A revolt is growing as more people refuse to pay back student loans

[jillian]

the WashintonCompost is telling people to IGNORE their obligations and just tell everyone who paid for theirs to.......... FUCK OFF.

what a disgusting paper and the REVOLT should be against THEM and people not putting money in their pockets for crap they put out

not what they said... .read with comprehension.

but when you charge banks almost no interest on loans.... and use students as a money generator because you insist on cutting taxes while waging unnecessary wars.... people are going to get cranky.

not that you'd relate to the whole student loan thing.

 

[jillian]

I don't have a link, but there's no doubt that my summer jobs back in the mid 70s involved construction labor and working as furniture mover. I could take home $600 a month after taxes with overtime. Living at home, that covered a good part of my housing and food during the school year, and I could work a part-time min wage service job at $2 an hour. Tuition was around $500 a year.

I just don't see how the math adds up today. Laborers get less than $15 an hour Back in the 70s, my dad would get me on with one of his customers, but even if today a kid would get a job, he's still only gonna be taking home around $1700 a month during the summer. Tuition alone in my home state is $9500 a year.

You can't address half the equation. The other half is that limitless government money is driving up the cost of education and unlimited access to it is letting people make poor choices. You borrow $80K and get a degree in sociology and you can't pay it back? No shit.

As a taxpayer, why is that on me now?

I have no idea what in my post you are responding to. I never borrowed a dime to get my BA. If anything, your post underscores the issue that our system of financing a college degree is focked up.

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Whatever... you're not listening. Like I said, I had to forgo the "college experience" and be a commuter, part-time student in order to get my education. I couldn't afford to go off to college, live in a dorm, etc.

But, I got my education... which was the goal.

It can, and is being done all over this country. You're being childish and close-minded.

wow. I really though he may have been an adult.

However, I can not recall an adult EVER using the term "good grades" while discussing requirements for college. GPA and community involvement....never "good grades"...unless they are telling a child "get good grades and you can become anything you want".

Wow.

He must be one of the "participation trophy" kids Adam Carolla warned about...

That's "SHE." Obviously you could use a better education and a class in reading comprehension. Unless of course, you are calling me a "he" to try to insult me because you have no argument and no statistics or links to back up any of your assertions . . . Typical of the loons around here.

Unless a poster informs the board members of details on their identity, each of us anonymous.
So spare us your faux outrage.

So tell me . . . since you people want to use "how it was when you went to college," what decade were you attending college? I notice you are ALL hesitant to provide that data.

It's irrelevant. It can be done, people do it all the time. Two people I work with just completed an MBA and another their bachelors... last year. All I hear from you is "can't, can't, can't, can't".

 

[Claudette]

Yeah, sure, lol, in an IDEAL world, your ideas would work.

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is

THAT is why we don't rely on charitable donations anymore. MOST people don't give a shit about other people. That's a fact.

The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

How many college educated unemployed do we need??

Hey. You want them all to have a free education then whip out your wallet. Your Debit Card and your checkbook. Pay away. I'm sure they will pay you back.

Brainless.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is



The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

How many college educated unemployed do we need??

Hey. You want them all to have a free education then whip out your wallet. Your Debit Card and your checkbook. Pay away. I'm sure they will pay you back.

Brainless.

These nitwits want you and me to pay for some kid to spend 8 years getting a PhD in Druid Philosophy... let him pay for that stupid shit.

 

[Claudette]

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is



The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

How many college educated unemployed do we need??

Hey. You want them all to have a free education then whip out your wallet. Your Debit Card and your checkbook. Pay away. I'm sure they will pay you back.

Brainless.

Another big spender using everyone elses money. Figures.

 

[kaz]

You can't address half the equation. The other half is that limitless government money is driving up the cost of education and unlimited access to it is letting people make poor choices. You borrow $80K and get a degree in sociology and you can't pay it back? No shit.

As a taxpayer, why is that on me now?

I have no idea what in my post you are responding to. I never borrowed a dime to get my BA. If anything, your post underscores the issue that our system of financing a college degree is focked up.

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

I don't give a shit to defend what right wingers say, so why don't you argue with them?

 

[bendog]

You can't address half the equation. The other half is that limitless government money is driving up the cost of education and unlimited access to it is letting people make poor choices. You borrow $80K and get a degree in sociology and you can't pay it back? No shit.

As a taxpayer, why is that on me now?

