costs have skyrocketed primarily due to government intervention. Has anything gone up as much as healthcare costs?

Something must be done, but if Rs try to control it the MSM and libs everywhere will condemn it to fear monger the elderly. So...I suspect nothing will be done during Trump's time.

It should be remembered the Obama and Congress cut Social Security and the MSM and the Left said nothing. Most Americans do not know anything of this cut.

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

That's actually not the problem. Drug companies are always going to run ads, as long as it works. That's not the issue.

The problem is intellectual property rights, which I'm keen to reform.... or eliminate.

When a drug companies has a patent run out on it's drug, whatever drug, the market is usually flooded with generic alternatives that drop the profitability down to zero.

As a result drug companies figure out that if they modified the existing drug ever so slightly, they can get a new patent. This patent allows them to once again produce basically the same thing, but with patent protection, thus allowing profitability.

The problem though is that the original drug is still on the market. So you have two nearly identical drugs, that do the same thing, but one has a high price and one has a low price.

So the question is, how do you get people to use the new slightly more expensive drug, rather than the older cheaper drug, when they do the same thing? Answer: Advertising.

Now the left would love to live in their regulation fantasy world, where you can just pass some regulation to stop this.

That's impossible. While we know the drug companies are doing these actions, it is not possible for us to know with certainty which drugs are simply modified existing drugs, and which are entirely new drugs that do the same thing only better, or even which drugs are being modified with the intention of improving the quality of the drug, rather than just getting a new patent.

Any attempt to regulate away the problem, will only kill off research and development, resulting in less advancement in medications.

The solution is deregulation, by removing intellectual property rights.

By removing patent protections, companies will be forced to both innovate and compete on price, instead of competing at finding the best patent.

On the opposite side, if you try and regulate your way to a better system, you'll end up like France, which hasn't had a significant drug related advancement in over 20 years. All the companies left France, to do R&D elsewhere, and most new drugs are not available in France at all.

Additionally, while advertising spending is significantly lower in France, that doesn't mean the money isn't spent.... it is just directed elsewhere. Instead of spending the money on trying to convince consumers to buy their product, now they spend millions on million trying to convince regulators to buy the product.

The most famous example was a drug that translated roughly "fatty legs" which the company selling it spent millions to convince the French regulators to allow the drug in France, and have the government pay for it. As it turns out after more than a decade on the market, the company attempted to get the FDA to approve it. The FDA declined after they found it was basically a sugar pill... ironic given the name.

If you do the same thing in the US, millions of dollars will flow to the FDA instead of advertising. Either way, the drug company is going to spend money to get someone to buy the pill.

The solution is free-market capitalism. It always works. We should try it.

Do we need new meds, maybe new vaccines. Genetics have been on the market longer and side effects are well known, more preferable to the new meds. All doctors and pharmacies give generics unless stated not to.
Some generics now are still quite expensive. Personally I'd never take a new med unless dying and last chance. A person is better off with no meds.

Well take away Medicare, people pay in for years, and many do not even get to use it. People also pay premiums, deducts and copays. The GOP stand on Medicare come from multi millionaires in congress, and we pay for their health insurance. maybe we should get rid of Congress, they cost us lots of money. 15 people on the Supreme Court maybe can replace them.

 

[JoeB131]

What would Jesus say ?

"Hmmmm, that leper has no insurance. Fuck him."

 

[Andylusion]

Medicare is not sustainable. You want to end up like Greece? Cuba? Venezuela? Soviet Union?

Medicare must be fixed or eliminated. Its called math. Learn some math, and then figure out Medicare is going broke.

Agreed. Some say this is proof of the left's Cloward-Piven strategy.

At any rate, medical costs have skyrocketed primarily due to government intervention. Has anything gone up as much as healthcare costs?

Something must be done, but if Rs try to control it the MSM and libs everywhere will condemn it to fear monger the elderly. So...I suspect nothing will be done during Trump's time.

It should be remembered the Obama and Congress cut Social Security and the MSM and the Left said nothing. Most Americans do not know anything of this cut.

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

That's actually not the problem. Drug companies are always going to run ads, as long as it works. That's not the issue.

The problem is intellectual property rights, which I'm keen to reform.... or eliminate.

When a drug companies has a patent run out on it's drug, whatever drug, the market is usually flooded with generic alternatives that drop the profitability down to zero.

As a result drug companies figure out that if they modified the existing drug ever so slightly, they can get a new patent. This patent allows them to once again produce basically the same thing, but with patent protection, thus allowing profitability.

