A return to the "God is evil." problem

[amrchaos]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbS7fHuiHbE[/ame]


I am reposting the video in order to help clarify the position.


If we are to take the boys model of good and evil as truth, we can still conclude that god is evil.

Under the boys model, evil exist if god is not present, good exist if god is present. Now the here is a question for you:Who or what controls god?


Apparently, god controls god. Therefore when god excuses himself from an object or situation, god INTENDS for evil to exist in that object or situation. Considering what is implied in the statement "that God is evil" means that god posses evil intentions or creates evil through his own actions, the statement can still be considered true under the boys model.

Are there any counter-arguement to this claim? Please post.

 

[JBeukema]

If darkness doesn't exist, you can't say darkness is anything, for you admit that it either does or can exist when you define it as a state which can, in fact, be.

Personally, I have trouble believing genocide is a good thing, so Hitler will never be a good person in my book. Nor will anyone else who orders genocide, nor anyone credited with putting Hitler in power so that he could do what he did with foreknowledge and the intent that it would occur.

 

[Intense]

Darkness is merely a void resulting from the absence of Light.

Cold is merely a void resulting from the absence of Heat.

Evil is merely a void resulting from the absence of God's presence, or his Ambassador, Conscience.

Einstein was pretty cool, huh. Not in total agreement, but a nice perspective.

 

[Douger]

If darkness doesn't exist, you can't say darkness is anything, for you admit that it either does or can exist when you define it as a state which can, in fact, be.

Personally, I have trouble believing genocide is a good thing, so Hitler will never be a good person in my book. Nor will anyone else who orders genocide, nor anyone credited with putting Hitler in power so that he could do what he did with foreknowledge and the intent that it would occur.

Same as the people who put the Bush regime and the congress where they are.
Council for a new American Century crowd, just as planned.
You got what you voted for.

Barry is just trying not to get Kennedy'd.
His campaign promises got sidelined when the real bosses had their "little talk' with him after inauguration.
" Barry, go and golf, we have everything under control.

 

[JBeukema]

Darkness is merely a void resulting from the absence of Light.

Cold is merely a void resulting from the absence of Heat.

Evil is merely a void resulting from the absence of God's presence, or his Ambassador, Conscience.

Einstein was pretty cool, huh. Not in total agreement, but a nice perspective.

1) Einstein didn't say it

2) Evil is the lack of God telling you to tear open pregnant women, kill every man, woman, and male child, and keep prepubescent virgin girls for sex slaves? In that case,I wish there were more evil in the world.

 

[JBeukema]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IABptlAhyJw[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWHzB6H718w[/ame]

I'll take Lucifer, thank you. No wonder 1/3 of the angels rebelled against Adolf Pol Pot YHWH

 

[Intense]

Darkness is merely a void resulting from the absence of Light.

Cold is merely a void resulting from the absence of Heat.

Evil is merely a void resulting from the absence of God's presence, or his Ambassador, Conscience.

Einstein was pretty cool, huh. Not in total agreement, but a nice perspective.

1) Einstein didn't say it

2) Evil is the lack of God telling you to tear open pregnant women, kill every man, woman, and male child, and keep prepubescent virgin girls for sex slaves? In that case,I wish there were more evil in the world.

1) Einstein didn't say it

Sorry I thought the kid was a representation of Einstein.

2) Evil is the lack of God telling you to tear open pregnant women, kill every man, woman, and male child, and keep prepubescent virgin girls for sex slaves? In that case,I wish there were more evil in the world.

Here we need to disagree on premise. You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name. I take Scripture very seriously, and do see it inspired, though sometimes, from a different perspective actually bear witness against the Prophets and Scribes themselves. Claiming that God instructed you to Murder, in itself does not justify that claim, or make it true, factor in Mental Illness, Lust for Power, Hatred, and so many other factors, us being Human, and at the least, I would ask you to consider distinguishing God from the claims made about him. Here is another example 3000 murdered for Idolatry :


Exodus 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?



Exodus 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

32:29 For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves today to the LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.

32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

http://www.holybible.com/resources/KJV_DFND/index.php?Book=67&mode=4&BookTitle=Exodus&Chapter=32


Where before Moses gave instruction for the Levites to slay 3000 Brethren, was there any mention of killing? Why was Aaron exempt? It is easy to justify the actions of our Hero's and Leaders. I would bet that if there was a legitimate reason why Moses would not be allowed to enter the promised land, it would be more related to this action than kicking a rock in anger and frustration. But that's me.

 

[JBeukema]

You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

 

[Intense]

You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

I don't blame God for what people claim God told them to do. Do you need me to translate that?

Just because you or I make a claim, that doesn't make it true. My position is that people get misled and write it down, others accept without question.

I fault Hitler and Goebbels.

 

[Intense]

"He who made us would have been a pitiful bungler, if he had made the rules of our moral conduct a matter of science. For one man of science, there are thousands who are not. What would have become of them? Man was destined for society. His morality, therefore, was to be formed to this object. He was endowed with a sense of right and wrong merely relative to this. This sense is as much a part of his nature, as the sense of hearing, seeing, feeling; it is the true foundation of morality... The moral sense, or conscience, is as much a part of man as his leg or arm. It is given to all human beings in a stronger or weaker degree, as force of members is given them in a greater or less degree. It may be strengthened by exercise, as may any particular limb of the body. This sense is submitted indeed in some degree to the guidance of reason; but it is a small stock which is required for this: even a less one than what we call Common sense. State a moral case to a ploughman and a professor. The former will decide it as well, and often better than the latter, because he has not been led astray by artificial rules." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1787. ME 6:257, Papers 12:15
Jefferson on Politics & Government: Moral Principles

 

[JBeukema]

You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

I don't blame God for what people claim God told them to do. Do you need me to translate that?