I have no idea what in my post you are responding to. I never borrowed a dime to get my BA. If anything, your post underscores the issue that our system of financing a college degree is focked up.

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

 

[kaz]

I have no idea what in my post you are responding to. I never borrowed a dime to get my BA. If anything, your post underscores the issue that our system of financing a college degree is focked up.

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

 

[bendog]

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

You continue under the misapprehension that I believe student loans are a good thing. What I do believe is that college should be accessible and affordable, but that students should have some "stake" in getting there, and getting out. Generally, I'd say a kid shouldn't carry more than 20K in debt.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

You continue under the misapprehension that I believe student loans are a good thing. What I do believe is that college should be accessible and affordable, but that students should have some "stake" in getting there, and getting out. Generally, I'd say a kid shouldn't carry more than 20K in debt.

I totally agree... a loan I a loan. And a loan for "training" or "education" is no different. If you get trained in something that is not I demand, don't cry when you can't find a job in your field. Should have thought that through.

At t he same time, they shouldn't be continually lent more money.

 

[mikegriffith1]

It is no exaggeration to say that the liberals on this board are modern-day Jacobins--lawless, godless, dismissive of tradition, and irresponsible.

When I was a kid--which was not all that long ago--no one I knew would ever dream of arguing that college students should not have to repay their student loans, much less that it would be "awesome" if they refused to pay them back.

When enough people with that attitude become the majority or a decisive minority, societies start to collapse.

 

[kaz]

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

You continue under the misapprehension that I believe student loans are a good thing. What I do believe is that college should be accessible and affordable, but that students should have some "stake" in getting there, and getting out. Generally, I'd say a kid shouldn't carry more than 20K in debt.

You said college is more expensive than before and people can't pay as much as before by working. I said how government has been inflating the cost of colleges for decades. You asked what that had to do with what you said that college is relatively more expensive than before

 

[kaz]

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

You continue under the misapprehension that I believe student loans are a good thing. What I do believe is that college should be accessible and affordable, but that students should have some "stake" in getting there, and getting out. Generally, I'd say a kid shouldn't carry more than 20K in debt.

I totally agree... a loan I a loan. And a loan for "training" or "education" is no different. If you get trained in something that is not I demand, don't cry when you can't find a job in your field. Should have thought that through.

At t he same time, they shouldn't be continually lent more money.

The attitude that government should invest in us rather than our investing in ourselves is a big chunk of why we can't get out of this economic funk

 

[ChrisL]

I have no idea what in my post you are responding to. I never borrowed a dime to get my BA. If anything, your post underscores the issue that our system of financing a college degree is focked up.

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

They already do that. You are not allowed to borrow over a certain amount and you do have to maintain a certain grades. That is how it works. I don't know why you would listen to these people that obviously have no idea what they are talking about. Not to mention are rude and kind of jerks. Don't listen to them.

Who Gets Aid Federal Student Aid

 

[ChrisL]

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

You continue under the misapprehension that I believe student loans are a good thing. What I do believe is that college should be accessible and affordable, but that students should have some "stake" in getting there, and getting out. Generally, I'd say a kid shouldn't carry more than 20K in debt.

You said college is more expensive than before and people can't pay as much as before by working. I said how government has been inflating the cost of colleges for decades. You asked what that had to do with what you said that college is relatively more expensive than before

Have you provided any links to back up your assertions yet? There are a LOT of new posts here, and I don't have the time to go through them all. Please requote or direct me to where you have provided any evidence to back your assertions. Thank you.

 

[ChrisL]

Seriously? You don't know what I am talking about? Seriously? You don't understand when you make the point that you used to be able to earn comparatively more money to pay for more of your degree part time, and I said government pumping cheap money into the system is driving up the cost of education, you don't know what that has to do with your point. Seriously? Geez, I can't help you. I'd sue for your money back though

I'm happy for you having this discussion with yourself. But Chris's posts were comparing education access in decades past to today. I'm happy that you agree with us that today's fcoked up. Carry on ... with whatever the hell you're ranting about.

You have a BA? Again, I'd get your money back. Let's walk through this slower. Let's see if you can get a simple point, it's becoming a challenge now.

Yes, decades ago, relative to wages college was cheaper. I worked part time and paid for most of my degree, and I went to the University of Maryland, which is right on the border of DC, not exactly Podunk college, and I did it by working summers, nights, winter break, spring break, etc.