The problem though is that the original drug is still on the market. So you have two nearly identical drugs, that do the same thing, but one has a high price and one has a low price.

So the question is, how do you get people to use the new slightly more expensive drug, rather than the older cheaper drug, when they do the same thing? Answer: Advertising.

Now the left would love to live in their regulation fantasy world, where you can just pass some regulation to stop this.

That's impossible. While we know the drug companies are doing these actions, it is not possible for us to know with certainty which drugs are simply modified existing drugs, and which are entirely new drugs that do the same thing only better, or even which drugs are being modified with the intention of improving the quality of the drug, rather than just getting a new patent.

Any attempt to regulate away the problem, will only kill off research and development, resulting in less advancement in medications.

The solution is deregulation, by removing intellectual property rights.

By removing patent protections, companies will be forced to both innovate and compete on price, instead of competing at finding the best patent.

On the opposite side, if you try and regulate your way to a better system, you'll end up like France, which hasn't had a significant drug related advancement in over 20 years. All the companies left France, to do R&D elsewhere, and most new drugs are not available in France at all.

Additionally, while advertising spending is significantly lower in France, that doesn't mean the money isn't spent.... it is just directed elsewhere. Instead of spending the money on trying to convince consumers to buy their product, now they spend millions on million trying to convince regulators to buy the product.

The most famous example was a drug that translated roughly "fatty legs" which the company selling it spent millions to convince the French regulators to allow the drug in France, and have the government pay for it. As it turns out after more than a decade on the market, the company attempted to get the FDA to approve it. The FDA declined after they found it was basically a sugar pill... ironic given the name.

If you do the same thing in the US, millions of dollars will flow to the FDA instead of advertising. Either way, the drug company is going to spend money to get someone to buy the pill.

The solution is free-market capitalism. It always works. We should try it.

Do we need new meds, maybe new vaccines. Genetics have been on the market longer and side effects are well known, more preferable to the new meds. All doctors and pharmacies give generics unless stated not to.
Some generics now are still quite expensive. Personally I'd never take a new med unless dying and last chance. A person is better off with no meds.

Well take away Medicare, people pay in for years, and many do not even get to use it. People also pay premiums, deducts and copays. The GOP stand on Medicare come from multi millionaires in congress, and we pay for their health insurance. maybe we should get rid of Congress, they cost us lots of money. 15 people on the Supreme Court maybe can replace them.

Really?
The DNC stand on Medicare comes from multi-millionaires in congress.

John Delaney-D $111 Million
Jay Rockefeller-D $108 Million
Mark Warner-D $95 Million
Jared Polis-D $73 Million
Richard Blumenthal-D $62 Million
Scott Peters-D $45 Million
Dianne Feinstein-D $43 Million

Need I go on?

Obama has a net worth of $7 Million.

Here's the problem, and the difference between your views and our views.

We're not making up BS crap, to attack the people pushing the policies.

Both the Democrats and the Republicans have their own government run system.

Both sides are not the least bit worried about their own ability to get health care.

So their are only two motivations possible. Getting elected... and what is best for the country.

Which side is pushing for change, based on what is best for the country, regardless of if they get elected? Republicans generally who want to do what they believe is best, even if cutting endless government spending isn't popular.

Which side is pushing to get elected? The Democrats who don't care if socialized health care works, only what is best for them to get reelected back into office.

This is what happened in Greece for 30 years. People warned Greece for decades that they couldn't afford everything they were doing, that the money was running out, that the system wasn't sustainable.

But the left-wingers in Greece didn't care about that. They only cared what would get the people to vote for them, and "I'll give you everything you want" is a great vote getting motto. When the system crashed, where are those politicians in Greece who maintained the endless spending? Oh their fine. They have their yachts and clubs, and mansions. Costas Simitis the very guy who kept the endless spending going, came out in a tux and limousine. He's not hurting like the Greeks who voted for him because he said he wouldn't cut their pensions.

This is exactly why Canadian members of parliament can say they completely and total support maintaining Canada's free health care.... and then fly to the US to pay for health care. with their tax payer funded salaries. It's happened three times now.

See they can doom the entire country to horrific health care, and they'll just fly somewhere else, and get all the health care they need, then fly back to Canada, and say "our system is fantastic".

That's what the Democrats are all about. They'll support free everything, and get all the votes from the ignorant masses, because they know when the system fails, and everything implodes, they'll just do what Castro did. Hire his own personal doctor, and get all the treatment he needs, while the average Cubans die.