So you simply declare anything you don't like in the bible to not be actually given by God? You pick and choose what must be valid according to what you deem acceptable?

Just because you or I make a claim, that doesn't make it true. My position is that people get misled and write it down, others accept without question.

Then nothing at all in the Bible can be relied upon at all. If the text is fallible, then it cannot be counted on for anything that cannot be independently verified- including all of jesus' miracles (after all, noone else said anything about all those zombies who were walking about after he arose)

 

[Wingsofwind]

I would give an example here to show how God is NOT evil, however I do not have the time ATM.

I will, however, post a reply as another theread when I get back, I will be gone for three days and by then this thread will be so long some will not bother to read.

For some info on what I will be talking about, please read up about the potter and the clay in Romans 9.

 

[Intense]

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

I don't blame God for what people claim God told them to do. Do you need me to translate that?

So you simply declare anything you don't like in the bible to not be actually given by God? You pick and choose what must be valid according to what you deem acceptable?

Just because you or I make a claim, that doesn't make it true. My position is that people get misled and write it down, others accept without question.

Then nothing at all in the Bible can be relied upon at all. If the text is fallible, then it cannot be counted on for anything that cannot be independently verified- including all of jesus' miracles (after all, noone else said anything about all those zombies who were walking about after he arose)

You are free to determine for yourself, as are Each of us JB. No expectations. Either you can reject in part or in entirety, is is your decision to make for yourself.

Personally I find Much Heart and Soul in Scripture. Where I find Heart and Soul, I find Confirmation, and direction, be it in a Bible or on a message board. My Faith is in God, not words, not preconceived notion as to what God is or isn't, even my own.

 

[AmericanFirst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbS7fHuiHbE


I am reposting the video in order to help clarify the position.


If we are to take the boys model of good and evil as truth, we can still conclude that god is evil.

Under the boys model, evil exist if god is not present, good exist if god is present. Now the here is a question for you:Who or what controls god?


Apparently, god controls god. Therefore when god excuses himself from an object or situation, god INTENDS for evil to exist in that object or situation. Considering what is implied in the statement "that God is evil" means that god posses evil intentions or creates evil through his own actions, the statement can still be considered true under the boys model.

Are there any counter-arguement to this claim? Please post.

No we cannot!! God created everything good. Evil is not just the absence of good. Satan is the father of all evil. He tempted Eve in the garden of eden, Adam followed Eve and the fall of man took place. Book of Genesis.

 

[jillian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbS7fHuiHbE


I am reposting the video in order to help clarify the position.


If we are to take the boys model of good and evil as truth, we can still conclude that god is evil.

Under the boys model, evil exist if god is not present, good exist if god is present. Now the here is a question for you:Who or what controls god?


Apparently, god controls god. Therefore when god excuses himself from an object or situation, god INTENDS for evil to exist in that object or situation. Considering what is implied in the statement "that God is evil" means that god posses evil intentions or creates evil through his own actions, the statement can still be considered true under the boys model.

Are there any counter-arguement to this claim? Please post.

No we cannot!! God created everything good. Evil is not just the absence of good. Satan is the father of all evil. He tempted Eve in the garden of eden, Adam followed Eve and the fall of man took place. Book of Genesis.

 

[rikules]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbS7fHuiHbE


I am reposting the video in order to help clarify the position.


If we are to take the boys model of good and evil as truth, we can still conclude that god is evil.

Under the boys model, evil exist if god is not present, good exist if god is present. Now the here is a question for you:Who or what controls god?


Apparently, god controls god. Therefore when god excuses himself from an object or situation, god INTENDS for evil to exist in that object or situation. Considering what is implied in the statement "that God is evil" means that god posses evil intentions or creates evil through his own actions, the statement can still be considered true under the boys model.

Are there any counter-arguement to this claim? Please post.

No we cannot!! God created everything good. Evil is not just the absence of good. Satan is the father of all evil. He tempted Eve in the garden of eden, Adam followed Eve and the fall of man took place. Book of Genesis.

"No we cannot!! God created everything good. Evil is not just the absence of good. Satan is the father of all evil."


are you saying that god did NOT create satan?

are you saying that god is not powerful enough to control satan?

are you saying that god is not powerful enough to stop evil?

in the 1930's and early 1940's there were numerous attempts to assassinate hitler...

ALL of them FAILED! (thanks be to god)

why did god help keep hitler alive?

is god a nazi?

 

[AmericanFirst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IABptlAhyJw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWHzB6H718w

I'll take Lucifer, thank you. No wonder 1/3 of the angels rebelled against Adolf Pol Pot YHWH

These guys are idiots. It is funny how so called atheists rail against God and in doing so talk like he existed.

 

[AmericanFirst]

You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

You can't blame God. God is God. Man has fallen. God gave man free will, man either chooses to follow God or not.

 

[rikules]

You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

You can't blame God. God is God. Man has fallen. God gave man free will, man either chooses to follow God or not.

I choose NOT to follow an irrational, illogical, mean spirited jerk who uses FEAR to force people to bow to him

 

[rikules]

You may believe God instructed the Prophets of Old to do the things claimed justified by him in the Scriptures., that is your Right. I personally don't blame God for the bizarre shit we do, sometimes even in his name

You don't blame god for what he tells people to do?

Do you fault Hitler or Goebbels?

You can't blame God. God is God. Man has fallen. God gave man free will, man either chooses to follow God or not.

btw...

can I assume that your handle...AmericanFirst
is incorrect?

aren't you actually....ChristianFirst and American SECOND?

isn't your first loyalty to your god and NOT to your country?