Since then, government took over funding educations and pumps subsidized loans into the system. You apply, you get it. There is no determination of where you are going and what you are studying and if you are likely to even be able to pay it back if you want to. People owe $100K and have a degree in sociology which pays maybe $30K a year, less than my first job in ... 1988.

The cost of education has while government pumped in endless subsidized loans all that time continued to spiral up far out pacing inflation. Those decades the government kept pumping in cheap money people kept spending and spending.

Now it's a lot harder to pay significant portions of your degree only working part time because relative to income college costs more, you can earn a lower percent.

Seriously, you aren't seeing the relation between government cheap money and the difference between the 80s and today? A BA can't follow simple numerical reasoning?

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

And do tell, how is it "broke?"

 

[ChrisL]

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

How many college educated unemployed do we need??

Hey. You want them all to have a free education then whip out your wallet. Your Debit Card and your checkbook. Pay away. I'm sure they will pay you back.

Brainless.

Another big spender using everyone elses money. Figures.

Sorry, but once your tax money is put into the pool, so to speak, it no longer belongs to you. All of that money that we invest in foreign aid could easily pay for college education. How do you think they do it in other countries and why are you against it? Please explain.

 

[bendog]

this oft repeated BS about government being the reason for the high cost of college may be one of the more ignorant things made up by rightwingers.

Whether it is, or whether it isn't, false may not be that material. Kaz and I actually agree that it's not a good thing for kids to be borrowing so much money, unless they're in medical school or something, and even then it's certainly not optimal, because one reason docs here make so much more than in say .... France, is that they have to pay off the loans.

I'd also agree with Kaz that students should not be allowed to borrow above a certain amount, and that any loans in a given year require the student to show he/she completed x number of hours with x gpa.

That's better than what Chris and Jillian want, but don't you grasp the housing bubble we just went through where cheap, unaccountable limitless government money brought down the housing sector? It was exactly the same thing. When you borrow money in the free market, they want to know if you can pay it back. When you borrow government money, you borrow on arbitrary rules that government creates and hav nothing to do with your inability to pay it back.

Your solution is way, way lower than that accountability. And when students borrow and pump it into the schools, that removes the school's incentive to teach students who can pay back loans, they teach students to borrow and spend as much government money as you can.

You get what you incent, and you are incenting what we have now, a broke system, broke in more ways that one.

Again, do you understand the housing meltdown and grasp government is already doing the exact same thing here?

You continue under the misapprehension that I believe student loans are a good thing. What I do believe is that college should be accessible and affordable, but that students should have some "stake" in getting there, and getting out. Generally, I'd say a kid shouldn't carry more than 20K in debt.

I totally agree... a loan I a loan. And a loan for "training" or "education" is no different. If you get trained in something that is not I demand, don't cry when you can't find a job in your field. Should have thought that through.

At t he same time, they shouldn't be continually lent more money.

The attitude that government should invest in us rather than our investing in ourselves is a big chunk of why we can't get out of this economic funk

Yet, the GI bill was the single largest factor in creating the post-WWII middle class. So, the notion that the govt should not invest in training workers is .... patently false, and not worth even commenting upon.

Further, your unswerving belief in the Bennett hypothesis is simply not supported by evidence. The data is mixed. But there is support for finding that if tax aid to universities increases, tuition decreases.

Does financial aid make college more expensive - Ideas - The Boston Globe

But any institution that has a lot of brick and cement and grass has inordinate amounts of inflation. And, if there is any consensus it is basically that not for profit colleges will (and must) consume as much revenue as they have. Further colleges are no different from any other organization. If you give workers a raise or more benefits in year X, you have that same expense plus something in year Xplus1.

The Tuition is Too Damn High Part VII Is government aid actually making college more expensive - The Washington Post

I think it's fair to sum up that to control the cost of education, we have to put some dollar cap on how much a college can spend to educate each student.

 

[ChrisL]

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

How many college educated unemployed do we need??

Hey. You want them all to have a free education then whip out your wallet. Your Debit Card and your checkbook. Pay away. I'm sure they will pay you back.

Brainless.

These nitwits want you and me to pay for some kid to spend 8 years getting a PhD in Druid Philosophy... let him pay for that stupid shit.

Oh, another intelligent response from you. Lol. I would be paying as would all of us, through our tax money. Get it yet? Sorry but your tax money does NOT belong to you. It belongs to all of us and instead of it going overseas to help THOSE kids get an education, it should remain here to help OUR kids. Now, why would you be against that. Do you have a coherent reply or just "I don't like it and WAAAAA."