If the Democrats get their way, they'll have the same system here, and the little lemmings will sing their praises all the way to the grave.

 

[JoeB131]

This is exactly why Canadian members of parliament can say they completely and total support maintaining Canada's free health care.... and then fly to the US to pay for health care. with their tax payer funded salaries. It's happened three times now.

Okay, that's three rich guys who wanted private rooms.

Hey, I'm sure that under our system, medicine is awesome for the rich. It just kind of sucks for the rest of us... and with the Trumpenfuhrer, it's going to suck a little more.

That's what the Democrats are all about. They'll support free everything, and get all the votes from the ignorant masses, because they know when the system fails, and everything implodes, they'll just do what Castro did. Hire his own personal doctor, and get all the treatment he needs, while the average Cubans die.

If the Democrats get their way, they'll have the same system here, and the little lemmings will sing their praises all the way to the grave.

Uh, guy, then how is it we only have recessions and depressions when REpublicans are in charge?

 

[Andylusion]

This is exactly why Canadian members of parliament can say they completely and total support maintaining Canada's free health care.... and then fly to the US to pay for health care. with their tax payer funded salaries. It's happened three times now.

Okay, that's three rich guys who wanted private rooms.

Hey, I'm sure that under our system, medicine is awesome for the rich. It just kind of sucks for the rest of us... and with the Trumpenfuhrer, it's going to suck a little more.

That's what the Democrats are all about. They'll support free everything, and get all the votes from the ignorant masses, because they know when the system fails, and everything implodes, they'll just do what Castro did. Hire his own personal doctor, and get all the treatment he needs, while the average Cubans die.

If the Democrats get their way, they'll have the same system here, and the little lemmings will sing their praises all the way to the grave.

Uh, guy, then how is it we only have recessions and depressions when REpublicans are in charge?

No, they didn't want to wait years to get treatment like the rest of Canada does.

Our system is best for everyone. Your chances of being diagnosed, treated, and healed under our system is higher than anywhere else in the world, and that applies to everyone. The poorest people here, have a better chance of getting healed here in the US, than anywhere else in the world. Granted, they'll get a bill for it. But better a bill, than to simply die on a waiting list, like our Socialized VA system let our vets die.

First, Republican doesn't mean free-market capitalist. Republican is a political party, not an economy ideology.

Second, it's childish, and small-minded to suggest that every time something bad happens, that it must be exclusively the fault of the person in government.

More intelligent and rational people, look at the policies that led up to the problem.

The sub-prime housing price bubble started in 1997. Before Bush was elected.

This is what is known as a "fact". Using "facts" you can make logical reasoned conclusions that Bush, and Bush policies can't be the cause of a housing bubble that started before he was elected.

Of course that is only something logical and reasoning people do.

As for the great depression, Hoover was a Republican, but his policies were the same as FDR. Much like all of Obama's policies were the exact same policies that Bush pushed in 2008.

And just like how FDRs policies didn't fix the depression, Obama's policies didn't fix the recession.

 

[Agit8r]

If they get their way, it will be replaced by a sort of Winterhilfswerk.

 

[Andylusion]

Free market capitalism always work. I am not so sure about patent. Without patent many drug companies will not do R & D at all.

How do you know which drugs are just similar drugs but more expensive? The patients do not know. The doctors know and are often bribed. I am not really sure how free market take care of that. However, regulations won't eliminate that either. This has nothing to do with patents. The one selling more expensive drugs can be a totally different companies with no R & D

As for that sugar pill. any source?

Well R&D would drop to some extent. But I think based on what I've seen, that I can live with that.

You realize that the whole reason we have the computer revolution today, is because AT&T had their patent on the vacuum tube running out, and had no choice but to create something new. For years, they had that patent, and thus had no reason to design anything new. Then in the year or two before the patent ran out, suddenly they could innovate, and created the transistor, that is the fundamental building block of everything electronic thing we have today.

The lack of a patent, is what pushed them to create.

Drug companies faced with zero patents, will be forced to do R&D, instead of trying modify an existing drug, and keep a patent for another 10 years.

Yes, doctors are essentially bribed to prescribe the new drug over the old drug.

But imagine a system where the new drug didn't have any patent protection. The whole entire reason they have to bribe the doctor to begin with, is because the new drug is exactly the same as the old drug, only it has a patent, and a higher price.

Without the patent, generic alternatives would be available in months. With generics available in months, what use would it be to try and bribe the doctors? It would be pointless. By the time you spent the millions in marketing and getting the drug to the doctors with your kick-back incentives... a generic would come to market, the price would drop to barely over production cost, and all that money would be lost.

The companies would have no choice but to compete on quality and price, and keep innovating to stay one step ahead of the competition.

Yes R&D would drop some. But I think think it would be a good trade off.

 

[JoeB131]

No, they didn't want to wait years to get treatment like the rest of Canada does.

Our system is best for everyone. Your chances of being diagnosed, treated, and healed under our system is higher than anywhere else in the world, and that applies to everyone. The poorest people here, have a better chance of getting healed here in the US, than anywhere else in the world. Granted, they'll get a bill for it. But better a bill, than to simply die on a waiting list, like our Socialized VA system let our vets die.

I think you are delusional. If our system is so much better, than why do we have a higher infant mortality rate and a lower life expectency? Why are 62% of bankruptcies tied to medical crisis?

Again, we have a great system for the rich. FOr everyone else, it kind of sucks. If you ever had to spend a couple of years arguing with an insurance company to get treatment your doctor says you need... you'd know what I was talking about.

 

[JoeB131]

First, Republican doesn't mean free-market capitalist. Republican is a political party, not an economy ideology.

Second, it's childish, and small-minded to suggest that every time something bad happens, that it must be exclusively the fault of the person in government.

More intelligent and rational people, look at the policies that led up to the problem.

Come on, guy... the point was, if you look at your silly little graph, you'd see the absurd inflation in home values happened under Bush. The banking industry found a way to inflate values because they knew that no one would call them on it.

So the banks made loans to people who shouldn't get them, the builders kept building McMansions no one could afford, and everyone thought it was wonderful until the bottom fell out.

Then your side was all, "Not my fault!"

 

[Penelope]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

I believe Ryan's plan is the same as the basis for HMOs. When you sign up, you get an allotment (voucher?) of X dollars held by the insurer. Over the year, if you empty your bucket and still need care, you pay. Your doc also is restricted to keep your care costs within the assigned value, and if he/she signs a referral to another doc, the payment for the specialist comes out of your doc's allowance. So if you need a dermatologist or respiratory doc, your chances of staying within your allotment are pretty slim. Surgery coverage too has to be approved by the insurer, meaning that instead of a government agency running your healthcare, the insurer does it. If you are healthy with minimal needs this is a good deal. But I remember getting a call once from an HMO reminding a doc I worked with that heart transplants are considered experimental and therefor not covered. So if Medicare is more efficiently run than private insurers with much lower operating costs than HMOs that are more concerned with cost maintenance that patient care, what's the beef?

I am familiar with HMO's. Most people do go to their family dr and get referred to a specialist. An allotment? So lets see in health insurance you can reach the donut hole same as with scripts?

Pay , most seniors on SS live on a fixed income and can't even afford their meds. Lets not talk about disabled people. And yet a multi millionaire who has gov insurance paid by tax payers taxes get his HI paid for and a Cadillac plan as well.

Not all of us were born with a silver spoon. Us baby boomers worked our buts off and we were adults at the age of 26, not children. Ryan needs to go.

First off, Medicare is not run more efficiently. It's less efficient by far.

Second, Medicare only works right now, because private patients (you and me) are being charged a higher price. The main reason our health care costs are so high, is because we're paying for not only our own health care, but also paying for Medicare.

The doctor is charging you a higher price.... and you are paying the Medicare tax. So you are paying for medicare patients two different ways.

Third, Medicare is means tested last I checked. People with more money, pay higher premiums.

Fourth, if you are living on SS, then 1. you did a poor job saving 2. you should get help from your family.

Fifth, if you are waiting on some silver spoon rich person to give up his riches, so you can have free health care, you are going to be bitter and sick for the rest of your life. You need to plan for your own future. Not wait around on your butt for government to fix your life.

It's never happened before. Never happened anywhere in the world. And it won't happen in the future. If you buy the left-wing myth that some policy in government is going to fix your life, you will be a sad person when you die.

You might want to read up why Medicare got started. Putting your money in the market is not an assurance it will be there and with interest rates no one makes much in a bank savings plan. I am fully aware of how Medicare works, we pay FICA which is SS and Medicare our of our paychecks. Seniors and or disable either 65 or 2 years after becoming disabled get on Medicare which then charges a premium. Copays are 20% and there is a deductible for hosp (Part A) and medical (Part B), also one is not forced to take Part B. There will be a 10% penalty for not taking Part B and taking it later in life, why

because insurance is cheaper with the more people who have it. Look at it like group, the bigger the group the less one pays.

Also Part D which came into effect under Bush Jr. which is the script ins plan for those with Medicare. If one does not sign up for it, then there is also a penalty if one decides to later in life.

That is the beauty of the ACA, even healthy people need to get insurance, so its just not all the sick elderly people. This is not some kind of socialism, anymore that SS and Medicare is. Everyone pays what they can afford. One illness can put one in the poorhouse.

The problem is the gov, keep borrowing form SS.

 

[Penelope]

Medicare is not sustainable. You want to end up like Greece? Cuba? Venezuela? Soviet Union?

Medicare must be fixed or eliminated. Its called math. Learn some math, and then figure out Medicare is going broke.

Agreed. Some say this is proof of the left's Cloward-Piven strategy.

At any rate, medical costs have skyrocketed primarily due to government intervention. Has anything gone up as much as healthcare costs?

Something must be done, but if Rs try to control it the MSM and libs everywhere will condemn it to fear monger the elderly. So...I suspect nothing will be done during Trump's time.

It should be remembered the Obama and Congress cut Social Security and the MSM and the Left said nothing. Most Americans do not know anything of this cut.

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

Agreed. The FDA and Big Pharma are colluding...which is nothing new as big government and big business collude on most things, which harms 99% of Americans. The MSM also colludes with Big Pharma...as they make millions off all those ads.

It is all very sad but typical of a nation controlled by a big unlimited government, run by corrupt elitist scumbags.

You mean MSNBC, all stations make money off those ads. Then people go to their doctor and say I want this.
Fox and CNN , all stations. Yes they are corrupt elitist scumbags. Insurance companies are as well.

And Obamacare made them all the more powerful and rich.

Good job.

Actually its called the ACA, and do you know anything about it, have you even been on Healthcare.gov site?

 

[Andylusion]

Agreed. Some say this is proof of the left's Cloward-Piven strategy.

At any rate, medical costs have skyrocketed primarily due to government intervention. Has anything gone up as much as healthcare costs?

Something must be done, but if Rs try to control it the MSM and libs everywhere will condemn it to fear monger the elderly. So...I suspect nothing will be done during Trump's time.

It should be remembered the Obama and Congress cut Social Security and the MSM and the Left said nothing. Most Americans do not know anything of this cut.

Due to insurances and drug ads on TV, they spend more on ads that they do R & D.

Agreed. The FDA and Big Pharma are colluding...which is nothing new as big government and big business collude on most things, which harms 99% of Americans. The MSM also colludes with Big Pharma...as they make millions off all those ads.

It is all very sad but typical of a nation controlled by a big unlimited government, run by corrupt elitist scumbags.

You mean MSNBC, all stations make money off those ads. Then people go to their doctor and say I want this.
Fox and CNN , all stations. Yes they are corrupt elitist scumbags. Insurance companies are as well.

And Obamacare made them all the more powerful and rich.

Good job.

Actually its called the ACA, and do you know anything about it, have you even been on Healthcare.gov site?

Yes, and the name is not accurate, and I do know nearly everything about it, and I have been on the web site.

 

[Andylusion]

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

11/11/16 08:00 AM

Throughout the Obama era, Ryan has pushed a radical budget plan that would effectively eliminate the Medicare system, phasing it out of existence and replacing it with a voucher system. Seniors, under the Speaker’s vision, would stop receiving guaranteed care under a popular and effective government-run program, and would instead receive vouchers that would help pay for coverage through private insurers.

After GOP wins, Paul Ryan puts Medicare in the crosshairs

Now Medicare, disabled and seniors who paid in for years. This is like a nightmare, really and this man is a multimillionaire and a RC, hard to believe he is a RC. Whoever voted for this sub human creature are sub human.

I believe Ryan's plan is the same as the basis for HMOs. When you sign up, you get an allotment (voucher?) of X dollars held by the insurer. Over the year, if you empty your bucket and still need care, you pay. Your doc also is restricted to keep your care costs within the assigned value, and if he/she signs a referral to another doc, the payment for the specialist comes out of your doc's allowance. So if you need a dermatologist or respiratory doc, your chances of staying within your allotment are pretty slim. Surgery coverage too has to be approved by the insurer, meaning that instead of a government agency running your healthcare, the insurer does it. If you are healthy with minimal needs this is a good deal. But I remember getting a call once from an HMO reminding a doc I worked with that heart transplants are considered experimental and therefor not covered. So if Medicare is more efficiently run than private insurers with much lower operating costs than HMOs that are more concerned with cost maintenance that patient care, what's the beef?

I am familiar with HMO's. Most people do go to their family dr and get referred to a specialist. An allotment? So lets see in health insurance you can reach the donut hole same as with scripts?

Pay , most seniors on SS live on a fixed income and can't even afford their meds. Lets not talk about disabled people. And yet a multi millionaire who has gov insurance paid by tax payers taxes get his HI paid for and a Cadillac plan as well.

Not all of us were born with a silver spoon. Us baby boomers worked our buts off and we were adults at the age of 26, not children. Ryan needs to go.

First off, Medicare is not run more efficiently. It's less efficient by far.

Second, Medicare only works right now, because private patients (you and me) are being charged a higher price. The main reason our health care costs are so high, is because we're paying for not only our own health care, but also paying for Medicare.

The doctor is charging you a higher price.... and you are paying the Medicare tax. So you are paying for medicare patients two different ways.

Third, Medicare is means tested last I checked. People with more money, pay higher premiums.

Fourth, if you are living on SS, then 1. you did a poor job saving 2. you should get help from your family.

Fifth, if you are waiting on some silver spoon rich person to give up his riches, so you can have free health care, you are going to be bitter and sick for the rest of your life. You need to plan for your own future. Not wait around on your butt for government to fix your life.

It's never happened before. Never happened anywhere in the world. And it won't happen in the future. If you buy the left-wing myth that some policy in government is going to fix your life, you will be a sad person when you die.

You might want to read up why Medicare got started. Putting your money in the market is not an assurance it will be there and with interest rates no one makes much in a bank savings plan. I am fully aware of how Medicare works, we pay FICA which is SS and Medicare our of our paychecks. Seniors and or disable either 65 or 2 years after becoming disabled get on Medicare which then charges a premium. Copays are 20% and there is a deductible for hosp (Part A) and medical (Part B), also one is not forced to take Part B. There will be a 10% penalty for not taking Part B and taking it later in life, why

because insurance is cheaper with the more people who have it. Look at it like group, the bigger the group the less one pays.

Also Part D which came into effect under Bush Jr. which is the script ins plan for those with Medicare. If one does not sign up for it, then there is also a penalty if one decides to later in life.

That is the beauty of the ACA, even healthy people need to get insurance, so its just not all the sick elderly people. This is not some kind of socialism, anymore that SS and Medicare is. Everyone pays what they can afford. One illness can put one in the poorhouse.

The problem is the gov, keep borrowing form SS.

This is one the universal problems with left-wing ideology. You are taking desires and wants, above facts.

It's called math. You can come up with a million reasons why Medicare is needed. And some of them may even be valid. None of that changes the fact that "math" doesn't care.

Right now, I could really use a new car. There are dozens of reasons, valid reasons, why I should have a new car. Better gas mileage. Fewer repairs. Less time in the repair bay missing work. Broke Air Conditioning, messed up shocks and struts. Fit all my kids. And my luggage. Blaw blaw blaw blaw.

The problem is, I don't have the money for it. I don't have the cash to buy a new car. I show up at the dealership with $2,000 in hand, and he's going to laugh at me. I can explain all the millions of reasons why I need a car, deserve the car, and have earned a car..... but if the money I have doesn't equal the cost of a car.... then I don't get a car.

Medicare is not sustainable.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2015 Trustees Report SS Medicare.pdf

According to numerous reports from various groups, and government agencies, including the Trustees of Medicare itself, we have a conservative estimate of $10 Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.

Now you can say all you want about how we need it, we want it, we should have it, and we deserve it and it's required and it's earned, and on and on and on.....

Fact is..... the math doesn't add up. We can't afford the system as it exists. It is not sustainable.

The only question is, do we destroy the entire country.... or reform medicare?

See, I've read up on Greece, and there were people who warned Greece, both from the outside, and inside Greece, that their health care and pension system was not sustainable. The math didn't work. They kept raising taxes, and still the math didn't work. They kept increasing the minimum wages and regulations. And still the math didn't work.

Over and over, the math didn't add up.

But instead of reforming and cutting health care and pensions.... they, like you, paraded their endless excuse of reasons why they paid into it, and so they earned it, and they deserved it, and the wanted it, and had to have it, and they needed it.

Now look at Greece. Companies moved out. Jobs are gone. People are burning wood, because they can't afford gas, and most of the hospitals are closed. Doctors have no medication, and have said (as quoted) "all I can do is tell them how they will die".

Math doesn't care about all your rationals. You either accept it, and change to fit the math, or you refuse and math will destroy your life.